As is typical for the Beeb, this BBC article about the Euro is notable for inventing history. Contra the report, ‘Is Europe’s passion for the euro fading?’, which states that
‘It was a idea that could barely be whispered inside Europe’s corridors of power – might the European Union lose its appetite for the euro?’,
there was never a time when Europe demonstrated a passion or appetite for the Euro, which has endured a very chequered history including a dramatic Danish ‘No’ when they were given a referendum to decide the issue. Hiding behind the idea that this is some tacit criticism of the EU’s ostrichism simply doesn’t cover the facts: Euro-enthusiasm is clearly suggested.
The BBC shows an amazing symbiosis with the EU powers in its ability to forget democratic votes which go against their chosen narrative. A few years ago they unaccountably found themselves reporting that ‘The poll result is a vote of no confidence in a euro which has declined so far that the world’s central banks felt it necessary to intervene on the markets and boost it.’
Now of course that’s been air-brushed away in time for the valiant ‘down but not out’ Euro to fight another day. Meanwhile the choice to lead with the Germans’ discontent rather than an Italian’s genuinely revolutionary (and quite popular) anti-Euro passion shows the BBC’s preference for Euro insiders rather than sceptics despite the fact that the Italian made the real splash, both in the hearts of Europeans and the pockets. The Beeb journalist dismisses this as ‘posturing’, yet I don’t think I’ve heard much about pro-Euro, or even pro-EU (amounting to the same thing) ‘posturing’ recently, despite the absurdities of Chirac and co.. Can it be that the Euro is too unpopular for supporting it to be populist? Seems like the Beeb have had enough of that nasty democratic nee-saying posturing for the time being.
OT;
The BBC were talking about a man who wanted to climb all mountains over 8000 metres.A quick calculation if you can do it equals 26000 feet they said.
It is even easier to say 5 miles.All the BBC man would have to do is realise a kilometre (1000) is 5/8 of a mile.A speedometer shows 50 miles at 80 km.
“All the BBC man would have to do is realise a kilometre (1000) is 5/8 of a mile”
..and the Bias?
BBC employees, like EU employees know better than most of the people, and they have a duty to tirelessly explain what the masses should think. It’s a tough job, but somebody has to do it.
Ed Thomas wrote in Blog:
“there was never a time when Europe demonstrated a passion or appetite for the Euro”
The fact that of those EU countries that held a referendum only one voted against it does suggest that on the whole some form of ‘appetite’ does or has existed for the Euro. I write this as a bonafide Eurosceptic.
Ed, I regret to have to say that I didn’t bother to follow your links because I found your blog rambling, incoherent and (viz above) poorly argued that it didn’t seem worthwile. Sorry. I hope you appreciate the candour.
Hal
Not one, but two countries (Denmark and Sweden) voted to keep their own currencies. IIRC, most, if not all countries adopting the Euro did not hold a referendum.
It’s a fact that th Euro has NOT enjoyed widespread support across the various nations of Europe. A majority of Germans have always been against it, the French have always been sceptical and the Italians never wanted it in the first place.
At most, support for the Euro was lukewarm.
Theres one word to sum up what the “smart money” think of the Euro and indeed the entire horlicks that is the EU and that is SWITZERLAND.
“The fact that of those EU countries that held a referendum only one voted against it..”
Sweden voted against it as well:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3108292.stm
Britain said no to the Euro.
Holland weren’t asked but the current NO to the EU constitution reflected Dutch resentment towards the Euro, and was a dominant part of the Nee campaign arguments.
“I found your blog rambling, incoherent and (viz above) poorly argued that it didn’t seem worthwile.”
Ed’s point of view could be debated but your argument (viz above) is at best poor.
This is why you resort to cheap insults which somehow do seem worthwhile.
[deleted]. I hope you appreciate the candour.
It did seem worthwhile to write this comment
Edited By Siteowner
off topic but good fun
http://www.planetvids.com/html/Howard-Stern-Prank-to-CNN-Part-One.html
Be fair on the Beeb: the Italian welfare minister also wants to break up *Italy*, nevermind the euro. He’s not representative of much, beyond the fact that the Northern League are a bit mental. And he certainly doesn’t have the support of his government, or any responsibility for finance in his role.
The German discontent is far more interesting, in that it involves serious people who know what they’re talking about and have the power to Do Stuff.
Alternatively, if you were a conspiracy theorist, you might want to suggest that the Wops and the Krauts are deliberately talking the Euro down from its current (extremely high) value against the US$ in the hope of boosting exports and cutting unemployment…
more howard stern
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=howardplug.wmv
Pete_in_London
Thanks for the correction. I certainly do owe Ed Thomas an apology. Having done a bit of searching I can only find that Denmark and Sweden held referendums on the Euro. The poor argument was clearly mine, not his. Sorry Ed.
Max wrote:
“f[***] off. I hope you appreciate the candour”.
Max, it’s very difficult to legislate for people like you on the internet, but if you really do care about the cause of exposing BBC bias perhaps in future you can behave in a mature and responsible manner and not as a gifthorse to the BBC? Thank you.
Article on Opinion Journal:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006778
It’s by the London bureau chief of Fox News and exposes the BBC’s bias, BBBC even gets a name check
Hal
I thought everyone knew that only two countries had asked their people if they wanted the godforsaken Euro, ie Sweden & Denmark. We know their answer and we now know that the citizens of Holland Germany and Italy are unhappy bunnies.
Aren’t we lucky we did not follow the bidding of the BBC and join up ourselves?
OT
Anyone seen this story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4607053.stm
The story is about satellite photos of changes in the planet caused by “deforestation, urbanisation & climate change”, with the following picture highlighting the environmental impact:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/sci_nat_changing_environment/img/laun.jpg
When you click on the picture to find out the details, it’s a photo of greenhouses in Southern Spain, built on farmland due to “massive and rapid agricultural change”.
I’d be interested to know how much the EU’s common agricultural policy was a factor in causing these changes. I’d have thought CAP would be a pretty significant cause of the changes in the BBCs front page picture. Doesn’t get a mention though.
OT
The BBC contines to give headline treatment to the Gitmo Korans.
Bt fils to mention that the report found 15 examples of deliberate (not accidental) Korn buse by the detainees themselves, including ripping pages out, attempting to flush it down the toilet and urinating on it.
No mention by the BBC EVER of some of the filthy abuse and behaviour from detainees to prison guards – especially women guards. Little mention of the extraordinary steps taken at Gitmo to enable the practice of the religion. Including providing each prisoner with the book that they use to justify their terrible behaviour.
And when the BBC gives interview space to creeps like Moazzim Begg, they never try to balance this with any comments from the guards themselves. They are simply trying to provide a platform for anti-US sentiments.
OT
Most of the BBC reporting and tone seems to be totally out of step with us hoi-polloi on the question of Africa:
http://telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/06/04/naid04big.gif
When exactly were the British people gven the chance to vote on adopting the Euro? …just asking…
Hal –
I still think you’re getting more than you’re paying for… 😆
Well, in fairness to Hal and others who are unclear about the Euro’s progress through the popular mind, I should have mentioned Sweden, and done some of the Google searching that Hal later did. Personally I find that the obfuscation surrounding the (lack of) popular support enjoyed by European institutions makes it difficult either to have the facts clear or, worse, develop an interest in them.
I thought that two Scandinavian countries had voted no. I knew that many countries had never held a referendum on the Euro, and that it had been especially controversial in Germany from the beginning, where the love affair had clearly been with the strong German Mark. In the absence of a comprehensive picture in my mind of the last five years and more of Euro-life, and in the light of my general knowledge of the issue, I thought I’d zero in on Demark.
BBC journalists, however, paid well and in prime position to have such a comprehensive grasp, have no business making up some Hans Christian Andersen version. Once upon a time there was a good little Euro… etc.
I recommend the EU referendum blog or Eursoc for the full facts, merrily presented, of the matter.
ps. thanks to Max for his excellent terrier-like qualities. I believe though that a certain kind of yapping is frowned upon around these parts.
Peter wrote:
” thought everyone knew that only two countries had asked their people if they wanted the godforsaken Euro”
I think I was getting confused with the Maastricht referendums … I’m of that age you know, mind going the same way as the belly.
Ron;
Heights are usually given in feet for aviation and mountains,but since when has the BBC been correct in that?
It could have given the height in miles as well because people can still visualise miles but schools have`nt taught imperial for years.But ,to the BBC,this might help with understanding other ways of meassurement,and the BBC would like to help in social engineering this out of us.
France also had a referendum on the Euro which very narrowly supported its adoption. However, I read that continental France was majority ‘no’ and that the mass of votes from the residual empire (Guadeloupe, Reunion etc.) tilted the poll in favour of the Euro. Can anyone confirm?
It would appear that this time round, “if we win by miles, they can’t cheat” (or bribe).
I thought I recalled reading that Italy like the euro because the Lira was so inflated that it took thousands to do anything useful?..
TedN
I was spending quite a bit of time in Italy when the Euro was adopted. The attraction of the currency was not the note but the fact that Italy could palm off its vast debts and future liabilities (i.e. pensions) onto the taxpayers elsewehere int he Eurozone. In their place I may have done the same.
I stand to be corrected but I believe that France did not have a referendum on the Euro.
The very close referendum in France referred to by Allan@Aberdeen was on the subject of the Maastricht Treaty.
Peter, I think that you’re right, but the outcome was affected by the votes from the former empire.
Off Topic
Natan Sharansky, is allegedly required reading for the Bush Administration. In his book, The Case For Demacracy: The Power Of Freedom To Overcome Tyranny and Terror” he claims that non • democratic societies or ‘fear societies’ need an ‘external enemy’, by ‘tapping into the strong national, religious, ethnic sentiments that an enemy arouses, regimes divert attention away from their subjects miserable living conditions’.
I thought this a little Orwellian, but I thought that it would be easy enough to check out. I went to the Al Jazeera website, allegedly the more moderate Arabic news agency, where you do indeed get gems such as:
1. “Iraq: A War For Israel”
2. “Hariri assassinated to make way for US Airbase”
3. “Tsunami a Man Made Disaster”
4. “Israel Assasinated Hariri To Force Face Off With Hezbollah”
5. “U.S. plans for Iraq’s oil set out before the warU.S. plans for Iraq’s oil set out before the war ”
Sharansky seems bang on the money to me. Al- Jazeera seem to be getting a reasonable amount of such anti Israeli and anti- American rubbish from our dear old BBC. The BBC also covered the ‘Tsunami caused by America’ story. The story on “US plans for Iraqi oil” is actually a BBC Newsnight ‘investigation’ by Mr Greg Pallast, a notorious anti • bush campaigner.
Also, the truly awful ‘Power Of Nightmares’, in which the BBC claimed that Islamic fundamentalism does not exist, but is an invention of the Neocons is being covered on Al Jazeera as:
“By far and away the best documentary on British terrestrial television”
However Al Jazeera chastises the BBC documentary as the:
“series is marred by two striking deficiencies: firstly, the failure to mention that lost of the American Neocons are Israelis and, secondly, his sidelining of the Palestinian- Israeli conflict.”
It is quite bizarre how elements of the left, including the BBC, are able to align with totalitarian and religious fanatics. I do not understand what the left stands for anymore, but then again it seems neither do they.
A saunter through the recent history of the Left (and I include Mr Hitler)ought to tell you all that you need to know. Left wing ideology is incredibly dangerous and inimical to freedom and Humanism, don`t ask Al Beeb to wake up to this, they do what they do in the full knowledge of the implication of the outcomes.
Socialism and Islam are bedfellows. The disgusting BBC is a compliant handmaiden.
Socialism equals crushing, mindnumbing orthodoxy and death in very large numbers.
Alex, so… Hitler = socialism. Socialism = death. BBC = socialism and death. Have I got it about right?
That sounds about right.
Absolutely right, I second that! Stay clear of lefties.
P.S.: Can’t get reiterated enough: NSDAP = National Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei which means National Socialist German Workers Party!!!
Yes we all know that Hitler called his party the National Socialists. Saddam Hussein also pretended to be a Socialist, as did Stalin. Hardly think that proves they actually were. Socialists surely believe in giving workers some control over the means of production. Not the case in fascist Germany.
Socialism has NEVER given the workers any control. Socialism means STATE control. Control by a different set of bosses.
Basil – Go study the disasters of read Herbert Morrisonian nationalisation, read Animal Farm and grow up.
I’ve got a few colleagues who lived under the SED regime in East Germany before the fall of the Berlin wall. Ask them how much they controlled production and if they were among the privileged… Stop dreaming, mate – socialism ain’t gonna work. If that’s not clear by now I don’t know what might convince you guys otherwise.
Basil,
So who are the socialists when in power?
Basil Dear
You got in one!
the BBC must be watched on its coverage of this………………. http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=644301
“Socialists surely believe in giving workers some control over the means of production.
Basil was reading Kangas’ “hitler was a leftist”.
When he should have read John Ray’s “Hitler was a socialist”. (“But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production”. It does? Only to Marxists. So Kangas is saying only that Hitler was less Leftist than the Communists — and that would not be hard.”)
Marxism is extreme left-wing socialism and Nazism is extreme right wing socialism. The difference is internationalism and nationalism, and now, both extremes have met in the middle over their ever so not at all anti-semitic opposition to the State of Israel.
How else do you explain fellow travellers on the Conservative far-right such as Pat Buchanan supporting the candidacy of John Kerry? I think David Duke did the same as well, as well as lauding Ken Livingstone on his website. An astounding phenomenon that ‘strangely’ enough, the BBC seems to completely ignore. I’m sure there’s a reasonable explanation.
There was wide acceptance for the Euro, but Passion? Thats really going too far.
We Were In Italy in February …
… and we were told on two different occasions, by Italians (well, actually, Tuscans: there are no Italians) that when Italy switched to the euro, prices for everything doubled, and salaries stayed the same. Italy was, of all the countries, hardest-hit by the Euro conversion.
Yes, a lot of people say that. They are, however, deluded. Unless you believe that inflation statistics are made up to hide such matters, in which case I’ve got a lovely tinfoil hat for sale.
Yes john b, inflation statistics are a crock of male bovine excretion.
How do you explain that while my salary has more than doubled in five years (way beyond inflation) the property that I can now afford has gone from a three bedroom terrace to a one bedroom flat?
The statistics do reflect the basic weekly expenditure of food and transport and the consumables that our society seems to value so much (white goods, clothing and holidays) but they do not reflect the long term reality for peoples finances (housing and pensions).
I understand that in Italy one of the highest rates of Euro inflation was in restaurant prices. Not an issue for Northern European cultures that tend to see a meal out as a luxury but a large one for cultures that do have a less puritan view on eating out.
“How do you explain that while my salary has more than doubled in five years (way beyond inflation) the property that I can now afford has gone from a three bedroom terrace to a one bedroom flat?”
I can’t: it just isn’t true.
It’s possible that property prices in one particular district that was massively scabby and has now become all gentrified have risen enough for that to be the case (like Belshill). But it’s not true WRT the UK in general, or any region of the UK.
Meals out are included in inflation statistics.
Well, Peregrine old chap, looks like we might as well clam up. john b says it just isn’t true. john b, for Heaven’s sake, give up this time-wasting on internet boards, and get over to the Vatican — the world needs the Truth, john b, and you’re doling it out in these wretched little scraps!