– several links about BBC coverage of terrorism and related issues.
Not exactly bias, but pretty funny. John Simpson today (18th) has an article about Afghanistan headlined “Resurgent Taleban. John Simpson asks if the war with the Taleban can be won.” (link.) If you do a
search for “resurgent taliban” on the bbc website, you’ll find a preview of Newsnight, 20th July 2006, in which John Simpson talks about a “resurgent taliban”.
(link)It’s John Simpson’s yearly resurge.
On 11 September 2001 armed people took control of four planes that were flying above the US.
Following the links to another page called Why did they do it?, here is the BBC explanation:
No-one can say exactly why the attacks were carried out.
But, the way America has got involved in conflicts in regions like the Middle East has made some people very angry, and the hijackers are likely to have been from this group.The US thinks a group called al-Qaeda is behind the attacks. Al-Qaeda leaders have in the past declared a holy war – called a Jihad – against the US. As part of this Jihad al-Qaeda members believe attacking US targets is something they should do.
When the attacks happened in 2001 there were a number of US troops in a country called Saudi Arabia, and al-Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden said he wanted them to leave.
On this day when the BBC informs the world it has to be just a little more impartial, they report on a story from Afghanistan where a suicide bomber murders 3 people as well as himself. So on that note what do you think the headline for said article should be?
Suicide bomber kills 3.
3 people killed in suicide bomb attack
Suicide bomber strikes Kabul.
Well that is how any impartial news agency would report such a story . So just how do the BBC report on the above in light of its quest to report impartially?
Bijan,
You are on the money, and I see that Mel P has also posted on this sham.
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1556
DID ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THAT ABBAS ADMITTED THAT MUSLIMS CAME TO PALESTINE AFTER CHRISTIANS!
In his speech attacking Hamas terrorists Abu Mazen (Abbas) condemned the atacks on the Christian churchs saying that “these brothers of ours were here in Palestine even before us, and Hamas has desecrated one of the oldest churches in Palestine .. ”
so Abu Mazen acknowledges that the Christians were in Palestine before teh Muslims, and we all know that the Jews were on the land before Christians, so all of a sudden the Palestinia’s propaganda which is often repeated by the BBC that the Jews are the newcomers to sound like the lie it is.
max
If you want to realise the extent of Alistair Crook[e] sucking up to Hamas, double dealing, and betrayal of the UK that you need look no further than the transcript of his early meeting with Hamas, ironically set up by the Palestinian Authority in Gaza …
http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/eng/sib/4_05/tran_eu.htm
this transcript feel into Israeli hands and its release was so embaressing for the British government and Crooke personally that he was forced to quit his job.
HH:
“It was mentioned several times on Today yesterday and across other media during the day. Not everything appears on the web site.”
Of course the fact that it shows the US in a good light has nowt to do with it…? Considering the screaming about climate change the BC have indulged in lately and this story is not important enough to make the website? The fact that unless persuaded to change the Chinese WILL cause more problems than the rest of the world?
Aye right…. what a funny chap you are. Truly there are none so blind as cannot see and that accounts for far too many of the BC’s supporters such as yourself.
.
Re: Rushdie Rage
Go on UK dhimmi’s, capitulate to the Mo’s, give old Binnie a knighthood too –
“Sir Osama bin Laden?”
http://www.iol.co.za/general/news/newsprint.php?art_id=nw20070620112908423C340437&sf
and while your at it, make him DG of Al-Beeb, he might as well be !
.
Brother Bijan, thanks for the link. Very interesting. Funny, they’re all brothers.
Respectfully,
Your brother,
max
Proof that the BBC are genuinely hypnotised into thinking they are impartial:
“Q: The BBC is by far the most reliable news source… but at the same time it is biased. Why does the BBC avoid using the term “militants”?
Moshe Shen, Israel
Jeremey Bowen answers: The BBC is not biased. We take an impartial approach to news coverage, and try very hard to get to the truth. That sometimes means that people with a strong attachment to a particular point of view don’t like our coverage.
I assume that you are referring to our policy of not using the word terrorists, unless we are quoting someone who is using the word. Our policy is to avoid words that are politically loaded, the use of which can be a barrier to understanding.
“the use of which can be a barrier to understanding.”
so i guess we shouldn’t call refer to the Nazis as “Nazis” as thats too loaded a termed.
maybe “German nationalists” shall suffice.
hello Winston Smith. There’s a job for you at the BBC.
“Sounds similar to last week’s big story (& HYS topic) about a by-law on saggy pants passed by a Louisiana village meeting. The law is going to affect whatever proportion of the 2000 residents show their undies/bum crack.
The BBC’s excitment over the topic couldn’t have been much greater if Bush himself had issued the edict.
will | 20.06.07 – 2:19 pm”
is it odd , is it not, that there is so much concentration on that story, and yet when did you last see on BBC TV news any of the following:
1. St Paddies day parade down Fifth Avenue, NYC
2. Cologne “Karnival” , attended by 2 million + people
3. Rio carnival
4.
oops. sorry. pressed a button by mistake.
“Is it cos they is thick treasonable scum or just stupid?”
Now thats a good question. Which all sensible freedom loving liberal thinking people should ask, when ever they come accross people that so clearly do not see the worlds bloody conflicts anything like the same way as themselves.
However in these chaps cases the decision takes very little time to consider. This because they are all so obviously, not in the slightest bit thick or stupid.
So we quickly find we only have treasonable scum left, and in Hill*unts case, a very rude patronising and provocative truck-load of treasonable scum at that.
Ryan
Please dont bother trying to appease the BBC by giving them the excuse of stupidity too easily. In any experience I have had with the BBC they show themselves to be amounst the brightest people in the country.
Its just that the task of running a polltax funded socialist propagander broadcasting organisation post Thatcher and post internet and fully getting away with it, is far to impossible for even the BBCs vast intellectual and financial resorces.
Taken from the NATO website;
KABUL, Afghanistan (June 20) – Afghan forces, with the assistance of ISAF, have re-occupied Mianeshin district center without resistance.
“There has been some considerable misreporting about operations in and around Mianeshin in recent days,” said Lt. Col. Mike Smith, Regional Command South spokesman.
“Mianeshin is an isolated settlement in the northern region of Kandahar province, which consists of two buildings within a single compound wall. To describe it as a significant military objective is inappropriate and misleading,” Smith said.
“Afghan forces temporarily withdrew from the area. They have since reoccupied the compound without firing a shot,” Smith added.
No civilians were injured in the operation to re-secure the area.
http://www.nato.int/isaf/update/press_releases/newsrelease/2007/pr070620-453.htm
I rest my case.
.
The BBC, its love for Hamas and half a story
Abbas accuses Hamas of coup plot
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has accused Hamas of trying to establish its own state in Gaza. Mr Abbas condemned Hamas as “murderous terrorists” and “coup plotters”, over the group’s takeover of Gaza last week.
He ruled out talks with the Islamist group – a rival of his Fatah faction – but said the ongoing crisis should not prevent peace talks with Israel. A Hamas leader in Lebanon, Osama Hamdan, condemned Mr Abbas’ speech as “full of lies”.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6223388.stm
According to the BBC Abbas only accuses Hamas of a coup plot. Which is strange as the last I looked the coup was pulled off. I did like how the BBC have a hamas spokemans accuising Abbas of lying. Err BBC just what part of this speech is untruthful?
“It’s a fight between the national project and this small kingdom they want to establish in Gaza, the kingdom of Gaza, between those who are using assassination and killing to achieve their goals, and those who are using the rules of law,”
But that isn’t the point of this post. Has anybody notice how the BBC hasn’t mentioned this story from tuesday;
“With the Gaza Strip under the total control of the Islamist militant group Hamas, Egypt has decided to send its diplomatic corps in the Palestinian Authority to West Bank city of Ramallah, Egyptian newspaper Al-Hayat reported Tuesday.The Egyptian move is a blow to Hamas, which has long been welcomed in Cairo despite being shunned by Western powers. Egypt borders Gaza and Palestinians have long considered it a vital outlet from a territory otherwise penned in by Israel.
The report by the newspaper also said that the head of Egyptian intelligence, Omar Suleiman, spoke with Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal and expressed “fury” over the situation in the Gaza Strip.Last week, Egypt recalled some 200 diplomatic staff stationed in Gaza in protest against the Hamas movement’s violent ousting of its secular Fatah rivals.”
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20070619ACQRTT200706190526RTTRADERUSEQUITY_0173.htm&selected=9999&selecteddisplaysymbol=9999&StoryTargetFrame=_top&mkt=WORLD&chk=unchecked&lang=&link=&headlinereturnpage=http://www.international.nasd
They also leave out this snippet;
“CAIRO • Egypt’s foreign minister accused Iran of having encouraged Palestinian Islamist group Hamas to seize neighbouring Gaza and said it posed a threat to the Arab world, in remarks published yesterday. “Iran’s policies encouraged Hamas to do what it has done in Gaza and this represents a threat for Egypt’s national security because Gaza is a stone’s throw from Egypt,” Ahmed Abul Gheit said in Al-Masri Al-Yom newspaper.”
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Gulf%2C+Middle+East+%26+Africa&month=June2007&file=World_News2007062113315.xml
The BBC, its love for Hamas and half a story
The BBC its love for the Taliban an half a story.
Afghan schools try to make new start
A surge in violence over the past year threatens to neutralise the gains made by the country in sending its children back to school after the fall of the Taleban.
In the past 13 months, 226 schools, many run from tents, have been burnt down by the insurgents. A total of 110 teachers and students have been killed in incidents of indirect violence and another 52 wounded, officials say. The Taleban also shut down 381 schools, the majority of them in provinces like Helmand, Kandahar, Zabul and Uruzgan where they have a formidable presence.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6768801.stm
Yet again the BBC uses scare tactics in which to promote a vision of despair in Afghanistan because of the Taliban. In the past year 110 teachers and students have been murdered. Which is a lot in any book. Yet without wanting to appear cold and callous that figure pales into nothing when you compare it with the later figure of 6 million children have returned to school since the Taliban were kicked out.
For a far superior synopsis on the subject of schooling in Afghanistan read the UN news report published in March this year;
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=70844
The BBC its love for the Taliban an half a story.
No civilians were injured in the operation to re-secure the area.
http://www.nato.int/isaf/update/…r070620- 453.htm
I rest my case.
pounce | 20.06.07 – 11:17 pm | #
Nice one Pounce – it makes Hillucnt’s 19.06.07 – 2:45 pm contribution rather funny. For posterity’s sake let’s revisit it:
pounce, this is sad stuff. Please pause for thought in future. It’ll be kinder on you in the long run…
2 buildings inside a compound wall!
Time for a reality check.
Myanishen District does exist.
It is not a town, a village or two buildings inside a compound wall. It is an administrative district of Kandahar Province. I am mystified by the inability of pounce, Ryan, bijan etc to find in the list here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar_Province
What is 2 buildings is its District Centre – a district admin office and a police post.
The district itself has a dispersed, rural population of 13,400 – making it slightly bigger than some nearby districts such as Nish (pop: c11,000), or Ghorak (c.8000).
The BBC did NOT say in its original report that the Taliban had won a significant battle for an important military objective. Pounce, in his original post quoted the BBC report:
Afghan forces say they pulled out of Myanishen district as a tactical move. Correspondents say the militants have taken a number of districts over the past couple of years but have managed to keep control of only one.
Accurate – and properly contextualized.
As for the resurgent Taleban meme:
This was not invented by the BBC, as pouunce suggests, to fuel a campaign to pull our forces out.
It was explicitly stated (using that very phrase) by General Richards a year ago when explaining why are troops are there.
“There’s no doubt there is a resurgent Taliban problem,” he told the BBC’s Pashtu-language service late on Thursday.
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=275945&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/
This is a official press release of isaf which about misreporting in the media;
http://www.nato.int/isaf/update/press_releases/newsrelease/2007/pr070620-453.htm
to quote;
“There has been some considerable misreporting about operations in and around Mianeshin in recent days,” said Lt. Col. Mike Smith, Regional Command South spokesman.
Who is more credible, a NATO commander or the BBC? I just cannot make up my mind.
By the way, the BBC front page news story at the moment:
Taleban ‘shifting focus to Kabul’
The Taleban in Afghanistan are changing their tactics to mount more attacks on the capital, Kabul, a spokesman for the militant group has told the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6224900.stm
The BBC is giving the oxygen of publicity to a terrorist entity which is fighting British forces at a time of war.
The BBC- The PR firm of the Taliban.
What say you JR?
BBC: “they pulled out of Myanishen district”
NATO: “Mianeshin is an isolated settlement in the northern region of Kandahar province, which consists of two buildings within a single compound wall.”
BBC said it was the whole district, NATO says it was the tiny district centre compound.
Clear difference.
I know who I believe and it aint the BBC.
“Are you in Afghanistan ? Have you seen any Taliban and BBC journalists movement? Send your comments to NATO AF command.”
Simpson interviewed the bloke over the phone. For all he or we know the headhacking pumber might as well have been speaking from Forest Gate. That’s what passes for journalism nowadays at the BBC.
I’d ignore it all of course, but they keep charging me for their broadcasting of such guff. Otherwise they send me to prison.
“You do not have
To bribe or twist
The arm
Of the British journalist
Considering what he would do
Unasked
There is no reason to.”
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/1139/bbctalibanpl2.jpg
Via Mick Hatley.
http://mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2007/06/his-books-are-r.html
This is the worst yet. Tendentious manipulative hostile language in every line. It defies belief. The damn BBC seems to be convinced that Rushdie committed a crime.
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notesarchive.php?id=1956
It gets better.
@HillHunt “One more time…
The BBC called it a district. Because it is.”
And it is also a couple of huts in a compund. As NATO said.
Still, like I say, this isn’t bias. This is a daft BBC News reporter lifting a story from Reuters consisting of 10 lines, and working it up by an order of magnitude into front page news. Stupidity. Like reporting on NATO troop movements is stupid.
Question is, HillHunt, why are you so keen to defend the BBC when they do something stupid? I can see why you might defend the BBC if their political views concur with yours. But why defend poor reporting?
I’m beginning to think that the Biased BBC lot are right about you – you really do work for the BBC despite your protestations. Whats more you are paid to do PR for them.
Which makes sense…
Given that neither NuLabour or the Tories are keen on the way the BBC reports politics and the discussion of privatising the Beeb to raise a few quid has now gone mainstream….
The BBC (what with its impartiality clause and what not) reports back to the masses that all is doom and gloom in Afghanistan. If you stuck to just the BBC for your news you will presume according to the BBC that NATO is getting a panning in the Region, that the people of Afghanistan have seen no benefits transpire since the Taliban have gone and that the ineptness of the Air arm of NATO has polarised the Locals back towards the Taliban.
Here is the current crop of BBC articles which substantiate my above;
Taleban ‘shifting focus to Kabul’
The Taleban in Afghanistan are changing their tactics to mount more attacks on the capital, Kabul, a spokesman for the militant group has told the BBC. The spokesman, Zabiyullah Mujahed, said Taleban were recovering after Nato had infiltrated the group and killed some of its leaders. But more people were volunteering to carry out suicide bombings, he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6224900.stm
Notice how comfortable terrorists feel in communicating with the BBC, that isn’t a bloody good exclusive , that is propaganda for people who murder simply because they can. Let me put it another way, how would the public in the UK feel if the BBC went round asking Animal libs groups asking them where they will focus their attacks next.
Iraqi tactics come to Afghanistan
The call is a red alert, and American medics scramble to meet an incoming helicopter.
It is ferrying the latest casualty from Afghanistan’s vicious, changing war. He is stretchered straight into the field hospital in forward base Salerno at Khost close to the border with Pakistan. His name is Staff Sgt Ken Wininger, and the bones in his foot have just been shattered by a roadside bomb.
…………….
A Taleban propaganda film shows attacks like the one that destroyed Ken Wininger’s vehicle.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6222574.stm
Again the BBC promotes the image that the Taliban are everywhere. They point out somewhat succulently how many NATO troops have died, then instead of doing the same for the terrorists they will post a figure which includes the total figure of casualties and then in some quirk of reporting highlight the smaller civilian figures instead of the Taliban figures. At a stroke the BBC gives the image that the Taliban are not suffering losses, but instead the coalition is managing to kill large numbers of civilians instead. In other words the political agenda of the mandarins at the BBC is overwriting their mandate to report factually. And to prove my point here is the last paragraph from that last link from the BBC;
“The Americans have lost 50 men in Afghanistan so far this year. Every new casualty bleeds a little more strength from the coalition.”
Yup the impartial BBC, wishes to replace freedom for all in Afghanistan, with an ideology which only promotes freedom for a few.
‘Suicide’ minister may go to UK
The Pakistani minister who said that the knighthood given to British author Salman Rushdie could justify suicide attacks has said he may visit the UK.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6225428.stm
And I think i will pay this wanker a visit when he does.
And here is another Pro Taliban news story from the BBC;
Taleban radio station back on air
A pirate Taleban radio station, Voice of Shariat, or Islamic law, has begun broadcasting again, reports from south-eastern Afghanistan say.A Taleban spokesman said a half-hour programme was broadcast on Tuesday night and would now be broadcast daily.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6224972.stm
The BBC (As always) promotes this vision of Taliban might, that they are everywhere and that they even have their own radio station. (and website) which is strange as it is only 1 radio station in a land of over 24 million. Here is a snippet from a story I read in the Economist a story the BBC should be covering;
“Freedom of expression is intoxicating in a conservative country where the government and religious establishment have long kept a tight rein and where the Taliban regime banned music and television. Since its overthrow in 2001 more than 60 FM radio stations, hundreds of magazines and newspapers and eight independent television channels have been founded. Young Kabulis devour satellite television and the unrestricted internet. The media, say many Western commentators, have been one of Afghanistan’s few clear-cut success stories of the past six years.”
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340157&CFID=10087145&CFTOKEN=39603929
60 FM radio stations as opposed to 1 LW/SW crackly station yet the BBC reports on the latter and not the former. I wonder why. Maybe John Simpson could explain to the world why the BBC is more than happy to promote the Taliban (with its destruction) every step of the way rather than the legitimate Government (And all the rebuilding it has done)
Just for the info, i see the BBC has posted lots of pro Taliban articles today. Could this be their way of saying.
“Never mind the quality feel the width?”
In reply to having egg on its face over its dodgy reporting.
Jerusalem braced for gay parade
A controversial Gay Pride parade is to march through Jerusalem later today with an expected 5,000 participants. The event has sparked fierce protests among the holy city’s religious communities. Ultra-Orthodox Jews have protested repeatedly against the march in the past week, burning tyres, confronting police and damaging police cars.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/default.stm
The last I looked the Ultra-Orthodox Jews are a small minority in the fabric of society that is Israel. The vast majority of Jews have no problem with Homosexuality. Pity I can’t say the same for another of Jerusalem religious communities. A community which the BBC doesn’t mention yet doesn’t need to be Ultra-Conservative in which to murder anybody who would love to bend it for Beckham.
P.S
BBC CLones I don’t up-hill Garden so don’t bother asking.
Ryan:
Question is, HillHunt, why are you so keen to defend the BBC when they do something stupid? I can see why you might defend the BBC if their political views concur with yours. But why defend poor reporting?
There is, I know, no convincing you. But…
Over 1,000 news media, many of them in the USA, carried the report.
So did the Voice of America, the official US foreign broadcaster.
The BBC report put the news into proper context, as Reith pointed out above.
It did not in any way suggest that this was a significant Teleban victory, although you’ve all got yourself into a lather in the mistaken belief it did.
The ISAF comment does not specify the BBC report, although you all assume it did.
It’s fascinating that a relatively minor news report which says there’s been a minor setback in a long-running guerrilla war should turn so many of you into Die Hard action heroes.
All wars have setbacks. Many of them are minor. The hallmark of a democratic society is the willingness to deal with this.
The Biased BBC solution appears to be to maintain radio silence. Fair enough, but there might be some turbulence from the many Brits unhappy with our foreign ventures if our wars abroad appear on the BBC only as shiny happy roads to perfection.
Can we deal with that?
Hell, yeah!
“Over 1,000 news media, many of them in the USA, carried the report.”
so the BBC are like lemmings, following what everyone else is reporting.
if that is the case – why do i need the BBC extracting license fees on pain of imprisonment?
i think you and i can agree that a bit more original reporting could make the BBC stand out a bit.
I don’t see any one here calling for radio silence nor sycophantic approval of every aspect of our foreign and military policy. It would be nice however if the BBC refrained from simply promoting our enemies whilst simultaneously kicking our troops.
Gilberts text could have been written with the BBC in mind – “The idiot who praises every century but this and every country but his own”
archduck:
i think you and i can agree that a bit more original reporting could make the BBC stand out a bit.
First off, thanks for refraining from calling on Serbian hitmen to blow my brains out. I see you’ve calmed down a bit since then.
I do agree with you. But there’s lots of original reporting. That’s what makes the BBC so darn good.
The skirmish in Kandahar, however, was part of the background buzz of news reporting – one of those stories that make up the day’s agenda but isn’t a scoop or an authored piece.
My point about the 1,000-odd similar media reports was to show that this wasn’t some out-on-a-limb piece by the Beeb to poison the British population, as the Pounce Patrol painted it.
It was a report which editors all round the globe gave space to and assessed in just the same way as the BBC. That’s all.
Arthur Dent:
It would be nice however if the BBC refrained from simply promoting our enemies whilst simultaneously kicking our troops.
Fumble in your dressing gown for a bit and locate the Myanishen posting which started this whole debate…
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/4110071824814403930/?a=24541#360951
Where in the BBC report does it even hint at simultaneously kicking our troops?
What it does say is this:
Afghan forces say they pulled out of Myanishen district as a tactical move.
So that’s Afghan forces making a tactical move.
Stand down the firing squad. Treachery not proven.
@HillHunt
Disengenuous as ever, I see.
“It did not in any way suggest that this was a significant Teleban victory, although you’ve all got yourself into a lather in the mistaken belief it did.”
Well I didn’t. Never said that it did say that this was a significant victory. The BBC never tells outright lies. That is what your analysis ALWAYS relies on, HillHunt. I notice the pattern of your approach:
Biased-BBC “This story…. shows clear bias”
HillHunt: “Well where is the LIE then?”
Bias isn’t about lies. It is about omissions. You kow that of course, you are playing a game of misdirection.
But I’m not interested in proving the unprovable.
A report that leaves the reader unable to determine whether the attack described was significant or insignificant is an incompetent report.
And of course you won’t convince me otherwise, because I am right and you are wrong. Trying to claim that I am simply being stubborn is not in inself likely to convince anyone else that the reverse is the case.
Mass incompetence in the media is hardly surprising, given that they all source their reports from the same agencies. There was, after all, no western journalist in this village of two huts a long way from any major city. Where did the story actually come from originally? Maybe the Taleban? Maybe the Afghan police? No wonder the NATO forces were at pains to put things straight.
Like I say, you really should read “Scoop”. Foreign correspondence is very much a matter of “an escalating commitment to a particular course of action”.
hillhunt _> “It was a report which editors all round the globe gave space to and assessed in just the same way as the BBC. That’s all.”
oh right. so following the herd so. i would have thought that the BBC was above all that. i was mistaken.
and my apologies for wanting a serbian hitman to blow your brains out. late night. annoyance at your holier than thou postings. it was out of character and i wholeheartedly apologise without any conditions.
but i’m not going to do a Salman Rushdie on you…
“I do agree with you. But there’s lots of original reporting. That’s what makes the BBC so darn good.”
still waiting for the BBC to report on the St Paddys Day parade down fifth avenue in NYC, with hordes of returning troops from Iraq.
not a peep this year or the last.
its a small point – but it these small points grate and irritate.
The following is from the newsletter of the Barnabas Fund, a UK-based but international Christian Support Charity. It presents rather a different viewpoint from the BBC and most of the UK media.
http://www.barnabasfund.org/
IMPLICATIONS OF THE VIOLENT HAMAS TAKE OVER OF GAZA
Hamas has been presented by many in the West, and especially in the media, as a legitimate liberation movement that should be officially recognised by Western states. This view accepts almost intuitively that radical Islamist terrorist groups are the only true and authentic representatives of their societies and nations. Other powerful forces within these societies are ignored. It is argued that Western governments should recognise these “moderate” Islamist movements that have a political wing, have entered the democratic process in their countries and have gained legitimacy from large constituencies within their own societies. Another argument is that violent movements have always influenced world history, and that, historically, states finally had to deal with terrorists who later became leaders of their new nations or of political parties within their states. Based on these precedents it is argued that recognition, negotiation and appeasement are the best way of dealing with them.
Most of these commentators have a shaky knowledge of Islam, accepting the myth that it is inherently a religion of peace and tolerance. They reason that expressions of violence by Muslims are not rooted in Islam, but in the oppression and poverty of the Muslim masses whose most basic need is to be liberated from their oppressors. This of course is basic Marxist theory incorporated as well into Christian Liberation Theology. These observers advocate that Western governments engage in dialogue with Islamist terror groups, get to understand them better, and induce them to participate in a peace process along the lines of South Africa and Northern Ireland. Such observers seem to be ignorant of the fact that Islamists are masters of taqiyya, the long standing Islamic practice of deception in favour of Islam and its goals. Islamists will not knowingly convey to a Westerner their true aims and motives. There is a real danger that efforts at legitimizing Islamists will marginalise Mu slim moderates, liberals, secularists and democrats who are already under tremendous pressure from the Islamists.
The brutal Hamas takeover of the Gaza strip in mid-June 2007, which included murders of wounded Fatah soldiers in their hospital beds in full view of patients and staff and the throwing down of the President’s cook from the roof of a 15 storey building, shows that Hamas fully ascribes to the radical Islamist doctrine of emulating Muhammad’s migration model (hijra) by stages(1). This is a staged programme that seeks to establish an Islamic state under shari‘a modelled on Muhammad’s practice. Islamists are out to capture the state in stages following Muhammad’s paradigm of first setting up an alternative Islamic society which when strong enough will take over full control of the state and its centres of power. The methods are dictated by the stage in which the movement finds itself: in the first stage of weakness it focuses on peaceful mission work recruiting individuals to its ranks. In the second stage of consolidation it organises its infrastructure, buil ds up its armed forces and engages in dissimulation such as the acceptance of the democratic process in order to strengthen its position. Finally in the stage of strength, when it deems the right time has come and it is strong enough, it uses violence with no holds barred to take over the state and initiate a jihadi campaign to expand its sphere of dominion.
A similar process has been going on in Lebanon with Hizbullah, which is poised to take over the centres of power and the state itself from the legitimate Lebanese government.
It is time leaders in the West recognise that Islamists are focused on gaining ultimate power in all states and societies they operate in. Appeasement only encourages them to speed up their programme in the face of perceived weakness of their enemies. The lesson from Gaza is that it was a mistake to allow Hamas to build up its military wing over decades. It was a mistake to allow it to build up its social infrastructure as an alternative to that of the official Palestinian Authority. It was a mistake to allow it to enter the political democratic process as a legitimate party while maintaining and expanding its military wing.
For those with eyes to see, similar processes are underway among the Muslim communities in Western states, including Britain, as Islamists build up a vast infrastructure of organisations and institutions while presenting themselves as liberal and democratic. There can be no doubt that their final goal, according to their published dogmas, remains an Islamic state under shari‘a. The tactics will differ and change, but the goal remains the same and the method of attaining it in well defined stages will continue to be used. Most Islamists in the West reckon they have moved past the first stage into the second, that of building up and strengthening their infrastructure while using deception to enter the democratic process so as to gain new positions of power. Once they judge they are strong enough, they will move into the third stage of power when violence will be used, if necessary, to gain total control of state and society.
(1) Fatah itself also has a history of brutality, especially as perpetrated by its al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade.
Ryan:
A report that leaves the reader unable to determine whether the attack described was significant or insignificant is an incompetent report.
Indeed.
Now try this, from the piece which gave rise to the B-BBC compaints:
Afghan forces say they pulled out of Myanishen district as a tactical move. Correspondents say the militants have taken a number of districts over the past couple of years but have managed to keep control of only one.
See that there. That’s context.
The average Joe (or Jo) reading this would have felt well prepared for the update which said that pro-Kabul forces had taken Myanishen back.
Don’t you think?
archduck:
Apology accepted. Thanks.
.
no problems. i promise i wont issue a fatwah on you so that you have to go into hiding for the rest of your life.
hey – thats democracy and freedom isnt it? pity the BBC doesnt understand that with their islamist “misguided criminal” fixers in pallywood.
” Jockdownsouth | 21.06.07 – 2:59 pm ”
to be fair, barnabas is biased itself – for it is a christian evangelical organisation.
but then again, didnt the pallywooders burn down a christian church or convent in gaza?
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=51889
hamas have denied that they were behind it. in the chaos of the gaza takeover i’d err on the side of caution and say that it was just a lot of pallywooders taking a looting advantage of a chaotic situation.
hamas is obsessed with the “jew”, so i ‘d find it hard to believe that they would deliberately go after a christian church.
Ryan
A report that leaves the reader unable to determine whether the attack described was significant or insignificant is an incompetent report.
I found this passage did the significance/insignificance thing for me:
…as a tactical move. Correspondents say the militants have taken a number of districts over the past couple of years but have managed to keep control of only one.
Clearly it didn’t do it for you.
But then you are a bit slow on the uptake.
Despite Google, you spent an unconscionably long time in MyaNishin denial.
Then you keep saying the BBC has no reporters in country…. when as any fule knowe, Huw Edwards is in Helmand, Alastair Liethhead is with the Grenadiers, Damian Grammaticus is in Khost….. and the Liberator of Kabul himself is paying a state visit to bring you the original and exclusive news (archduke please note) that the theatre of Taleban ops is set to transfer to the capital.
(Not to mention the guys who do the World Service stuff in Pashto, Dari and Uzbek.)
I see you boast of having a PhD in something called ‘electronic engineering’.
When did they start awarding doctorates in vocational subjects?
Can one get one in Hotel Management and Business German too?
Happily the average Afghan is somewhat brighter. They recently voted the BBC the most trustworthy news source on Afghan affairs • ahead of all those new FM stations and VoA.
BBC audience in Afghanistan: c 9 million.
Ryan says ‘incompetent’. 8.9m Afghan people say: ‘on the money’.
I know whom I believe.
john reith:
Clearly it didn’t do it for you.
But then you are a bit slow on the uptake….
Happily the average Afghan is somewhat brighter.
I do the snarky stuff. You talk peace unto nation.
I suppose one shouldn’t expect any better but really Reith if you think electronic engineering is a vocational subject you simply show yourself to be uneducated
http://www.ee.ucl.ac.uk/
http://www.eee.manchester.ac.uk/
My degree was in political theory and government, but I restrain myself from pointing out clearly absurd points everyone feels they can make about the subject.
The BBC seems to think they can do ths with impugnity, I have news for them they cannot.
But whatever the field of study the abysmal attempt to discredit someone’s hard work and study in obtaining an entirely valid subject is beneath contempt.
John Reith this is you to who I am referring.
Your comment:
“I see you boast of having a PhD in something called ‘electronic engineering’.
When did they start awarding doctorates in vocational subjects?
Can one get one in Hotel Management and Business German too?”
Said PhDs are given by such ‘mickey mouse’ institutions:
Queen Marys London
Kings College London
Brunel
Newcastle
Liverpool John Moores
Southampton
Manchester
Bristol
Imperial
Glasgow
Bangor
Surrey
I could go but the list already covers my point.
John Reith – sinking lower than hillhunt belittling other’s studies and hard work in traditional BBC manner with zero justification. Total disgrace.
Not so long ago Reith criticised me for my habit of putting quotes around “Palestinians” and “Palestine”.
How about this?
“Israel” publishes names of army’s assassination targets
From the same marvelously unbiased source of news from Gaza some news that the BBC has overlooked:
Ministry of Health: 37 Citizens Killed, 100 others Wounded during Israeli Offensive on Gaza Strip
Date: 2007-05-23 17:27:33
In a report, the Ministry warned of the danger of weapons used by Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) against Palestinian people in Gaza Strip.
Director General of emergency unite in the Ministry of Health, Dr. Muawiya Hassanein said that the occupation is used dangerous weapons that internationally prohibited, pointing out that these weapons melt iron , coked corpses and tissues as well as cutting bodies to pieces, where it is difficult to identify them.
The Ministry called on the international community and United Nations to impose sanction on Israel to compel it halting its perpetrated crimes against the Palestinian people.
From the same impeccable source that accused Israel of having murdered Yasser Arafat:
Hamas: We have documents confirm the involvement of Dahaln in assassinating president Arafat
“Palestine”‘s official news agency: almost as impartial as the BBC.
BaggieJ;
John Reith – sinking lower than hillhunt belittling other’s studies and hard work in traditional BBC manner with zero justification. Total disgrace.
Look on the bright side. At least he didn’t mention the Albion’s promotion prospects.
How are they looking, since I’m on.
Ryan
*Reith “…as a tactical move. Correspondents say the militants have taken a number of districts over the past couple of years but have managed to keep control of only one.
Clearly it didn’t do it for you.”
It doesn’t trouble you that the term “disctrict” could refer to an area with a dense population of 1million people or, in this case, a couple of mud-huts. In the former you might need a Taleban force of 10,000 men+, in the latter a couple of dozen. But by all means carry on arguing the point. The more you argue the dafter you look.
“But then you are a bit slow on the uptake.
Despite Google, you spent an unconscionably long time in MyaNishin denial.”
I think you are mistaking me for Pounce. I didn’t argue the point. HillHunt had found the link that not only proved the existence of MyaNishin… but also inadvertantly revealed that it had a population of 13,400. That was more interesting to me. Even this figure proved to be excessive as the population is spread over a wide area – the Taleban took a mud-hut in some central compound as we now know. I should skulk off quietly if I were you and come back on an issue where you are on firmer ground….
“Then you keep saying the BBC has no reporters in country…. when as any fule knowe, Huw Edwards is in Helmand, Alastair Liethhead is with the Grenadiers, Damian Grammaticus is in Khost….. and the Liberator of Kabul himself is paying a state visit to bring you the original and exclusive news (archduke please note) that the theatre of Taleban ops is set to transfer to the capital.”
Its “Afhganistan special week, two for the price of one” at the BBC, isn’t it? Ever heard of the psychologists phrase “An escalating commitment to a particular course of action”. Google it. I like Huw. He did the Madeleine Cann report the other week from Portugal I see. Nice to see him getting out from behind a desk now and then. Must be a special occassion….
“I see you boast of having a PhD in something called ‘electronic engineering’.”
I don’t boast about it – its actually a bit of an embarrasment when you are in engineering. Your man at the BBC did the boasting. I could have pointed out that PhDs are specialisms and a specialist in particle physics is not necessarily knowledgable about climate change, but there you are.
“When did they start awarding doctorates in vocational subjects?”
Oh dear. Perhaps you should have tried Googling at the very least before carefully placing your foot in your mouth. Look around your ankles and you will find your credibility…..
“Happily the average Afghan is somewhat brighter. They recently voted the BBC the most trustworthy news source on Afghan affairs • ahead of all those new FM stations and VoA.”
Your not really very bright are you? I hate to be a pedant but “Most trustworthy” is really not the same as “trustworthy”. Ooops.
“Ryan says ‘incompetent’. 8.9m Afghan people say: ‘on the money’.”
Yes, my money. They can afford to have low expectations. They aren’t paying for it….
“I know whom I believe.”
Given that you don’t know that engineers can get PhDs (taught or via research), I’m not really sure I care much what you believe.