This “personal view” by historian David Cannadine is a strange mishmash of an article. To start with, I’ve never heard of this “Guy Fawkes Day”. Bonfire Night is presumably what he means.
It is explicitly stated to be the personal view of the author, so it can be held to a somewhat less stringent standard of impartiality than the BBC’s main output. Somewhat. (Although see this comment by PaulC, who says that the BBC is fond of plausible deniability in its selection of experts.) Just how willing do you think the BBC would be to publish an appeal for prejudice against any other nation than the United States?
And the Americanised Halloween is sweeping all before it – a vivid reminder of just how powerfully American culture and American consumerism can be transported across the Atlantic.
But here, perhaps, is an opportunity for the revival of 5 November. For those who wish to protest at the ever increasing Americanisation of our world might take up Bonfire Night as their cause.
Huh? I, too, would like to see Bonfire Night revived – but Cannadine’s argument that this traditional British festival should be revived because too much attention is being given to American ways of celebrating another festival the week before is just a near-random excuse for anti-Americanism.
The BBC and other media outlets gave a good deal of attention to the Islamic festival of Eid-al-Fitr that took place this year on November 4. Yet the BBC would not publish an article containing a call for people to take up Bonfire Night in protest at increasing Islamisation. Even if the BBC would publish a serious “personal view” article by someone arguing that increasing Islamisation was either undesirable or happening at all, which I doubt it would, it would never even consider allowing a someone writing in that context to advocate pointless needling for the sake of it. (“Making faces at Uncle Sam”)
But how comparable are the two? At this point I started off on a breakdown of the respective risks to public order of whipping up anti-Muslim and anti-American sentiment. Then I decided to omit it on grounds of space. Summary: immediate risk higher for anti-Muslim prejudice, long term risk higher for anti-American, and the risk is non-trivial in both cases. Yet we – even I, who make quite a point of complaining about it – have got so used to anti-Americanism that I scarcely notice it any more. Don’t judge Cannadine too harshly: not all of us can step clear of the prejudices of our class and era.
It’s a pity. Cannadine does describe the positive historical reasons for wanting to celebrate Guy Fawkes’ failure, albeit far more half-heartedly than he speaks of his sterile wish to “make faces at Uncle Sam”. Also he makes some good points about the real reason Bonfire Night has been downvalued: not trick-or-treating a few days earlier but endless safety nannyism. First they said that you were an irresponsible parent if you dared let off bangers in your own back garden and that all would be well if you went to a public display, then they made public displays more and more burdensome to run by means of firework restrictions and insurance premiums. Oh, and, as Cannadine himself says, another reason for the downgrading of Bonfire Night is that Britain is “now a multi-faith society.” At this point my more sharp-tongued relatives might point out that there is no “now” about it; the Catholics have been in Britain somewhat longer than the Protestants, actually. Blimey, just when the Irish component of Catholicism in Britain had finally just about let its historical grievances become history, along comes the victim culture to tell ’em to get resenting again. Cannadine seems half in this and half out of this: he wants Guys to be burned in every back yard again – yet he says:
It’s possible to be a Catholic Briton and admire Nelson; it’s hard to be a Catholic Briton without wincing at the sight of an effigy of Guy Fawkes going up in flames. I’m not a Catholic, but I do rather sympathise.
Well, my parents were devout Catholics of Irish descent and throughout my childhood our family always burnt a Guy come November 5, as did the families of my equally Catholic schoolfriends. Why? Because Guy Fawkes was a terrorist. That’s not just what I say now, it’s what we said then.
Happy Bonfire Night.
Here’s what else Simpson had to say in that article.
“No matter that events have thoroughly borne out his criticisms of the US and British invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Muslim teenagers who briefly applauded him then have long since forgotten all that – though of course if he had supported President George W Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair then, he would be in even greater trouble now.”
Events like holding elections, drafting a constitution and passing a referendum approving that constitution, and the liberation of 25 million people. Are those the events you refer to Simpson?
Of course we now know why France didn’t support us in the war. They were bribed by Saddam. Failed to mention that didn’t you Simpson.
Nice one marc.
OT – The BBC wouldn’t be trying to ‘bury’ this,….would they?
Clamping ‘to cut court workload’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4414262.stm
“The BBC and TV Licensing Authority may be given new powers to issue their own summonses for licence dodging.”
Exactly what new powers would that be?
As can be seen here:
Supporting Magistrates Courts to Provide Justice
Click to access 6681.pdf
it involves giving the BBC the power to authorise and issue its own summonses or fixed penalties.
Oh joy (eyes roll upwards). In the words of ‘The Sun’, will the last person to leave please turn out the lights?
Ritter: ” it involves giving the BBC the power to authorise and issue its own summonses or fixed penalties.”
The Bill of Rights 1689
That all grants and promises of “fines and forfeitures” of particular persons before conviction, are illegal and void.
Should give us some sport with the BBC licencing authorities in this case.
Ritter, you beat me too it!
Here is a fisk of the Simpson article
Dear John
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4414442.stm
“I’ve got this persistent feeling that 1968 is just about to happen all over again.”
Your friend said that, John? Perhaps you should have written an article on it for the BBC website. Oops, I suppose you were too busy attacking the US at the time. I can see it now, ‘France on verge of Revolution, deep resentment of the Government, etc,etc. ……..
………Yeah, fat chance.
“He thought it was because the French political system had run out of ideas and credibility, and he knew the French”
You should have written that in your non-existent article.
“Violence there is regular and unexceptionable. Even on a normal weekend, between 20 and 30 vehicles are regularly attacked and burned by rioters.”
Funny how we BBC viewers hadn’t heard that up until now. We know a lot about Katrina, though.
“the demonstrators know that the governmental system they are facing is deeply, perhaps incurably, sclerotic.”
That non-existent article could have been a good one.
“Mr Chirac, standing back until his ministers showed their inability to agree a clear line on the rioting”
Hiding, surely?
“No matter that events have thoroughly borne out his criticisms of the US and British invasion of Iraq in 2003”
Mmm…and pro-war criticisms have been “thoroughly borne out” by the Oil-for-Food scandal, haven’t they John? If Saddam had remained in power, then their criticisms of the UN scandal would have continued to be “thoroughly borne out,” wouldn’t they, John? For how many more years, John?
‘Oil-for Blood,’ John.
You may remember that BBC reporting of the ‘Oil for Food Scandal’ seemed to turn up in the Business section. That’s when you actually got around to reporting it, of course. Talking about time lag in reporting, did you see that it took the BBC three days to tell us about these riots? With this headline…..
“Silent march follows Paris riots”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4388536.stm
And we could have been forgiven for thinking, “Paris riots? What Paris riots?”
“The Muslim teenagers who briefly applauded him then have long since forgotten all that”
On the other hand, Muslim teenagers in Iraq are voting now. Go figure.
“if he had supported President George W Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair then, he would be in even greater trouble now”
Really, John? Got some facts to back that up? Or are you some kind of ‘oracle,’ or something?
“If the riot police could have restored order they would have done so, but they were overstretched and outwitted, and their only response was more of the kind of violence which made the crowds even more ferocious in their turn.”
No, John, the police were not overstretched…… on the first, second, third, or fourth night, etc. It got out of hand because of ineffectual leadership.
“and their only response was more of the kind of violence which made the crowds even more ferocious in their turn.”
What on earth are you talking about, John? How many rioters have been shot, John? I know at least ten policemen have…..
“Thanks to the Revolution, violence even has a kind of virtue which it simply does not possess in a country like Britain.”
Are you saying the French have a pre-disposition to violence? If I said that, the BBC would call me a xenophobe. It’s also worth remembering that the rioters do not consider themselves French. Kinda messes with your theory, doesn’t it?
“When government becomes incapable of change, the crowds in the streets have to do the changing for themselves.”
Viva! El Simpsone!!!
“I have seen many times for myself how the CRS, the deeply aggressive and ferocious force of riot police, have attacked Muslims and Africans in the streets in times of trouble.”
Really? I thought it was Yankee police that reaaaalllly, reaaallly hated black people.
“Nicolas Sarkozy, the Interior Minister, now seems to be playing politics with the situation by appealing to the most basic and resentful attitudes of conservative France.”
No, John, that was Media Spin. In fact, he was appealing to the common sense of the residents of the housing blocks.
Have a look at this
“It appears that Nicolas Sarkozy was deliberately demonized in the TV reports of him using his strong language earlier in the week. In fact, there was footage available showing Sarkozy using the word “racaille” (riff-raff) while speaking to an inhabitant of Clichy-sous-Bois who herself had just used the word while expressing how fed up she was with local crime.”
http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2005/11/further-lack-of-consuming-attention.html
“Much of the violence on the streets of France’s cities is mindless; some of it is malign. But simply stamping it down will not work – and anyway the CRS and the civil police have tried that, and their toughness has only made things worse.”
I haven’t seen any soldiers on the streets, John. They haven’t tried that, yet.
“France is going to have to change towards its unwilling, often unwelcome young second-generation population, and accommodate them better.”
How about the rioters act like civilised human beings, John? Have you heard of Ghandi? He was a peaceful protestor. And anyway, ‘Religion of Peace,’ and all that, y’know?
“It is not enough to demand that these people drop their sense of themselves and fit in with the way France has traditionally ordered its affairs.”
So what do you suggest, John? French conversion to Islam?
“But most of all there has to be change in attitudes at the top. And if Mr Chirac cannot do it, he will be fatally damaged as president”
Sorry……..did you just say, “will be” fatally damaged?
“Do you agree with John Simpson’s view of the violence in France? How should the authorities tackle it? What are the major challenges in store for French society? Send us your views on the form below.”
No, I don’t agree with him, but I won’t send you my views, because you probably won’t print them.
I’ll send this to ‘BBC Bias’ instead.
Morocco demonstrates against terrorists
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/11/massive-muslim-demonstration-against.html
BBC – never happened
http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=newsukfs&tab=news&q=morocco&go.x=18&go.y=16
Zeinab Badawi on BBC Four right now bashing “the Ammerican Dream”, all of couse while Muslims set fire to Paris and other EU cities.
You could not make it up!
Is the Beeb reporting that the French riots have now spread to Muslim areas of Belgium and Germany?
Badawi now over. that was the most embarrassing and disgracefull load of tosh and sets a new low even or the BBC. Badawi was begging for socialism in the US. Astonishing.
Badawi was begging for socialism in the US. Astonishing.
Yeah, so that we too can have a socialist paradise like France! We too can have 10 percent unemployment, negative GDP growth, and an underclass of ingrates burning down our cities because the welfare checks just aren’t hefty enough. (okay, we already got the last one already) Why is the Beeb so unbelievably clueless? Do they not understand that the French rioters have pulled the mask off their precious “European social model” forever?
French rioters now burning down churches and synogogues. BBC report? Where?
Badawi came over as a twisted Harpy who`d shared needles once too often baying for handouts.
If I were Ian Barnes, I`d be off for a lie down.
Be careful Susan, we are not immune in this country to rioters 🙁
Ritter,
“Clamping ‘to cut court workload'”
I’m one tiny tiny step from going proactive to destroy the BBC.
Once the BBC becomes an unelected state, it becomes a legitimate target to remove their tyranny.
The BBC should know now it is going to face a huge cost for their coup attempt.
Care to fight me for the wishbone this Thanksgiving, Professor?
In England we have bought, and continue to buy, the peace of our ethnic groups by pandering to their every whim.How long can this last?
LMO | 07.11.05 – 9:12 am There’s only so far one can crawl up ones own arse. When ones arse meets ones arse pandering ends, and then one’s arse is in a ripe position to get kicked.
An undeniably vivid image, Teddy Bear, but the last one like that for a while, if you please.
Zeinab Badawi.
I remember Miss Badawi from Channel 4 News.
And wasn’t the Beeb’s chief political commentator lured over from ITV as replacement for Andrew Marr?
All these people working for the Newspapers and the TV.
It’s rather an incestuous world in the MSM.
paulc,
All the UK media is warped by the 2.8Billion Entertainment & Jail mixing BBC.
Time for BBC staff to end up in jail.
Ms Badawi begging for socialism in the US is like me begging God for a 12 inch whatsit – it just isn’t going to happen, no matter how much I genuflect.
My apologies for the crudity of my post!
Rob
You should be jolly well hung for your comments!
Rob,is that a cheesy whatsit?Why the hell would you need one that big anyway?You could always buy a packet and put them end-to-end!
Buy the way, I think it depends on which god you beg.One of them offers 72 virgins:maybe that 12 inches would come in handy now I think about it.
My apologies for the crudity of my post!
Sometimes, when listening to Radio 4 in the morning, I ask myself whether any of the BBC’s Directors listen to the output. Thought(?) For The Day had on some nobody unconnected with religion braying about how the muslims were discriminated against in France through ‘institutional racism’ – it was like that. Then, on the subject of the Govt’s proposal to extend detention to 90 days for terrorist suspect, James Naughtie interviewed the wealthiest ‘human rights’ lawyer in the world, one Michael Mansfield QC who has gorged himself with taxpayers’ money. The ins and outs of the question are not settled in my mind yet but what was noticeable was the revered tones and manner by which Naughtie conducted his interview with Mr Mansfield. Immediately following was Charles Clark, Home Secretary, who was not interviewed so respectfully. Regardless of one’s view on the matter of the Govt’s proposal, it is quite clear that the BBC’s presenters are now either too lazy or too disrespectful to disguise their bias.
The recommened comments section on the HYS section of the BBC, is quite “off message”
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=144&&&edition=1&ttl=20051108094815
How long before the BBC pulls the plug?
The ‘most recent’ post seems to be Nov 6 @16.04 – think plug already pulled.
allan@aberdeen
the great and the good fall back on “institutional racism” and “lack of opportunity and integration” of rioting muslim populations because they have come to the end of the road. There are no more excuses left. Mark Steyn in todays Telegraph sees the threat, David Aaronovitch in todays Times does not and seems to think that the UK has been through it all and moved on because we have embraced “police form filling and political correctness”. The BBc is of the same view and has the nerve to lecture Europeans on how to Integrate, Police and generally Pacify angry and often criminal immigrant populations. Civil unrest in immigrant communities in the UK will return, where then our superiority? The Left are desperatly trying to square the circle of thier own creation. It is truly a busted flush.
This is the last chance for the Left in Europe and the UK, all of the excuses have been used and are worn out.No consent was ever sought or given for immigration into Europe on this scale. Everything that has been pushed by the Left has ended in disaster, mass immigration will be no different. Denial is a bad place to begin to solve a problem.
SiN’s comments are generally true, but it should be pointed out that there are differences in the qualities of immigrants which those on the Left do not wish to have mentioned. In today’s Daily Telegraph, an interviewee berates the Arabs as lazy, untrustworthy and aggressive: the interviewee is an immigrant of Vietnamese root.
About 8 years ago, the UK had the opportunity to be the preferred option for the cleverest people in the world if they needed a bolthole. Unfortunately we rejected the claims of Hong Kong’s people and instead we got …..
The nobody on Thought for the Day this morning was one Ian Bell who for reasons I’ve never worked out thinks he’s somebody. Because it was radio you couldn’t see the beard and the wooden cross he wears. He’s been condescending to people in Scotland for decades now, so it came as a bit of a shock to see he’d widened his sphere of operations. His message is always that it’s all our (ie us, not him) fault for not following his rather droopy allotrope of Christianity. He represents what the BBC thinks Christianity’s “really” about – which says it all.
By the way, I enjoy a good Fisking. Can someone explain the basic rules? I might have a shot at it myself.
No Pasaran reports on how the French socialist media are covering up most of the details of the riots:
http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2005/11/french-msm-covers-up-what-is-in-fact.html
Women are being pulled from their cars and stoned and the French media refuses to cover it!!!!
This is what the Beeb would do to, if it were happening in the UK.
The only alternative news outlet the French have — talk radio.
Incidentally the Police seem very active in the Brick-lane/Whitechapel (mainly “buddhist” )area, somethings going on….
Is it the end of Ramadan?
Rob Read
“mainly Buddhist” LOL.
There are 6 million Muslims in a population of 60 million in France.
In Great Britain we have an increase by a factor of 10 since the Labour (Communist) government came into office. That is, from from just over 100,000 to over 1 million. I still ask the same question on this website, WHY?
“I still ask the same question on this website, WHY?”
The gramscians thought they would be easy to bribe with taxpayers money.
er, those figures are obviously b*llocks. there were over 200,000 Pakistani immigrants alone in the UK in 1991, not to mention the Bangladeshis etc etc. Plus the government is clearly not Communist. What’s the point of spouting bullsh*t when there’s good points to be made??