Someone could try telling Magdi Abdelhadi of the BBC.
Abdelhadi has an opinion piece in which he attributes the cartoon situation to three factors:
‘1)the rise of violent political Islam
2)America’s war on terror
3)modern transnational media.’
So it’s one part bad muslims, one part bad America, and one part neutral (I suppose).
Well, curious. I thought that ‘America’s’ war on terror was contingent on a certain act of Islamic violence. (maybe it shouldn’t have waited that long, but it did). I mean 9/11, of course.
Setting that aside though, the BBC’s analysis overall is really short on a factor they know very well to have been at play: that is the agitation of muslim clerics. Abdelhadi should know a lot about this because he did the BBC’s profile on one of authorities which received a delegation which publicised the cartoons in the Islamic world: Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi. For an expert on Islam and the Sheikh, it’s curious the BBC’s man thought this irrelevant. He mentions ‘diligent’ internet activism, but not the actual delegation, which was received by ‘Arab League Secretary Amr Moussa, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Sheikh Mohammad Sayyed Tantawi, and Sunni Islam’s most influential scholar, Yusuf al Qaradawi’ (The Counterterrorism blog) .
The interesting part about the BBC’s role in all of this is that, in the reports that initially heralded the cartoon controversy as it re-emerged over that last week or so, they included the three ‘extra’ cartoons that the delegation used to arouse anger- cartoons which had nothing to do with Jyllands-Posten. (see The Counter-terrorism blog for more detail, as linked above) The cartoons were presented in a booklet, according to this account, which brought to mind DFH’s excellent screen grab from a BBC report. I wonder if the BBC didn’t in fact have the inside track on this delegation, either directly or more likely though their link-up with Al Jazeera. (for those wondering about the BBC’s recent decision to launch an Arabic channel in competition, I would say that this doesn’t mean the BBC is any less involved with Al-Jazeera, but that it is trying to diversify its role in the region)
I’d argue that this link up is actually deeply undermining any sense of the BBC’s objectivity. In order to have the opportunity to interview the likes of Al-Qaradawi they have to accept that what they get from their Islamic sources is reliable, when it isn’t. This was a major gaffe, not least because the defusal of the situation could have been achieved by pouring scorn on the whole train of propaganda which was clearly at work, of which the BBC’s faked cartoons were the best evidence. So far as I am aware the BBC have not apologised or even recognised their mistake, if it can be called that, or analysed the part the fakes have had to play in the events that have transpired. No doubt they’ve merely been basking in the pathetic Jack Straw’s approval of their peep-show approach. Oh, and no doubt Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi’s.
Update: I’ve just discovered this post from Michelle Malkin which includes a partial transcript of an Fox interview with the leader of the delegation mentioned above. Reading this, I find Abu Laban- no relation to the B-BBC blogger that I’m aware of :-)-, who was the leader of the Danish Imam delegation that the BBC seems keen to avoid mentioning, concluding a dialogue thus:
‘Jonathon Hunt: So, you want a new set of rules for the way Western Europe lives?
Imam Ahmad Abu Laban: Yes.’
And this is interesting, because see how Magdi Abdelhadi finishes his report:
‘part of the Western consensus is that poking fun at religious figures is acceptable.
It seems that some Muslim activists living in Europe are determined to redefine the boundaries of that consensus.’
Seems as though the BBC know all about it. Mmmm. They’re just telling us in their own ‘balanced’ way.
‘Its time to start the real crusades and eliminate the brainless mob insects from our world.’
Is this the way you argue against ‘the brainless mob’?
bit of an idiot alright that poster. crusades. get a life.
i rather liked my Fisking of that beeboid news report on attacks on the Jews.
just pointing out that political correctness ends up going so far up its own arse that it ends up being something that is not , err, “PC”
On Newsnight they did show the offensive cartoon depicting Anne Frank in bed with Hitler (obviously not worried about being threatened by Jews) but still no sign of them showing the original Danish cartoons.
Hypocrites and cowards.
The Radio 5 phone-in this morning was the most one-sided farce I’ve ever heard, and that is saying something !
It didn’t even try to be balanced, giving us muslim supporting “experts” one after the other, with an ex-policeman who was given at the most two minutes of an hour long show….and he didn’t say anything worth hearing anyway.
One muslim lawyer contradicted himself countless times, yet wasn’t challenged once.
I’ve also noticed the appearence on radio phone-ins of people claiming to be called typical British names like Mark, Peter, John, Susan, Sally etc…and then speaking in a middle eastern accent whilst they rant about the joys of islam ?
As always when we experience the fanatical face of islam, today was given over as a day of cuddly islam, we are not all nutters propaganda.
I gave up and turned it off. I’m sick of being lied to.
more rank stupidity from the BBC who wish that they were a commereial broadcaster but dont have the guts to submit to market forces
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=376344&in_page_id=1773
On Tonight the BBC shows the blatantly anti-semitic cartoon of Anne Frank in bed with Hitler but not one of the Danish cartoons.
Sorry missed Anonymous post at 11:26
heres more rank stupidity from an organization that should be asking “what is Sami Chakribarti doing now?”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4174519.stm
Khayam read out his apology outside his Bedford home.
“I found the pictures deeply offensive as a Muslim and I felt the Danish newspaper had been provocative and controversial, deeply offensive and insensitive.
“Just because we have the right of free speech and a free media, it does not mean we may say and do as we please and not take into account the effect it will have on others.
———————————-
I wonder if he said the same thing in court when he was convicted of the Coke and Heroin charges.
being called an idiot by a dhimmie is an honor.
If you wish to make further comments here you must change your pseudonym to something non-offensive. I am leaving this one in place only so that subsequent comments can be understood – NS.
Edited By Siteowner
“heres more rank stupidity from an organization that should be asking “what is Sami Chakribarti doing now?”
well she is hot. so i forgive her.
and killa- take your bnp fascist bile somewhere else please.
we’re trying to have a rational, civilised debate. if you want Auswitz or Treblinka mark 2, then there are plenty of other places to that.
damn – no edit option..
i meant “to do that”
having said that, it is interesting how killa’s attitude has come through.
lets think back to the 30s. constant propaganda about the “jews” – and 10 years later, nobody batting an eyelid about shooting jews.
lets think about the current situation – could the hate in the west towards islam turn nasty to the extent that we repeat the holocaust?
in the light of PC nonsense, i think we’re rather close to it.
…the BBC line is already decided.
This is now a question of ‘Respect’.
That way nasty questions about other matters such as incitement,terrorism and fear can just be put down to abberations.
The BBC (and probably the rest of the British media) cannot afford for this to become a Freedom of Speech debate.
‘Respect’ now becomes one of those Orwellian words –
Respect = self-censorship.
paulc | 06.02.06 – 6:29 pm | #
The Prime Minister’s Official Spokesman (PMOS) prostrated himself yesterday morning at his press briefing on the Danish Cartoons, when he said:
“It was always sensible for freedom of expression to be exercised with respect for religious belief.”
I’m sorry, I disagree. Just look at the modern Western canon. Were Voltaire’s, Rousseau’s, Hume’s, Marx’ or Nietzsche’s writings published out of “respect” for religious belief? Or that Danish genius, Soeren Kierkegaard’s writings? From an English perspective was George Sale’s introduction to the Koran in the 18th century exercised with “respect” for Mohammed? Was Monty Python’s film “Life of Brian” undertaken out of “respect” for Christianity- of course not. All of these writers were critical in revolutionary ways about religion. They are part of our European heritage, as is the cutting and biting humour of say a Jonathan Swift. Why should this critical faculty(in the West) be any different for the religion of Islam? As Hirsi Ali, the prophetess of the Zeitgeist says:
“When will the Europeans realize that the Islamists don’t allow their critics the same right? After the West prostrates itself, they’ll be more than happy to say that Allah has made the infidels spineless.”
Instead our government, the BBC and the spineless media are all acting rather like that policeman filmed and shown on BBC 2s Newsnight this evening! (Full marks for showing it)Waving a threatening finger at that chap who was so outraged that he got out of his van to protest at those Islamic protestors and speak the truth, and was threatened with arrest. It has really come to something when in London, the police are prepared to arrest people who wish to protest against Muslim fanatics. I don’t know about others here but that footage had for me all the poignancy of seeing that chap stand in front of a tank on Tiananmen square. The Newsnight debate was a funny fiasco, the claim that the police checked all the placards of the demonstrators before and approved them, in the light of that sensational film footage has more than a grain of truth about it.
Archduke:
Regarding the ignorant, fat pigs from Kuwait – to think that American and British soldiers, among others, gave their lives so these vermin could live their comfortable life slandering us.
I’m under no illusions that we fought the war for our interests and not theirs, but the thought that these scum prospered while we left behind hundreds of our troops sticks in the throat.
SiN:
What the American military should have done was not develop some sort of ‘gay bomb’ but develop a weapon which turns every soldier within 30 miles into a Beeboid. They would have laid down their arms faster than you could say “License fee”.
Once again the mantra repeated by government and BBC:
“Freedom of expression needed to be exercised with respect for religious belief. To put it another way people needed to distinguish between what they could do and, given the sensitivities, what they should do.”
http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/page9013.asp
This demostration was an organised act of terrorism and intimidation, on the British people. This is clear. What makes this event interesting is seeing the BBC work out how to “spin it” otherwise.
MI5 will have all these people on video, know who, and where they are. Will Tony/BBC have the balls, to arrest them all? Dont bett money on it.
Unfortunatly for Nick Griffin, he is a National Socialist, that has no power or money. Arab National Socialism has lotts of both. Muslim National Socialism has also lotts of both, GOD the Labour Party and the BBC, on their side. Your FREEDOM has no friends, power or money. If you feel vunerable, it is because you are.
John writes:
“…rather like that policeman filmed and shown on BBC 2s Newsnight this evening! (Full marks for showing it)Waving a threatening finger at that chap who was so outraged that he got out of his van to protest at those Islamic protestors and speak the truth, and was threatened with arrest.”
Excellent comment, John. And I, too, am impressed with Newsnight (one of the very few times) for having shown that disgraceful episode.
It seems to me that the young plod in question surely must have been overstepping his authority? Is there really no redress against this sort of self-righteous officiousness (and I do hope an official complaint was made)- or do we simply have to accept that when he grows up he’ll be appointed the next but three Chief Commissioner?
In the absence of anything official – has the BBC effectively named and shamed him? One can only hope so, because something should be done about his attitude. And if the Met won’t do it, congratulations to the BBC for not letting it go unrecorded.
As a part Jew, can I please remind you confused people out their that, the Holocaust was carried out by the German GOVERMENT and then in other peoples countries by means of bribes and conquest. The Jewish people and their money were never a threat to peace in Germany. Just a potential threat to the continuation of a long war.
Archduke et al.: If you read the postings on most pro-Western blogs you’ll notice that the language has got more aggressive. As a German (by birth, not choice) who is pro-Israel, pro-US, pro-Western and conservative I know where I stand. Have we learned our lessons (Hitler, Stalin, the Holocaust) or will we – because most of us are so peace-loving and probably too fat and lazy to take a stand – be the appeasers of the 21st century? I’m not that fat nor that lazy so I’d say there are interesting times ahead for a specific minority group (I hope that was subtle enough).
What the American military should have done was not develop some sort of ‘gay bomb’ but develop a weapon which turns every soldier within 30 miles into a Beeboid. They would have laid down their arms faster than you could say “License fee”.
Rob | 07.02.06 – 12:55 am |
Rob: Now that’s a classic… I’ll head to bed laughing. What an analogy!
Have we learned our lessons (Hitler, Stalin, the Holocaust) or will we – because most of us are so peace-loving and probably too fat and lazy to take a stand – be the appeasers of the 21st century?
Despite what “educators” like to pretend there are no mass-movements in history; there are leaders and followers – if events continue as in Europe at present ie:
high and persistent unemployment; insecurity; fear of poverty; huge disparities of wealth; flaunting of celebrity; and the violent posturing of a minority alien culture against the host population – then the eruption will occur, the rise of nationalist and ethnic feeling which is latently steaming away.
We have seen the end of the Post-1945 Full-Employment Era after the 1973 Oil Shock from OPEC; we are now seeing the dismantling of the Welfare State and Health Care and Pensions; the deliberate hollowing out of industry to the benefit of China, and rampant deflation in agriculture and manufacturing — it is hard to imagine the pent-up frustration will not explode and blow away the political elites.
We live in what used to be called the Ancien Regime and the mines which will explode it are being prepared. People forget that the two most violent wars in the history of the world started in Europe and no one power could contain them
http://www.liberty-and-culture.com/pages/2/
“the rise of nationalist and ethnic feeling which is latently steaming away.”
read up on the Lonsdale youth gangs in Holland. nationalist far-right resurgency amongst disaffected white youth in the Netherlands – in spite of decades of liberal policies. its one hell of a conundrum.
You mean “LONSDALE” as in sweatshirts now favoured by German skinheads because if they open their jackets the letters “lo-NSDA-le” appear missing the “P” ?
rick -> yes. exactly.
John
“It was always sensible for freedom of expression to be exercised with respect for religious belief.”
This is the big problem, respect and tolerance for something where there is no evidence to support the tenants of the religion.
All religions are thus vacuous, they become ideology’s when given respect and tolerance. All human beings are capable of killing each other, all they need to spur them on is an appropriate ideology. Nazism and Communism were political religions. The holocaust according to some was simply the Nazis doing the Churches work, a 20th century extension of the Holy Inquisition.
This is the big problem, respect and tolerance for something where there is no evidence to support the tenants of the religion.
All religions are thus vacuous
You miss the point. There are boundaries in society which is why child pornography is prohibited; why we do not show corpses on TV News whereas in Germany they do……….societal values have constraints.
The way in which Christianity is denigrated in Great Britain by homosexual artists like Gilbert & George or the BBC is what makes Muslims frightened of going down the same route and seeing the fate of the Church of England makes them anxious.
This country has the strictest libel laws on earth; if that is not a restriction on “free expression” what is ?
Had these cartoons simply been an attack on Islam and Mohammed they would have been beyond the pale, but they were a depiction of the perception of Islam caused by the Islamofascists and cartoons are not portraits but exaggerations for effect.
The three additional cartoons manufactured by Laban are the crux of the matter since they are crude and pointless.There is no point in creating mindless offence – that was the issue in the “OZ” trial with Marty Feldman.
There is a good reason to respect religious icons in the same way we used to respect privacy, childhood innocence and not debase ourselves to the crude commercial instincts which make life so tawdry today.
There are some people who use credit cards to watch pictures of sexualised children and they are punished because society protects certain areas of life from crude exploitation.
I do not believe Muslims are right in the case of the 12 Danish cartoons, but I do not think they are wrong to seek to protect what they regard as virtuous from blatant obscenity – I just wish the Church of England were as keen to uphold the sanctity of the Christian Faith and not seek to debase it or devalue it with trendy liberalism which is emptying the churches.
Rick,
Paedophilia is the abuse of children who cannot consent to these actions. That’s why CP is banned, but porn is fine.
There’s no reason to respect religious icons. Respect is earned not given.
There is point in creating stuff that may offend, the creator thought it worthwhile.
If any thing should be banned (and they shouldn’t) the first two books to ban should be the koran and the bible.
There’s no reason to respect religious icons. Respect is earned not given.
So I should show no respect to you and treat you like trash until you give me good reason to respect you ?
There is point in creating stuff that may offend, the creator thought it worthwhile.
Thus the BBC can use its discretion in what it propagates and this Blog should close down
Rick & Rob
Stuff that may offend.
In the Arab world the “Protocols of Zion” are largely accepted as literal truth. They appear in the Hamas mission statement. They can be freely purchased as can Arabic translations of Mien Kampf.
Many Arabs idolise Hitler, their only regret is that he did not finish what he started.
I hate to upset Rick, but in passing, Hitler was not excommunicated by the Catholic Church
I hate to upset Rick, but in passing, Hitler was not excommunicated by the Catholic Church
but both Henry VIII and Martin Luther were so that’s all right then. Have you been excommunicated Sarge ? Does it hurt ?
The Protocols were drawn up by the Okhrana, the Tsarist Secret Police.
Have you purchased them ? Do you find them edifying ?
So there are Arabs that idolise Hitler. Shocking ! There are Europeans that feel the same way. When France occupied Germany in 1923 it did so with Moroccan troops – the children they fathered were hunted down by the new German Chancellor and exterminated – they have graves in Wiesbaden I believe.
Rick
I’m not Catholic so I can’t be excommunicated. I’m not Jewish so I am still a cavalier not a roundhead, I haven’t been shnickled. I have been baptised and confirmed. My three children baptised in the c of e. I was a choirboy and a server. My grandparents were baptist, my parents c of e and my wifes family catholic. elsewhere in this blog i recount attending mass but not taking communion and on leaving the church being surrounded by beggars orphans street urchins guttersnipe’s the starving the deformed the sick the needy the uncared for who sleep in the open air. The congregation ignores them because to acknowledge them would mean they would have to do something about it. When you shop in Latin America you are followed around in the shop by beggers pleading for bread.
Rick
I do know the Protocols of Zion are fake, the point is the Arab world believes it is true.
I do know the Protocols of Zion are fake, the point is the Arab world believes it is true.
Not so………….the Arab world uses them……….
Wow – so much anti-Muslim sentiment here. Has anyone heard of the term ‘brainwashed’? Is there any difference here to the Nazi propaganda against the Jews prior to WWII? Shame on you all – get a life and grow up.