Says the link to this BBC story. It’s currently the main story on their ‘In Depth’ page.
Mental image of another poor chap in a wheelchair, or hobbling along with the aid of a stick.
The story ? “A young Palestinian man with learning disabilities has been shot dead by Israeli troops near the West Bank town of Jenin, Palestinian officials said. Local residents said Mujahid al-Simadi had gone up to the troops with a toy gun and shouted that they should leave the village. He was among a number of children who had surrounded a house occupied by Israeli soldiers and began to throw stones, Palestinian security sources said. The soldiers opened fire from the house and Mujahid al-Simadi hit in the chest and died immediately, they said.”
Two things here. Firstly the characteristation of someone with ‘learning difficulties’ as ‘disabled’, no matter what disability benefits such a person may be entitled to in the UK, is essentially dishonest. To the vast majority of BBC news viewers, ‘disabled’ implies a physical disability. The prisons of the UK are full of people with learning difficulties, but the BBC have not yet taken to describing them as ‘disabled prisoners’. Secondly, the source of the information on his disabled status is apparently ‘Palestinian officials said’. Where are the quotes that traditionally go round such an assertion ?
Strange. I heard what seemed like an important (and depressing) story on the news yesterday, but I can’t find this story on the BBC website yet. “BAGHDAD — The U.S. military has stumbled across the first evidence of a death squad within Iraq’s Interior Ministry after the detention last month of 22 men wearing police commando uniforms who were about to shoot a Sunni man, according to the American general overseeing the training of Iraqi police. The men turned out not to be police commandos but were employed by the Ministry of Interior as highway patrolmen, according to Maj. Gen. Joseph Peterson, who commands the civilian police training teams in Iraq. “We have found one of the death squads,” he said. “They are a part of the police force of Iraq.”
The current Middle East page features … guess what ?. If anyone finds the police story on the BBC, could they let us know via the comments ?
UPDATE – the police story has arrived – just before midday. Thanks to commenter Archduke for the spot. They’ve given it third spot on the Middle East page, relegating the disabled Jenin man to the top of the ‘More from Middle East’ section. Of course, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are still numbers one and two. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Bryan
You quote lots of worthy causes – but I don’t see how this makes someone who doesn’t actively support those causes an anti semite.
As I’ve said before I accept there will be some who use their support of the Palestinians as a way disguising their anti semitism. But the people who run, subscribe and support Searchlight would most likely support the Palestinians as well as being anti fascist. How is this explained?
It is a smokescreeen to claim that supporting the Palestinians means that you must be anti semitic.
A not disimilar smokescreen to the one that the left sometimes use in saying that anyone who questions extremism in Islam is bigotted. It is perfectly valid to question Muslim extremism – all religious extremism should be questioned. But when it descends into generalisations about ALL people of a particular faith it becomes bigotry.
Simple, no?
Pete London
Please tell me where you got the slightest imprestion that I have ever or would ever vote anything but Conservative. Apart from being a card carrying payed up member and constituancy activist, I have voted Tory in every general and by-election since 1979. Which was the first I was old enough to vote in. Only a fool would pick arguments with people that agree with, pity you seem to be one of them.
Lurker: Read “Why I am not a muslim” by Ibn Warraq if you want to learn more about the “religion of peace”.
I have just looked up liberal in the dictionary. Perhaps some of you should stop useing it just to check your spelling. Please stop calling this goverment Liberal left. There is nothing liberal about them. Liberal is an American media term used to mean “not Republican” It does not therefore mean not Conservative. The Conservative Party always had a Libertarian base, weather or not you understand what it means. So does the Republican Party. Believe the BBC or not.
A Luker wrote –
Well here’s a few examples:
http://www.searchlightmagazine.c…emplate&story=6
http://www.socialistunitynetwork…s/ tesconazi.htm
http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/ind…on=news&art=347
http://www.anl.org.uk/09-britain…itain- nazis.htm
All of the above organisations are liberal left organisations. Searchlight in particular has strong links with trade unions and many of the plethora of socialist groups.”
You’ve got to be kidding me? All the above are just two groups, who actually amount to no more than a handful of people with different websites.
Searchlight and StopTheBNP are the same group, run by Gerry Gabel, a self-confessed Zionist who has convictions for burglary. He so liberal infact that his son is serving in the Israeli army, helping to suppress the Intifada.
The ANL, basically, no longer exist. They also had a falling out with Gabel, over his Zionist views.
Socialist Unity are joke, probably the least liberal of any “liberal” organisation you could possibly find, now that they’ve craweld into bed with sexist, homophobic, anti-semetic, bigoted Islamofacists like Hizb ut Tahir.
Basically a bunch of weirdos an a few websites.
A lurker
I read your comment carefully. You seem to not understand a basic paradox. As far as the Palistian leadership have always being concerned, the very exsistance of Israel or any Israeli goverment is an act of occupation which they have never accepted. So nothing the Israelis could have ever done would have made any difference. Unless they all packed up and went home. As we are now having a similar problem with Muslims born here I think we should all have learn something, even Lefties. It is not commonly known (if you get your infomation from the BBC)that there are many Palistian Israeli citizens, and none of them to my knowledge have ever blown themselves up on their own buses. In fact on my recent visit there I met 3 palistinian taxi drivers and a restaurant owner. All of which were not just happy but proud and thankfull to be Israeli citizens.
That bit of real truthfull international reporting, just cost you nothing. BBC lies costs you over £100 per year, or you go to jail.
Sara W
Yes.Is it not the stangest thing of all that The Anti-Nazi Leage is and is discribed as a left wing organisation. When Nazism and socialism are blood brothers. It might explain why the left try so hard not to show their true racist believes just to throw the people of the smell. It does not take much to fool the BBC which has had not to many problems fooling the public. After all they have a £4,500,000,000 budget to do it with.
Bryan
That really was the best thing I have ever read on this site. So good I read it 6 times.
A Lurker
Have you ever thought even for one moment that you are a typical BBC brian washed individual. Which is why you are now so confused. The Nazis were and are National Socialists. If you do not believe me look at a real history book and not the National Socialists personal TV channel.
Gary Powell
Reference – Ed Thomas’ post below this one which begins “I might get angry …” You posted on the thread at 16.02.06 – 7:50 pm You said there that you voted Tory before defecting. Either that or you didn’t make yourself clear.
A Lurker:
I have posted this before but the Nazis said in their 1933 manifesto not only “we are socialist” but also “and mortal enemies of the capitalist system”.
Even if you dont accept as proof of left wingery the first quote, after all anyone can call themselves anything, you cannot deny the clarity of the second quote.
If the BNP are neo-Nazi they are therefore left wing.
See also this site:
http://www.tfp.org/what_we_think/fascism.html
It would be as well if you were less deprecatory and arrogant since you clearly dont have a clue.
gordon-bennet,
I think you’ll find this is the complete quote:
“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”
-Adolf Hitler
apologies for the missing “t”, mr bennett
Gary Powell,
Thanks for your supportive comment. I was trying to paint a convincing enough picture for A Lurker. But he/she took predictable refuge in logic. Granted, logically nobody can claim that the left’s avoidance of causes worldwide to concentrate on the Palestinians is evidence of anti-Semitism, but racist hatred is not based on logic. And anyone trying to get to the truth here should at least ask himself why there is this obsession with the Palestinians.
There are many far more worthy causes on this planet and many far more worthy recipients of benevolent international aid and moral support. In fact, it seems that the Palestinians can do no wrong. Right through the worst of the terror attacks on Israeli civilians during the second intifada, the ‘international community’ was unswerving in its backing, financial and otherwise, of the Palestinians.
Now that Hamas is in power, we already see that same international community looking for loopholes in order to still maintain its support for the Palestinians. Russia and Turkey have already embraced Hamas.
Anyone who doesn’t realise that support for the Palestinians equals support for the destruction of Israel is terminally naïve. The Palestinians have never deviated from that declared aim. Not under Arafat and certainly not now that they have chosen Hamas to lead them.
The Anti-Nazi Leage is and is discribed as a left wing organisation
It is just another wrapper for the Socialist Workers’ Party – just like “Respect”, and if you look at Wikipedia you find that :
The Anti-Nazi League (ANL) was an organisation set up in 1977 to oppose the rise of far-right groups in Britain. It was at its height between 1977 and 1981.
Its founder members include Peter Hain (a former Young Liberal leader; then the communications officer of the postal workers’ union UCW, more recently a prominent Labour MP), Ernie Roberts (deputy general secretary of the engineering union AUEW) and Paul Holborow (of the Socialist Workers Party (SWP))………………In 2005 the ANL’s National Organiser is Weyman Bennett, who is a member of the Central Committee of the Socialist Workers Party. Its previous National Organiser was Julie Waterson who is also a member of the Socialist Workers Party and a former member of the National Executive of the Socialist Alliance.
Dozens of Labour Party MPs are members of the ANL and many like Peter Hain have been members for many years. The ANL has close links with many Trade Unions, many of which have affiliated with it.
Or why the Christian left pushes for disinvestment from Israel?
That is “Christian” as in adjective rather than “Christian” as in noun ?
Rick,
Neither, I guess. In fact, I should have written “Christian” left since there is nothing Christian about the left in its drive to push an embattled Israel into more dire straits.
J.G.
Apart from the obvious bias, doesn’t withholding the identikit picture prevent people spotting the person the police are after?
Probably, but in this case the victims are only Jews, whom the BBC evidently figures have it coming. So who cares?
Tried to get on Any Answers today but failed.
I only wanted to say that in view of the fact that the CoE’s decision to disinvest in Caterpillar is seen as pro-Pal and anti-Israel it is ironic that Christians are persecuted in Palestine (and the rest of the muslim world) but left alone in Israel.
Obviously, I am guilty of glorifying Israel and must not be allowed on the air.
Tried to get on Any Answers today but failed.
I think you have to pre-book through a lobby group to get on air…………did you hear that forthright lady (who was not going to let Dimbleby shake her) who told it as it is ? She was unwavering and Dimbleby had to come out and expose himself and his views – but she was resolute
“You seem to forget that the BNP, being neo Nazi, are themselves left wing so the left wing groups are fighting amongst themselves.”
if you believe that , then you believe in the pink unicorn at the end of my garden. you seem to have no concept that the right can have an extreme wing.
Archduke – so what defines right? Nationalism?
What defines left? If it is state control of “the commanding heights of the economy” or the creation of worker/owner enterprises (soviets?), then the BNP qualifies.
any answers
its gitmo again.
1st caller – english – wants gitmo closed
2nd caller – muslim – wants gitmo closed. rant rant rant rant.
dimblebey raises the “enemy combatant” angle. but never makes the comparision with German POWs in WW2
3rd caller – english lady. “previous calls were an advert for Al Qaeda”…
this lady makes the German POW comparision…
dimbelbey “so called war -its not a winnable war”
english lady argues back – “i lived through the last war”
“there isnt any place for a court – these are prisoners of war. its as straight forward as that. some people are anti-american”
dimbelbey splutters and is thoroughly fisked.
4th caller – anti gitmo. anti iraq war. rant rant rant.
so there you have it – 75 per cent anti-gitmo 25 percent pro gitmo, according to the BBC
rick:
Yes, I was impressed and heartened by that lady. She wasn’t going to take any of JD’s pro-Pal apologist crap.
archduke:
When I made my arguments I quoted chapter and verse in support. If I made my case badly or my position is flawed then attack the arguments not the man.
I dont like your method of argument by insult.
What I am saying is that the Nazis were left wing and if the BNP are neo-Nazis then they are left wing also. It’s that simple really.
“Archduke – so what defines right? Nationalism?”
yes. most definitely.
“What defines left? If it is state control of “the commanding heights of the economy” or the creation of worker/owner enterprises (soviets?), then the BNP qualifies.”
the left has no nationalism – “workers of the world unite” – but uses it when it suits them e.g. “Great Patriotic War”
thats an important difference.
you simply cannot lump the extreme right in with the likes of the communists, as they as bitterly opposed to each other.
granted – both the extreme right and extreme left want some sort of police state, but to lump the likes of the BNP in with the communist party is disengenious and ignorant of the history of far right v far left conflict.
Rick:
I should have written “pro-Muslim” not “pro-Pal”
“When I made my arguments I quoted chapter and verse in support. If I made my case badly or my position is flawed then attack the arguments not the man.”
yes you are flawed. Hitler made that statement when Ernst Rohm and S.A. were still around. There is not a single reputable author or historian that calls the Nazis “left wing”. for you to ignore the extreme right by calling them “socialists” is just your way of white washing – as in the right can do no wrong. which is complete and utter bollocks.
both extreme left and extreme right are fundenmentally anti-democractic and anti-freedom. and i am bitterly opposed to both.
any answers. another anti-Israel rant.
“palestine is literally being bulldozed out of existence”
oh? so ramallah has been flatened completely so?
no contradiction to that ridiculous statement from dimblebey.
oh god. this is getting seriously biased.
1st caller – anti israel. bulldozers. pro synod
2nd – email – again anti israel
3rd – a caller – again anti-israel. rant rant rant rant.
4th – email – from a Jewish person. he ALSO supports the church of england.
so, we’re at 100 per cent anti-israel.
5th – email – pro israel.
so we’re 80/20
6th – caller. another anti-israel nutter. “totally illegal occupation”
7th – caller – he agrees with the other callers. again anti-israel.
for for fucks sake.
can the israeli ambassador make a complaint to the bbc? please?
8th – finally a caller who agrees with Jonathan Sachs. pro israel.
dimbelbey says we’ve tried to “reflect the balance of emails and calls”
so , out of 8 calls/emails reference, only 2 were pro israel.
maybe that is true. maybe England is packed full of jew hating Hamas supporters?
i seriously doubt it.
And another demo by muslims against free speech … in London, of couse. You couldn’t make it up, could you.
archduke:
I cited the 1933 manifesto and a website.
http://www.tfp.org/what_we_think/fascism.html
If you read the website you will see that no-one could put even a fag paper between Nazis and communists. There is no disputing that communists are on the left so the Nazis are on the left too. The BNP are neo-Nazi so they are alongside the Nazis.
I have never heard the BNP described as neo-capitalist or even neo-con.
In my view, the left/right split is about socialism/capitalism.
Capitalists are right and on the right and socialists are wrong and on the left.
I should have written “pro-Muslim” not “pro-Pal”
gordon-bennett
well you can certainly call him pro-Pal after his personal view mini-series on ITV a couple of years ago.
He showed himself so pro-Pal that I am surprised that ITV showed it, or alternatively, allowed him to continue as a political interviewer/presenter.
(He is of course great pals with the Prince of Wales, thought to have Muslim leanings, wonder whether PoW will ever say too much about Palestine)
“There is no disputing that communists are on the left so the Nazis are on the left too.”
oh for gods sake. i give up…
if you want to be a political idiot, be my guest.
archduke:
That’s selective quotation.
Did you look at the website?
I only ask because I would like you to learn.
‘Capitalists are right and on the right and socialists are wrong and on the left.’
oh, that’s cleared it up then. Nazis are ‘wrong’, so because you believe that socialists are ‘wrong’, Nazis must be on the left.
Anonymous:
OK so you can read but evidently you cannot comprehend.
What you quote is one of my conclusions, not an argument.
The arguments preceded the conclusions. That’s the way I like to do things. Have a look at the arguments and think again.
no-one could put even a fag paper between Nazis and communists.
That’s obvious…..if you are going vote-fishing you cast your nets widely. Look at Blair he went fishing for disillusioned Tories, now Cameron has gone fishing for disillusioned LibDems and is disillusioning more Tories
Hitler was a politician and needed to collect votes – Stalin didn’t need to collect votes coz his party won a coup d’etat in 1918
Too tired to post too much but I am pleased to see that at least my comments have resulted in some (mostly) thoughtful comments as oppose to the abuse that contrary positions inevitably get.
Saying that the Nazi and the the BNP are left wing, is still, in my view plainly ridiculous.
First off just because they called themselves “National Socialists” it doesn’t mean that they were socialists.
As to the BNP I think we would all agree they are an extreme party. So if they are left wing – why do other “extreme” left wing parties like the SWP, Alliance for Workers Liberty, Respect, The Socialist Party, Workers Power and others oppose them so strongly?
I think it is a contrived argument to claim that the Nazi and teh BNP are left wing. It is also a contrived argument to claim that folk on th eleft are racist – some are sure but the majority of the left wing parties oppose bigotry and racism as a major plank of their policies.
Interesting point that Gary Powell makes about the libertarians – it is something that I’ve always found interesting. There are very cross over points with the liberal left and the libertarin right in many areas such as:
– oppostion to ID cards
– freedom of expression (yes many on the left doi believe in freedom of expression)
– legalisation of drugs
the left can be libertarain or authoritarian as can the right
The polical compass questionnaure at the link below illustrates it quite well
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
Most of the criticisms of the left on this forum are of the authoritarian left and fails to regonise that this is not the whole picture on the left.
Many of you criticse Tony Blair for being authoritarian – I don’t disagree with you there. But economically he is further to the right than the “satndard left wing position” – he is much more in favour of the free market than any tradional leftie.
A Lurker
Your real knowledge of left wing politics is only exceaded by your compleat ignorence of conservative politics. Please dont feel alone many on this site are equily confused. As I am of Jewish decent, I have learnt to reconise Nazis, which ever party they say they vote for. I do my best to flush them out even at branch meetings. It is not that hard. Europe has a long history of over powerfull aragant goverments causing terrible problems in the world. The Lady ran this country for 12years being accused of being all types of things by the BBC… remember? You were proberly one of them. Please try to find now the humility to reconise that you have been conned. One day even you might join the only reliable liberal party in this country.
“just because they called themselves “National Socialists” it doesn’t mean that they were socialists.”
haha. I’m afraid it’s a huge clue. The National Socialists were left wing.
Their only innovation over the communists is that they choose a smaller and less economically damaging group to victimise.
p.s. If only the Conservative party were conservative…
A Lurker
The Keiser, Hitler, and Napolian had more than just impotency in common. They wanted to unify Europe under one goverment. For the best part of a 1000 years this countrys basic policy has been to stop this happening, mainly for our own security, but also for our friends.
Which was the reason for the great Thatcher NO NO NO.
The EU always had the potential to become a Nazi oganisation. Churchill knew this but elected to try to get inside as the best and perhaps only way to stop the French or Germans doing it all over again. That is the only reason we joined it.
Hitlers hatered for the jews was mainly inspired by a nead for money to run the war. The extra wealth and patronage gave him imense power. He used the issue of race to his political advantage.
Are you telling me you cant see how all socialist groups do this? They use all minority groups like pawns in a chess game, just for political advantage, and always have. Unfortuatly for you and the BBC the propergander has worked to well. This present goverment has allied itself to so many minority interests that it now can not represent anything that is good for people in general if it wanted to.
In the seventies after 20 years of socialist goverments this country was bancrupt and going down fast. I wanted to never see that again, thanks to people like you I now know I will.
You cant kill nazism by just killing a lott of Germans, and saying you are not a Nazi. Or just by dropping National from the name.
Do you really still think that goverments know how to run your life and econimy better than you and proper business men?
If you dont you arent a socialist, so stop calling yourself one.
Gary Powell – You’re last post was patronising tosh. I have a pretty good idea and some experience of dealing with conservative and left wing politics, both theoretical and practical at a national and a local level.
So you are Jewish and say you have learnt to recognise Nazis – your comment seems to assume that I have no personal experience to draw upon. I am not white (and no I’ve no Muslim ancestry that I’m aware of) and have learnt to recognise bigots and the way that they dress up their bigotry.
So where does that leave us. Well some on this forum think Tony Blair is left wing and so were the Nazis. Well I think if you asked most people in the UK if they agreed with this statement I think you would find this view owuld be very much in the minority.
My politics are firmly left of centre – and yes left of the population as a whole. But the polictical views of most on this forum are way off the views of the population as a whole.
the folk on this forum remind me of the rump end of the Labour Party in the 80s and early 90s who thought the reason Labour weren’t getting elected was because they weren’t being left wing enough. The folks on here seem to think that David Cameron is a dangeous left winger and the Conservative Party should become more right wing to become electable. I hate to havce to tell you this folks but if the Conservative Party lurch to the right you aint gonna get elected.
The Tories tried to plat the immigration card (see I didn’t call it the race card) at the last election and it backfired. Why? Becuase most people know there is a rump of the Tory Party that are just plain bigoted. I know this doesn’t relatebut you’ve got to face up to the fact that there are some unpleasant people in yuor midst. Labour may be seen as authoritarian but the abidfing memory of the Tories for many people was that they were mean, spitful and not bothered about the disadvantaged in society. Why do you think Labour have won three elections on the trot – one of the main reasons is the reputation of the Tory Party.
Sorry Gary I should ahve said your last post but one was patronising tosh – cos you beat me to it with another post.
A lurker
There is not such a thing as the Liberal Left,in this country. This is a term that Republicans use to discribe anything that they dont like. Which is the Democratic party. America is based on a libertarian foundation, useing its written constitution. Both American parties lay claim to being libertarian, but the democratic party has been infiltrated by more European stile socialism, which is quite a different thing.
Conservatism; is useing your knowledge and experience of what works and is desirable and improving on it whenever practible. Otherwise leaving everything well alone.
Socialism; for you is a way of getting your leg over with like minded young ladies, when you were at school. You and George Gallaway have one thing in common. For your sanity and my security, I hope that is all.
A Lurker
you overlook that old American chestnut “its the economy, stupid”. Labour have continued to win, and probably will win again as long as people feel prosperous. Ideology will only come into play when times are hard and non ideological voters (or floating voters) return to thier natural homes.
Global politics are crystalising for the first time in a generation. Soon, its going to be a good idea to be conservative if thats what you call yourself (Cameron) or face the prospect of Conservatives going for a real Conservative party (BNP).
Conservatives have not gone away and have no use for the centre ground. Issues such as Europe, Iran, Tax etc are not being addressed because we can afford to defer decisions on them. With 3 million unemployed this would no longer apply.
A lurker
I discribe it as a chess game, and I choose my words well. Could you tell me as we live in a welfair state how many immigrants exactly your taxes want to pay for. If it was not for your beloved welfair state we could have officialy compleat open borders. Instead of the open borders we have now.
Gary Powell – you really are an ignorant patronising fool aren’t you. My politic have nothing to do with getting “my leg over.” And why do yuo make the assumption it would be with ladies – you know not my gender or my sexuality.
I’m not even sure your fellow travellers would agree with many of your ill thought out witterings.
Brother or Sister Luker, in the headgear:
I can see where you are coming from on the economy. The Labour government of the 70s was a basket case when it came to handling the economy – this government has handled things much better. You may disagree with teh policies on taxatino etc but the reality is we’ve had 8 years of economic stability under a Labour government – which I think many are surprised. But yes that does mean people are going to feel more comfortable with a govenment that hasn’t gotr economic crises to deal with.
You say “Ideology will only come into play when times are hard and non ideological voters (or floating voters) return to thier natural homes.” Not sure I agree with this. If the floating voters are non idealogical then they don’t really have a “natural home.”
Clearly there is some disagreement amonst the conservatives here on the forum cos you say the BNP are a real conservative party and others claim they are really left wing. :-/
As to the three million unemployed comment are you really saying the only way to get teh conservatives back in is for there to be 3 million unemployed? I can’t see that happening for quite a long time yet.
In some sense I do agree with what some people on this forum post about some of the liberal left social issues around race, gender sexuality have become more mainstreamed. 30 years ago very large parts of the Tory Party were quite openly racist and sexist (and proud of it) and that’s not the case now, not only in the Tory Party but in society as a whole.
But the economic models that are largely in use in this country are those of the right – increased marketisation of public services, deregulation, free trade etc.
Dunno what all of this means – but as I’ve said before calling Tony Blair left wing, would in most people’s eyes be seen as not accurate.
A lurker
You say my view of Tony Blair is a minority view, and you MAY be right. This is why I am writing on this site. I have never I mean NEVER heard my opinion expressed on the BBC or on any TV media anywere outside of the USA. Stange in the BBCs case, as it says it speaks for minoritys.
However when I speak to ordinary people which I do a lott. I find that every one is a Tory at heart. That includes my friend….. you.