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Open thread – for comments of general Biased BBC interest:
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Thanks for that piece of good news, anonanon.
The Spanish, let’s remember, were among the first of the Europeans to expel the infidel invaders…
dispatches this week had an interesting documentary by Peter Hitchens on Cameron. (yes, he doesnt like him.)
next week , it’ll be “undercover prisoner” – no doubt, a hidden camera expose of the prison service/Home Office.
the positioning of C4 recently to air controversial (and v.interesting) political documentaries really does expose the blandness of BBC current affairs coverage nowadays.
“The Spanish, let’s remember, were among the first of the Europeans to expel the infidel invaders…”
But they were also the first to elect a government out of office for supporting the Iraq war – deeming them ‘responsible’ for the Madrid bombings. But brilliant news about the brave Spanish woman’s defiance in court.
“Oscar | 26.03.07 – 9:16 pm”
errr.. no not really. it was the rush to blame ETA , for political purposes, that really got up their noses. as in, the conservative party over there was political point-scoring over the deaths of Spaniards. THAT was the final straw for many former conservative voters.
and i watched it unfold and found it repugnant myself – it was clear from day one that it was Al Qaeda. ETA had *never* done anything on that scale.
of course there was an element of “blame iraq war for the bombings” , but they would have voted left wing anyway…
” pounce | Homepage | 26.03.07 – 8:38 pm”
that awol story has come up before. the bbc is now beyond parody – a stuck record, rehashing old news to fit its “agenda”.
heard anything yet on the French (of all people!) teaming up with Americans in the Gulf (aircraft carrier Charles De Gaulle)? thought not.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L2660186.htm
What the French and US team up – this must be too much for the BBC
“My understanding is that the English are perculiar within European peoples for having a very early sense of nationality, one that possibly predates the Norman conquest and this sense of belonging to one nation went down to lowest levels of society.
Peregrine | 26.03.07 – 8:37 pm ”
i stand corrected so. but is it not the case that prior to say the 16th century (Cromwell), loyalty was too your local Lord/Baron first, and *then* to the King. In that , one would have been say a Lancastrian first, an Englishman second, and that this changed rapidly during the Civil War and afterwards, as the modern post-feudal nation state was forged?
then again, my interpretation could be wrong. And in any case, regarding Cromwell in Ireland, i was merely pointing out that it was more of a Protestant v Catholic conflict than a a simple “Irish v England” conflict.
Charles the First had many Irish Catholic soldiers in his employ. And it wasnt just the rebellious Irish gaelic chieftains that Cromwell was in conflict with – he was also up against the Anglo-Norman gentry over there , who had settled during the middle ages , and were loyal to the Catholic king of England. (yeah – history can never been reduced to BBC simplicity…)
I am actually descended directly from one of those Anglo-Norman aristocratic families who went up against Cromwell, and subsequently lost all their lands in the plantation that followed his victories. I think I’ll send a letter to Tony Blair asking for a reparation payment. I quite fancy getting our castle back. 😉
” Jon | 26.03.07 – 9:38 pm”
Chirac must be looking for his “legacy” as well. i’m getting a bad feeling about all this. three world leaders looking for a “legacy” versus mad mullahs wanting to build the bomb. if something doesnt kick off this year,i’ll be amazed.
“I am actually descended directly from one of those Anglo-Norman aristocratic families”
I am descended from one of the Border Riever clans – enough said – no compensation for me.
“and i watched it unfold and found it repugnant myself – it was clear from day one that it was Al Qaeda. ETA had *never* done anything on that scale.
of course there was an element of “blame iraq war for the bombings” , but they would have voted left wing anyway…”
Archduke
Yeah – you’re right blaming ETA was probably the biggest factor (and a very bad call) – but they weren’t going to vote left wing anyway – the opinion polls were definitely predicting a win for Aznar’s party. And remember Aznar wanted to blame ETA and not Al Qaeda for the bombing to avoid it being seen as a response to supporting the invasion of Iraq – so the two things were linked.
yeah, oscar. aznar’s behaviour wasnt , shall we say, statesmanlike. i would have voted against him after that performance.
and we have “slavery” on again on the ten o’clock news. oh god. lets beat ourselves up again.
funny how the 500,000 odd (or possibly more) Irish slaves , in the 16th/17th centuries are being airbrushed out of Beeboid history.
google around for the Cromwellian Plantations, the Ulster Plantations and such like.
wow. the bbc uttering the “T” word.
although this Michael Crick, about northern ireland, mentioning the “republicans who advocated terrorism”..
no. i’m not kidding, he just said that.
The BBC , its use of stormtroopers in which to berate the west and half a story.
Americans follow African slave trail
The BBC’s Orla Guerin meets African Americans coming to Ghana in the hope of connecting spiritually with West African ancestors sold into slavery.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6486827.stm
Once again the BBC has to send in its Einsatzgruppen hit squad in which to cover an anti western story. So while watching the news tonight I wondered whom the guns and liquor which were traded for slaves at Cape Coast Castle were for?
I wonder if Frau Guerin from the BBC would care to impart that information. Or even impart the knowledge just who built a fort there in the first place, (not whom you would think) who followed and how the Brits who came last in a long line of conquerors seem to get the all blame.
Then we progress across the water to Jamaica where everybody is a bloody victim. Bollocks BBC, all they can see is the cash till flashing in their eyes. (Lets be honest here) Then lets visit Liverpool were we find a British descendent of a slave. (Really?)
Does anybody else find it absolutely disgusting that the BBC re-writes history with a very big paint brush in which to whitewash huge tracks of history which are relevant to this ugly chapter.
1) The Brits have admitted to complicity in the slave trade.(Yet the BBC still sells the image we deny it)
2) The British (after the Danes) banned the trade. (That wasn’t lip service BBC but actual navy ships patrolling the sea in which stop this odious trade)
3) The BBC only concentrates on the Atlantic trade. The Middle-eastern Trade still had Royal Navy ships patrolling the Red Sea during the 1930s. (I wonder which favourite of the BBC was behind that endeavour)
4) Slaves are allowed under the Koran .As they are under the bible, however the Bible isn’t treated as gospel as the Koran is by the faithful. (Now think Arab countries and Pilipino girls)
The BBC yet again has no problem promoting half truths as fact while white •washing the slave trade which still exists under Islam. (Why BBC just ask any Pakistani young girl brought into this country who has to live with her in-laws about slavery.)
The BBC ,its use of stormtroopers in which to berate the west and half a story
The BBC and the ‘H’ word.
Barclays’ Diamond geezer
Robert Peston
26 Mar 07, 08:48 PM
Is Bob Diamond worth the £22m, or £420,000 per week, he earned last year? Are the star players of his beloved Chelsea football club worth around a third of that?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/
So the communists at the BBC bitch about this little story;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6497769.stm
Which is strange because if I remember correctly the BBC had no problem defending Jonathan (I make rude and disgusting jokes) Ross about his salary. Or are BBC high earners exempt the spotlight of righteous accountability.
Strictly speaking from the historic record Cromwell himself was in attendance at far fewer engagements in Ireland than you might suppose and many of the actions were entirely outside his control.
Of course you could argue they were ‘his’ troops.
Even for the two famous massacres at Drogheda and Wexford at one of them he tried to reign in his troops straightaway and the other has exaggerated figures of the numbers killed.
This exaggeration also happened big time in the numbers of massacred protestants in Ireland during the civil war rebellion.
The problem was in the reporting of the numbers of dead soldiers and civilians in war.
Though we now have modern technology and media to help us out of this mire of partial and mis-information al beebzera views it as an old tradition.
It does its best to continue in it by massively exaggerating the numbers such as at demonstrations or better still the dead from conflicts.
“Even for the two famous massacres at Drogheda and Wexford at one of them he tried to reign in his troops straightaway and the other has exaggerated figures of the numbers killed.”
there is actually a lot of evidence that the cromwell “massacre” at drogheda was nothing more than Catholic propaganda. And this contrarian history is being actively investigated by Irish historians. there is a lot of myth around this period of history, i grant you that.
but still, the Irish slave trade did exist and the plantations did happen.
and my family lost our castle. but after a fair fight with Cromwellian forces. so i’m not complaining too much. whats done is done. its in the past.
Though slavery was acknowledged in the bible it was never condoned and supported.
Looking back it clear to see that those that did condone it had to twist things really rather a lot.
The most important story in the Old Testament is that of delivery from slavery, that is the Exodus.
Slavery amongst Jews was used as a method of selling yourself to pay off debt, the enslaved Jew was then released from slavery every Sabbath year (every seven years).
So slavery was not like the more recent version.
Even slavery in the New Testament enforced by the Romans is acknowledged not supported.
St Paul advises those slaves that can should work to be free.
However Christian doctrine was that all were slaves to Christ (and in that sense all believers were equal).
Many of the early Gentile converts to Christianity were slaves, it is not likely that would be the case if it was in reality a justification of their continued state.
However there were some unfortunate passages that if taken the wrong way imply that if you are a slave you should accept your lot and remain as one, particularly the book of Philemon.
That said it was not for nothing that most of the early abolitionists were so because of their christian belief that it was immoral having got this from the bible and that moral argument above all else eventually got the odious slave trade made enforceably illegal.
Oh and many christian thinkers and leaders calle dfor the end of slavery over the centuries including several popes spread over hundereds of years.
Can’t see al beebzera’s Christian and Jewish hating rop-MA loving reporting mentioning any of this though.
News from Gaza that Alan Johnston didn’t report on, #344972456/7:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54873
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21434471-2703,00.html
(Not included in his brief to report only on the ‘predicament’ of the ‘Paleostinians’)
” BaggieJonathan | 27.03.07 – 12:05 am”
i’ve noticed that as well baggie. the woeful lack of acknowledgment of the Christian underpinnings of the abolitionist movement. even though i’m an atheist, i do recognise that christianity was a powerful force in abolishing slavery. their christian philosophy was a powerful underpinning to the justification that slavery was just out and out WRONG
trouble is – the bbc doesnt even mention it…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/abolition/abolitionists_gallery_03.shtml
note how that description of the Quakers doesnt even mention that they were Christian.
that is airbrushing of history worthy of Winston Smith and MiniTruth.
In a lighthearted vein –
Since this is an “Open thread” and this is not about any specific bias and is not to serious a point [Just in case any humourless nit pickers read this. (Nit pickers – you know who you are)] ….
Have you noticed how many BBC reporters, when doing a piece to camera, all perform the same hand gesture routine.
They start with their hands in front of their waists with the backs of the hands to camera and fingertips touching.
The hands are then moved apart showing the palms of the hands to the camera and then back to the fingertips touching position.
This sequence is repeated over and over. A more “advanced” technique (mostly used on location) involves the reporter walking
slowly towards the camera whilst performing the hand gesture routine. (Fungal Keane springs to mind)
I wonder if there is some “How to appear sincere whilst telling the viewer what they should think” in-house training course they all undertake that teaches
them this cloned behaviour.
Then again, it might be all be in my imagination. Watch a few and if I am wrong, tell me.
I see that the BBC have deleted the top recommended comments on the HYS “Can UK and Iran resolve their difference?”.
The comments demanded that we drop the big one on Iraq. Stupid, but when has that been sufficient reason not to appear, & be heavily recommended on HYS?
At least the BBC appear to have also deleted another highly recommended comment which hoped that Iran would make an example of the service personnel.
Al Beeb can’t have stuff like that on its website, Will. After all they’re the official broadcasting corporation of
Iran
There’s always (D)HYS Alan Johnston: Your messages
Added: Monday, 26 March, 2007, 21:00 GMT 22:00 UK
Alan
You have always been a tireless advocate of the Palestinian cause. I hope your captors realize that the money they hope to gain is not worth shutting down such a valuable spokesperson and release you soon.
Paul Ware
Recommended by 0 people
Added: Monday, 26 March, 2007, 17:37 GMT 18:37 UK
I am Gazan and all the gazans i have spken to are angry at this act of foolishness!
We all pray that Alan comes home back safe!
Refaat, Gaza
Recommended by 0 people
From Al-BBC website..
“Guilty plea from detainee Hicks”
Yet another sob story about the scumbag who watched 9/11 on TV and thought it would be great to sign up with the islamists who planned it. What is notable about Al-Beeb’s numerous articles on this creep is that they always show the same photo of Hicks looking normal and boyish (going for the sympathy factor) – they NEVER show any of the photos of Hicks in Afghanistan in his paramilitary outfit or holding a rocket launcher. To do so, of course, would spoil Al-Beeb’s attempt to present this Jew-hating moron as just an innocent Aussie caught up in evil America’s War on Terror.
This from the admirable Roger L. Simon blog..
“Not to be outdone by the maniacs in Tehran, the maniacs in Riyadh have decided not to give a visa to an Israeli reporter accompanying UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on his current Middle East tour. That reporter – Orly Azoulay – is a woman and a Jew – twin anathemas to our Saudi “friends.” Orly shouldn’t be so upset. She wouldn’t be allowed to drive in Riyadh anyway.”
How typical that the wanna-be islamists at Al-BBC haven’t reported this story. Of course if it had been Israel not granting a visa to a Muslim reporter this would have been a lead story on the Al-Beeb website.
“Of course if it had been Israel not granting a visa to a Muslim reporter this would have been a lead story on the Al-Beeb website.”
plus there would have been a Have Your Say on “Islamophobia”, and a side topic on “Muslims in Europe” up there for about 2 months.
“will | 27.03.07 – 1:47 am ”
seems as if the HYS censors have come back from their weekend break.
the top recommended over the weekend mentioned Natanz and 10,000 degrees.
the one after that recommended that we decommission trident over Tehran.
with Mr Paisley being in the headlines and the BBC loving to say how he used to say “no” all the time, the BBC wont tell you what exactly he was saying “no” to.
this was one example of what he was saying no to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Child_Scheme
In 1950, Browne proposed introducing a scheme which would provide free maternity care for all mothers and free healthcare for all children up to the age of sixteen, regardless of income. It met with ferocious opposition from conservative elements in the Catholic hierarchy and the medical profession.
and
In his resignation statement, Browne told the House:
I had been led to believe that my insistence on the exclusion of a means test had the full support of my colleagues in the Government. I now know that it had not. Furthermore, the Hierarchy has informed the Government that they must regard the mother and child scheme proposed by me as opposed to Catholic social teaching. This decision I, as a Catholic, immediately accepted without hesitation.
The “hierarchy” being the Catholic Church, sending dictats to a democratically elected government.
Mr Paisley’s “No” suddenly appears more reasonable now, doesnt it?
the censors are in overdrive on the Iranian hostage issue.
news sniffer has LOTS of censored HYS posts
http://newssniffer.newworldodour.co.uk/
beyond the “nuke Iran” and “we are all Hezbollah” posts, i have no idea why something like this was censored:
“The level of ignorance on this thread is spectacular. As a former Naval Officer, I know that there is absolutely no way the boarding could have been taking place in Iranian waters. I’ve worked in the Gulf and any waters which are disputed (unsurprisingly the Iranians dispute many areas of territorial waters, which are otherwise internationally recognised) are given a wide berth by the RN in order to avoid such disputes. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this was planned long in advance.”
via LGF
bbc favourite Cat Stevens turns out to be , surprise surprise, a contemptible narrow minded bigot. no prizes for guessing this story *wont* be on Al Beeb…
http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/yusuf+islam+ignores+bare-headed+women_1026111
Muslim singer YUSUF ISLAM reportedly refused to speak with the female guides at a German event over the weekend (24-25MAR07) because they weren’t veiled – despite accepting an honour for building bridges between Eastern and Western cultures.
Islam’s manager explains, “Mr Islam doesn’t speak with women except his wife. Least of all if they don’t wear a headscarf. Things like that only happen via an intermediary.”
thinking of going on holiday in dubai?
think again.
http://www.dubaitourism.ae/Travel/default.asp?SubCatID=43
Nationals of “Israel” may not enter the U.A.E.
no doubt, if America banned Muslims from visiting it’s shores, we’d have wall to wall coverage, with Mozaam Begg on every 5 minutes. but Dubai not allowing Jews in is somehow just kind of accepted by the the MSM. and this is in 2007, and its just blindly “accepted” as if it was a matter of fact issue.
and it gets worse – poster boy of the Beeboid leftists, Bill Clinton, has made a tidy sum out of the Jew hating Emirate
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=27550
“Guilty plea from detainee Hicks”
Al beeb outdid itself on reporting this today. In R4s 7 am news bulletin their reporter came up with what he thought was a wonderful witticism
“Hicks used to be a kangaroo skinner and many people think this is a kangaroo court”
This was subtly changed for the 8am bulletin to news of the masses of supporters Hicks have who think “it is a kangaroo court”. How’s that for impartial reporting? Can it get more loaded?
“How’s that for impartial reporting? Can it get more loaded?
Oscar | 27.03.07 – 9:26 am | ”
no mention of course, of the Australians that think he is a traitor and want him to rot in hell.
just have a look at the comments here,on this aussie news site, and you’ll find lots of “rot in hell” comments alongside the usual moonbat platitudes
http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,21453869-2,00.html
.
Re: David Hicks and recent admissions/verdicts – here’s a wee piccie doing the rounds in OZ, you can get it on a tee-shirt as well.
Tee, hee!
http://thumbsnap.com/v/iqtTwDbv.jpg
“no mention of course, of the Australians that think he is a traitor and want him to rot in hell.
archduke”
Strange thing is, Hicks is exactly the type of white working class youth living out vile militaristic fantasies fuelled by anti-semitism, that, had he joined a far right group, the BBC would love to hate. But because this scumbag converted to Islam somehow he’s treated as a poor, defenceless innocent victim. Doesn’t it just expose the BBC for the shallow, amoral bunch of hypocrites they are.
A Lurker:
You seem to be arguing that if a group of people carry out despicable acts and then they stop doing it we should be grateful for their mercy.
I know it’s a bit late in the thread but everyone bagged Lurker for the history and not the the philosophy.
The answer to the implied question is yes we should be grateful.
Begin and Sadat, Kissinger and Le Duc Tho, Arafat 🙁 , Peres and Rabin, Mandela and de Klerk all received Nobel prizes for ending a state of hostility. If Rommel and the German conspirators had offed Hitler and saved millions of deaths before Allied victory wouldn’t we be honouring them today? Had some Iraqi stopped Saddam before the US and coalition had to wouldn’t we be grateful? Of course we would.
Also I am dubious about the implication that a nation and an individual are one and the same. In the case of ‘leaders’ (the Nobel Prize winners) we can say that. But I don’t think that is fair to Wilberforce, John Brown, Harriet Beecher Stowe, etc to conflate them with their countries of residence.
Just on practical points.
If compensation if paid, so long after the event, who should receive it and how much?
❓ Would it be means tested?
❓ Who would check bona fides?
❓ Would Britain have to compensate ‘slave descendants’ transported by the French, Spanish, Portuguese, Arabs, etc?
❓ Would a person with multiple slave ancestors receive more than someone with only one slave ancestor?
❓ Would one slave ancestor be enough?
❓ Should countries, which benefitted from slavery (e.g. Jamaica) receive the money on behalf of the slaves?
❓ Should African countries receive money on behalf of people who were kidnapped and how much per country?
It seems to me that the best thing we could do to honour Wilberforce’s memory is to take active steps to stop slavery today. Saudi Arabia, I’m looking at you!
save david hicks petition
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/INNOCENCE/signatures-1.html
oh dear. some aussies erm… dont want him back.
“Saudi Arabia, I’m looking at you!
deegee | 27.03.07 – 10:26 am ”
not to mention Dubai. the conditions Indian/Pakistani workers live under out there is to all intents and purposes a modern day slavery.
wouldnt visit that Jew hating tinpot Islamic dictatorship in a million years, yet dumbass footballers and BBC Holiday reporters see nothing wrong with it.
‘oh dear. some aussies erm… dont want him back.’
I liked this example of it:
http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/weblog/cafeoppression/
rather nice t-shirt here too
http://www.zazzle.com/mcooganj/product/235878950625866358?CMPN=EMC-BV2983370235
Good Morning:
DEDICATED TO THE 3,523 VICTIMS WHO DIED IN THE TROUBLES
Irelands Call
Come the day and come the hour
Come the power and the glory
We have come to answer
Our Country’s call
From the four proud provinces of Ireland
Ireland, Ireland,
Together standing tall
Shoulder to shoulder
We’ll answer Ireland’s call
From the mighty Glens of Antrim
From the rugged hills of Galway
From the walls of Limerick
And Dublin Bay
From the four proud provinces of Ireland
Ireland, Ireland,
Together standing tall
Shoulder to shoulder
We’ll answer Ireland’s call
Hearts of steel
And heads unbowing
Vowing never to be broken
We will fight, until
We can fight no more
From the four proud provinces of Ireland
Ireland, Ireland,
Together standing tall
Shoulder to shoulder
We’ll answer Ireland’s call
From which ever part we come from on these great islands, be it English, Irish, Welsh or Scots, yesterday was a day for ALL of us to be proud, for at last we are so near to finally putting down our swords and uniting together to live in peace and friendship.
The open threads can get very very long.
Any chance that when they reach a certain size a new one is opened automatically?
“IngSoc Is Doublethink. | 27.03.07 – 12:02 pm”
if they manage to gain fiscal independence, then it’ll be boom times ahead if they play their cards right.
28% corp tax up north, 12.5% in the south. that *has* to be rectified… and escaping from Brownstuffs tax regime is the only way forward for them.
this made me laugh.
from the comments here:
http://elblogador.blogspot.com/2007/03/hain-cooks-up-big-serving-of-fudge-but.html
stormont in a tea cup
At a table for two. Gerry from the Adams Family asks: “More tea vicar?”.
“Never!”, scowled the Jaffa cake eating reverend.
“Coffee?”, ask Gerry politely.
“Never!”, scowled the British Bulldog with a strong Northern Ireland accent.
“Perhaps, a biscuit?” Gerry asked holding out a Bonio as a peace offering.
“Never!”, scowled the rabid dog.
“How’s about a drop of Guinness?”, Mr Adams inquired.
“NEVER!”, scowled the last man standing from Cromwell’s Army.
“To be sure you’d like a chocolate eclair?”.
“Go on then, you’re a man after my own heart”, the reverend conceded.
Corporation tax is Ireland is outstanding, though the UK is actually lower than a lot of western countries.
However as the beeboids are bound to say its not all one way.
Irish VAT is 21% and income tax is 20% after a negligable personal allowance and a top rate of 42% that comes in on earnings over 20,000. Plenty of duty differences too.
I would expect to see lots more cross border business.
I wonder if it will pressure the Republic to de facto use the pound more or Northern Ireland to de facto use the euro more…
Archduke.
I think Mr Adam and Dr Paisley are getting that money (another reason to smile as well me thinks) and by god don’t the people of N.I deserve it!
And here is the curious paradox. As N.I becomes more prosperous and the Republic and the UK become ever closer in economic terms then the idea of “separatism” becomes ever more irrelevant.
Perhaps in some strange way the is already a “union” with the UK and Ireland, because in my mind at least yesterday showed us how much we have in common when all the “symbolism” is out of the way.
This brings me to a question Archduke. Do you foresee a day when Ireland will come and take its rightful place within the “English speaking alliance” (UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand and Canada) and become a force for good in the world?
Will it also consider re-joining the Commonwealth like South Africa did?
I know its ‘only the Telegraph’ but it was a free for all on their equivalent of (D)HYS.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?view=BLOGDETAIL&grid=F11&blog=yourview&xml=/news/2007/03/13/ublview13b.xml#comments
I assume al Beeb would get the same reaction if they did do this on (D)HYS.
That it would do down the Dave & George show means it almost cannot occur and if it did they would not allow any such thread to last very long.
Still it would keep the moderators busy.
baggiejon -> but the corp tax rate is practically zero down south if you invest in a designated business park. as far i can recall, its zero for 10 years or some deal like that. plus training costs are zero , as you can send your staff on FAS training courses. You can also get tax rebates for sending staff on night time university courses.
either way , its going to be interesting if Northern Ireland are allowed to set their own tax rates – economic competition between north and south (finally) start happening.