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“Clashes erupt at Paris’ Gare du Nord”
“PARIS – Riot police firing tear gas and brandishing batons clashed Tuesday with bands of youths who shattered windows and looted shops at a major Paris train station, and officials said seven people were arrested.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327/ap_on_re_eu/france_subway_clashes_3
“Goodbye Europe”
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21820
.
Good morning.
BioD-Thank you, an interesting piece. 🙂
GCooper and Will.
I’m very interested in your comments regarding Mark Urban.
I’ve become a “fan” of his over a number of years. I actually regard him as one of the few defence correspondents in the British Media that actually has a genuine understanding of defence issues-he was a bright light of “fact” in the initial phase of the Iraq War and I believe he has the “trust” of the inner workings of the “machinery of Government” at the highest level.
I would highly recommend you read Big Boys Rules, I think along side The Secret History of the IRA by Ed Moloney this is an excellent start to understanding the techniques and tricks in the dark side of the state.
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-History-IRA-Ed-Moloney/dp/0393325024
These aren’t wimpy pink mumblings a la Seymour Hersh- but it shows “what really happens” in the dark underworld of asymmetric warfare.
I do concede two things: His presentation I think to some people comes across as “high minded” (in a sort of Paxo way) but I think the nature of the questions requires a certain amount of “wordy” ways of putting it (kind of like a lawyer) but I think sometimes his “target audience” isn’t “the laymen” but more to do with the “train of thought” with some of the sections within the “agencies”. He did try and get a “softer” image with “Time Commander” (which I quite enjoyed,I’m a Total War buff so I’m biased there) but he isn’t that type of “soft” journalist and is nowhere in the same league as Abu Bowen or Simpox.
Slightly more serious is his EU section can sometimes get caught up in BBC “group think”, but I think he is a defence correspondent he is in the mould of Max Hastings, John Keegan, Anthony Beevor in there journalistic days first and foremost.
I’ve always taken the view that the Telegraph has always had its finger on the pulse on what is general thinking within the intelligence services, but seeing as we’ve had 10 years of Labour, I suppose it makes since in having some factual reporting in the left-wing of the press.
This is why I smelt a rat regarding the “Kelly Saga”- the source from the story came from Radio 4/Gilligan, a man who as far as I am aware is an “open source” intelligence expert (like us) who’s only real dealings with SIS are around the Shaylor school of spying.
I think was also involved with that Girl Guide traitor Kathryn Gun who should be doing 20 years for breaking OSA, and who got excited when an “intelligence” source started to say things that he never had clearance for.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3485072.stm
Funny no correspondant information.
I’ve no idea what SIS, MI5 or GCHQ, but in a world where “trust’ isn’t an easy thing but I think relationships with most of Al Beeb is frosty, unless it’s useful of course……..
This would be about now;)
Letter in the Telegraph:
Sir – As the father of a naval officer serving in HMS Cornwall in the Gulf, I find it very interesting to read the comments (Letters, March 27) of those who seem to think that Cornwall should have somehow intervened to prevent the capture of her sailors and Marines by the Iranians.
What should she have done? Blow the Iranians out of the water? No repercussions there!
It is an interesting factor in the whole episode that the Iranians would have known that the ship had been hosting a BBC film crew for some days before the incident.
There must be a question whether their presence at a time of heightened tension encouraged the Iranians to act as they did, in the knowledge that live news footage would be quickly transmitted worldwide.
We should also ask whether the presence of the BBC cameras was an additional impediment towards any action which could have been taken by the commander of the frigate.
P.R. Woad, Chichester, West Sussex
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?menuId=1588&menuItemId=-1&view=DISPLAYCONTENT&grid=A1&targetRule=0#head11
I do not buy the global warming line.
True, I am sure that there must by definition be some effect of burning all of the fossil fuels, but other factors seem far greater.
In global historical terms we are still in a prolonged cool period within a series of ice ages.
That said I do think its vital to our national interest that we should get off our reliance on Arab and other worrying regimes fossil fuels.
Our country is almost out of its gas and oil from the North Sea.
We need to have a lot more of our energy from our own resources so I’m sorry nimby environmentalists that does mean lots more HEP, tide and in particular wind power.
For entirely the wrong reasons al beeb and its green conspiracy friends have got it partly right, we do need to find and invest in alternatives to fossil fuels, make that right now!
See poverty-stricken Barbra. 75 years ago she would have been starring as the fattest woman in the world in Tod Browning’s Freaks . And if this massive woman is so poor, how come she’s feeding her kids chip shop bought fish ‘n’ chips? The paper wrapping is clearly visible on the counter of her well-appointed kitchen. Poverty my arse.
Anonanon | 27.03.07 – 11:20 pm
That reminds me of the incomparable comedian, Jackie Mason. He joked about a fat lady who sued a US airline that wouldn’t employ her as a stewardess. He said that fat people have been denied jobs in the US to the extent that they are starving to death. Then he singled out one member of the audience who evidently didn’t catch the joke and asked, “Is that too complicated for you, mister?”
Priceless.
Anonanon,
I was going to be a little more circumspect regarding commenting on the current situation but I think “Mr Woad” may be planting a thought that occurred to me.
I’m not sure if two of these current stories including the headline are not related, and both are cantered around the ME and the BBC who may also have now been targeted.
And trawling through my resources this morning I think there is a lot going on.
I think it is going to be very tricky to comment on any story now coming out of the Gulf because I think behind the scenes there is darkening hues of what has been referred to in news reports as “wider diplomatic manoeuvres” by Iran.
Certainly CNN and Dutch news has become more serious -CNN was running feature on the IRGC and its headline across Europe.
I think indicating by the relative “light” schedule on last night’s News night and by the tone of the main headlines the MOD press gang it think is in full swing.
I gather last night there was a meeting of COBRA and Beckett is back in country.
I think today might be just a day to wish our lads god speed because picking up on Reid’s tone this is more becoming a very dangerous situation.
I don’t know if I am the only one but this is becoming uneasy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6501555.stm
IngSoc writes:
“I gather last night there was a meeting of COBRA and Beckett is back in country.”
Wow! That’ll scare them…
Sorry, but the prospect of that useless woman even being employed to make the tea while others discuss what to do, fills me with a mixture of hilarity and shame, that this country has come to such a pass.
The one thing that is certain is that, whatever is decided, the BBC will continue to broadcast its usual stream of pusillanimous tosh – the subtext throughout being ‘what have we done to deserve the wrath of those nice Iranians?’
Biodegradable | 28.03.07 – 12:41 am and 12:48 am,
Excellent HYS comments. Many a true word is said in jest.
The BBC have published a surprisingly sympathetic account of the protest yesterday in Westminster Abbey, at the service attended by the Queen and TB to commemorate the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act which became law in March 1807. Support for Abbey slavery protest
The irate protestor yesterday Mr. Toyin Agbetu is a founder member of Ligali: Equality for African People. (BTW they have a very amusing wanted poster of Lammy, Amos, and Diane ‘Absent’Abbot).
Clearly, he is no friend of the BBC so why are the BBC so friendly?Perhaps they are doing what Mark Urban might call “hugging the enemy”.
Ligali have an interesting critical take on Simon Shama’s programme “Power of Art”, BBC embark on ‘cold facts’ approach to African enslavement and charges of “bias” that illustrate what they call the “long standing tradition of BBC’s unabated supremacist cultural arrogance” I guess too Ligali don’t like the idea that Simon Shama was Diane ‘Absent’ Abbot’s supervisor at university.
Astonishing really when you think of what most of us here see as an unnatural bias towards Africa shown by the BBC(Bongo Bongo C.)and New Labour and their proven reluctance (according to editorial rules) to reveal the ethnicity of so much ‘black on black’ crime. But Ligali attacks the BBC as well for this: “BBC broadcast debate asserting ‘black’ men are criminals” Not to mention the practices of the BBC Diversity Czar, Greg Dyke’s pronouncements, the positive discrimination for black weathermen & continuity announcers, the prominence given to the evolutionary “We are all out of Africa” sentiment, BBC specials with Bob Geldorf, Blue Peter expeditions and the hundreds of Comic Relief missionaries continually drumming away to the British public the fact that as Tom Stoppard’s observed in Saturday’s Independent”Africa is eight miles from Europe”
What we generally assume (correctly I think) to be a BBC bias from the left, is seen by very many as one from the right and that the BBC is culturally supremacist. Did the BBC show this commemoration and protest live on TV?
john | 28.03.07 – 12:31 pm | above. I was going to put this on earlier but got distracted
Protest disrupts slavery service
………when human rights campaigner Toyin Agbetu began shouting: “This is an insult to us.”
Mr Agbetu, 39 – a campaigner for Ligali, an African-British human rights organisation ……………
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6497935.stm
What I found unusual for the BBC was that they did not provide a link to Ligali (pronounced lee-ga-lee) So I went to have a look for myself.
This Ligali’s front page http://www.ligali.org/index.php
They decide what English words are offensive including: http://www.ligali.org/terminology/wordlist.php?id=1
Here’s their take on the ‘Wilberforce Myth’ http://www.ligali.org/article.php?id=622
They have a hate list including:
Archbishop John Sentamu http://www.ligali.org/rioarticle.php?id=56
And Rod Liddle http://www.ligali.org/rioarticle.php?id=40
And here they are http://www.ligali.org/aboutus/team.htm
These people seem to be consumed by hatred for all things non-black to the point where they could be construed as a black supremacist outfit. They clearly are a racist outfit though.
I don’t know why the BBC should label Toyin Agbetu a ‘human rights campaigner’ when clearly he has a selective agenda on what constitutes human rights. They go on to describe him as a ‘a campaigner for Ligali, an African-British human rights organisation’.
It now seems that as the US has ‘African’ Americans we are about to get ‘African’ British with BBC support.
I suspect that all this flimflam is just a smokescreen to get the taxpayer to stump up yet more cash. Either way Ligali (or lee-ga-lee) is just a vehicle for professional victims.
Bottom line is that anyone can appoint themselves a human rights campaigner and get the BBC to go gaga.
How the view the phrase ‘ethnic minority’
A label to be viewed in a strictly contextual way as globally Africans are the ‘ethnic’ majority and Europeans are the minority.
TPO
I don’t know why the BBC should label Toyin Agbetu a ‘human rights campaigner’
I think the gloves are off at the BBC right now and they are a little taken aback at the public reaction. Melanie Philips “The enslavement of history” (Daily Mail, 26 March) was a powerful broadside. Can’t wait to hear “Rule Britannia” sung at the BBC Proms this year, how does it go “….Britain never never shall be slaves….” Perhaps the BBC will request that it is played and sung with the BBC Orchestra wearing black armbands:-)
I notice too that the BBCs most prominent black journalist, Clive Myrie, gets all emotional and “native”
Jamaican anger over slave trade
“In the fields, the tears of the living often mixed with the blood of the dead.”
This sounds very much like the emotional rants of one of his fellow BBC journalists- forget his name ‘cry me a river’ man
“Perhaps that’s the price Britain must pay, that it will never be allowed to forget what it did. It is a heavy price, the burden of history. Fitting perhaps for a monumental crime.”
Is he talking about the Holocaust here, “…will never be allowed to forget what it did” But hold on, he is talking about “indignities at the hands of British slave masters” hundreds of years ago. No historical bias here then?
I wonder if Clive Myrie feels ashamed about his BBC pay check each month? Does he feel like an Uncle Tom each time the B(ritish)BC pay him. I really do question if Myrie can ever really feel or know that like Jamaica, the British, similarly “are a proud nation, a proud people” or does he think that we have forfeited such pride because of our(sic) “monumental crime”?
Rarely do we read such awful BBC Bias. I’m afraid too that there is a racist aspect of this reporting, its one-sidedness is a potent confirmation of that ubiquitous “chip on the shoulder” that shows itself.
To think that the BBC once had a rule (a kind of cultural ‘Standard Disclosure’) that disqualified any announcers if they had lived abroad for a period of time, for fear that it would contaminate the quality of the English actually spoken!
“BBC, football commentary and biase. So true.
Remember the BBC’s commentary when Man Spew last won the title, playing a lowly and struggling Soton in the Prem a few years ago. The BBC had Man U down to win that game before any player had even set foot on the pitch. The same with Chelsea and Coppell’s mighty Reading in the Cup.
It’d be funny if it wasn’t so predictable.
808tet”
Like I keep saying Al Beebzera isn’t just biased about news and current affairs, it loves to spread it around and towards sport in particular.
Does the BBC offer any justification for its attempts to suppress the Balen Report?
Archduke wrote:
“oscars post is well worth reading. i re-read it several times, and its gobsmacking in revealing the sheer arrogance of Today. B-BBC should post that conversation on the sidebar. seriously.”
Thanks Archduke – I agree! In case you can’t be bothered to scroll back on this never ending thread – here is the vital bit of dialogue between the Bishop of Lichfield and Humphrys on the Songs of Praise scam:
Bishop: … there are some things that do shock me. When journalists actually change stories and they’ve got a written statement in front of them and they change something •
Humphrys: Ah well ….
Bishop: But that’s a different area. But my remarks about the Songs of Praise were just lighthearted.
Humphrys: (sarcastic) And the other sort of thing NEVER happens at the BBC of course.
Bishop: (sarcastic) Of course.
In other words Humphrys was happy to joke about BBC reporters changing written statements. How many other professions could do that and get away with it – try police, solicitors, politicians – imagine how Today would tear into them – but when BBC journos do it it’s just the stuff of banter.
GCooper.
While I share many of your cynicism regarding political life in Britain, I strongly disagree with you assertions regarding the UK Governments handling so far of this very delicate situation.
COBRA isn’t designed to scare anybody, but it is an indication that the “machinery of Government” is very much focus on the job and a “rolling strategy’s in place.
As some of our more astute readers (for which I include your good self) might begin to realise is this is but one of several disturbing events which directly or indirectly have Al Quds or IRGC hand involved. This includes the area of Gaza and Somalia as hinted in a number of political commentaries and news reports regarding ongoing events within the ME from a number of sources. It is also noted that next month we hold the Chair in the Security Council, as well as taking into account our current domestic and international positions we are “vulnerable” to political warfare.
I understand why some of our more “muscular” bloggers would want to go to work on Iran with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch, but history is littered with botched rescue attempts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw
Judging by last nights CNN footage the IRGC is a far more formidable opponent than anything Saddam had:
Click to access Iran.pdf
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/pasdaran.htm
We need time to gather our Allies and mobilise ourselves for the current information and propaganda offensive to really bite.
Have no doubt Mr Cooper, Mr Blair has more than enough backbone to do the job and commit resources but I think we should allow him to “shape” the battlefield accordingly.
It takes a fox to catch a fox…….or haven’t you forgotten that the some of our Iranian friends have satellite TV and watch Al Beeb?And you never know who is trolling…..
I must say Cameron was also very good too.
I suspect this one will run and run, especially when the BBC starts up in ‘mass hysteria’ mode over it. Personally I think it is hilarious. Why don’t we just start laughing at the likes of Keith Vaz and Stieve De Lance or does anybody else find this ‘racist’?
White Tory councillor slammed for ‘blacking up’ as Nelson Mandela
http://www.blackbritain.co.uk/news/details.aspx?i=2412&c=uk&h=White+Tory+councillor+slammed+for+%E2%80%98blacking+up%E2%80%99+as+Nelson+Mandela
Tory sparks uproar after blacking up to be Nelson Mandela
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=445092&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true#StartComments
BTW, whatever he became later on I always thought that Mandela was a convicted terrorist who was involved in a conspiracy to plant bombs in railway stations, thereby seeking to deny people of their fundamental human right to life.
Oscar
In some case, BBC journalism quite literally drives people to suicide….
John and TPO
I thought the Bishop of Rochester rang rings around this fellow, and my even Paxo looked incredulous at some of the things he was saying……
That the entertaining thing about Newsnight, it becomes so absurd it is almost the Fawlty Towers of political programming.
Re: Newsnight – IID as usual you are spot on.
Paxman spent most ofhis time looking incredulous at that joker.
It was left to the good bishop to give him a hammering.
I look forward to the inevitable bishop of Rochester and archbishop of York in debate with him and the ligali moonbat assuming the latter is not already arrested.
Btw if it had been a Jewish protestor that had got that near to the queen and PM would we not now be talking about his 5 year sentence?
Thanks Baggie 🙂
But GCooper is a on to something- the dhimmi press pack is struggling to come up with a narrative.
See what Paul Reynolds has to say:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6499781.stm
“The best the British government can probably hope for is that in due course Iran will make its point and then make the release.”
We how ever know that our cousins are taking a very keen interest in developments and as previous post have refered to.
So where has the BBC correspondent Frances Harrison in Tehran gone?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6496191.stm
Shouldn’t she be reporting from inside Iran or am I missing something?
Also why are we only getting Iranian State Television reports, and not the talking head?
Hmm…..
IngSoc Is Doublethink
You were canvassing views about the current situation in the Gulf the other day, and I was going to respond yesterday but time ran out. I have to confess that I really don’t know how it will pan out, but I do think a military strike against the forthcoming Iranian nuclear capability is inevitable. I also don’t believe it will involve Israel.
In your comment of. | 28.03.07 – 9:50 am | you said this:
I’ve no idea what SIS, MI5 or GCHQ, but in a world where “trust’ isn’t an easy thing but I think relationships with most of Al Beeb is frosty, unless it’s useful of course……..
A couple of weeks ago I commented about something which I had personal knowledge of involving a BBC journalist, Tom Mangold, giving a breathless account as to how one of the Intelligence Agencies had briefed him on a successful operation.
What Mangold imparted was partially right. Where he went terribly wrong was to attribute the success to the agency that had briefed him. I had been involved in part of it and knew to whom the kudos should have gone.
I saw this happen on a number of occasions with various journos.
According to a professor of maritime law, “the commentators” have got the Iran thing totally wrong on the World At One.
Apparently, under international maritime law, even if the Indian merchant and the UK navy guys had been in Iranian waters, they do not have the right to board or arrest anyone on ships.
Have we seen that important detail anyplace else on the BBC?
Sarah wrote:
“Does the BBC offer any justification for its attempts to suppress the Balen Report?”
The BBC never feels they have to ‘justify’ their decisions – they just deliver them from haut en bas. In the case of the Balen report they simply say it was only ever for “internal consumption” – and have found loopholes in the Freedom of Information Act to keep it under wraps. Another case of gross double standards, given how they like to brandish Freedom of Information when it suits them.
TPO.
I would very much like to see your post-I think it might serve as an illustration of what we mean.
I think one of the many area’s of mis-understanding is what the “collection” and “defence” agencies do-because in the media perception is it a mix of James Bond, Hollywood is what most people think of espionage is.
Be honest Jack Bauer would make a rubbish spy.
They play such an important role in diplomacy and defence, yet it is so little understood.
Does the BBC offer any justification for its attempts to suppress the Balen Report?
Sarah | 28.03.07 – 1:58 pm
The only reason given that I can find is reported by The Times:
The BBC said it was intended as “an internal review of programme content, to inform future output” and was never intended for publication.
A spokesman for the BBC said it is “asking the High Court to reconsider the Information Tribunal’s decision that Mr Balen’s review was covered by the Freedom of Information Act because it is very important that it obtains clarification from the courts about the extent to which the Act applies”.
The spokesman added that the BBC’s decision to contest the case had nothing to do with the fact Mr Balen’s review was about the Middle East and that the same approach would have been taken whatever area of news output was involved.
By the way, this is not a joke:
How many Beeboids does it take to change a lightbulb?
Already interesting developments:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/28/iran.uk.sailors/index.html
Another nicely ironic entry from Alex in Haifa – this time as an Alan Johnston tribute :
I sincerely hope Alan is OK and will be released shortly. All reporters who operate in anarchy zones should be more careful not to enrage the warlords. Just say what they want, blame the other side, and be safe. Leave courageous truth reporting for others.
Alex, Haifa
Mr Smug (N Robinson) obviously thought he would rather feed the “my country always wrong” crowd, when on The Daily Politics he reported that the UK government had released the co-ordinates of the navy personnel at the time of capture by the Iranians. “It doesn’t prove anything”, he explained.
Nice to see that the BBC Have Your Say moderators have got their priorities right.
After yesterday censoring this post:
“The level of ignorance on this thread is spectacular. As a former Naval Officer, I know that there is absolutely no way the boarding could have been taking place in Iranian waters. I’ve worked in the Gulf and any waters which are disputed (unsurprisingly the Iranians dispute many areas of territorial waters, which are otherwise internationally recognised) are given a wide berth by the RN in order to avoid such disputes. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this was planned long in advance.”
Today we have the valuable contribution below, allowed and included on the ‘fully moderated’ board:
Added: Wednesday, 28 March, 2007, 12:38 GMT 13:38 UK
I couldn’t care one bit wot goes on in mid east. I’m only concerned about what happens next in Corrie.
chris, dorking
Recommended by 0 people
Alex in Haifa is somebody I’d be happy to spend an evening with over a beer or several.
On the other hand I wonder if “chris” knows that dorking is not a verb.
Will:
To be honest I think Robinson,Humphries,Gardner et al are well an truly out of the loop on this one…..
Watch Newsnight tonight because I think Urban might be laying out the next stage in inner thinking
The “filers and smasher’s” will be busy me thinks…….
How interesting.
The (D)HYS thread has had its name changed from Should Arab nations ‘reach out to Israel’? to Does Saudi Arabia hold the key to Middle East peace?
I wonder why…
The BBC gave us several hundred words on the following lines when Rashid Rauf was arrested on terrorism charges by Pakistan.
His grandmother says the allegations against her grandson are unfounded.
“He is a humane and God-fearing person, obedient and punctual at prayers. Even a cat could scare him and he would not even crush an ant under his feet,” she says.
“How could he be involved in a plot to kill innocent people? Which ruthless person framed my grandson?”
“I ask you – please help release my grandson, he is innocent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5272316.stm
Today The Times informs us
He has been charged in Pakistan with possession of 29 bottles of hydrogen peroxide, which al-Qaeda has been known to use in bombs.
Changes nothing – still innocent!
Family members claim that Mr Rauf has been set up, and that the peroxide was to bleach his beard.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1578143.ece
Encouraged by the likes of the BBC they think we will believe anything – much like the pathetic lies of the 21/7 backpackers.
Turning ploughshares into swords, sewage pipes into rockets, see the cartoon:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/001077.html
A Palestinian from the Gaza Strip who worked as a metal merchant at the Karni crossing between Israel and the Strip was arrested by the Shin Bet last month for allegedly selling pipes he bought in Israel to terrorist groups that used them to manufacture Kassams, it was released for publication on Sunday.
On February 9, the Shin Bet arrested Amar Azk, 37. During his interrogation, he confessed selling the pipes to Hamas and other terrorist organizations that manufactured Kassam rockets, fired almost daily at Israel. …
The pipes that were sold to Zak were intended for the construction of a sewage system in Gaza.
Family members claim that Mr Rauf has been set up, and that the peroxide was to bleach his beard.
29 bottles of hydrogen peroxide
That’s one heck of a beard!!! 🙁
HOSTAGE SAILORS — BRITAIN’S IMPOTENCE
“March 28, 2007 — IT’S been a tough month for the British Navy. On March 7, it learned that Tony Blair’s Labor government was going ahead with drastic cuts in its budget and number of ships. By this time next year, the once-vaunted Royal Navy will be about the size of the Belgian Navy, while its officers face a five-year moratorium on all promotions.
If that wasn’t demoralizing enough, last Friday the Iranian Navy seized a patrol boat containing 15 British sailors and Marines, claiming they’d crossed into Iranian waters. They’re now hostages and may well go on trial as spies.
The latest report is that the Britons were ready to fight off their abductors. Certainly their escorting ship, HMS Cornwall, could have blown the Iranian naval vessel out of the water. However, at the last minute the British Ministry of Defense ordered the Cornwall not to fire, and her captain and crew were forced to watch their shipmates led away into captivity.
There was a question whether the Blair government would end up leaving Britain with a navy too small to protect its shores. Now it seems to want a navy that can’t even protect its own sailors.
3 pages more
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03282007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/hostage_sailors____britains_impotence_opedcolumnists_arthur_herman.htm?page=1
Unfortunately not having time to check ALL the posts here at the moment, the following may well have been seen already. I thought it worth making sure anyway.
From the Rottweiler Puppy blog.
BBC Develops Trust Issues
It’s no news at all that the BBC hive-mind doesn’t approve of Guantanamo Bay. For the past five years, the Corporation has gone out of its way to criticise the policy of keeping dangerous Islamopaths under lock and key, and, thus far, the line of attack has been simple:
* Give copious amounts of airtime to any (however incredible) complaints of abuse, flushed Korans or turned-up air-conditioning
* Give a platform to any individual or group (Liberty, Amnesty International, the UN, lawyers working for detainees) willing to bleat about the supposed illegality of Gitmo
* If forced to mention the reason detainees are being held, hedge this embarrassing truth with an ‘America claims’
* Never raise the question of what the world’s most dangerous terrorists might do if turned loose
As tactics go, these have served the BBC’s agenda rather well. Indeed, the Gitmo-as-gulag meme is now accepted by such a large section of the British public that, when reporting on claims Australian detainee David Hicks had been forcibly sedated, the BBC felt able to flesh the story out in the following, unintentionally amusing, way:
In Sydney, campaigners have put on display a life-size replica of the cell where Mr Hicks is being held.
The white-walled structure measures 1.8m wide and 2.4m long and is modelled on a Pentagon photograph showing where the detainee is confined for 22 hours each day.
Put on display in the centre of the city, one student was close to tears after spending just two minutes alone inside.
Tears after only two minutes? Gosh, but maybe that explains the reason Hicks needed sedation?
What isn’t adequately explained, however, is that Hicks, like his fellow Holy Warriors, is a very dangerous man. In the past, the sin of omitting this is something the media have been able to get away with by virtue of the fact that none of the Gitmo inmates have actually gone on record to admit their guilt. Back in the day, it must have seemed like a pretty safe bet that wouldn’t happen.
Only, here’s the thing — it just did:
An enemy combatant who has confessed to planning the bombing of the USS Cole says he bought the boat and the explosives and that he was with Osama bin Laden in Kandahar, Afghanistan, when the bombing was carried out in October 2000.
Waleed Mohammed Bin Attash confessed to planning the attack on the destroyer that killed 17 sailors in the Gulf of Aden in Yemen.
You can see how this sort of thing presents outfits like the BBC with something of a problem. After five years painting Gitmo’s inmates as innocent victims of the BushHitler war-machine, what’s to be done when one of the bearded crazies confesses to murdering 17 people?
USS Cole suspect ‘admits guilt’
Would you look at those scare quotes? Do the BBC have some reason to think Attash didn’t claim responsibility for the Cole bombing? But wait, there’s more:
Walid Mohammad bin Attash is said to have made his confession in a hearing at Guantanamo Bay prison camp in Cuba.
[…]
Partial transcripts of the alleged admission made during a closed-door hearing were released by the US defence department.
Well, alright. These are closed hearings, so no journalist heard Attash make this admission with their own ears. But. Still. This use of language (’said to have’, ‘alleged admission’) is surely designed to signal doubt that Attash said any such thing. So, question: do the BBC really believe the US Government is manufacturing bogus confessions?
Or is it that, having devoted so much time and effort on discrediting Guantanamo Bay, no one in the Corporation can quite bring themselves to swallow their pride and admit they called this one wrong?
Compare Matt Frei’s usual sneering, sarcastic style when writing about the USA with this drooling piece on Iran.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6501459.stm
Journalist visas are like gold dust and Iran is a memorable country to visit.
There’s the majesty of Isfahan with its blue mosques, giant squares and scented bazaars; the ancient courtyard mansions of Kashan; the sophistication of Tehran, where beautiful women are forced to wear headscarves and anoraks in public and look like supermodels masquerading as spies.
…
If I were the US government I would issue Iran with 10,000 student visas and 1,000 technology grants to Silicon Valley.
Iran boasts five million college students with higher degrees, the largest proportion in the Middle East.
Instead of encouraging them to turn into head-bashing extremists I would seduce them into becoming head-banging, iPod-wearing computer geeks.
Unfortunately none of this will ever happen.
Fortunately Arbeit Macht Frei will never be the US government.
Bio:
He’s right it’s a beautiful country. Pity about the people running it. Off-topic, I spent a lot of time speaking to locals when I was there and I didn’t meet one who didn’t loathe the mullahs. The Beeb NEVER tell you that.
Jonathan Cambridge
The US is a beautiful country but I don’t recall Frei ever mentioning that.
He does actually hint that the Iranian-on-the-street would like to see the back of the mullahs.
A well-dressed man in his 30s wandered up to me. He looked angry. “How dare you call as an axis of evil?” he said in Farsi and waited for our translator to deliver every word of his diatribe.
“What about your President Bush?” he soldiered on. “He’s a top-class aggressor!”
Then he looked around and motioned me to come and stand behind a pillar.
He leant so close to me I could smell the tobacco and garlic on his breath. My personal space was definitely being invaded and I was pondering options.
“There is a joke doing the rounds,” he suddenly said in a whisper and in perfect English. “If only the B-52s [bombers] could stop off in Tehran before going on to Kabul.
“After all, it is on the way!” He motioned to the ayatollahs on the podium next to us. “We can’t get rid of them without your help!”
Oops – read the Frei article. Egg on my face or what? His experience with the guy dragging him behind the pillar and giving his real opinion in a whisper is absoulutely typical of the sort of thing I saw.
From said article
“The capture of 15 British sailors should serve as a warning. Nations cannot “opt out” of their responsibilities in the War on Terror when they feel it, like players in a pickup basketball game or cricket match.”
“Enemies like the mullahs and their terrorist allies recognize no time outs, no neutral ground. They see only strength and weakness, those nations they can manipulate and those they have to fear. Today they clearly feel they can pull the British lion’s tail with impunity.”
Here Here….
And and even more brutal assessment:
Click to access 070221_british_basra.pdf
When the middle class blog there messages of “were Hezbollah now” and the endless leftward bleating from rock stars that the trolling MOIS agents pick up on then indeed we might wander why.
How do you think this looks in down town Tehran?
“The seizure of our soldiers is just another facet of Tony Blair’s legacy.
The maritime boundary of the Shat al Arab waterway has been in dispute around the 125-mile-long channel – known in Iran as Arvandrud
(Farsi for the Arvand River), since Saddam Hussein – our one-time client regime/proxy – cancelled the 1975 treaty and five years later and invaded Iran, triggering an eight-year war.
Our soldiers and their commanders must have known this?
The Iraqi military commander of their country’s territorial waters cast doubt on claims the Britons were in Iraqi waters.
“We were informed by Iraqi fishermen after they had returned from sea that there were British gunboats in an area that is out of Iraqi control,” Brig. Gen. Hakim Jassim told AP Television News in the southern city of Basra. “We don’t know why they were there. And these British troops were besieged by unknown gunboats, I don’t know from where,” he said.
Fars News, the semi-official news agency of the Iranian Government, set forth these claimed facts:
Britain claims the opposite.
The problem now is our credibility when it comes to our counter claim imminently about to be backed up when we publish the GPS co-ordinates / satellite photographs? Sadly due to the Iraq catastrophe • dodgy dossiers, forged documents relating to yellow cake uranium etc • one is left with maore than a lingering suspicion as to what credibility, if any, will be placed on any evidence we produce in support of our claim by the Iranians, and one can understand that, which is extremely worrying for the families of the soldiers involved.
There is little point in an impotent prime minister posturing about this ‘moving to a different phase if our troops aren’t released’ • unless its all part of the George and Tony’s Great Game and we are imminently about to see US proxy Israel commence bombing of infrastructure targets • because quite frankly the Iranians are holding all the cards, and our troops.
To answer the question how should we deal with Iran:
What we should not do is allow this to be come part of some ‘nuclear poker game’ of diplomatic brinkmanship and posturing. There are too many wild cards in the deck. Too much possibility exists for a minor skirmish to unleash World War 3.
Our diplomats and Downing Street must remain ever cognisant of Sun Tzu’s second rule of war, more so than his first rule • ‘all war is based on deception’ which quite frankly got us into this war • and remember that “its easier to start a war then end one…”
This is how we must deal with Iran:
All diplomatic pressures must be brought bear on Israel to sign up to Saudi Arabia’s peace plan mooted in today’s Telegraph.
We must withdraw our troops from Iraq, acknowledge our war crimes with the guilty going before international courts in accordance with the Nuremberg precedents • we must rebuild what we’ve destroyed.
Tony Blair and the cabinet members who sat on their complicit hands committing negligent suicide by permitting Blair to mire Britain in this catastrophe should loose their pensions which can be paid in reparations to Iraq • as a lesson to all politicians that they have a responsibility to serve their country, not render it a dis-service.
Britain must take a fresh look at its relationship with Russia • they helped us defeat fascism in 1945 (and have plenty of oil and gas, politicians are quick to spout real politik when it suits them) • and reappraise its special relationship with the US, who also helped us defeat fascism in 1945 • but who have quite frankly behaved like fascists in Iraq…20% of whose population have either been killed, injured, displaced internally or scattered around the world as refugees…
Good God even Hitler only displaced 14% of the populations in the countries he terrorised…”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?view=BLOGDETAIL&grid=F11&blog=yourview&xml=/news/2007/03/28/ublview28.xml
In fact it could have been written in Tehran.
The last four years we’ve had a perpetual drip effect of “public disapproval” regarding has made us weak and complacent. The aren’t people to “blame” not just TB and chums, but moonbats like him.
BioD
“I’m not saying he’s been grossly misunderstood. I am saying that Iran is far less monolithic than many in Washington like to think. The trick is to sweat out the differences.”
Well according to Andrew Neil when questioning the Labour MP on the politics show “too much is made of the splits within Iran” and warned the MP “not to overplay it”………
So which is it BBC?
Where is your Tehran correspondent to provide us with an insight?
Is the Beeb hiding something regarding there reporting inside Iran?
Thank you kindly, Oscar and Biodegradable, for your responses to my query about the BBC’s justification for suppressing the Balen Report.
On the assumption that we, the licence-fee payers, have paid for both the report and the ongoing exertions of the BBC to keep it out of the public domain, we do appear to be getting very poor value for money, don’t we?
“The BBC said it was intended as “an internal review of programme content, to inform future output” and was never intended for publication.”
I’m paying for it, so I’d like to know what their plans for future output are. Why is stopping me from knowing worth £200,000?
Paul Reynolds allows his bias to show in this piece:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6502947.stm
Apparently by disagreeing with the Iranians and stating the sailors were in Iraqi waters, Britain is trying to “ridicule” Iran, and is causing an “escalation” to the whole crisis.
How very DARE we disagree with the Iranians!
Allah Ackba here is the news from the BBC;
Iran TV shows female navy captive
Iranian state television has broadcast an interview with captured British female sailor Faye Turney and footage of 14 male captured colleagues. Leading Seaman Turney, 26, said they had been seized in the Gulf because “obviously we trespassed” in Iranian waters – something the UK disputes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6503657.stm
What do Iranians think of the Gulf crisis?
In my opinion the British are exaggerating the situation. With the current circumstances, it is inconceivable that Iran would have detained these soldiers with no reason. Actually, quite opposite to their propaganda, the Iranians are very careful not to give the West any excuse. I think such a risky act by Iran shows that the Iranians have really lost their patience.
Morteza, New York
I feel no compassion for the British sailors. They are transgressors and deserve to be punished. I am completely sure that the British sailors are safe and have not been subject to any torture. In my opinion Iran has detained them in a move to secure the release of the Iranian diplomats (held by the Americans in Iraq).
Mehrdad, Sydney
British apply ‘ridicule’ tactic
British naval personnel held by Iran did not violate Iranian waters, the British government is trying to put the Iranian government on the defensive. And by revealing that Iran changed its own claim about where the incident took place, the British are also trying to ridicule the Iranian position.
…………………….
However, Iran has immediately hit back in the propaganda war. It has broadcast television pictures of their prisoners, and has shown an interview with and a letter from the only woman in the party, Faye Turney. She wrote in the letter to her family that the group had “apparently gone” into Iranian waters
……………….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6502947.stm
The above are a few of the stories on how the Mullah loving Koran fearing Jihad swearing West hating idiots at the BBC have reinvented this story in which to make Britain look the aggressor and Iran the victim.
The BBC ,it’s hatred of Israel and half a story;
Arab leaders relaunch peace plan
Arab leaders holding a summit in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, have urged Israel to accept an Arab peace initiative first proposed in 2002. Under the plan, Arab nations would recognise Israel if Israel withdrew from land occupied in the 1967 war. The plan allows for the creation of a Palestinian state and the return of Palestinian refugees. Five years ago Israel rejected the plan but now the Israelis are reacting more positively to it, correspondents say.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6501573.stm
So according to the BBC news The Arab countries have got together and asked the Jews to accept a peace initiative. Which consists of them recognising Israel if Israel pushed back to her pre-1967 boundaries. Note how the BBC ensures that Israel is highlighted for refusing such a move in the past. Which is ironic as in 1967 after the war had ended Israel (And not the Arab nations)proposed such an idea for peace in the Middle East. And the Arab response?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution
Funny how the BBC kind of left out that snippet.
And it gets worse from AL BEEB.
A few minutes ago, BBC 24 TV gave a 5 minute slot to a Tehran Professor of Political Science to give a virually uninterrupted view on the 15 British sailors’ ‘crimes’. He could have had AhmadineJIHAD next to him: the ‘Professor’ just gave a straight Islamic Republic line, and got a fulsome thank you for his propaganda from the dhimmi Al Beeb ‘interviewer’.
Incidentally, if the British Royal Navy were really prepared for any war-like situation, wouldn’t any captured personnel be trained to only give ‘name, rank, and number’, to the enemy?
Can we have a new thread please