Please use this thread for off-topic, but preferably BBC related, comments. Please keep comments on other threads to the topic at hand. N.B. this is not an invitation for general off-topic comments – our aim is to maintain order and clarity on the topic-specific threads. This post will remain at or near the top of the blog. Please scroll down to find new topic-specific posts.
Open thread – for comments of general Biased BBC interest:
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http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5968&&edition=2&ttl=20070406160844
Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 14:10 GMT 15:10 UK
why does the BBC censor this board and refuse to put up anything that is critical of bbc coverage? shoudn’t the posts simply comply with rules even though it may show faults within the bbc reporting? very fishy…
viewer and fee payer, london
Recommended by 20 people
So much for the moonbats who claim that Iran treated the 15 better than the US treats prisoners at G’mo, like this dimwit:
Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 14:08 GMT 15:08 UK
I would like to ask those who were showing so much understanding towards the hostages and claiming that they must have been intimidated and tortured, what do they think now? The
torture and intimidation amounted to goodie bags and new suits. As for the support from the Ministry of Defence, I think they are worried that public disgust at the conduct of these young people will lead to their own dismissal. Court martials are the only way Britain can redeem itself now.
Emmie Lloyd, United Kingdom
Recommended by 6 people
UK captives tell of ill treatment
Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said.
They were lined up while weapons were cocked, making them “fear the worst”, two of the 15 crew revealed.
The crew were told if they did not admit they were in Iranian waters when captured that they faced seven years in prison, a press conference heard.
A couple of points that came out during the press conference were NOT reported by Al Beeb for some unknown reason; the marines’ and sailors’ frquent reference to Iranians playing ‘mind games’, and in particular the fact that as soon as they arrived in Tehran LS Faye Turney was put in a cell on her own and told that the rest of the crew had been freed and were on their way home. She was led to believe that for four days.
“Here is a copy of the speech Congressman Joe Sestak should give (but won’t) at the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) banquet Saturday. I am honored to be here today — despite what some people are saying — and to have the chance to talk to you all about something that concerns us all”.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18166044&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18168&rfi=6
Biodegradable writes:
“A couple of points that came out during the press conference were NOT reported by Al Beeb for some unknown reason; the marines’ and sailors’ frquent reference to Iranians playing ‘mind games’, and in particular the fact that as soon as they arrived in Tehran LS Faye Turney was put in a cell on her own and told that the rest of the crew had been freed and were on their way home. She was led to believe that for four days.”
In fairness to the BBC (who, me? ) On R5 they did cover this.
What we did not hear, however, was anything from the usual suspects complaining about inhumane tratment, illegal detention, breaches of ‘human rights’ and all the rest.
And do you know what? I bet we never do.
The Elitist and another top recommended post (so far)
“Has the word “terrorism” lost its meaning?
What do people mean when they describe something as “terrorism”?
“Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 14:40 GMT 15:40 UK
The EU has ‘advised’ us to stop saying ‘Islamic’ Terrorists or linking bombings by Muslims, with Muslims or Islam. If we can’t even name the bombers, we may aswell just hand our country over now.
I consider the political shenanigans by Muslims in the UK, as a form of Terrorism. The threat of a backlash from Muslim students is causing schools to drop education about the Holocaust for example. A teacher friend of mine in France has had to revert to her maiden name because she’s married to a Jew
The Elitist
Recommended by 34 people”
Also this one sums things up nicly
“Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 15:17 GMT 16:17 UK
Just wondering, what does the BBC know about the word Terrorism?
Aren’t they the ones that give the title of “Militants” to Terrorists?
Lostin Space
Recommended by 23 people ”
Hits the nail on the head
Link to above:
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=5992&edition=1&ttl=20070406182245&#paginator
Can anyone tell me if this quote is correct or a joke – I firsdt read it on Samizdata, but it has again surface here:
“Iran releases Brit hostages
and on this day, I became deeply ashamed of my English blood. Why?
*****************************************
“……all that remains for me to do is join in with the rest of the nation in offering up our prayers and thanks to merciful Allah and his last prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him. Thank you.”
– British Prime Minister Tony Blair
This astounding subjugation signals the end of the beginning of the surrender by the democratic West to Islam.”
http://awesternheart.blogspot.com/
I have just found out that this quote was not correct – thank God for small mercies.
“Yesterday I posted a quote I took from Samizdata blog site. I have since tried to get a second source for the quote and failed. My apologies to Tony Blair for publishing an untruth, so I now have published his full speech taken from the official No 10 site. It is still a weasel mouthed speech, but not as bad as what I had posted previously.”
http://middle-agedwhitemale.blogspot.com/
In fairness to the BBC (who, me? ) On R5 they did cover this.
GCooper | 06.04.07 – 5:32 pm
Steady on, we’ll lose our hard earned reputation for bigotry, libel and paranoia at B-BBC! 😉
I’ve only seen the news.bbc.co.uk web site, haven’t heard any transmitted output other than the news conference.
I don’t suppose we’ll see any complaints to the Iranians, that was probably part of the deal.
They’ve added the part about Faye Turney in now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6533069.stm
The only woman in the group, Leading Seaman Faye Turney, believed for at least four days that she was the only one still being held.
“Like all of us she has been exploited,” Cpt Air said.
Royal Marine Joe Tindell told how they feared for their lives in prison.
“We had a blindfold and plastic cuffs, hands behind our backs, heads against the wall. Basically there were weapons cocking. Someone, I’m not sure who, someone said, I quote ‘lads, lads I think we’re going to get executed’.”
“After that comment someone was sick and as far as I was concerned he had just had his throat cut.”
Lt Carman said they were only allowed to gather for a few hours together, in the full glare of Iranian media.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=1&edition=2&ttl=20070406193144&messageID=2615573�
I was amazed to see the T-word used on the BBC. I was going to comment but I see from jon’s post that others are doing admirably.
Still, maybe I’ll give it a go. They may even post my comment.
It’s possible that the reality of what Iran did is sinking in to their subconsciousness. Up to now they’ve had only the propaganda from obviously biased sources and ate it up because it fit their preconceptions of how things should be. The fact that the Iranians treated the soldiers badly in any way at all might have got a few heads at the BBC working. Maybe something will come of it. Maybe they’ll just spin it away to themselves and resume their blissful ignorance.
.
Littlejohn: Imagine leaving Stalag 13 with a lucky bag and thanking Mr Hitler
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/columnists/dailymail.html?in_article_id=446978&in_page_id=1790
.
We were blindfolded, bound and stripped, say our sailors
* We were blindfolded and subjected to interrogation
* We were told we faced seven years in prison if we did not ‘confess’
* Iranians entered Iraqi waters deliberately to detain us. Fighting back was not an option
* We were 1.7 nautical miles away from Iranian waters
* We were under psychological pressure and mind games
* Faye Turney was isolated in a cell away from the rest of the crew
* Iranian state TV says crew’s comments were ‘dictated’ by British Ministry of Defence
The British sailors released by Iran have today told how they were kidnapped and blindfolded and subjected to ‘constant psychological pressure’.
The sailors and marines were told if they did not admit they had strayed into Iranian waters they faced seven years in prison.
More
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=447110&in_page_id=1770
over 1000 comments… pretty sure thats the first time thats happened.
maybe its time to move to a forum based comment system? what do other folks on here think?
” George of the Jungle | 06.04.07 – 12:42 pm |”
i appreciate your comments (very interesting) and i am on your side, believe me. but this is a forum for bbc bias. not for commenting in DEPTH on islam. there are plenty of other places to do that – like LGF or jihadwatch.
lets not give the Beeboids another excuse to dismiss and ignore us.
its fine to just point out the overwhelming pro-islam bias on the bbc – its another thing to start getting into a full polemic on whats wrong with islam on here. lets keep it focused. thanks.
I’m noticing a helluva lot of comments posted by the likes of Gary from Manchester which make me suspect that English is not his first language.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=446679&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811&expand=true#StartComments
Phrases like “USA soldiers” are just not right. Others which I’ve noted include omissions of definite and indefinite articles (no ‘a’ or ‘the’ before nouns). All such posts/comments are excrutiatingly anti-American yet purport to be written by a Briton. Is anyone else noticing this?
Back to the release of our 15 ‘heroes’: it appears that Blair has turned the Navy into the same bunch of useless, snivelling wimps as the police – risk assessments preventing hostage-release ops etc. I know that the riposte will be that I’m not there and it’s true BUT the people who are there are supposed to be good at what they’re supposed to do, and that means firing on our enemies.
“We were under psychological pressure and mind games”
so the iranians didnt use physical force against them?
sorry folks, and i hate to criticise our armed forces, but i would have expected a BIT of resistance to “mind games”.
doesnt look as if they even got a severe physical beating – they gave in waaaay before that.
the Revolutionary Guards must be laughing their asses off our “marines”… and this has got serious implications for the future. if they think we’re wimps – i would guess that they now think that Basra is for the taking.
Having seen the news conference, I can now (sort of) understand why they didn’t resist the Iranians when they were captured. Since they were heavily outgunned, resistance would have been suicidal.
But once they were in Iranian hands, they should have buttoned their lips. They gave in way too easily and told them (and the world) that they were in Iranian waters when they knew that was a lie. At that stage, they were just looking after their own skins and to hell with honour and Queen and country.
And then of course they had to bow and grovel before that psychotic little terrorist, Ahmedinejad.
I wonder if they have any qualms about the huge price they paid for their freedom. They have done an enormous amount of damage to the well-deserved British reputation for true grit and courage.
I have no doubt the BBC is delighted with their performance.
archduke writes:
“maybe its time to move to a forum based comment system? what do other folks on here think?”
There does seem to be some sort of ‘issue’ here, I must say. Fewer and fewer posts from the principles and longer and longer comment threads, with which haloscan appears to have problems.
I hate to sound ungrateful as B-BBC performs a vital function, but it would be appreciated if this difficulty with comments could be addressed somehow.
” Bryan | 06.04.07 – 10:32 pm”
watch the “wind that shakes the barley” to see an example of resisting questioning. and it wasnt “psychological mind games” either…
whether you like the film or not,or agree with Ken Loach or not, just watch the bit about the nails being pulled out. thats actually based on numerous documented cases. watch it – and compare and contrast. i’m sure lots of folks on here can point out S.O.E. examples in WW2 as well, or Paras under SS torture and such like…
but that film scene is probably the most harrowing i’ve seen in a long while – so thats why i’m pointing it out.
just to clarify – it seems to me as if folks are joining the forces for a “career” rather than “cause”…
i think that makes a heck of difference. you might as well just have a conscript army.
“just to clarify – it seems to me as if folks are joining the forces for a “career” rather than “cause”…”
Not sure about that archduke. There are many who DO join just for the pay etc but there are still a great many who join for all the old reasons – travel, comradeship, exciting adventure etc as well as wanting to make a difference. I was one!
But again and again the BBC are happy to splash anti military stories worldwide undermining our military. No wonder people think they can take us on and win nowadays.
Think fake rape claims against the Army in Kenya – oodles of articles and so on but one measly begrudging quickly hidden article about the truth coming out that the allegations were lies and the whole thing was pushed by a British lawyer in the same way that many of these allegations about Iraqis being tortured etc are being pushed by a British lawyer who time and time again provides loads of witnesses who are then found to be lying. Why aren’t the BBC investigating these lawyers instead of claiming that the Forces are useless or evil or stupid etc etc?
Again and again because of the BBC and other British media reports we get people like Michelle Malkin making snide stupid comments on her (comment free) blog in the USA about the Marines and sailors and claiming that the US Marines would never have succumbed. Yeah right. Thus speaks a real military expert….silly moo. Now many Yanks think our Marines are wimps as well.
Did you see the two photos in the Telegraph and Guardian? The Torygraph published a small cropped photo showing happy smiling Brits, the Guardian one shows hordes of Iranian minders around the same small group but controlling the process. Which was more truthful? And guess which version the BBC used…..?
” dave t | Homepage | 06.04.07 – 11:37 pm |”
i agree with what you said. i really do.
all the more reason why our troops should be instructed IN DEPTH in how to resist being manipulated.
i dont blame the troops personally – i blame the training that they are getting from their superiors.
the dhimmi BBC didnt exactly help matters either.
There have been some suggestions today, e.g. by Martin Bright of ‘New Statesman’, that UK government
is beginning to see the light on the real nature of the Islamic jihad threat. I disagreed in an earlier comment today.
For an up-to-date digest of the problem, see:
“US: Homeland Security and the British Islamist Threat” ( 6 Apr.),by Adrian Morgan
http://westernresistance.com
alan -> more evidence that we’re “baggage” to the yanks. unless we get it sorted out over here pronto.
lets face it – the yanks dont “need” that “special relationship”. they can quite easily start getting the south koreans and japanese onside instead.
Allan@Aberdeen:
I’m noticing a helluva lot of comments posted by the likes of Gary from Manchester which make me suspect that English is not his first language.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ pages…e#StartComments
Phrases like “USA soldiers” are just not right. Others which I’ve noted include omissions of definite and indefinite articles (no ‘a’ or ‘the’ before nouns). All such posts/comments are excrutiatingly anti-American yet purport to be written by a Briton. Is anyone else noticing this?
Yes we have noticed, see above:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/5304548027124912145/#335954
Or directly:
http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD150807
I’ve noticed a lot of Anglo-Saxon names with bad grammar posting from Cardiff.
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/5304548027124912145/#336548
Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 20:10 GMT 21:10 UK
It’s blatantly obvious that the sailors and british media and govt will come out with all sorts of tripe about how the priosners were manhandled. However, the smiles and jovial nature of their conduct on camera in iran is enough proof that these are all just exaggerations of a shameless government victimised by it’s own delusions…
Ziggy, Cardiff
Recommended by 15 people
Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 19:54 GMT 20:54 UK
Can anyone actually point out the difference between the actions of Iran and the USA?
No?
Thought not.
tom riley, cardiff, United Kingdom
Recommended by 7 people
Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 17:37 GMT 18:37 UK
David Mashburn said:”It is clear that they were not exactly treated as house guests by Iran. They were kidnapped, held in a secret location, denied consular visits, etc. Until you have been held hostage by a group of thug…Iran must be called to account for their action of …kidnapping. But with a spineless UN, there is no chance. It will happen again. And then what???” Put USA in the place of Iran and we have exactly what the USA, with our help, have been upt for years now.
Mark, Cardiff
Recommended by 14 people
Working link:
Islamist Website Instructs Mujahideen in Using Popular U.S. Web Forums to Foster Anti-War Sentiment among Americans
Israel fires missiles into Gaza
Residents said the missiles targeted militants near the Jabaliya refugee camp, in what they called the worst incident since last November’s truce.
Worse than the incidents of fighting between Hamas and Fateh that has left scores dead, including many children?
Worse than this?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1173879262350&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Is it possible that the postings from Cardiff come from “Welsh Nationalists”? – I am not trying to put down the Welsh (my grandfather came from Wales), but they may have a vested interest in putting down what they see as an English Government. After all just look at the SNP leader.
I just find it incredible that most of the anti-west comments seem to come from Wales: e.g.
“I am glad to see the crew back unharmed. But some points can be made. First, despite their accounts of ‘mistreatment’, they were looked after rather better than had they been held some western countries, so I hope there won’t be too much self righteous nonsense spouted in the days a head. Second, there was something unusual about their prepared statements – as if they had to stick to a script and they looked uncomfortable with it. Just an observation that is all.
[TimCaerwys], Mold, Wales, United Kingdom
Recommended by 13 people ”
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=1&threadID=5968&start=30&tstart=0&edition=1&ttl=20070407015804&#paginator
Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 17:33 GMT 18:33 UK
So, who would you rather be held by?
The Iranians, assuming the truth of what our marines and sailors said happened to them, or the Americans at Gitmo, Abu Graib or any number of secret CIA prisons? Who looks like the barbarians when that comparison is made?
Dirk Bruere, Bedford
Recommended by 48 people
I wonder if this “Dirk Bruere” is the same as this one?
http://www.neopax.com/
Seems like a convert
And another interesting one:
“Added: Friday, 6 April, 2007, 17:18 GMT 18:18 UK
I remember not so long ago watching a film of British soldiers brutalising a group of Iraqi teenagers in their own country and they got off scott free. The British MI5 turned a British resident into the the US to have him taken to Gitmo where he still is today. The Brits are complicit in the rendition flights by the US and the Brits and Australia are complicit in the murders of over 600,000 Iraqis in an illegal invasion.
Besides, the government knew they were spying.
Marilyn Shepherd, Adelaide, Australia”
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=1&threadID=5968&start=75&tstart=0&edition=1&ttl=20070407015804&#paginator
Could this be:
“Marilyn Shepherd was born in Pinnaroo SA in early 1953 to children of migrants from England, Wales, Silesia, Scotland, Cornwall, France and possibly Ireland – a Heinz 57 variety. Single mother to Rebeka, aged 30 and Myles aged 22, nana of Stephanie and Justine both 13, Zachary, aged 9 and Mikaela aged 3.
Marilyn was an anti-war activist from the Vietnam era, Franklin River campaigner, former staffer to Senator John Coulter during the ATSIC negotiations and war crimes legislation, in the days before refugees were criminals, before the concentration camps.”
Dog Caught Between Two Masters
A delightful consequence of the Capture of 15 Sailors and Marines by the Islamic Regime’s Pasdar Naval Force is sesing Al Beeb squirming to report a story acceptable to its Forgien Office sponsors and its Islamic Regime Masters … resulting in addled reporting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/
“They were lined up while weapons were cocked, making them “fear the worst”, one of the 15 freed sailors revealed.
The crew were told that if they did not admit they were in Iranian waters when captured that they faced seven years in prison, a press conference heard.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6533907.stm
“We are sorry that Britain has no knowledge about Islamic culture and Iranian civilisation to understand the reason Iran pardoned the British soldiers.”
Jon:
Is it possible that the postings from Cardiff come from “Welsh Nationalists”?
If English is their second language it could explain some of the odd grammar and syntax 😉
Comparing the 15 servicemen’s treatment with that of ‘enemy combatants’ in Guantanamo is a good example of the madness of moral equivalence gone mad.
The former were UK military performing a UN sanctioned task – the latter are (alleged) terrorists rounded up while (allegedly) engaged in terrorist action. But in the current climate of self-hate and “Bushitler and Bliar are war criminals” the enemy are the friends of our misguided citizens.
Europe’s expensive flop:
Carriers ponder compensation claims against Airbus for overweight aircraft
“Airlines are considering suing Airbus after the aircraft manufacturer warned them that the front-end of the A340-600 was dangerously overweight,
If the airlines can prove their case, they could claim hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation from Airbus
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article1624119.ece
in response to > archduke | 06.04.07 – 9:17 pm |
Thanks for the advice, archduke, it is taken under consideration. I am familiar with the Jihadwatch web site, but what on earth is LGF? Please clarify.
The reason I posted my long thing in-depth on what is wrong with Islam, was twofold – one, to respond to the very first comment in the thread; and two, to try to help more people be aware of the very real threat of Islam to the UK and Western civilisations.
Thanks for the pointer, though. It is taken as good advice.
George, LGF is Little Green Footballs – an American blog that covers the Global Jihad, Leftist appeasement and the cultural insanity currently gripping the West. Probably one of the most widely-read anti-Jihad blogs in the world today and essential reading.
This is currently the main headline on Al-BBC’s Middle East newspage..
“Israel fires missiles into Gaza”
Strangely Al-Beeb have never made the hundreds of Palestinian rockets launched into Israel on a daily basis headline news. I wonder why Al-Beeb consider Israeli rockets worthy of headlines but not Palestinian ones….couldn’t be bias could it ?
I wonder why Al-Beeb consider Israeli rockets worthy of headlines but not Palestinian ones….couldn’t be bias could it ?
I wondered if the abduction of Alan Johnstone…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6534273.stm
…might lead the Beeb to re-examine their attitudes towards the Palestinians.
Apparently not. Looks like the bias is so deeply ingrained it will take more than the abduction of one of their staff by these thugs before they have a Damascene conversion.
” terry johnson | 07.04.07 – 6:28 am |”
and even though its american based, there are rather a lot of brits, aussies, russians, dutch , germans etc on there. its readership is very global.
archduke | 06.04.07 – 11:17 pm,
At the moment I’m not geared to the movie watching scene having cancelled cable TV and only possessing a non-functioning VCR.
(If I lived in Britain I could just give the BBC the finger re the licence fee. Unless, of course, they could nab me for watching the occasional video clip on the internet.)
But thanks for the info anyway.
terry johnson | 07.04.07 – 6:36 am,
Maybe we should be thankful that the BBC doesn’t describe Israeli missiles as “deadly and accurate” since they insist on the default description of Kassams as “crude” and “home-made”.
I still don’t get that. The Starchaser 3 was a home-made rocket but you wouldn’t call that crude…
Even crude rockets are deadly. Probably moreso, since they would pack in more explosives than strictly necessary in order to do the same job that a more advanced, or refined, rocket would. Or do the BBC just not know the meaning of the word?
They call paestinian rockets crude to elicit, what, sympathy? Would they apply the same term to Israeli rockets in the derogatory sense if they could?
Probably. I see the purpose of the “crude” terminology as being simply to highlight the unequal effectiveness of Palestinian as opposed to Israeli weapons – ignoring, of course, the assymetric nature of Palestinian terrorism.
http://www.debka.com/
In northern Gaza, a band of terrorists was attacked by an Israeli helicopter as they planted an explosive device on the Israeli border fence. The Palestinians report one death. Egypt criticized Israel for the attack. During the informal six-month ceasefire the Palestinians have planted 40 of these devices.
Ceasefire:
We cease, they fire.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6540433.stm
“about 100,000 viewings of clips saying they show Gordon Brown picking his nose.”
‘Saying’ they show Gordon Brown picking his nose? I’m pretty sure they just show him picking his nose in the House of Commons…
No shit…how can a picture “say” something…..it either shows it, or it does not…
Once again, the Brown Broadcasting Corp acting as slaves to their Nixon like Master…
On your knees Beeboids, here is the press release for today, now read it out like good little slaves…..
Real Journalists need not apply……
Described as ‘crude’ and ‘homemade’ because, and let me take a wild stab in the dark here, they are ‘crude’ and ‘homemade’.
That description suggests to me that they may be less accurate, but not necessarily less damaging. They obviously dont have sophisticated targetting systems but most modern weapons have certain rules which ‘crude’ and ‘homemade’ weapons dont have to comply with. A homemade bomb can be filled with nails or ballbearings to maximise damage and cause widespread injury. The description is accurate, you can put any slant you want on it but that is your bias and not the BBC’s.
Your views about Muslims are made very clear