Drinking From Home notes Sandi Toksvig’s response to a complaint about her dewy-eyed BBC portrait of that popular holiday destination, Sudan.
Toksvig responded:
“I think that you can’t necessarily choose your country to visit because of its human rights issues. If we were to all do that we would be pretty limited in our choice of countries to go to. For my money it would almost certainly exclude the United States…”
I think “moral equivalence” is the phrase we’re all looking for.
“As Mel hates Britain and its people so much and appears to provide her allegiences wholly to a foreign state isn’t it time we packed her off along with the traitorous ‘British’ Islamists.”
i’m Irish. i have an Irish passport and a British one.
i live in Britain, and am loyal to Britain and rather like living here – still doesnt take away from the fact that i’m also loyal to Ireland.
will I , and the 6 million odd other Irish, all pack our bags because of our perceived divided loyalties?
or are you holding Melanie Philips to a different standard because she’s a Jew?
RB:
As Mel hates Britain and its people so much and appears to provide her allegiences wholly to a foreign state isn’t it time we packed her off along with the traitorous ‘British’ Islamists.
You sound like Germany in the 1930s!
Where should she go? Israel? In the 1930s the graffiti on the walls read “Jews to Palestine”, now it reads “Jews out of Palestine”.
Your accusations of dual allegiance are quite revolting.
Sorry, my increasing anger at the tone of MP’s recent diatribes led me to produce a bit of an inappropriate rant.
What I object to is her increasing tendency to ascribe accusations of anti-semitism, pandering to facism, basic idiocy and all manner of crap not only to groups within the UK (and few would doubt that most of the muslim population is guilty of the first two whilst the hard left is guilty of the second), but to the entire population and to ‘the media’ (all of it).
As a very right wing Jew I wouldn’t expect her to acknowledge that the Middle Eastern situation isn’t jet black and stark white. In her situation I’d probably think likewise although most uncommitted unblinkered detached viewers in the UK can see that it’s somewhat more complex. What I object to is the abuse I’m getting from her. So as far as I’m concerned she can f*** off along with everyone else who can’t accept (I’m not suggesting they should like) the views of the majority. And if that makes me a Nazi then so are most of the other contributers here one way or another.
“As Mel hates Britain and its people so much and appears to provide her allegiences wholly to a foreign state isn’t it time we packed her off along with the traitorous ‘British’ Islamists.”
I think what Mel hates is not Britain, but what the political classes and their hangers on like the BBC have turned it into. Something a lot of other Britons up and down the country are clearly unhappy about as well.
Not supporting the PC dogma of the left does not equal being anti-British.
RB -> the reason why Mel is getting wound up so much, is because of the western media’s refusal to acknowledge that Hezbollah really is the Nazi Party mark 2.
instead we see terms like “resistance” or “militants” – but we never , ever, see Hezbollah terrorists doing a hitler salute on the BBC, do we?
i’m with her on that one, and i’m not even Jewish. its about time that the MSM got a collective kick up the arse and recognised the genocidal fascism of the Islamolunatics.
How long does it typically take for the BBC to respond to formal written (email) complaints via their complaints system?
Perhaps they’re inundated?
What I object to is her increasing tendency to ascribe accusations of anti-semitism, pandering to facism, basic idiocy and all manner of crap not only to groups within the UK (and few would doubt that most of the muslim population is guilty of the first two whilst the hard left is guilty of the second), but to the entire population and to ‘the media’ (all of it).
I don’t see her generalising at all in the way you describe. In fact on this TV debate with a raving mad Muslim she even goes to great pains to try to explain that she’s not even talking about all Muslims:
It is a fact however that antisemitism is so deeply rooted and ingrained that many antisemites react agressively when they are confronted with their unconscious hatred.
As a very right wing Jew I wouldn’t expect her to acknowledge that the Middle Eastern situation isn’t jet black and stark white
Why do you insist in describing her as a Jew? Why not a “right winger” or a “right wing journalist”.
I think its to her credit that if you simply read her writing without knowing she was Jewish you’d never know – she writes as a Brit, not as a Jew.
What I object to is the abuse I’m getting from her.
Why do you feel she is abusing you in particular? Has she named you in any of her articles or you just clinically paranoid?
So as far as I’m concerned she can f*** off along with everyone else who can’t accept (I’m not suggesting they should like) the views of the majority.
Where do you suggest they fuck off to? In Melanie’s case you’d clearly suggest she go to Israel just as the Muslims could fuck off back to Pakistan or wherever, but where do you suggest the ‘ethnic’ Brits who agree with her should go?
“I don’t see her generalising at all in the way you describe.”
Haven’t read her much have you? ‘The media’ (nb not the liberal or left wing media) are now responsible for inciting ‘much of’ the country into a ‘profound moral breakdown’ manifesting itself as ‘a hatred of Israel, an irrationality and a willingness to turn objective truths on their heads to a degree which is simply unprecedented.’ Clearly we can’t be trusted to read the nasty papers and make up our own minds on a conflict in which all but the most blinkered would appreciate that subjectivity is rampant.
“It is a fact however that antisemitism is so deeply rooted and ingrained that many antisemites react agressively when they are confronted with their unconscious hatred.”
Bullsh*t, antisemitism is miniscule in the UK outside of the muslim population, certainly in comparison with other racist tendencies. Most of the population wouldn’t know what a Jew looks like let alone despise him for his faith.
“Why do you insist in describing her as a Jew?”
Because depending on the specifics of his politics a non Jewish right winger might well take the nationalist non-interventionalist line and suggest that we desist from ‘supporting’ anyone outside our borders, or the ultra free marketist line that we should be flogging weapons to all and sundry and making a killing.
“I think its to her credit that if you simply read her writing without knowing she was Jewish you’d never know – she writes as a Brit, not as a Jew.”
That is utterly hilarious. I’ve never heard for example even the most nutcase white left winger make ludicrously paranoid and borderline libellous accusations of blanket Islamophobia in quite the way Mel manages to carry it off. I tended to agree with much of her criticisms of everyday Brit society – my problem with her now is that she’s tied herself so firmly to a certain perspective on the Israeli cause and lashes out wildly at everyone disagreeing.
“Why do you feel she is abusing you in particular?”
I like to think I’m part of the ‘much of’ that she so blithely slanders above.
“Where do you suggest they f*** off to?”
There must be somewhere not in profound ‘moral breakdown’ where they’d all feel happy.
Haven’t read her much have you?
I subscribe to her update list – I read everything she writes.
Bullsh*t, antisemitism is miniscule in the UK outside of the muslim population, certainly in comparison with other racist tendencies. Most of the population wouldn’t know what a Jew looks like let alone despise him for his faith.
As a Jew myself I can assure you antisemitism is alive and thriving outside of the ‘muslim population’ in the UK, notably among the left. Have you looked at “Comment is free” on The Guardian website lately?
Most of the most rabid antisemites I’ve met have never met a Jew… and pray tell me, what does a Jew look like?
Blimey RB, if you aren’t a jew-hater, you share a worrying number of traits with the genuine article. Biodegradable has it right: what does a Jew look like in your view?
What does a Jew look like. Well around my part of North London they tend towards the dark hair and nice clothes but I appreciate that it’s hard to generalise with a religion. What they don’t tend to look like is Ledley King who seems to cop most of the ‘yiddo’ chants at Spurs away fixtures, hence my point.
Whilst I would utterly condemn anti semitism by leftist cretins, muslims and indeed everybody else I sure as hell don’t participate in it personally hence my hostility towards MP’s attempts to group me with those that do by virtue of my willingness to purchase the FT, Sunday Times and Economist and be morally corrupted by ‘the media’.
When I said this RB I was talking to you:
“It is a fact however that antisemitism is so deeply rooted and ingrained that many antisemites react agressively when they are confronted with their unconscious hatred.”
If you saw me on the street you wouldn’t think for a moment that I looked like a Jew, but then you probably don’t look like an antisemite.
RB. Good to know you’re unwilling to classify yourself as a jew-hater.
But to get back to MP’s point: there’s now an avalanche of evidence that, at the very very least, large sections of the international media (photographers, TV cameramen, journalists) have been repeatedly credulous in their reporting of the Israel/Hezbollah war. What MP wants – and frankly, what I want too – is an explanation for this collapse in journalistic standards, and some rectification of it.
Because without it, if we do just accept stuff from these people without question, then there’s every chance that we’ll get “corrupted” by it. And we won’t even know it.
And at that point, RB, you might find yourself fishing in the same pond as bona-fide self-aware jew-haters.
Michael Taylor writes:
“What MP wants – and frankly, what I want too – is an explanation for this collapse in journalistic standards, and some rectification of it.”
I rather think the answer to that one is simple: education. The education industry in the UK has become a wholly owned subsidiary of the Left and, since it has become all but impossible to enter either journalism or broadcasting without first having spent a few years being indoctrinated in postmodern Marxism, it is inevitable that all but a tiny handful of contemporary hacks subscribe to all the usual Islingtonian orthodoxies.
The altogether harder question, I would suggest, is what the hell we do about it.
Something has just occured to me regarding the photo of the ambulance that has supposedly been hit by an Israeli missile.
Notice how the roof is slightly concave,now if the ambulance truely had been hit by a missile this would have had totally the opposite effect, and the roof would have been blown from the inside,outwards.
Glynn
The roof is concave as a result of somebody standing on it and wacking it with a pick axe or something to produce all those different sized holes.
😉
Maybe someone’s already pointed this out, but yesterday’s ‘Vent’ covered many of the questions over the magic ambulance:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/08/29/ambulances-for-jihad/
…none of which you’ll see raised by the BBC.
“Something has just occured to me regarding the photo of the ambulance that has supposedly been hit by an Israeli missile.
Notice how the roof is slightly concave,now if the ambulance truely had been hit by a missile this would have had totally the opposite effect, and the roof would have been blown from the inside,outwards.”
—-
Biased view no?
The whole problem with the BBC/Guardian/Robert Fisk approach to Israel is that they really don’t believe it has a right to exist as a bona fide state at all, but they can’t say that so they slander it in convert slanted ways and support Hezbollox who of course can say what they really think about Jews and the Jewish state and can go about the dirty business which Al-Beeb and co would not want to be seen doing or even suppporting overtly. However this does not mean that Israel doesn’t do bad bad things, it does…
what really bothers the left and anti-semites, including MSM:
Back in the 1930s, most Europeans remained deaf to warnings that Hitler was after them, preferring to delude themselves he was “merely” after the Jews. When Europe understood, well after Kristallnacht, that the Jews were merely Fascism’s warm-up act, it was too late. Today a very clever Islamism is also telling Europe it merely wants the Jews, and, unfortunately, many Europeans still respond with the same moral understanding and political appeasement that only a few decades ago set their continent ablaze.
But the Jews – that stiff-necked lot – are no longer prepared to play their part in the script: They fight.
I’ll drink to that, Le’chaim.
we should drink for that daily
Bullsh*t, antisemitism is miniscule in the UK outside of the muslim population, certainly in comparison with other racist tendencies. Most of the population wouldn’t know what a Jew looks like let alone despise him for his faith.
RB | 30.08.06 – 4:10 pm
Riiiight…
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1320
Interesting seeing the to-ing and fro-ing on the “ambulancegate” story.
I have but one point to make. If I was a military commander and I had bought some missiles and this superficial damage was all they did, I would want my money back.
antisemitism is miniscule in the UK…
RB | 30.08.06 – 4:10 pm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2339394,00.html
Red Cross driver killed, world yawns
Rusting in Lebanon occurs in a few hours or Chulov & Reith are just plain wrong.
http://theillusionofknowledge.blogspot.com/2006/08/australians-unfounded-faith-in-chulov.html
via Tim Blair
Israel did NOT use biological and chemical weapons in Lebanon either
In their “all front” war with Israel, Hezbollah had meticulously planned for the psychological dimension, and it appeared that a crucial component in this was to minimize the reporting of their battlefield casualties. On this front, they were able to rely on the support — or acquiescence — of the local medical establishment. While journalists were routinely allowed access to those hospital wards containing wounded women and children, other wards — presumably those housing adult males — were off-limits, blocked by orderlies or the requisite bearded young men. The same pattern extended to the dead: occasionally ghoulish public displays of the torn bodies of obvious civilians and a curious absence of those of fighting-age men.
Shame on those who believe these libels against Israel – shame on those who want to believe them.