For a few short hours, as Harry’s Place reports, the BBC were prepared to call those who attacked civilians in London on Thursday ‘terrorists’. A day later they had become ‘bombers’.
Stephen Pollard points out that Newsnight seem to have been convinced by George Galloway.
Respect –
“We urge the government to remove people in this country from harms way, as the Spanish government acted to remove its people from harm, by ending the occupation of Iraq …”
Newsnight’s Peter Marshall –
“What the war [on terror] was supposed to prevent, it has brought about.”
“I really don’t need to go into it with you. You are either dissembing shamelessly, or you don’t know much about Islam, period.”
So to recap, you read a book and that tells you how muslims interact with democracy in the UK?
I live in the UK, and know plenty enough muslims to understand how they interact with democracy, thanks. I don’t need a book to tell me the laws they abide by, that they vote like other people. In short that they behave like most other people.
Colour me unconvinced, both by your vague argument and your little rhetorical flourishes “either you agree with me, or you are a liar or a fool”.
PS. If you don’t agree with *me*, you are either dissembling or a knave, I tell you.
I did not read “a book”, Anonymous, I read **the** books.
I have zero respect for you after what you posted back to me. I gave you a concrete example, the example of death sentences for apostates, in answer to your question of how mainstream Islam challenges democracy.
You ignored what I said and slammed me for being vague — a vagueness necessitated by the fact that your country is in the process of outlawing criticism of Islam!
Pure Guardianista “arguing tactics.” Your handlers must be very proud of you.
“Tell me what you find so bad about Islam, but if you do, I’ll make sure to prosecute the owners of this site for incitement to religious hatred.”
F*ck that, Stalinista! Ain’t falling for your obvious trolling.
“Tell me what you find so bad about Islam, but if you do, I’ll make sure to prosecute the owners of this site for incitement to religious hatred.”
Not sure who you are quoting here, but it ain’t me.
For someone who gets so shrill when you think you are being insulted, you sure do make accusations, slurs and insults your MO.
My “handlers”? Give us all a break.
If you want to quote the Koran and find all sorts of nasties, it’s just as easy to do the same thing for the bible.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/comparative/christ/bible_deathsentence.htm
And yet, I’m not going to descend to your ridiculous level of claiming that Christianity is a single, unwavering entity, that moderate Christians don’t exist, or that Christians can’t function within a democratic society, or that mainstream Christians believe this poppycock and determine to follow it to the letter.
Bishops sit in the House of Lords, and Christian religious leaders have a long and rich history of poltical involvement in Britain and yet it’s still plainly absurd to claim, as you do with Islam, that Christanity = a political ideology, incompatible with democracy.
Moderates are perfectly capable of reoconciling their religious and their political obligations or beliefs. Extremists, Christian or Muslim, can’t.
In case you’ve forgotten, we’re talking about mainstream Muslims in the UK, a point you still haven’t actually addressed. What proof do you have that mainstream Muslims in the UK can’t function within a democracy?
Anonymous,
Bringing up Bible quotes from a well-known Islamic dawah (missionary) site? Oh, how cute you are!
Funny how you, a disinterested party, even knew that site existed. Are you perhaps a colleague of Farina Alam, the site’s owner? She does write for the Guardian now and then.
I’m done with you, you are full of tripe. Don’t bother addressing me in the future.
“Funny how you, a disinterested party, even knew that site existed. Are you perhaps a colleague of Farina Alam, the site’s owner? She does write for the Guardian now and then”
Ah, the old smear tactics, again. When in doubt, you without fail always accuse me of having a personal interest. You are beyond parody, Susan, with your hamfisted attempts take the moral high ground while throwing about wild and unfounded accusations.
I don’t care if you don’t answer because your response is the same old personal tripe.
PS. Tap “death sentences for apostates” into Google. It’s the 2nd site. Perhaps the nice people at Google are all craven Guardianistas.
PPS. It doesn’t actually matter what site the quotes came from. They’re direct quotes from the bible, and you’re still squirming away.
May I point out that none of those biblical death sentences are enforced in Christian countries or in Israel. The same most certainly cannot be said of Islamic countries. I’m sure you recall the case of that Nigerian rape victim who was to be stoned to death for adultery. And of course Taliban controlled Afganistan was well known for its executions of ‘adulterous’ women and homosexual men.
The merciful, enlightened verses in the Koran etc. that defenders of Islam constantly cite do exist. The problem is those are not the ones Moslems live by in their own states. Islam needs to experience the same shift in focus that both Judaism and Christianity have had, a shift from the more primitive and punitive aspects of the faith to the enlightened.
Unfortunately there is little sign of this happening any time soon.
Got awfully quiet here all of a sudden….does that mean I scored a point?
Anonymous:
I haven’t “squirmed away”. You’ve pulled up the same tu quoque argument I’ve heard 700,000 times before (that’s why this tu quoque “argument” is posted on an Islamic missionary site — it’s as common as dirt in Islamic circles.). I’ve argued it 700,000 times before.
I don’t care what your response is because your response is the same old tu quoque and slippery evasions.
The Bible doesn’t occupy the same purpose in Judeo-Christianity as the Koran does in Islam. Comparing them is comparing apples to oranges — or more likely, watermelons to bananas.
I could outline why that is, but it would be an exhaustive post and that’s not what this site is all about.
Roxana Cooper – the peaceful verses in the Koran were all “abrogated” by the later, more violent ones. They need to get rid of the theological concept of “abrogation” before they can even talk about emphasizing the peaceful verses in the Koran.