Please use this thread for off-topic, but preferably BBC related, comments. Please keep comments on other threads to the topic at hand. N.B. this is not an invitation for general off-topic comments – our aim is to maintain order and clarity on the topic-specific threads. This post will remain at or near the top of the blog. Please scroll down to find new topic-specific posts.
While I’m here, a little plug for my next post coming up in a few minutes. It’s about the BBC’s readiness to entertain a foolish anti-Israeli conspiracy theory about the Entebbe raid. My view is that, given that we have had thirty-plus years of Palestinian terrorism, I would really need rather a lot of evidence to take seriously the claim that what appeared to be Palestinian terrorism was actually a plot concocted in secret alliance with its apparent victims. Unlike the BBC who report this claim seriously ‘cos some guy said it.
I am equally sceptical and for the same reason of the claims made by some commenters below that Alan Johnston must have engineered his own kidnap because he apparently set out to meet his kidnappers. He was trying to get a story. That’s how Daniel Pearl was kidnapped, too. Palestinian/Islamist terrorists kidnapping people is not so rare an event as to require convoluted explanations.
And I’ve banned “the_camp_commandant” for nastiness on this subject unleavened by any trace of legitimate debate.
They just keep piling it on…
Mid-East marks start of 1967 War
In an extraordinary showdown on the eve of war, Israeli generals swore and shouted at the prime minister that Israel had to strike first to be sure of victory.
Really?
Source please BBC.
The Golan Heights and Palestinian territory in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem remain under its control to this day.
Lies and simply more damn lies!
The West Bank and East Jerusalem had been under Jordanian control. Gaza was under Egyptian control.
There was no “Palestinian territory” in 1967, or before.
But Israel banned a Palestinian conference due to be held in East Jerusalem.
Police deployed around the hotel hosting the conference, titled “Jerusalem, the capital of the Palestinian state, how to transform slogans into reality”, notifying the organisers of the ban.
More events will be held throughout the week, culminating in anti-occupation protests around the world on Saturday.
I bet!
But in Egypt there are no official events to mark the anniversary or the sacrifice of those who died – just the occasional newspaper article recalling what happened.
So exactly where else in the “Middle East” is this “marking” of the start of the 1967 war taking place, apart from in Israel?
More lies and damn lies:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6721205.stm
Extensive Palestinian rocket fire from Gaza has killed two Israelis in the last month and retaliatory Israeli military operations have killed about 50 Palestinians, many of them Hamas fighters.
No BBC, three Israelis
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1180527969679&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
http://bakadiary.blogspot.com/2007/06/disproportionality.html
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/000860.html
BioD
Add to the above that Israel is not in occupation of Gaza.
The only Israeli military personnel there is a solitary kidnapped one.
Israel has every right to seal its international border as does every other nation, that does not make it an occupier any more than North Korea is occupying South Korea.
Gaza has another border – with Egypt, does that make Egypt the occupiers of Gaza.
Its the old Mussolini technique, repeat a lie often enough and hope it gets believed, and in many quarters it actually does!
Also, note how Al-Beeb refrains from mentioning that all the Israeli dead were civilians.
It has no such problem when it comes to Hamas.
The BBC: Even handed and impartial except if you are Israeli.
Add to the above that Israel is not in occupation of Gaza.
BaggieJonathan | 05.06.07 – 3:09 pm
Exactly. But instead the BBC constantly tells us that “according to International Law Israel is still the occupying power”.
So far nobody has shown me exactly which part of “International Law” says so.
The BBC: Even handed and impartial except if you are Israeli.
Battersea | 05.06.07 – 3:14 pm
There used to be a time when even though criticising “Israeli policy” the BBC and the left in general loved dead Jews – look at the number of documentaries on the Holocaust – now the mask has slipped and they can’t even show a little compassion and sympathy for dead Jews, even when they’re severely handicapped 13 year old children.
Talking of shock-sites, have you seen the meatspin video?
It’s Contrast & Compare time again:
Palestinians agree ceasefire plan
The Palestinian government says it has agreed on the terms of a ceasefire proposal it wants to put to Israel to end more than three weeks of violence.
It said all factions in the Hamas-led Cabinet supported the truce – which would have to cover all Palestinian territories, not just the Gaza Strip.
Hamas, Fatah fighters in gun battle near key Gaza crossing
Hamas and Fatah forces fought a two-and-a-half-hour long gun battle on Tuesday in the Gaza Strip near the Karni commercial crossing, the most serious flare-up in factional fighting in two weeks.
At least one member of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’s Presidential Guard was wounded in what the force described as an
attempt by Hamas to infiltrate a key position near Karni.
Hamas officials confirmed the gun battle but said the Presidential Guard initiated the exchange.
A senior Western security source who works with the Presidential Guard said several Hamas fighters were hurt.
Very interesting!
A senior Western security source who works with the Presidential Guard…
Hmmm…
I agree with my uncle.
Are the pro BBC guys saying this is all the same conspiracy against the BBC.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article2398870.ece
http://theinternetforum.co.uk/node/2515
Click to access independentpanelreport.pdf
http://theinternetforum.co.uk/node/2107
http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/rulings.htm
http://www.bbcwatch.co.uk/old.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,992236,00.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=582113
http://theinternetforum.co.uk/node/2051
http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/2066
http://theinternetforum.co.uk/node/1668
http://www.thecctv.org/thecctv/newsroom/bbcadmithomobias.htm
http://theinternetforum.co.uk/bbc/bias4.html
http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=593992007&bad=540865
http://www.emeraldinsight.com/Insight/viewContentItem.do?contentType=Article&hdAction=lnkhtml&contentId=1515346
And it goes on and on and on…
This is what I call a conspiracy theory:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3408801,00.html
Marie | 05.06.07 – 3:46 pm:
Marie, you forgot this one.
It concerns the biggest and most enduring documented identifiable case study of BBC bias of the lot – the BBC’s steadfast, unlawful, decade-long censorship of a plethora of important facts relating to the controversy that “helped bring down the last Conservative government”. Facts, which, taken together, constitute proof that The Guardian shored up the said controversy and perverted the official parliamentary inquiry into the said controversy with a plethora of lies and forged documents.
WTF does this “related internet link”
have to do with this BBC piece?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6721709.stm
I’ll guess it got left over from this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6713429.stm
£3.5billion/year for that sort of professionalism.
Cheap at half the price!
hys – “Britain Day”
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=6496&start=15&tstart=0&edition=1&ttl=20070605173403&#paginator
oh the irony. the two ministers proposing this are of Irish extraction.
made me laugh.
“Back in the main theater of this global war—the Middle East—Israeli forces continue their endless war against rocket-wielding imams and time-bomb terrorists who kill innocents for Allah or sport or whatever reason they use to rationalize their atrocities.
Contrary to what the radicals, revisionists and relativists say, this is not a war against Islam or an attempt by the West to subjugate Islamic people. In fact, it is Muslims who are doing most of the killing and bleeding and dying in this war. Consider the Iraqi and Afghan fronts, where self-style holy men justify and promote the slaughter of their fellow Muslims by the dozens and hundreds.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28603
archduke :
oh the irony. the two ministers proposing this are of Irish extraction.
made me laugh.
Hold up, guys!
I thought it was Muslims we dumped on. Been a while since the Irish got the old Glasgow kiss – now that we all love old Wogan, theme pubs, U2 and all.
Let’s go with the flow. Anyone dust off any Irish jokes?
Bryan, you must have an inexhaustible supply….
Biased BBC: Prejudice is such an ugly word.
.
On conspiracy theories, moderate muslims, and reaching out to hillhunt’s three friends:
Remember, do not feed the troll.
Bio
Just remind me again what nationality archduke is.
“WITH war forced upon it 40 years ago, Israel’s outnumbered forces fought a stunning lightning campaign and shattered its enemies on three fronts. The victory enabled Israel to survive. But now revisionist historians are re-inventing the Six-Day War as the source of Israel’s problems.
Their nonsense makes it sound as if, prior to June 1967, Israelis had lived in an Age of Aquarius, eating lotus blossoms amid friendly Bedouin neighbors who tucked them in at night. The critics also imply that, by some unexplained magic, Israel might have avoided war and its consequences.
Let’s remember the facts:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06052007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/six_day_war__40_years_on_opedcolumnists_ralph_peters.htm?page=1
“In the real world, outcomes aren’t perfect. There are no wars to end all wars. The proper question is, “Are you better off than before the shooting started?” Judged by that common-sense standard, Israel is vastly better off than it was on the eve of the Six-Day War. Thanks to the heroes of June 1967, Israel survived”.
Miracle enough.
Other conspiracy theories: John Lennon controls the Catholic church.
I’m not even sure what this Hillhunt is even talking about? As for this illiberal “Britishness lesson”, will they be tied to dole payments? Something nice and humiliating?
What planet is this government even on??
TPO:
Bio
Just remind me again what nationality archduke is.
Austrian, I believe.
Begorrah
Bio
Just remind me again what nationality archduke is.
TPO | 05.06.07 – 5:57 pm
He is indeed Irish.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6721401.stm
In an extraordinary showdown on the eve of war, Israeli generals swore and shouted at the prime minister that Israel had to strike first to be sure of victory.
Makes the Israeli military command sound like a blood-thirsty lot, doesn’t it?
I still can’t find any historical corroboration of that claim anywhere else.
John Reith, can you give me a source for that?
It’s dejavú all over again, and this time history’s being rewritten before its even happened:
Syria MP confirms preparation for war with Israel
A member of the Syrian parliament, Muhammad Habash, confirmed on Tuesday that his country was actively preparing for war with Israel, expected to break out in the summer, Israel Radio reported.
In an interview with Al Jazeera, Habash said it was no secret that the Syrian military was arming itself for the upcoming confrontation with the IDF.
He also claimed that the Israeli government was the one that wanted the war so that it could survive politically.
In other news, if the state broadcaster of the only democracy in the Middle East can come clean why can’t the state broadcaster of the oldest democracy in the world own up?
Editor Admits: We Slanted the News
I recently took issue with the BBC calling Hebron a “Palestinian city” and pointed out that Hebron had a history that far outdated Mohamed, the camel he rode in (to Mecca) on, and the mythical “Palestinian people”.
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1539
Newsnight tonight
The stuff you read on the internet. Do you believe it? Seriously? Why?
We’ll be hearing from the author of a new book about why much of what
you may be reading has all the editorial authority of graffiti on a
lavatory wall, and a Web defender will explain why the democratisation
of the web is so important.
(* Applies only to Muslims)
.
hillhunt | 05.06.07 – 1:29 pm |
no it doesn’t
it applies to (members of) ANY religion whose founder married a six year old and consummated the marriage when THE CHILD was nine years old
I have always thought that Wikipedia is a serious threat and should be destroyed.
http://www.aetherometry.com/antiwikipedia2/awp2_index.html
arch o’duke:
Apologies for not recognising your Irishness.
hys – “Britain Day”
oh the irony. the two ministers proposing this are of Irish extraction.
made me laugh.
In which case, I still need help.
Where is the irony in two British-born citizens who hold high office in our government proposing a national day to celebrate Britain’s values and achievements?
Biased BBC: British through and through. And through.
amimissingsomething:
Welcome aboard our campaign to make the BBC report fully on Muslim issues.
You’ll recall that I pressed JR to make sure that:
In future, all news stories about young family members should make absolutely clear whether or not they’re being sexually exploited by their adult in-laws.*
(* Applies only to Muslims)
Delighted that you have now clarified this issue. Thanks to your posting we now demand that:
it applies to (members of) ANY religion whose founder married a six year old and consummated the marriage when THE CHILD was nine years old
Done. And Done.
In future all BBC reporters must ask Muslim families whether their pubescent daughters are having it away with adult in-laws.
Progress. Progress!
Ever-impervious to the usual restraints of complaint or irony, the BBC’s ‘news’ website this evening carries the following on its ‘front page’:
“FEATURES, VIEWS, ANALYSIS –
Muslim perspective
What Britishness means to some in multi-cultural Britain.”
No doubt the views of Jains, Buddhists and those always volatile Odinists will follow…
Or, maybe they won’t…
Can we look forward to similar on the 40th anniversary of the Yom Kippur war?
Somehow I doubt it.
Though if we do it will be some equivalent of blatant aggression by Israel as their gonads assaulted their opponents knee that was merely in their house unannounced doing the plumbing.
BaggieJonathan | 05.06.07 – 11:48 am
I doubt it too Baggie – as Pounce has pointed out more than once, the BBC online history of Arab-Israel wars actually leaves out Yom Kippur – no doubt because the invasion of Israel by Egypt and Syria on the holiest day of the Jewish year was an indisputably aggressive act.
So how did it get mentioned in Andrew Marr’s documentary of Britain? – “In 1973 the Yom Kippur broke out leading to a rise in oil prices”. To those that don’t know they would probably think it was all the fault of the joooos. Meanwhile BBC coverage of the 6 Days War repeatedly makes Israel out to be the indisputable aggressor.
Marr’s programme is superbly made, packed with terrific documentary footage. Yet even in this passing reference, he has to airbrush out Arab aggression with the weasel idea that this war just “broke out”. Bastards.
a story i can’t seem to find on the bbc website but covered by just about everyone else –
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2095734,00.html
Oscar | 05.06.07 – 10:34 pm,
That’s the BBC. War “breaks out” and violence “flares”. Anything to hide the sins of the BBC’s friends.
jimbob | 05.06.07 – 11:39 pm
Tony Blair yesterday told a London conference on Islam that British Muslims wanted “overwhelmingly” to be loyal citizens despite the “disproportionate” amount of attention paid by the media to radical Islamist groups.
Errr… really?
As I’ve already mentioned, the BBC likes dead Jews, as long as they weren’t killed recently by “Palestinians”.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6724481.stm
Pity they couldn’t even be bothered to find a photo of a Jewish survivor (maybe there weren’t any from that camp) instead of a photo of a Russian prisoner.
Biodegradababble:
Pity they couldn’t even be bothered to find a photo of a Jewish survivor (maybe there weren’t any from that camp) instead of a photo of a Russian prisoner.
Another in the long list of crimes against truth and honesty, BioD. Just another.
Biased BBC: It never rains….
The War against the Jews part 2 from Melanie Phillips
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1539
“oh the irony. the two ministers proposing this are of Irish extraction.”
Gorden Brown who helped break up Britain also wants a British Day. The reason is clear – they are terrified of any rise in English nationalism. Because that would be the end of their socialist empire.
“An ICM poll commissioned by the CEP shows support for an English Parliament stands at 67%”
http://www.thecep.org.uk/
“An ICM poll commissioned by the CEP shows support for an English Parliament stands at 67%”
http://www.thecep.org.uk/
Just what the EU always wanted. A divided populace squabbling for their own banana parliament and indulging in all kinds of petty nationalisms in their own pointless national costumes. Britain is dead.
Generally it’s an appalling future that waits for us. You can read all about it in ‘The Time Machine’ by H.G. Wells, or 1984, or Brave New World, or Blade Runner.
“Just what the EU always wanted. A divided populace squabbling for their own banana parliament and indulging in all kinds of petty nationalisms in their own pointless national costumes. Britain is dead.”
Yes Britain is dead and the Labour Party are responsible. But for English people wanting representation is not a squabble – its democratic. I for one was happy with the UK, but that has dissapeared – so your suggestion would be to remain quiet and let the English be unrepresented. Brilliant.
“Just what the EU always wanted.” No what the EU wants is England removed from the map with Regions.
Short Newsnight debate on the unreliability of blogosphere & internet information more generally.
The complainant, appearing from San Francisco, obviously had the accelerating pace of decline of the MSM as his motivation (many redundancies at the SF organ).
Esler can remain relaxed for now, but that licence fee will not last for ever, you know.
“..petty nationalisms in their own pointless national costumes.”
Another serious comment – how can you argue with that.
“Under changes proposed by Germany, people living in Kent and East Sussex could find themselves not inhabitants of Britain, but residents of somewhere called the TransManche region.
Their fellow citizens would not be their English-speaking neighbours but the French-speaking population of northern France.
North of the TransManche would be the North Sea region, taking in all of eastern England and vast areas of Scandinavia, Germany and the Low Countries.
Western Britain and Ireland would become the Atlantic region, a huge zone that also takes in parts of France, Spain and Portugal.
Perhaps most bizarre would be the Northern Periphery region, lumping together the population of north-west Scotland with their very distant cousins in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Greenland and Iceland.
The masterplan will be put into action when Germany takes over the EU presidency in January 2007 and tries to revive the rejected EU constitution”
http://www.speakout.co.uk/regions.aspx
Yep just what the EU want an English parliament. Being a “petty nationalist” I must have misread the above.
Okay I take it back. fgt.
I stand by this though:
“Generally it’s an appalling future that waits for us. You can read all about it in ‘The Time Machine’ by H.G. Wells, or 1984, or Brave New World, or Blade Runner.”
Britain’s dhimmiversities*
“Even now, even after everything that has happened, even after the recent tough talking about defeating Islamist extremism on the battlefield of ideas and the apparent waking up to the extremism of bodies like the Muslim Council of Britain, the British government still doesn’t get it. Yesterday, at a conference on Islam in London, Tony Blair launched a new initiative to promote Muslim moderation and defeat extremism”.
He attacked the:
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1538
Who is Piers Morgan & Why is He on American TV? (No Thanks, Simon Cowell)
“Shame on Simon Cowell. The “American Idol” judge is generally a smart guy–a genius record label exec who made multi-millions before he ever got fame on the FOX TV show, where he is also the only voice worth listening to.
But his show, “America’s Got Talent”–which starts Season Two, tonight on NBC at 9:00 p.m. Eastern–is an insult to his country and ours. And that’s because of the starring role of Piers Morgan on the show, for the second season in a row.
Morgan, an apparent Cowell buddy (he must be, because he has no talent or anything worthy to say), is–you may recall–the former Editor-in-Chief of the UK’s Daily Mirror. He’s the former editor because he was fired in May 2004, after he stood by hoax photos his paper published of British soldiers allegedly torturing Iraqi detainees.
The photos were faux, as in faux-tography. Yet–once he was caught–instead of apologizing, Morgan stood by their veracity and claimed he’d be vindicated. That remains his position, three years later, despite the fact that it was obvious that the photos had been staged. Morgan’s actions were reprehensible, irresponsible, and endangered British–and American–troops’ lives. And they were used as recruiting tools for Al-Qaeda”.
More
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/06/who_is_piers_mo.html
Okay I take it back. fgt.
Ultraviolets | 06.06.07 – 2:52 am,
Good for you to be big enough to admit you were wrong. That’s something we seldom, if ever, see from John Reith and other BBC-ites on this site. Funny, that, since they are wrong most of the time.
I stand by this though:
“Generally it’s an appalling future that waits for us. You can read all about it in ‘The Time Machine’ by H.G. Wells, or 1984, or Brave New World, or Blade Runner.”
Ultraviolets | 06.06.07 – 3:00 am
Agreed, and the BBC is energetically pushing for a Brave New World in which we’ll all follow the polished PC line of the BBC like sheep.