Please use this thread for off-topic, but preferably BBC related, comments. Please keep comments on other threads to the topic at hand. N.B. this is not an invitation for general off-topic comments – our aim is to maintain order and clarity on the topic-specific threads. This post will remain at or near the top of the blog. Please scroll down to find new topic-specific posts.
(UPDATE: I’ve bumped the timestamp on this open thread forward rather than start a new one so soon. Several new posts below.)
Tim Blair gets it why can’t the BBC
“The actual number of Iraqi deaths recorded in Lancet’s latest study is just 547. Extrapolating from that figure, the study’s authors estimate:
… that as of July, 2006, there have been 654,965 excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war.
Let’s put Lancet’s number in perspective:
* It is larger than the total number of Americans killed during combat in every major conflict, from the Revolutionary War to the first Gulf War.
* It is more than double the combined number of civilians killed in the bombings of Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki.
* It is a larger number than were killed in Germany during five years (and 955,044 tons) of WWII bombing.
Remember: Lancet came up with this via a survey that identified precisely 547 deaths (as reported by the New York Times). Interestingly, that information doesn’t appear here, or here, or here …
UPDATE. Omar Fadil, one of perhaps only two or three surviving Iraqis, reports from Baghdad:
This fake research is an insult to every man, woman and child who lost their lives. Behind every drop of blood is a noble story of sacrifice for a just cause that is struggling for living safe in freedom and prosperity.
UPDATE II. Here’s an idea. The Lancet people claim 90% of the deaths in their sample are supported by death certificates. If so, why not simply seek out the suppliers, printers, and officials responsible for death certificates throughout Iraq? Surely there’s no need for any clustertronic surveys and dangerous door-to-door footwork if such comprehensive records exist.
http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/weblog/547_becomes_654965/
Orhan Pamuk:
He won the Nobel Prize for literature today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orhan_Pamuk
For those not au fait with Turkish literature, the name might ring a bell in connection with another matter.
“In 2005, ultra-nationalist lawyers of two Turkish professional associations brought criminal charges against Pamuk [4] after the author made a statement regarding the Armenian Genocide of 1915-1917[5][6] and the massacre of 30,000 Kurds in Anatolia. The charges were dropped on 22 January 2006. He has subsequently stated his intent was to draw attention to freedom of expression issues.”
In announcing the award of the prize, the BBC has come to the conclusion that the Armenian Genocide is now merely an alleged crime…..
(Courtesy R5 2:30pm news)
Do you think the Lancet will be producing any figures…?
http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2006/10/11/the_lancet_report.php
More good stuff here – perhaps the BBC should do some proper research for themselves….rather than blindly believing everything they get so long as it shows the Yanks in a bad light…
Alan Man,
You have to understand that the BBC is playing the ‘long game’ and plan to back Turkish entry into the EU (in the interests of fairness and diversity, of course). The last thing they want is a hostile UK population.
“(*BOOMING tax revenues have helped to cut America’s budget deficit drastically to its lowest for four years)”
One of the causes of that boom, has been the tax cut on corporate dividends (Max tax on dividends is 15%). This has encouraged US companies to pay out more dividends which moves capital away from from corporations and back into the consumer sector.
Of course dividends are paid from corporate taxed income, (so they get double taxed again at 15%) and once they enter the economy have lots more chances to get absorbed as tax (sales taxes, etc)
I’m not sure the tax cuts were per se a good idea in the context of a war. But they do stimulate the economy alot. Less for the taxman means incentive to work because the link between work and disposable income becomes so much tighter.
IMHO the best way to stimulate the british economy is to abolish the telly tax thereby giving british consumers an extra £131.50+ per household per year to spend on whatever they like.
‘http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europ…ope/ 6043730.stm
It was ‘Genocide’ in the title and “Genocide” in the text.
Alan Man | 12.10.06 – 6:37 pm | # ‘
Late to the party again (sigh)
Grimer: “You have to understand that the BBC is playing the ‘long game’ and plan to back Turkish entry into the EU (in the interests of fairness and diversity, of course). The last thing they want is a hostile UK population.”
British government together with Bush administration are the most important advocates of Turkish EU membership.
From the BBC article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6045838.stm
“The BBC’s Sarah Rainsford in Istanbul says many Turks are angry at what they see as double standards in the EU, where opinions are sharply divided about whether Turkey should be allowed to join.
The European Commission has said that if the bill becomes law it will “prohibit dialogue which is necessary for reconciliation” between Turkey and Armenia.”
‘Sharply divided’ is an euphenism to the fact that citizens of EU countries are mostly against Turkish EU membership.
And there is no dialogue between Turkey and Armenia. The Turkish Armenian border is closed as well as Armenian border with Azerbaidzhan.
The majority of Turks hate Armenians more than any other nation in the World.
“The French vote came as controversial Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk won the 2006 Nobel Prize in Literature.
He has faced prosecution in Turkey for talking about the murder of hundreds of thousands of Armenians during World War I and thousands of Kurds in subsequent years.”
The Nobel committee got it right this time, but I sincerely doubt that the Turkish government gets the message.
For those who want to know what this Armenian “genocide” is about, look at the following story:
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/genocidefaq.html
The BBC and the News;
Israeli raid on Gaza kills five
Five Palestinians have been killed during an Israeli raid in the Gaza Strip, reports say.
Medics and security officials said a teenage bystander and at least three gunmen were killed during the clashes in the early hours of Thursday morning.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6043042.stm
Two Palestinians killed by Israel
The Israeli army has killed two Palestinians in separate incidents in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Palestinian medics said a 14-year-old boy was killed in northern Gaza. Israel said it killed a Palestinian retrieving a rocket launcher.
In the second incident, Israeli forces shot dead a Palestinian they said was trying to stab them at a checkpoint close to the West Bank city of Nablus.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6034099.stm
Anybody notice how the BBC always reports on Israeli kills in the region as , well civilians. Have you noticed how they will always try to precede the killing of Terrorists (Sorry BBC but these people are terrorists) with an innocent bystander (usually a child and nearly always a young boy) Then they will insert “according to eyewitnesses the people were innocents”
Biased reporting from the BBC or plain fact about Palestinians as victims.
Well, if the latter is the case I wonder why the BBC hasn’t reported this little Palestinian victim hood snippet;
(New York, October 6, 2006)
Shi’a armed groups have threatened to kill Palestinian refugees living in Baghdad if they do not leave Iraq within 72 hours, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch urged the Iraqi government and the Multi-National Forces to investigate these threats and provide greater security to Palestinians in Iraq.
A new leaflet obtained by Human Rights Watch and bearing the name of the Al-Bayt Revenge Brigade Rapid Response Units states that “there is no place for Palestinians in the Iraq of Ali, Hassan, and Hussain.” The names refer to three revered Shi’a imams; in contrast, virtually all Palestinians are Sunni Muslim. The leaflet also warns that “our swords can reach necks” and urges Palestinians to leave within 72 hours and “fight occupation in your own country,” referring to Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories.According to Baghdad residents, trucks with loudspeakers passed through the al-Dura neighborhood on September 25 and September 30 issuing death threats against Palestinians.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/fe2cbc38721139752b48a1898450eaab.htm
Lets be honest here. There is a bigger chance that more Pal lives are at risk in Baghdad than in the Westbank. So why isn’t the BBC reporting this?
Here is a link from the Irag Body Count Database, according to them there have been maximum 48, 693 civilian deaths in Iraq, which includes those caused by “coalition military action and by military or paramilitary responses to the coalition presence (e.g. insurgent and terrorist attacks)…” AND ” excess civilian deaths caused by criminal action resulting from the breakdown in law and order which followed the coalition invasion”
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
They have a database supported by accounts of each incident, the Lancet people FAIL to have a record for their “655, 000” estimate.
Deleted
Edited By Siteowner
Ooough! Was originally a sense of disgust at the thought of it. But perhaps it is the primal sound of the Western liberals wallowing in their perceived sense of rightedness. That or just some flaky people sweating away whilst adding another poor soul to the Leftie divide!
Right, the Lancet study – complete phooey. 655,000 deaths since March 2003 works at (scribbles on back of fag packet) 512 deaths per day, by my reckoning.
I have to express my disappointment in Paul Reynolds, while we’re on the subject. He has this piece up about ‘so-called’ study:
Huge gaps in Iraq death estimates
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6045112.stm
It’s been a long day and I have no idea if anyone has posted this already, but the editor of the Lancet is a 100% moonbat. He was taped recently at yet another of those dreary ‘so-called’ anti-war events raving on about the ‘imperialist’ Americans etc. blah blah yadda yadda:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22920_Lancet_Editor-_Certified_Moonbat&only
No credible news organisation can possibly report on the Lancet’s ‘so-called’ study without drawing attention to the clearly politically motivated editor of that rag. But look, the BBC manages to!
BBC 10 o’clock News
The BBC are having multiple orgasms over the comments made by the head of the Army regarding Iraq.
He’s called for British troops to be pulled out. Certainly no analysis into whether he is right or wrong.
Never look a gift horse in the mouth…
Yep Pete,
Myself & archduke already posted a link, not that it needs saying again. He is totally partisan in what he believes, totally unreliable. Yet the moonbats love him.
I just buried my Grandfather, a man who fought the Nazi bastards. Yet when I was younger I refused to believe that any war was justified via the teachings of the very moonbat mentality I so scorn today. We never really made our peace thereafter, so I have to be hardcore in my beliefs in order to apologise for my mistake, put it to rights. He was a policeman, bomber pilot & headmaster, a man for who facts mattered. I will attack any moonbat twat who just throws these supposed figures into the air so casually, without even having the evidence to back it up. He’s dead meat!
The BBC and Darfur;
What would you like to know about Darfur?
The BBC’s East Africa correspondent Karen Allen will answer your questions about the war-torn region in western Sudan. Karen Allen recently spent 16 days between the capital, Khartoum and on the ground in El Fasher, Kutum and Kassab.
Accompanied by a BBC producer and cameraman, the majority of their time was spent travelling with African Union (AU) forces to IDP camps.
One camp visit was done undercover where they had to pose as civilians to gain access.
More than two million people have been displaced during the conflict
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5398548.stm
How about telling the truth BBC?
Even in the above questions and answers spot you leave out the facts that hundreds of thousands have been murdered. Instead you say displaced.
What a joke the BBC has become.
Or and just in case you stealth edit the mentioned page. Here is a screen shot.
http://img288.imageshack.us/img288/3880/image1mb4.jpg
Through years of scanning newspapers and lately computer screens I’ve noticed that many journalists are incompatible with simple arithmetic. The Lancet twerp who came up with the Iraqi death toll that the left is now endlessly parrotting, as if it’s a revelation from a prophet, is no doubt also lousy at it – otherwise he would have realised that the 650 000 figure is simply absurd.
Every few days we hear reports from Iraq that another 50 or 60 bodies were discovered overnight in Baghdad or another 15 or 20 people were blown up by a suicide bomber.
As Pete_London pointed out, the Lancet figures would translate to over 500 deaths per day. Assuming the press has been doing its job (though admittedly this is of course a major assumption) we can divide the Lancet toll by 10 and then chop off a large percentage of that total since the heavy fatalities are not a daily occurrence and there have been quite a few lulls in the carnage.
So the maximum 48,693 civilian deaths quoted by Diana seems a realistic figure.
Now I could play the reverse of the trick the left is playing with numbers to bolster its argument and point out that there are more murders per year in South Africa – a country allegedly at peace with itself, but I prefer to compare apples with apples.
So I’ll ask the question that the BBC and other mindless media would be asking if they had any respect for their craft and for the public:
If Saddam had remained in power, how many Iraqis would he have killed during the same period?
Lets be honest here. There is a bigger chance that more Pal lives are at risk in Baghdad than in the Westbank. So why isn’t the BBC reporting this?
pounce | 12.10.06 – 9:17 pm
I posted this back in April:
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=2309
DEBKAfile Exclusive: All 35,000 Palestinians expelled from Baghdad in Shiite militia drive to evict Sunnis
April 25, 2006, 9:40 PM (GMT+02:00)
The last evictions were carried out by the Shiite Wolves Brigade (picture) Thursday, April 20. According to DEBKA’s sources most of the Palestinians fled to Sunni Muslim sanctuaries in northern Iraq including Samarra and Falujja. For some weeks, 2,000-3,000 Palestinians have been stranded in tents set up in the desert on the Iraqi side of the Jordanian border. Jordan refuses to let them enter.
DEBKAfile adds: The Solves Brigade is regarded as the most effective and savage of Iraqi militias. Formally it is part of the interior ministry’s security forces, but in actually fact it is an armed branch of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq •SCIRI, one of the two major Shiite parties which is led by Abdel Aziz al Hakim. Its commander goes under the nom de guerre of Abu Walid.
Our Iraqi sources add that the expulsion of the Palestinians is part of the Shiite campaign to purge Baghdad of Sunni Muslims without official Iraqi or American interference. The Wolves have now moved to the southern Baghdad’s Dora to carry on driving out Sunni residents. This campaign has finally put paid to the four-month effort to establish a national government shared by Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis.
pounce; Biodegradable,
Interesting. I must be exposed to too much BBC. I had no idea that was going on.
Makes one wonder how many of those Palestinians were in Iraq prior to the war and how many arrived specifically to blow up American troops and Iraqi women and children.
Come on, BBC. It shouldn’t be too hard to find out from your terrorist friends what’s really going on there. Send Alan Johnston, expert on the Palestinians, over from Gaza to do some real reporting for once in his life instead of pumping out propaganda and sob stories. With his CV, he’ll be welcomed with open arms as long as he doesn’t run into any Shias.
Bryan,
The BBC isn’t interested in reporting the truth about the so-called “Palestinians”, maintaining the myth of the poor. downtrodden, oppressed people is what they do. You won’t find the BBC reporting that Hamas may send operatives to Iran. Neither will they tell us that Saudi Arabia is building an apartheid barrier.
http://www.israellycool.com/blog/_archives/2004/2/11/146397.html
http://www.israellycool.com/blog/_archives/2006/9/28/2369872.html
Here’s a typical example of BBC bias currently on the news ticker:
LATEST: Four Palestinians, including three militants, are killed by Israeli forces in Gaza.
What’s wrong with Three militants, and one other Palestinian, are killed by Israeli forces in Gaza.?
Doesn’t quite have the same ring does it? The article actually calls them ‘people’.
I’d put it like this:
Three Palestinian terrorists and one hanger-on are killed by Israeli forces in Gaza.
Or substitute “hanger-on” for any of the following:
unarmed terrorist
apprentice terrorist
aspiring terrorist
terrorist cheerleader
human shield, or better still, ‘human’ shield
There, that should wind up “Anon” quite nicely 😉
Please, no! I’m having a peaceful afternoon.
Send Alan Johnston, expert on the Palestinians, over from Gaza to do some real reporting for once in his life instead of pumping out propaganda and sob stories…
Bryan | 13.10.06 – 8:29 am
sobstoriesRus, its what we do!
Gaza fishermen risk Israeli fire
By Alan Johnston
Please, no! I’m having a peaceful afternoon.
Bryan | 13.10.06 – 2:42 pm
“Anon” seems to have boogied off – too many unanswered questions to deal with… reminds me of Mr. Reith…
The BBC has