I have now watched the Panorama programme, The Battle For British Islam, and I will admit to having been astonished. The programme could have been written by this site and is an utter condemnation of the BBC’s approach to Islam and how they report it day in day out….most notably over the last few days.
There are many points to note…one that Muslims who don’t toe the conservative Muslim line face one of those infamous ‘backlashes’, a serious and intemperate backlash, but from other Muslims…..on the making of a music video based on the song ‘Happy’ the makers were told that they are the perpetrators of a bad PR stunt to promote integration…which of course they were really…the intention behind it was quite obvious. What Panorama didn’t mention was that similar videos from the same production team were made around the world….well intentioned propaganda organised by someone intent on persuading non-Muslims that Muslims are carefree and fun.
That aside we get to the really serious stuff….we are told that the extreme Islamic views, once on the fringe (allegedly), are now becoming mainstream. Panorama even points the finger at the MCB which it points out thought that extremist views were merely ‘conservative Islam’ in action.
We heard that the MCB would label any criticism of that conservative narrative as Islamophobic…which one Muslim said she found ‘very troubling’.
Then we had various voices of ‘conservative Islam’ highlighted…..one from the Muslim Association of Britain, which is, unmentioned by Panorama, part of the Muslim Brotherhood (and has close ties to the SNP). He had no problem with killing apostates or any other Islamically sanctioned punishment however draconian.
We also heard that they would use democracy in order to undermine democracy and forge a path for theocracy to be imposed. Which is an echo of the famous comment by Turkey’s islamist leader Recep Erdogan who said that democracy was a bus that he would ride until he got to his destination….an Islamic state.
Later we got to the real meat of the matter…the Muslim grievance industry…the grievance narrative that Muslims are oppressed by the West and foreign policy is anti-Muslim.
This grievance narrative we were told, again by a Muslim, was false and very unhelpful. It feeds into the narrative of those who want to create a them and us society.
It is dangerous and dishonest to blame foreign policy!
The narrative of Muslims under siege, Muslims oppressed, of Islamophobia demonising Muslims was rubbished as a cause of radicalisation.
And the problem is not foreign policy but a puritanical Islam.
The programme ends on a question….will events in France be the trigger for some soul searching amongst Muslims leading to reform?
The last comment didn’t sound too hopeful and gave the probability that such a conclusion would only come at the cost of much bloodshed and over the course of many years, decades, hundreds of years possibly.
All very powerful and iconoclastic….it totally undermines the BBC’s own ‘mainstream’ narrative of the Muslim grievance industry, Islamophobia and the effect of foreign policy as the cause of radicalisation…..The real problem is ‘puritanical Islam’.
Good luck with sorting that out….then again look what Cameron did to the ‘nasty party’……completely emasculated it in no time.
So the question now is what will the BBC do next…will we see a counter narrative to that grievance industry and tackle Islamic extremism or will the BBC dodge that and resume its lazy, convenient narrative of oppression and foreign policy?
If this marks a long overdue re-appraisal by the BBC and a recognition at last that there really is a problem within Islam, it’s still a pity that quite so many people had to be killed, injured, raped, tortured, kidnapped, robbed and persecuted by Islamists before the BBC had a re-think.
One would sincerely hope so, but as yet it’s just the single swallow, not enough to make a summer.
It was an astonishing programme. They actually allowed the truth to be shown on the BBC for a frikken change, but credit where it is due.
Who knows? Perhaps the attack on Charlie Hebdo made the BBC finally realise that they could be attacked too. It must have terrified them. Well something had to move them to act.
The mass rapes of children across the country, honour killings, homophobic attacks increasing massively and town and city suburbs being overtaken and turned into no-go areas to the native Brits was not enough to get the BBC to see sense, but attacking and killing media personell? All of a sudden it is personal.
The next step is to take a much tougher line with those non-violent extremists who wish to have no part in belonging to a free, open and democratic Britain. KICK THEM OUT! If they do not want to live in a country which is free, open and democratic, and would feel more at home in an Islamic theocracy, fine, there are over 30 different countries they can choose from. They should go and live in one of those, instead of trying to impose their will for a monocultural dictatorship under Sharia, upon the rest of us.
As for the British Muslims in that programme? Those “happy Muslims” If they are really like that? Then if all British Muslims were like that, then there would be NO problem in the UK with Islam.
I do fear though, that the “British Muslim” is just a front, a Taqiyya distraction to lull non-Muslims into a false sense of security. I know what Taqiyya means.
Either way, the solution to Islamic Extremism in the UK is for the Muslim community to stop issuing weasel words of Taqiyya condemnation over Islamic terrorism. They must stop uttering empty platitudes, whilst continuing to harbour these violent and non-violent extremists in their midst. Stop teaching and radicalising children and prisoners. Stop demanding special treatment, stop demanding that you not be subject to some British Laws and accept in Britain, you abide by British law.
The police and CPS must STOP ignoring crimes if they are committed by Muslims. Stop treating Muslims as a special case and APPLY and UPHOLD the law!
A march in Paris and a documentary are not enough. It is time to take action. Integrate and be welcomed or GET OUT!
Let’s not forget that blasphemy laws were abolished only a few years ago right here in the UK! (2008)
The problem is RELIGION!
It’s no use pointing fingers at people of ‘other faiths’ when you cannot justify your own faith and how you believe your God is real when their god is false.
They could be right.
But I’m not in the same boat. All religion is fantasy. Muslim extremists are dangerous.
Take a look in the mirror. You might not have a gun, and you might not even think about killing other people, but you need to ask questions about your belief in the baby Jesus and the Holy Spirit. How will you defend those fictitious characters if Muslims take over the world on the basis that their fictitious characters are MORE REAL than yours?
If all ‘moderate’ religionists could abandon their silly beliefs, the extremists would be exposed like a sore thumb and we could eradicate the complete idiocy of fairytale wishful thinking.
Percy: That’s just so sad. There’s no problem with religions that bring comfort to their adherents and encourage them to help the sick, poor and afflicted. Leave those good people alone and concentrate your criticism on the religions that bring intolerance death and pain on those who don’t SUBMIT.
Can you tell me which religions you’re talking about? Are you saying Christians bring comfort to the sick and the poor and Muslims don’t? Or is it the other way around?
Or are Jews the best at giving wads of cash to the poor?
I am at a complete loss. Please elaborate.
In many cases they are poor , sick , and afflicted BECAUSE of religion not despite it ,religion has kept people in ignorance and poverty for centuries !
Percy, even if I agreed with your sentiment, which I don’t, what you say is off topic and anyway it isn’t going to happen.
I have no concerns about the weird views held by New Agers, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, atheists, pagans, Scientologists, agnostics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or even Satanists that match my concern over the views held by some Muslims.
The programme was about the real problem within Islam.
“I have no concerns about the weird views held by…”
Please elaborate on your assertion that they are ‘weird’ views. You have absolutely no authority over anyone else when it comes to personal beliefs unless you can demonstrate tangibly that your belief is true.
My comment was not off topic. I was simply opening up another, rarely discussed, branch of debate that lays bare the self-righteous of us who judge our own immorality against those who are truly immoral. (At least I’m not as nasty as them!)
Therefore, I am a moral being.
Crap!
Does it bother me if someone believes there was a talking donkey which spoke to a prophet in the bible? No
Does it bother me if someone believes in reincarnation? No
Does it bother me if someone wants to wear a cross, skullcap, skull & crossbones, hijab or turban to work? No
Does it bother me if someone is part of a group which believes in slaughtering apostates, non-muslims, cartoonists, school children, gays, adulterers, beer sellers, magicians, smokers and people wearing shorts or skimpy clothing, enslaving women ‘captives’, videoing the beheading of aid workers and journalists, and using young children as suicide bombers? Hell yes it bothers me.
If you must indulge in this silly, trendy relativism, I suggest you choose an argument which is at least partly supportable.
Yours isn’t.
Maybe these comments went a bit off topic. But religion is the problem, just that some religions at certain times are more of a problem than others.
A good starting point to try to promote integration and counter radical views would be for the Government to ban ALL faith schools rather than promote and fund them.
I agree that some religions at certain times are more of a problem than others. In the case of the Catholic/Protestant thing, it certainly applies to some areas far more than others. However, I don’t see why good, harmless religious schools should be banned because the Government doesn’t have the courage to admit where the problem really lies.
Where the problem is deeply embedded, I doubt if a ban would make any difference. In parts of Bradford, non religious schools are effectively Muslim schools in any case. Too late, as usual.
European Christianity ceased to be a big problem circa the Enlightenment and its aftermath, following which the literal, historical truth of the Bible has been blown to bits by scholarship. This seems to have put the lid on people taking the bonkers bits and using them as a basis to inflict extreme violence on non believers, heretics and blasphemers. Christians still have their faith, but a faith which frequently gives them a happiness, peace, niceness and motivation to go good works for the benefit of the wider population which they wouldn’t have on a rational assessment of their material circumstances. Honestly, if I could only summon it up I’d love a bit of that. I don’t think Islam is going to get to the same place without it’s scripture and theology being similarly subject to academic scrutiny and beaten up – it won’t happen in Islamic countries but it could come out of the West if people were brave enough, which would surely help us all out.
now, what i am waiting for now is that idiot david cameron to watch that panorama documentary and stand up and say islam is not as much a religion of peace than i thought,well hell,old cameron stuck his snout into this fake row about steve emersons near accurate portrayal of birmingham yesterday and insulting him just to get the muslim vote,what a hypocrite you are david cameron ranting on about the virtues of free speech and now he wants to ban steve emerson from coming to the uk,total hypocrisy on camerons part,anyway,anybody seen any hashtags yet condemming this islamic extremism shown on panorama the same way these idiots attacked steve emerson,yes complete silence from the whackdog leftist morons as usual.
You raise a good point there. Panorama spoke the truth, where is the liberal progressive lefty outrage? Had that been, …say… Nigel Farage who presented that programme, the left would have been in melt-down.
Well this is what Nigel Farage said about the subject …
http://www.ukip.org/words_are_not_enough_farage_urges_european_leaders_to_act
The programme is currently #13 in popularity on the BBC iplayer, as well as showing on the home page.
Good. I sincerely hope that it really and genuinely opens the eyes of many ignorant, nieve liberal progressive lefties who believe that Islam really IS the religion of peace.
Islam is the religion of peace and to prove it I list below all the Muslim countries which espouse peace and love :-
.
,
,
Err !!!!!
Now #5 in popularity
only saw a small part of the show but it did have some genuine decent muslims on there and not the ones like medhi Hassan or whatever he is called who is a bitter and twisted individual who calls us all cattle.
More needs to be done to help the decent muslims who want to fight against the total nutters but that doesn’t involves burying heads in the sand and from what it sounds like the show did a good job for a change
I have been privileged to live amongst and work with many wonderful folk around the world, who often I found out were Muslim only in the course of engagement down the line. It was a part of their lives for sure, but not how they were defined or defined themselves. Funny, generous, genuine.
I am also wondering why it is that the media, and the BBC especially, have kept up a steady diet of ‘representatives’ like Mo, Mehdi, etc, who at best are ‘leaders’ of a small, and hardly inclusive community of gobby bigots.
Maybe the BBC should look to who it invites on, or allows to push to the head of the vox pop queue, as responsible for much division that has been created.
Infiltration by sympathetic activists in their own ranks, devotion to salary-boosting ratings, or a mixture of both, the BBC is very much part of what has become a problem.
If this one programme is an attempt at recognizing it, then fair play.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b050nj0z
Worth the watch. Struck by a few things.
Beyond a raft of clearly incompatible statements there was the ‘community spokesleader/whatever’ (13.00, 16.00) who was cherry picking demcracy he liked and wished to use, and irony free dismissing the bits he doesn’t. Non violence in deed vs. violence in advocacy. Cake and eat it. I am not sure being only in favour of discriminating attacks on civilians quite excuses this.
It was of course followed by Dave the Brave marching to defend the right to freedom of expression. Uh-huh. especially the 4 million he and others headed were actually kept a nice distance back and the ‘crowd’ carefully shot to look like the actual populace connected to the elite group. They were not. Sadly Ms. May was not keen to chip in on who she has or wanted to ban. Our chum again (at 16.30) was worried about Dave and Theresa governing views in an undemocratic way… preventing potential offence. Sure Robert Spencer & Pam Gellar may agree, albeit not on these shores. Not asked anyway. Gaps in the narrative. They will get filled.
Appreciated the flat statement (20.50) that ‘It is dishonest and dangerous to blame foreign policy’. Tim… got that?
British Muslim tv looked cute… but staff giving the CEO ‘trouble’ for a collection union jack tat that needed putting away seemed worth clarifying. Why?
Final question. It was said at the conclusion (by one of some admirable muslim spokespersons sadly seldom heard and brave enough to stand up above a dodgy parapet) the violent have greatest resource and/or access to the media.
I’d ask the BBC, other than this programme’s small, 30′ tardy attempt at balance, why? Why have the men in black been until now handed on demand such an easy route to the broadcast power of the BBC or, worse, sought out to be offered it?
There are other voices clearly. Why has the BBC (and so many others), opted so often for the dark path?
But I forget, the BBC asks questions and holds the powerful to account. It doesn’t like being asked and doesn’t see why it too should be so held.
This programme is a welcome change, but a drop vs. the majority of what comes out, and with CECUTT riding shotgun, this majority will not change much even when spotlights get justifiably held up.
If John WARE on ‘Panorama’ can see the severe problems inside Islam, why can’t ‘Newsnight’?
Good programme but the timing of its broadcast is one hell of a coincidence. I hope I’m wrong and that this is an indication of a new approach by the BBC, time will tell.
Its just a suggestion. But can anyone here feel the same sense as me, and smell a split in the ranks at the bbc?
And just maybe the recent attacks in paris might have been the tipping point for some.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
I’d doubt if there’s a ‘split’; maybe just a few mavericks. There have always been a few. Think of Rod Liddle; with the insolent attitude and unruly hair, the Beeb assumed he was the full-on leftie clone. Then he demonstrated a capacity to think for himself. That would never do!
As long as the political establishment is wedded to multiculturalism, it’s hard to see meaningful change. Our CONSERVATIVE Prime Minister’s main purpose seems to be delivering sound bites including the phrase ‘The Religion Of Peace’. He’ll not be pushing the BBC for real change, no matter how much he protests otherwise.
John Ware has always been an independent guy. So there is nothing really new in his approach. But he remains out of step with the broad mass of Beeboids – he thinks for himself rather than promoting the BBC groupthink.
I do not believe there is any prospect whatever of the BBC reforming itself. It is far too comfortable wallowing in our money.
I don’t think there will be much of a change. The Trotskyite left which informs the BBC is still supporting conservative Islam, as it is most hostile to the capitalist west. Look at the left blogs, the SWP, UAF and see them denouncing any criticism of Islam.
It was an excellent documentary, but it has to be said that there were no great revelations, it merely covered the issues that have been given widespread coverage in other media outlets, especially channel 4 who have made several similar documentaries going back years (was it “undercover Mosque” that the police tried to prosecute Channel 4 for?).
The truly astonishing thing is that it was shown on the BBC at all.
I think that there must be an internal struggle going on in the BBC as to whether or not to tell the truth about the problems , I would say threat , of Islam to the UK and Europe.Since the Paris terror murders I have seen Andrew Neil, Dimbelbore and now Panorama, all straying well off the usual BBC dishonest line on Islamic terror and the clash of Islamic and Western values. Of course the balance of BBC output is still overwhelmingly pro Muslim and its all our own fault distortions and lies, but perhaps a few folks are beginning to show dissent and want to tell the truth.
That Andrew Neil should be amongst those few who are standing up for freedom of speech is not a surprise, but Dimbleby isn’t usually leading any charges and Panorama is never anything but a leftist propaganda programme. Let us hope we begin to hear the truth more often from the BBC, on this issue of critical concern at least.
As George Orwell said ‘ in times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act’.
One swallow doesn’t make a summer…. but still… Dimbleby’s ‘I would be failing in my duty…’ moment was a bit of a jaw-dropper.
For anyone who hasn’t seen it:
For readers wihout access to BBC TV directly, the BBC ‘Panorama’ programme is available here,
at Youtube-
BBC ‘Panorama,’ presented by John WARE-
‘The Battle for British Islam’
( 28 min video)