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leading on from my Paddys Day watch(and the BBC main news refusing to even acknowledge it) and Ingsoc’s (i think it was him) boast of being proud of being Anglo-Irish, celebrating both his Englishness AND Irish roots (yes, it can be done..why not?) i had a rummage around wikipedia , and what i dug up was quite surprising, even to me.
and it just shows how intertwined the islands of Britain and Ireland really are (to a far greater extent than i even thought…)
Kate Bush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Bush
“Bush was born to an English father Dr. Robert Bush and an Irish mother Hannah”
Ralph Fiennes
“Born in 1962 in Suffolk, England to photographer Mark Fiennes and novelist Jennifer Lash”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Fiennes
Jennifer Lash (his mother)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Lash
“Born at Chichester, Sussex on February 27, 1938 to Joan Mary Moore, an Irish Catholic, and Brigadier Henry Lash, a British colonial officer”
Elizabeth Hurley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Hurley
“Hurley’s father, a lapsed Catholic of Irish descent, was a British Army major, while her mother, an Anglican, was a schoolteacher at Kempshott Infant School”
Steve Coogan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Coogan
“Coogan is one of six children born to Irish immigrant Roman Catholic parents.”
Paul Merton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Merton
“Merton was born in Parsons Green, London to an English father and a mother of Irish Catholic extraction.”
Duke of Wellington
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Duke_of_Wellington
“Wellington was born The Honourable Arthur Wesley at either his family’s social season Dublin residence, Mornington House, or at his family seat, Dangan Castle near Trim, County Meath, Ireland.”
Alfred Hitchcock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Hitchcock
“Alfred Hitchcock was born on August 13, 1899, in Leytonstone, Essex the second son and youngest of three children of William Hitchcock, a greengrocer, and his wife, Emma Jane Hitchcock (née Whelan). His family was mostly Roman Catholic.”
Johnny Marr (born Johnny Maher)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Marr
“Like many Mancunians • including his bandmates in The Smiths • Marr is of Irish Catholic descent; his parents emigrated from County Kildare to Manchester in the 1950s. ”
more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_community_in_Britain
i’m not saying any of the above are “Oirish” per se. just interesting to see a bit of the shamrock creeping into the backgrounds of folks I thought were 100 per cent English…
Yes,Martin is a good bloke and I think he had one or two “Nick Cohen” moments here as well.
Still now rest in war,and i notice very resent.
BioD-Very well played sir !
Bio
Thanks for the tip.
With regard to Martin Belam, I’ve never seen him be impolite on this blog, despite being dusted up on occasion. I personally welcome his contribution.
Baggie
My temper led to my wife banning me from listening to the Toady programme. I’ve always viewed it as the daily party political broadcast for socialism.
“TB…you’ve never had it so good
IiD | 03.04.07 – 1:50 pm ”
my thoughts entirely.
here’s my crazy idea.
the pressure on the “brown succession” gets to such an extent that Blairite coup happens. Brown is fired, all Brownites kicked out – and the treasury taken over by the Blarities.
TB goes into the next election as leader, and beats the crap out of “call me dave”.
Blair is still a relatively young Prime Minister. without him, i really do believe that the labour party will implode or even split into brownite and blairite parties.
come to think of it – Blair only said that he was stepping down as “leader of the labour party”.
he never said he was stepping down as PM. (if i’m wrong , please do find a quote…)
and what about stepping down as leader of labour – but stepping up as leader of New Labour (not a buzzword – actually renaming the party officially….). Brown can scurry off to lead the “LABOUR party”…
just idle speculation on my part, but with all those Labour MPs fearing for their seats i can hear those knives sharpening.
Wake up UK!
Brownstuff and ballsup, New Dave and George, or even minging campbell.
It is a truly appalling and shocking prospect…
Tony Blair
his mother is a Protestant from Donegal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_blair
Des Lynam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Des_Lynam
born in Ennis, County Clare
English B-BBcers can do the same in reverse:
Adam Clayton of U2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Clayton
born in Oxfordshire. British citizen
The Edge, of U2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Edge
born in Barking, to WELSH parents.
retained his British citizenship.
Oh it’s meltdown in all three camps me thinks.
A return to the apathy of the Major years…but with all three of them.
No John Smith to shine the light, no Blair to take up the challenge.
I think though TB is going because he will he now looses nothing….why should he flog the dead horse of Labour anymore.
He is going to be a very dangerous figure for Brown, Cameron and Campbell over his ME “judgements” in years to come.
And all the finger-pointing, back-stabbing nonsense of the last three odd years now comes back to haunt them.
Oh boy….never has Tory High Command got Blair so so wrong.
Cameron looks shallow and weak, Ming is hostage to fortune, and Brown with so much blood on his hands. The BBC stock hate figure has gone and the there “man” is now in there is panic in Westminster on “what now” ?!
And unless it’s stopped the BBC is going to fill in the “void” for us.
“BaggieJonathan | 03.04.07 – 2:12 pm”
my outside bet…
Blair v David Davis
both have faults. but both have attributes that i think the average Brit does like. Even if you are an enemy of Blair , one can acknowledge his political operator skills (and his steadfastness over Iraq).. and Davis just isnt your typical Tory toff, and has a directness and brusqueness and indeed a self-confidence that is admirable.
the rest of the shower you mention, i think hardly anyone can see ANYTHING good about any of them.
MacCavity the Cat Scottish hustler Brown versus PR guru “call me Dave”?
errrgh…
archduke writes:
“…he then has a reasonable stab at categorising the very commentators on B-BBC into various sub groups.”
I followed the link to Mr Belam’s site and while it’s interesting, he makes exactly the same mistake as so many BBC apologists – he fails to address the central issue of the Corporation’s profound cultural bias. That is, as distinct from a nakedly political leaning.
You would have to be stunningly obtuse (or so immersed in Guardianista thinking that you were oblivious to the existence of other points of view) to endure a day’s listening to BBC Radio 4, for example, and not conclude that it has a pronounced ‘progressive’ slant and that this is systemic. It may now have become a cliché to suggest that the BBC is ‘institutionally biased’ but, in common with many clichés, it became one because it is so obviously true.
Listen to the subject matter of R4’s drama, week in, week out. Consider which authors and film makers are invited to discuss their work on BBC arts programmes, which newspaper pundits are called in to offer opinions (there’s a damning research piece begging to be undertaken on the proportion of Guardian and Independent writers to those from other papers). Deconstruct the plot lines of popular BBC TV programmes (Dr Who – a shining example of populist drama being used as a vehicle for cheap polemic): there is almost nowhere in the BBC’s output that you cannot find this cultural bias and it is this that informs the more obviously political programming, not vice versa .
The best that BBC apologists seem able to do is dispute individual items – which is where the accustions of nit-picking stem from. But that simply avoids what is the real issue – that the BBC represents a cultural (and thus political) force in the UK, as profound as that of any political party.
Until commentators like Mr Belam get to grips with that, then all they are doing is quibbling about details, while the juggernaut rolls on, unchecked.
archduke.
No matter what politics you follow-its a matter of blood and time.
My fathers grandparents were Welsh Lighthouse keepers of the coast from off the coast of Pembroke so I am the product of the “union”.
I’m very keen on the history of the British Isles in both local and national history which was partly inspired by the BBC (I did the Domes day Project at my school if you are of a certain age;))
Thanks for the nods of appreciation. As always I thank the site owners for providing this space for us to play in, and most importantly to give a public airing to our concerns.
Just to show that I’m not solely interested in matters concerning antisemitism and Israel, here’s one that got up my nose today:
O come all ye faithful?
When will we see a similar piece, bordering on the disrespectful, about that other religion the BBC is so fond of defending?
By the way today is Passover. After the BBC’s concerted effort to make us all feel guilty about slavery it would have been a good opportunity to mention the historic deliverance from slavery in Egypt of the Jewish people, after all they don’t let us forget Ramadan or Eid.
A happy Passover to all my Jewish friends here, Leshana Haba B’ Yerushalayim!
GCooper.
I think that is the sort of brutally honest assessment yet.
I think there is much ammunition in this unpublished report on who is watching the BBC.
We need the tables and memo’s- hard fact.
GCooper…..
Do you think we need to be a bit more “pro-active” in that respect?
Like Guildo or Ian Dale….?
Sorry-I’m thinking in Dutch….
GC-I think that is the most brutally honest assessment yet.
IiD | 03.04.07 – 11:31 am,
Thanks for those links. Here’s Martin Belam from this link:
http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2007/03/my_biased_view_of_the_biased_b_4.php
I was engaged in a thread on Biased BBC at the time about the conspiracy theory documentary, because a lot of the people on there, as a knee-jerk reaction [my emphasis], automatically assumed that the programme was going to support the conspiracy theory, and take the opportunity to be anti-Bush and anti-American.
This, of course, is not totally accurate. The reaction here was also based partly on the BBC’s reputation and partly on Mike Rudin’s original post on The Editors blog – which contained no evidence to suggest that the BBC was sceptical of the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Martin Belam again from the same link:
By the time I got to making an official complaint, I wasn’t complaing about the comment itself, I was complaining about the failure of the BBC’s moderation process, which allowed racist anti-Semitic material to be published on one of their blogs, despite repeated complaints from multiple people through multiple channels.
Interesting and unusual to see a BBC-ite experiencing the same frustration as ordinary mortals with the BBC’s “complaints procedure”. No doubt Biased BBC-ers will recall that the BBC’s very own “independent” Israeli-Palestinian Impartiality Review also had negative comments about the BBC complaints system.
” IiD | 03.04.07 – 2:28 pm ”
yes, its extremely fascinating alright.
because i grew up in 70s ireland during a very divisive and horrible time ( bodies being found dead in ditches after being tortured, “informers” dissapearing never to be found again, hit squads bumping off people in local pubs…all happening in the deep south where i was…it didnt just all happen in the North)
thats stayed with me to this day and prompted me to look beyond the green v orange stereotypes – beyond what the headbangers were mouthing off so to speak.
quite a number of my indirect ancestors settled in southern Wales as well right after the famine and have remained there ever since.
meanwhile back at home, i managed to trace a lineage going back the original Anglo-Norman gentry. Henry II gave lands to one of my very distant ancestors, who was of Anglo-Saxon stock,and can be traced back to King Alfred. (no i’m not kidding… history is pretty awesome stuff when you start poking around and getting beyond the stereotypes…)
Contd: Martin Belam again:
For a start, the Editor’s Blog, and the other BBC blogs using the same system, should adjust the disclaimer that “Comments are moderated, and will not appear on this weblog until the author has approved them.” to more realisticly reflect who actually does the moderation.
Secondly, they should more generally be up-front about who is actually doing the moderating on the site in the BBC’s name. The DNA powered message boards, the blogs, the various pseudo-blogs dotted around bbc.co.uk, and the BBC News Have Your Say boards are all moderated by different groups of people, leading to a difference in quality and consistency.
Fine. But if I read between the lines here, Martin Belam appears to be suggesting that anti-Semitic or other undesirable comments remain on the BBC blogs through a number of factors unrelated to bias, even though his very own experience with the Truthseeker comment demolishes that line of argument.
Something else that demolishes that line of argument is the fact that the following comment
6. At 11:20 AM on 14 Mar 2007, Des Currie wrote:
The one thing the Jews are expert at is creating diversions for any member of the Jewish community. Levy could be as guilty as sin and after Judaic spin has come into play he will be being sold as whiter than white washing powder.
Next the holocaust will come into play, if it has not already.
Des Currie
remained on this blog post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/03/alert_to_the_arguments.html
even after I’d e-mailed the following message to the author personally, using the form on the sidebar of The Editors blog:
To Kevin Marsh,
I refer to comment no. 6 on your “Alert to the Arguments” post on March 13th.
I was wondering what twisted reasoning could lead Des Currie to assume that Jewish supporters of Lord Levy would use the Holocaust to claim that he is being victimised.
I was also wondering why you felt it was appropriate to publish his comment.
Whoever Des Currie is, I’m sure he was delighted to have his vitriolic little example of anti-Semitism published on your blog.
Mr. Marsh did not do me the courtesy of replying to my e-mail.
The “moderators”, meanwhile, cheerfully deleted a mildly anti-Alan Johnston comments of mine posted to HYS, would not delete a comment describing Israel and the US and Britain as “dogs” and dug their heels in and would not post my comment to The Editors blog pointing out that the BBC should be mentioning the fact that slavery and Muslims can actually fit in the same sentence.
Now you tell me, Martin Belam • since you read this blog • where does the anti-Semitic buck stop at the BBC?
So you’ve gone back to your roots so to speak.
Winchester is not far and is indeed a very nice place.
I’m going to Northern England and Southern Scotland. All those old villages and towns long the border and all that history.
Castles,battlefields,Hadrians Wall, old churches. Can’t wait to go!
I think it’s because my wife’s family aren’t English that it’s sparked a renewed interest in my past.
Bryan:
You going to make an offical complaint?
” Bryan | 03.04.07 – 2:43 pm |”
indeed. mention something similarly repugnant on here , and its pretty much jumped on sharpish.
which leads me to believe that the BBC doesnt believe that having anti-semitic comments isnt too big a deal. its a low priority to them.
on the other hand there was a “Nuke tehran” comment up there for a day or two (and i think it was the most recommended). thats pretty much unthinkable on the light-touch regulated B-BBC…
i think thats because when you post on here you are not talking TO B-BBC – you are talking to the other commenters on here. and the other commenters will tear you to shreds if your arguments are not up to scratch.
with HYS you are talking TO the BBC and you arent even sure that your comments will be posted anyway. hence it just turns into unaccountable ranting….
funny that eh?
the law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head.
a tightly regulated BBC HYS = unaccountable ranting.
an extremely light touch forum like B-BBC = reasoned and measured comment
The Trouble With Islam
Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.
But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies. Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam. Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq. Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom. One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists’ defense.
More
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009890
” IiD | 03.04.07 – 2:47 pm ”
yeah its weird. must be in my genes or something , but i cant get enough of the traditional English pub in the countryside, by a river preferably, with a pint of nice warm ale in hand.
i’m probably one of the very few irishmen that cant stand Guiness. give me English ale anyday. love the stuff!
Martin (Belam): If you read this – I’m wondering if you could find out why the “In depth: Muslims in Europe” is still on the Europe section homepage. I know I’m not the only person on here who’s baffled by that.
I live the Irish brown ales but I much prefer Belgium Trapist Ales that you get over here….
I know it’s terribly O/T but is Greene King and Ringwood still a going concern?
And can anybody recommend good pub chains in Northumbria and Dumfries way? Also the names of any good local brews?
I really hate the “Frog and Lettuce” type chains with the kiddies…..
sorry spelling-I live the Irish brown ales.
It’s really difficult learning Dutch and typing English…..
IiD writes:
“Do you think we need to be a bit more “pro-active” in that respect?”
Sadly, the Corporation has proved more than resilient when this has been tried in the past. Hard evidence of a pro-EU bias, for example, has been compiled several times (even one of the BBC’s own reports admitted it! http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?m=200501) but nothing changes.
Certainly, hard evidence that, for example, the BBC consistently favours outside commentators from Leftist newspapers would help – but I really feel the problem is so culturally ingrained that the only thing one can hope for is not reform from within but an externally imposed solution.
This might involve a removal of the Licence Fee by a future government, the part (or full) privatisation of the Corporation, or perhaps the establishment of an external monitoring body with power to enforce a better balance. I suppose I should add, in fairness, that I have no confidence in that last suggestion.
In short, while I feel evidence would help, I wouldn’t get my hopes up!
Biodegradable 2:29 pm
Hag sameah to you too and other yids on this forum.
Archduke so sorry its-love
GC….I suppose the key to knowing that is Balen.
It really is the smoking gun.
Would this explain why Martin has kindly provided them with a wonderful bio on us-because we know that it all hangs around that issue and we are the only ones really focused on that?
Hmm…wether we like it or not we are going to get the same treatment as Order Order at some-point in the future.
Does anybody agree?
“Now you tell me, Martin Belam • since you read this blog • where does the anti-Semitic buck stop at the BBC?”
Bryan
Yeah – all these points are utterly valid. But Belam deserves recognition for even taking on the idea that the BBC can be anti-semitic (contrast with John Reith’s absolute state of often aggressive denial). Most beeboids lazily assume that because there’s so many Jewish people working there, they simply CAN’T be antisemitic – end of. And there is a pernicious brand of denial that will counter any claim of anti Israel bias with – oh there’s a Jew crying anti-semitism again, suppressing the ‘crimes’ of Israel. (I’ve personally experienced a lot of that). Belam is being fair (if limited) in his judgement and deserves some credit.
Anyway – Happy Passover to BioD and all Jewish friends on B-BBC – here’s to the auld Anglo-Irish-Jewish alliance (Archduke – check out Tom Baker – son of a Jewish sailor and Irish mum).
You going to make an offical complaint?
IiD | 03.04.07 – 2:52 pm,
Hell, I dunno. I have made official complaints before and only ever got one or two brush-off type responses, predictably and probably intentionally missing the main point of the complaint. Also, I have quite a list I’d have to compile, stretching back a while and I think it’s probably better to strike while the iron is hot.
They might take me more seriously if I lived in the UK.
They might take me more seriously if I lived in the UK.
Bryan | 03.04.07 – 3:18 pm |
I live in the UK – and believe me they don’t.
Here Here Oscar….
I’m sure “John Reith” is Alan Connor from Newsnight/Magazine/Daily Politics…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/6228661.stm
a tightly regulated BBC HYS = unaccountable ranting.
an extremely light touch forum like B-BBC = reasoned and measured comment
archduke | 03.04.07 – 2:55 pm
Interesting. Funny, though I’ve never really consciously thought about it, that’s a large part of the reason why I like this blog and post here far more than directly to BBC forums.
here’s to the auld Anglo-Irish-Jewish alliance (Archduke – check out Tom Baker – son of a Jewish sailor and Irish mum).
Oscar | 03.04.07 – 3:14 pm
I’ll drink to that!
One of my cousins, a Cohen, is married to a Murphy.
I’m sure archduke knows the joke about the Jewish family that move to Belfast?
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”, ask the locals of their new neighbours.
“We’re Jewish”, reply the new arrivals.
But are you Jewish Catholic or Jewish Protestant?”, they insist.
I’m sure “John Reith” is Alan Connor from Newsnight/Magazine/Daily Politics…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/progr…ics/ 6228661.stm
IiD | 03.04.07 – 3:22 pm
I don’t think so, if he were he surely would have mentioned B-BBC.
The B-BBC is not responsible for the content of BBC websites. 😛
B-Ber’s
I’m back this evening so I’ll catch up with you all after Newsnight
Catch you laters
But Belam deserves recognition for even taking on the idea that the BBC can be anti-semitic (contrast with John Reith’s absolute state of often aggressive denial).
Oscar | 03.04.07 – 3:14 pm
True. That’s why I prepared him a detailed rebuttal. If he doesn’t come back to me here I may plonk the links on his blog. There is an opening up on the part of BBC-ites that would have been unthinkable just a few years back. The Web, naturally, has a helluvah lot to do with that.
yeah heard about that one alright.
its a classic. (and with a grain of truth in it)
the other old joke is the one about the annual general meeting of the Irish Communist Party.
one half of delegates are really MI5, the other half are Irish Special Branch, with the politiburo executive on the podium being a mix of KGB and CIA.
” disillusioned_german | 03.04.07 – 3:03 pm ”
yup. “muslims in europe” is still on there – under “features”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/default.stm
clicks through to here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/europe/2005/muslims_in_europe/default.stm
A happy Passover to all my Jewish friends here, Leshana Haba B’ Yerushalayim!
Biodegradable | 03.04.07 – 2:29 pm |
Don’t forget your lapsed Christian friends.
Happy Passover Bio.
Must off now to feed the ducks.
“Oscar | 03.04.07 – 3:14 pm”
and my i express a happy passover to all our Jewish and Israeli friends as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover
it started yesterday. i had no idea it was on.
running on from the “paddys day watch” , i’ll now do a “passover watch”…
hmmm.. no mention here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/default.stm
interesting. if you go to the “religion & ethics” news page and filter by “jewish”, you get nothing about passover
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/news/include.shtml?jewish
Don’t forget your lapsed Christian friends.
Happy Passover Bio.
Must off now to feed the ducks.
TPO | 03.04.07 – 3:44 pm
Sorry, should have said it before:
Happy Easter/Holy Week! 😉
I’m off too to “do things”, but before I do here’s the latest demand for an apology, again the use of ‘scare quotes’ around something that nobody has actually said:
MP slammed over ‘fat city’ slur
The bottom line is a killer:
Alan Knobel, substance misuse manager for the Safer Portsmouth Partnership, said: “It’s important that we challenge general statements about drug use in the city.
“It isn’t right to say we have a drug problem in the city as the figures do not hold out when we compare the city to other areas.”
So, according to the “substance misuse manager” there isn’t a drugs problem.
That’ll be why there’s a need for said “substance misuse manager”!
“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them”.
even more intesting – LOTS of passover links on google news. none of them from the bbc.
http://www.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=passover&btnG=Search+News
President Bush issued a passover greeting yesterday:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070402-7.html
not a whiff of it on here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/default.stm
A: So, this blog is no more than half a dozen obsessed dozen cranks.
B: Yes, and very few of them brush their teeth.
A: I see, so the BBC …
B: Yes those critics are astro-turf paranoiacs.
Whichever one of those cranks above mentioned the Mufti of Jerusalem, al-Hajj Amin al-Husayni, yes this is notorious Jewish spin, as is often the case its substance is minimal, relying on repetition and reinforcement to make it stick, I think you will find that his co-operation with the fascists was limited to taking their money and giving nothing in return, a few feeble attacks on pipelines which were quickly repaired and had no effect, and which they would probably done in any case to irk the British without Mussolini’s intervention, then nothing. Far greater were the Zionist links with the fascists which included unqualified support, yes incredibly, financing them certainly through rigged capital exports to Palestine, acting as agents for the sale of German goods abroad, and even during the late 1930’s Jewish capitalists in Palestine were using Nazi shipping to transport their citrus and other exports to Germany and Holland. The Zionists wilfully let pass any opportunity to oppose the fascists in the slightest or co-operate with other groups such as the socialists and communists who were the core of anti-fascism and its most effective opposition. It is widely thought that a boycott in America against German goods and businesses would have ended Hitler’s reign by the middle of the 1930s, the Zionist movement shrank from any such organised opposition to the Fascists abroad. It is true that repression and pogroms in Poland had convinced those on the extremes of Jewish politics, the Zionists, who were now in the driving seat that opposition was secondary to their goal of achieving a Jewish State, displacing the Arab people (though much worse disguised by the euphemism ‘transfer’ was to come) and fighting the British with grisly terrorism who were holding back immigration which was justifiably opposed by the original inhabitants of Palestine and which the economic and social constraints in Palestine would be unable to acomodate. Always welcome were the £1000 capitalists some of which would find its way into public works for the social and infrastructure improvements argued as necessary in the Peel Report, but Weizmann regarded those who they would not lift a finger to save, either through old-age (30 was considered past it), opposition to extablishment of a Jewish state through force, who did not speak Hebrew or who might in the short term be unemployed, infact the great majority of Europe’s Jews, as “moral dust”. Why were so many of the share of the treasured immigration certificates distributed by the Zionist organisations given to U.S. and British Jews who were in no particular danger?
No, to whichever muppet mentioned some Arabic words or were they Hebrew, I don’t speak or read-write those languages, kindly demonstrate your obviously superior knowledge and tell us the meaning of those words, and then tell me just exactly how they are even remotely relevant. Languages and religion merely divide and create friction. I don’t care what they mean, I’m sure though you can use them to justify whatever you like in thoughts or actions.
No to the other muppet who mentioned playing with bombs, I am not a Muslim, I am from the West of Scotland and an atheist from mixed Catholic and Protestant parents, does my religion have anything to do with it? Only in your febrile brain which demonises and labels anyone and everyone I find the religions I have gleaned any knowledge of to be quite unappealing, the more extremist and insular, the worse they get, extremist Islams attitudes to women and to homosexuality are particularly abhorrent.
I have failed to address these comments to the particular posters concerned as I suspect many of them are probably just the same persons morphing freely as the case may suit.
hmmm.. no mention here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world…ast/ default.stm
archduke | 03.04.07 – 3:48 pm
That’ll be because Katya Adler and her office aren’t monitoring the Israeli press this week ;-/
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/5226604718258340207/#336069
i’ll now do a “passover watch”…
hmmm.. no mention here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world…ast/ default.stm
archduke
Of course if it was Ramadan it would be headline news for days (remember this year’s hajj?). Altho’ Muslims do like to celebrate Passover – with a few suicide bomb attacks and a bit of Jewish graveyard desecration.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1173879233202&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
” Biodegradable | 03.04.07 – 3:54 pm”
i dont have the link right now, but apparently the cheapest place to buy Ecstasy last year was – Portsmouth.
1 quid a tab apparently.
B: Yes, and very few of them brush their teeth.
TAM2 | 03.04.07 – 3:59 pm
Ah-ha, He/she/it can see us through our computer screens!
the Mufti of Jerusalem, al-Hajj Amin al-Husayni, yes this is notorious Jewish spin…
Ah yes, that notorious Jewish ‘spin’ about Yasser Arafat’s uncle:
Please seek professional help – your mind (such as it is) is seriously warped.
“TAM2 | 03.04.07 – 3:59 pm ”
so what? the Zionists were fighting the British in Palestine. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Hello Churchill allying with Stalin in WW2?
at the time (late 1930s/early 1940s) Nazi policy was to expell Jews from Europe not to exterminate them.
Madasgascar was suggested as a new homeland – but the Lehi (otherwise known as the Stern Gang) made contact with the Nazis and suggested Palestine.
But when it became clear to the Nazis that mass expulsion to Israel was not possible because of British control of that territory (or indeed mass explusion to any other non-Reich country) that the Wannasee conference was held, chaired by Adolf Eichmann.
It was during that conference that industrial scale extermination was decided upon.
One cannot know how history might have turned out , but I deeply suspect that the holocaust might never have happened if the British in Palestine had operated an open-door policy to Jewish refugees.