, so I won’t comment too much about the BBC’s no attention spared coverage of the latest Abu Graib photos. David Vance has put it very nicely (with tongue in cheek):
‘never before in the field of human conflict, has so much cruelty been inflicted on so many by so few, right? (Although nobody died or was even seriously injured that we know of but HEY, it’s a cool story, right?)’
Of course the BBC’s point was always that Abu Graib indicated some kind of systematic abuse, which extended upwards to the top. The allegation of systematic abuse was the holy grail for Abu Graib enthusiasts, and the only justification for returning (ghoulishly) to the images again and again. Wikipedia’s account of the conclusions of investigations is pretty good: ‘Guards invented their own rules and supervisors approved of their actions. Personnel lost track of prisoners, did not count their prisoners, and kept no records regarding dozens of escapes. The facility held too many inmates and supplied too few guards. Training of those on guard was insufficient, and superiors neglected to visit the facilities in person. Top military personnel disagreed on whether military police or military intelligence should be in charge. Prisoner treatment varied between shifts and between compounds.’
A balls-up, not an evil plot.
David Vance goes on to say that ‘here’s the thing, when I want to go and check out the infamous “Danish” Cartoons that have already led Muslims to riot and kill, for some odd reason they are not to be found’
I would make little distinction between the images from Abu Graib and the cartoons: both are open to wide interpretation; photos may often not yield facts, while cartoons do not necessarily yield fiction. The BBC’s coy descriptions of the Abu Graib pictures (they ‘seem to show’ etc) have come despite the fact that they’ve alternated the photos they describe on the front page of BBC News online all day, from dawn to dusk- and still going.
But if I wanted to talk about double standards in showing pictures I wouldn’t be short of examples. One of the best might be the consistent images of cruel murder which emanate from Iran, time after time ignored by the Beeb; never rotated at the top of the front page; a systematised process of violence, often against innocents.
For example, I think all will agree, this is worse than Abu Graib; not too much room for interpretation in this one.
Let me see if I get this.
They don’t publish the cartoons because it might make Muslims angry – and because seeing the cartoons is supposedly unnecessary to relating the story.
They do publish Abu G pictures because it might make Muslims angry (at America) – and they are somehow necessary to describe the story.
Difference: one makes Muslims out to be perpetrators, the other victims.
The BBC’s (and the MSM’s) claims that it shows the photos in the interest of informing it’s viewers ring pretty hollow after it’s weaselling over the cartoons.
Wasn’t it said that “responsable” editors would avoid showing the cartoons so as not to help tempers escalate? That same argument could be used for the Abu Ghraib photos.
They can’t even be consistent – that’s what bugs me most.
Deepdiver
Sorry for repeating what Flying Giraffe said – his comment hadn’t uploaded when I opened haloscan.
Anyway, what I said still stands:-)
Deepdiver
three “trouble makers” hung in iran
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5669
15 year old sentenced to hang
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5781
Political prisoner executed:
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5754
this stuff is happening NOW – today – in the real world.
And yet the bbc has been running with “abu ghraib” ALL FRIGGIN DAY NOW – its a two year old story. the pentagon has dealt with it and imprisoned the people responsibe.
they even provide a gallery with the warning
“WARNING: Some readers may find the following images distressing or offensive.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4716280.stm
why the hell didnt they do that with the Danish cartoons, with a warning “may offend Muslim sensibilities”?
the hypocrisy and gall of the BBC is breath-taking.
i wonder if they’ll report this?
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,18165341%255E1702,00.html
Iraq government has confirmed to Danish government that it wants Danish troops to stay.
The BBC and the mainstream media are quite happy to show the photos from Abu Ghraib and elsewhere. The same mainstream media will not show the cartoons for one simple reason.
If they publish the cartoons, they will face violent reprisals from angry Muslims.
If they publish the photos of prison abuse, other people will face violent reprisals from angry Muslims.
Can you spot the difference?
“Can you spot the difference?”
yeah – its called cowardice.
have the bbc mentioned the attack on the BRITISH embassy in Tehran yet?
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-02-14T144040Z_01_L14722866_RTRUKOC_0_UK-RELIGION-CARTOONS-IRAN.xml
hmmm.. its not on here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/default.stm
oh. now the bbc doesnt want to upset the iranians now, eh?
BBC in full-on “bash israel” mode
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4715570.stm
note the headline
“Disabled Jenin man shot by troops”
sounds terrible doesnt it – those bad Israels are now shooting a disabled muslims!!
however, if you read on:
Mujahid al-Simadi, 20, was shot through the chest during a raid to arrest militants. (or in normal speak, terrorists)
The Israeli military said its soldiers had seen a “suspect armed with a weapon who was threatening them”.
Local residents said Mujahid al-Simadi had gone up to the troops with a toy gun and shouted that they should leave the village.
————————
HANG ON..
disabled guy thinks is OK to go up to a house full of Israeli soldiers in the middle of an anti-terrorist raid and waves a toy gun around???
now stand back – what would you think would happen to you if you went up to a house full of SAS soldiers waving a toy gun, whilst they were in the middle of an anti-terror raid?
would you survive? probably not.
OT
Net firms criticised over China
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4699242.stm
Of course the BBC never censors its news at the request of the Chinese communist government…..does it?
BBC tones down news on China website
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/23baeac4-94d9-11da-9f39-0000779e2340.html
The ‘self censored’ commie friendly BBC China News site.
BBC News China
http://www.bbc.co.uk/china/
“The ‘self censored’ commie friendly BBC China News site.”
but isnt the normal bbc news site commie friendly anyway?
I think the motive is prety obvious.
It takes the heat of the Media and Muslim war over the cartoons…..
The BBC is trying to make a target out of our troops, so that the heat about the cartoons row, muslims and Western media switches to hate for our troops…….
The BBC are vile, blood soaked sleeze merchants…..every bit as bad as Nazi propaganda……
BTW. STILL No description of the criminal who shot the Woman Copper…..Even though the family has aked for anyone with information to come forward”……though nobody knows what to look for, Black, White, Tall, thin, short, fat???….I wonder why no description has been forth coming??
carl -> its political correctness.
there’s no description on the Notts “so politically correct that we give out green ribbons the day after 7/7 to show our sympathy to Muslims” police force website either.
the crazy thing about this is that there was a witness – the other copper who was with the WPC at the time.
that means that they actually HAVE a description but are sitting on it.
another way though to look at is that it might possibly, just possibly , be a MI5 sleeper agent.
ochams razor says it PC nuttiness written large though.
Just a thought … there is this great 70 year old quote, I forget by whom, that goes something like this:
The dark cloud of fascism is always coming down on the United States, but somehow only falls in Europe.
So true today as it ever was. I think Abu Ghraib coverage warms the belly of those wanting to feast on Anti-American meals, and the BBC is so willing to be the 5 star chef.
Speaking of which, I came across this new site that might be of interest:
makethenewsbetter.com
I have just come back from the BBCs hotbed of represion and extream racism, Israel.
These are just some quick observations.
Their is compleat freedom of the media.
No speed cameras.
You can smoke anywhere.
People still feel safe to hitch-hike,and pick people up.
People are friendly and kind, especialy to children.
Muslims are prosperous,free,and are very happy to be citizens of the country.
You feel safe from being mugged or robbed.
Old and sick people are very well looked after by the state.
The educational standard of its people, is very high.
The roads are very good, and new ones are being constantly built.
No time or cost is spared to protect its people.
The goverment likes its own people and treats them with respect and inteligence.
It is a properly functioning democracy.
It is a shame that not one of these things now apply to Britain. A heart breaking, crying shame. What makes the constant streem of dishonest vile abuse eminating from the BBC, not just bad, but also sad. Is that Israel is the sort of country that most people, even people at the BBC,would like more than this one. The self distructive and negative force that is modern day leftist thinking, is trying to distroy the very sociaty that most of them would wish to create. Very strange.
“I think the motive is prety obvious.
It takes the heat of the Media and Muslim war over the cartoons…..
The BBC is trying to make a target out of our troops, so that the heat about the cartoons row, muslims and Western media switches to hate for our troops…….”
Take it easy chaps. The BBC has always had an agenda when it comes to the Iraq war, but I don’t think it’s quite that bad.
We have now adopted a similar possition to smoking, as Saudi-Arabia has to drinking. Although the punishment is not as harsh. £4000 is much more of a punishment than you get for robbing someone here. This countries right to lecture any other place on how to behave, has disapeared up TBs back-side. Can we look forward to police raids on suspected group smokers. What does the goverment plan on doing when private clubs become private homes being used by guests. Arrest everyone, for smoking something that they make 70% of the profit on. I think I might become a Muslim at least what they do makes sense to them. And I know god never had an opinion on smoking. Cannibis has been ilegal for I think 40 years. We now have the highest use of it in History. Pot smokers went underground became trendy, and formed a new sub-culture. A lott of them are now running the goverment. So you can see what damage prohibition can do.
I’m a smoker and I still remember the days when you could smoke on the underground and the top deck of a double-decker bus. I accept that smoking is bad for you and it’s also bad for passive smokers around you (or so they say) but I’m not going to enjoy my pint without a fag. Why not close down pubs altogether? I mean drinking is bad for your health as well – as is listening to / watching the BBC…
Nanny State UK? I’d certainly say so and I won’t be coming over there as often as I have in the past. Well, that’s probably good for my health considering the likelihood of being a target for plumbers.
I really cant wait until about 10 years from now, to look back on the BBC’s coverage of the Iraq war and the US in general. It’s such cartoonish, mindless schlock anymore that will only be magnified by passage of time.
On the upside, if you can put it that way, is that much of the bloom is already off of the Beeb’s rose. Thanks to websites like this, their reputation as honest brokers of information has been exposed as less than accurate.
Archduke et al:
I just had a subversive moment and checked if the bbc.eu domain was still available and, yes, it is.
I thought about registering it but I don’t have the time to set up a blog so I thought maybe one of you guys would like to register it…
The Council of Europe has just published 200 pages of human rights abuse by France. Where, you might ask, is the BBC?
The report documents widespread police brutality, chronically overcrowded prisons “at the edge of human dignity,” the jailing of children with adults, an arbitrary and capricious immigration and deportation policy…and on and on and on.
In short, concludes the report, the French way is “disastrous and at odds with the requirements of modern society.” Some detail here.
According to this EU press release, the report is supposed to be downloadable right now — but the official link doesn’t work. How very EU.
All that remains is to watch the BBC/Grauniad axis bury the story fast. Brace for more pix of Abu Ghraib and exhaustive coverage of Cheney’s hunting accident.
MSM claim that publishing the Muhammad cartoons would inflame Muslim anger and result in needless death and destruction. But they are quite happy to publish explict photos of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib. Do you know why?
Because the former would direct Muslim anger at MSM while the latter directs Muslim anger at Bush and America, that’s why.
Just a comment. I understand the reason for the link, but you might like to think twice before directing people to that appalling photo of the poor girl publicly executed in Iran. I found it genuinely upsetting – a horrible, horrible image which I really think we don’t need to see. Viewing it, I think, probably does tend to desensitize. (And I hope you aren’t suggesting that the BBC might want to distribute it universally.)
What a terrible place Iran must be.
Wow! Those BBC revelations about Dick Cheney have just blown me away. Well now we know – this morning the Today programme revealed that Cheney “pulled the trigger”. The scandal!
All together now:-
Cheney lied!!!
Quail hunters died!!!
(well not quite but it does illustrate a wider truth or something).
We are also informed that Cheney has been damaged politically and psychologically. Great insight, Beeb. Or just pointless non-news? Still, anything to make the Bush administration look bad will do.
If Muslims have such a short fuse shouldn’t there be a government health warning or something ? I mean what was it the US Supreme Court said about a “clear and present danger” ?
Michael Taylor
… a horrible, horrible image which I really think we don’t need to see …
Well how the hell do you think the true nature of the islamic theocracy will become known without showing the image? It happened, she actually was murdered by the iranian islamic state for being female and defending herself. Life, islamic style. Now there are no limits, we know that. The BBC will show just about anything as long as it casts People Like Us in a bad light. That is all that informs their news policy.
OT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4718328.stm
what i simply dont understand, is why stupid media owners are publishing such inflamatory photos and images, at a time of already heightened tension. Its really dumb.
Surely the media should be more responsible and not show the images of british soldiers and iraqis fighting?
THe british media doesnt show Cartoons because it will ignite tension, so why cant it do the same when it comes to british soldiers?
I have the feeling that yet again, News of The WOrld, owned by Mr Murdoch, is stirring up something.
For whatever reason, but it is yet again convenient that his publishing organisation is responsible.
I think the question we have to ask is, how many more videos does he have?
And will he continue to release such images to try and get more out of western governments?
DumbJon (pbuh) in a post about yet another BBC omission.
Just a quick point – the 17-year-old Iranian girl has not (to my knowledge) yet been executed. The photo on the website is quite an old one; I’ve seen it in various places over the last few years. Not that this makes any difference to the fate of the poor girl in question. Her name is Nazanin, according to the FaithFreedom website.
that house of dumb post is excellent.
From the report on France:
“Indeed, I could not escape the impression that there was some discrepancy between theory and practice.
4. Moreover, although France has strong laws in this area, my visit did prompt me to raise a number of problems. However, before discussing the chief ones I noted, I should like to make one general comment. Wherever I went, I noted that the full application of the law was occasionally obstructed by habit. Repeatedly, I heard: “we’ve always done it like that”, “it’s been like that for years” or “it takes time to make changes”. This is by no means a trivial matter, since it raises a clear question concerning the extent to which human rights are respected and practised. I am not saying that the French authorities are blind to the problems. On the contrary, as I said earlier, those problems are not new, and policy-makers, both national and local, are generally familiar with them.
5. However, I do have the impression that France does not always give itself the resources it needs to operate a relatively full legal arsenal, providing a high level of human rights protection. In some areas, there seems to be a gap • sometimes a very wide one • between law and practice. This general comment applies throughout this report, which discusses France’s main shortcomings in human rights protection and the major challenges facing it today. ”
Hmm – can we ask Cherie Baby to comment?
Report here:
http://www.coe.int/T/E/Commissioner_H.R/Communication_Unit/CommDH%282006%292_E.doc
BBC bosses are ready to AXE a £1million episode of hit drama Spooks in which an al-Qaeda terrorist is shot dead — in case it upsets Muslims.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006070635,00.html
Spooks in which an al-Qaeda terrorist is shot dead — in case it upsets
Let him be resurrected then – that should satisfy them
John Simpson gets thoroughly fisked yet again. This time by Rottweiller Puppy:
http://rottypup.com/?p=507
woof woof.
Why should Muslims get upset by a terrorist getting shot?
I thought the BBC said that Muslims don’t support terrorism?
Which one is it BBC?
Whoever decides what is ‘news’ within the BBC is the Gramscian quarter-back. Who is he/she or who are they? Does anyone have the names of the person(s) who decide that cartoons which drive frenzied people into a frenzy shall not be published yet other footage implicating our troops is broadcast? Who call the shots in the BBC?
Pity the smoking debate, has not inspired you potential Nazis out there to comment much. If you think this is a good idear, please feel free to say why. Seems to me that being “bad for your health” could be used now as a pretext to ban anything the goverment thinks will win a few votes, placate the nasties in their party, or threaten big business with to obtain larger bribes. And of cause the cash from fines will come in handy to finance bigger bribes to developement funds in marginal constituancies.
How much more of this are you prepared to take? A lott it seems.
This leason has not been lost on DC so get used to it.
A top Labour MP was seen on the BBC after the Scotish By-election defeat making the vailed threat that ” If there was not a Labour goverment elected at the next election Scotland would lose most of its development grants/bribes given to them only because of a Labour goverment.”
Sounds like a threat to me, although no one on “Politics Today” commented on this. Not even the Tory.
Now we all know that both parties have been guilty of this in the past We know this counterproductive economic policy is wrong and is also highly corruptable. It is to the their terminal shame that the BBC takes this sort of thing only seriously when Tories are in power. Obviously the Tory bribes and threats were not substantial enough.
My god, you did not think all this extra pulic money was being spent on improving public services did you? Some people have at lott of growing up to do.
i’m dead against the smoking ban. mainly because i think that it should be up to the market to decide
e.g. weatherspoons were going non-smoking anyway, law or no law.
secondly, and more importantly, the law is skewed towards the landlord enforcing the law – £2500 fine for him – but only £50 fine for a punter.
so, whats a landlord going to do when the Millwall supporters club turn up for a few pre-match drinks?
tell the tatooed mass of BNP supporting yobs to stub out their ciggies? doubtful.
e Scotish By-election defeat making the vailed threat that ” If
Now Gary Powell when you’rew not busy insulting people you could turn to Dictionary……………
then you would see that “veiled threat” is easy to remember because a “veil” is what a woman wears to cover her face……….
But “Vail” is what links with “Aspen” as a Colorado ski resort which the Bass Brothers put together.
So you can stop snide remarks about “potential Nazis” and start using the English language with more precision and maybe you can obsess about party politics with a clear conscience
Rick
This is not an English exam paper, and I am not, and do not claim to be an interlectual or even well educated. But if there was something that you did not understand please say so or take extra English leasons yourself. Other wise stick your patronising attitude up your ass. If the cap fitts Mr potential Nazi I suggest you honestly wear it.
By the way Albert Einstein scored so badly in his German Exam his teachers believed he was educationaly sub-normal. Michael Faraday left school at 13 not being able to write his own name.
Rick/camp commendant
It would be good for you both to remember it was working class Tories like me that kept the Conservative goverment in power for 18 years. It is our defection that is keeping these current middle class interlectual nutters in free limos. I make things for my living, I did not get rich by worrying about silly details, or allow myself to be marginalised by snobby fools.
Gary Powell
Your English is your own matter, but:
It is our defection that is keeping these current middle class interlectual nutters in free limos.
“Cough!”
“Splutter!”
Thanks pal. Thanks very fucking much. Just what exactly does it take for people like you to see the devastation wreaked on our country by the tyrant in Downing Street? You’re happy with ever higher taxes? So many freedoms proscribed by law that we hardly have any left? You’re happy with the Lagislative and Regulatory Bill, which if enacted will allow wny minister to amend or repreal any existing statute or pass any new law, all by order alone with no recourse to Parliament? Did you know that’s in Parliament right now? Are you aware of just how close we are to a dictatorship in our country? Just how many lies must Blair and his minions tell before you finally realise what a slimy couple we have in Number 10?
Do us all a favour at the next election and stay indoors.
It would be good for you both to remember it was working class Tories like me that kept the Conservative goverment in power for 18 years.
Shame on you !!!
Maybe you should read the dictionary and
overcome your atavistic primitivism
By the way Albert Einstein scored so badly in his German Exam his teachers believed he was educationaly sub-normal. Michael Faraday left school at 13 not being able to write his own name.
Gary Powell | 16.02.06 – 7:50 pm | #
You are ignorant and arrogantly so Gary Powell. You are lazy and pig ignorant – there is no excuse for your poor spelling, none whatsoever, it is sheer incompetence.
This is not an English exam paper
Oh yes it is !
Every time you write it is an exam paper. Every time you add or substract, multiply or divide it is an exam paper.
Everyone around you is marking you up or down. Remember it.
Devastation, tyrants, dictatorship, Gramsci (probably)…..
If the more ideologically inclined right wing stopped ranting on in such ludicrous fashion, had a think about why they got binned by the electorate in the first place and attepted to adapt their ideology where it manifestly doesn’t gel with reality – rather than making like ostriches – they’d have been back in power by now and this increasingly bad (but not devastating, tyrannical or dictatorial) government would be history.
Instead they’ve got David Cameron. Hmmmm.
“rather than making like ostriches – they’d have been back in power by now ”
Indeed – the Tories flip-flopping over Iraq was an embarassment, with their pathetic “oh we supported the invasion because of WMDs – and no theres no WMDs we’re now against the invasion”.
Even more embarassing was Karl Rove’s banning of the Tories from the White House.
The party of Winston Churchill – banned from our closest allie and friend. Incredible. (though thankfully that ban is now over)
Cockney: You are not often right but you are wrong again.
Archduke: You are wrong here as well.
I think Michael Howard’s point about Iraq was that we wouldn’t have supported the war if we had known at the time that Blair was lying through his teeth about WMD and 45 minutes to destruction. That is not flip-flopping in the mindless sense you imply.
In any case, it ought to be clear to posters on this blog that whatever the Conservatives do is wrong according to the beeb. We are continuously struggling against a monolithic anti-capitalist PR firm.
Our problem started with pulling out of the ERM – an event frequently cited to our disadvantage. Of course, they never mention that all the other Parties were more in favour of joining than we were – Thatcher was blackmailed into joining against her better judgement by Lawson/Howe.
Conservative sleaze is continally regurgitated and Labour sleaze has been ignored.
Look at the contrast between Mandelson and Hamilton. Mandelson got away with fraudulently completing a mortgage application form, an offence for which perpetrators can be jailed. Hamilton did not accept brown envelopes but the beeb and Grauniad conspired to make everyone believe he did. Have a look at:
http://www.guardianlies.com/Section%204/page7.html
Rightwingness is a natural state of people. Capitalism goes with the grain of human nature. Look at how quickly peole drop communism and socialism to adopt free market philosophies if they are allowed to do so. The beeb and MSM fights this every step of the way.
gordon-bennett – everyone and his dog knew that the WMD thing was cover story to justify toppling Saddam. Howard was just political point scoring over the liberation of millions of people from a fascist thug. Sorry mate, but i found it utterly pathetic and disengenious.
but thats by the by and in the past- now where’s that Tory party membership form…
Cockney
You voted for this government and are in no position to hand out lectures to anyone. Back into your box.
If you believe that this government is neither tyrranical nor dictatorial then you are unaware of the Civil Contingencies Act and Legislative and Regulatory Bill, currently in Parliament. You can read about the Bill here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2040625,00.html
For as long as the Conservative, Labour and Liberal parties have existed it is the Tories who have been by far the most successful. Their time in office far outstrips the other two. Yet it’s only when they are not ‘idealogically inclined’ that they lose their way and pay for it electorally. Labour and the Liberals only do well when the Tories are weak. They are not in office now because of weakness which began in 1992 when Major beat Kinnock. They haven’t been a serious, committed and ‘idealogically inclined’ party since then.