We all know the BBC’s corporate view of the Great Satan America, but I think this is going beyond rhetoric.
“Politicians reacted in disbelief to the revelation that for over two hours yesterday, the BBC News website carried a request for people in Iraq to report on troop movements. The request was removed from the website after it sparked furious protests that the corporation was endangering the lives of British servicemen and women.
But according to accounts last night, a story on a major operation by US and Iraqi troops against al-Qa’eda somewhere north of Baghdad contained an extraordinary request for information about the movement of troops. Last night the BBC confirmed the wording of the request was: “Are you in Iraq? Have you seen any troop movements? If you have any information you would like to share with the BBC, you can do so using the form below.”
The BBC confirmed last night that this form of words had appeared on the website from “late morning” until early afternoon.”
The request was more likely to endanger the lives of US and Iraqi forces, being appended to this piece on the Diyala province offensive north of Baghdad.
Thanks to the glories of Revisionista, we can see that the request for troop information was there from revision 3 at 09.30 GMT up to revision 10 at 13.40 GMT – more than four hours.
The squaddies at ARRSE aren’t best pleased.
“Did you realise the BBC are now helping insurgents in northern Iraq with their intel ??”
I do hope if the BBC are going to request this sort of info that all their staff are security cleared. One wouldn’t like to think of such information falling into the wrong hands. Alternatively, could they try a radical new departure and request information on the movements of “militants” and “insurgents” ? And what would they say if Al-Jazeera asked their viewers to report on the movements of BBC staff in Gaza, Iraq or Afghanistan ?
Hat-tips to Max, Heron and David in the comments (via Tim Blair).
UPDATE – I think this is what’s called disingenuous.
“However, yesterday we used the phrase “have you seen any troop movements” in this request for information. The Telegraph and some others wrongly interpreted this as an attempt on our part to seek out military detail.”
What on earth could give that impression ? How could anyone think that asking about troop movements is an attempt to seek out military detail ?
“We phrased it badly, and as soon as we realised what we had done – a couple of hours – we removed the form.”
Four hours and 10 minutes according to Revisionista. Is Vicky Taylor not even capable of putting the corporate hand up honestly over the timing, is Revisionista wrong, or has she been inaccurately briefed ? Alas, I can’t ask her, because I’m banned from commenting – at least that’s how I translate “you are not allowed to comment”.
And off topic, but kudos to Nick Reynolds for his continuing ‘mission to explain’ and David Gregory for his contributions to an interesting discussion on the reporting of climate change in the comments to this post.
Tom:
Troll. Don’t. Feed.
bob | 22.06.07 – 12:31 pm
No, I haven’t really looked into what’s on the electronic engineering sandwich course tripos.
But I’d hope that any electronic engineer who’d undertaken research for his doctorate would be good at guesstimating the average number of visitors to an internet site.
Our electric doctor, Ryan, ventured
250,000…….
The true figure is 1,685.
Even a simple humanities type like me got closer with 2,500.
If Ryan makes errors of that order of magnitude in his daily work, we’ll never reach Mars.
John Reith,
Perhaps you didn’t notice this request for an acknowledgement of my apology:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/1627563144020026147/#360300
John Rieth,
Just where do you get off by looking down at somebody just because you presume you are intellectually superior to them. It is attitudes such as that which start wars.
Wars which once idiots like you start, you then back off, forcing the people you denigrate as ‘Plebs’ to sort out your mess. A mess which people like you (and I include every BBC worker who has a degree here) has no problem blaming on the so-called uneducated people who have to sort out your mess.
The thing is Mr Reith people like you who have no problem belittling anybody you don’t agree with and will only do so from behind the safety of the anonymity provided by a keyboard. What gives you the right to abuse people who are simply using the right to free speech in this country in which to object (in their eyes) to the bias they perceive that a publicly funded news organisation is carrying out at their financial expense. If you wish to act like a little boy unable to express himself in the manner a decent degree should bestow upon its owner. Then maybe the time is ripe for you to switch off your computer and go for a long walk. Trying to inflame people with your petty snipes on this board does you no credit what so ever.. But merely shows that you (with a so called superior degree) haven’t yet grasped the ideals you preach to others.
Please feel free to respond. Myself, I’m knocking off early and meeting the better half for lunch.
Re Glastonbury, The Editors blog has a post on it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/
Tom
Only yesterday the “artist” performing at Glastonbury and singled out for an extended interview by “Today” was a former Bay City Roller who is trying to reposition himself as Billy Bragg. What do you reckon is the probability that he would have got airtime on the BBC (let alone a spot from Eavis) if he’d been protesting about the mendacity of Al Gore and the whole MMGW swindle?
.
Abandon Ship! | 22.06.07 – 11:44 am | #
——————————————————————————–
“Also they feature “i count”, dedicated to stopping climate change:
This site informs us that “As President Bush tries to limit international action on climate change, the US is in the grips of its worst summer drought since the 1930s.”
Duuuh, — 1930’s low CO2 = drought ; 2000’s high CO2 = drought —- F*uck me I’m really confused now.
Aaaah, perhaps this might help –
“Long-Range Forecast of U.S. Drought
Based on Solar Activity
by Dr Theodor Landscheidt
Schroeter Institute for Research in Cycles of Solar Activity
Klammerfelsweg 5, 93449 Waldmuenchen, Germany”
http://www.john-daly.com/solar/US-drought.htm
Yup, explains it all and not a whiff of CO2 to be found.
But I guess you won’t see, hear or read it anytime soon in the BBC’s output.
.
.
Re troop Coalition movements, just spotted this trundling down Wood Lane in the direction of the TV Centre.
http://thumbsnap.com/v/iY3AdtbW.jpg
You Al-Beebers better watch out, they looked really pissed off.
.
Tom, Dennis & the other Hip Dudes:
Wait! Who can forget the Biased BBC theme on reliably conservative pop acts? It was only 10 days ago….
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/760953733203267066/#359719
This was the final running order, as voted by you, the viewers:
Cliff
Geri Halliwell
Lynyrd Skynyrd (all the talented ones dead)
C’n’W singer called George Strait (me neither)
Phil Collins
Ted “My Baby Likes My Butter on Her Grits” Nugent
Compere: Jim Davidson
Now, do we prefer that… or The Killers, Arctic Monkeys, The Who, The Kooks, Paolo Nutini, Lily Allen, The Waterboys, Bloc Party, Amy Winehouse… oh, and Dame Shirley Bassey. Plus The National Youth Orchestra (and that’s only the main stage)?
hillhunt (BBC)
Your continual posts here show your denial has no credibility.
Meanwhile: Basics 101
“Self dignity”
That which you did not show by the tacit support for the unmerited attack upon the hard earned qualifications from august institutions.
“Prospects”
As in your future for getting any self dignity, apparently low indeed.
“lazy ploughman’s lunches across the disciplines”
Ploughman’s lunch – invented in modern times but made to look historical and traditional so much so that now it is believed by many it actually was historic and traditional.
And if you think I’m going to give you this idiot’s guide again when if you had problems with it you could have looked it up you can think again.
“We’ve all contributed to the cost of your education”
NO, you were a very young child when I was at university so on the contrary if anyone has contributed to the cost of someone’s education it is me towards you.
Re Glastonbury, The Editors blog has a post on it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/
Bryan | 22.06.07 – 1:15 pm | # .
This morning I sent the following comment:
Glastonbury is the spiritual home of the Today programme under the editorship of Ceri Thomas. You should consider doing a compilation album with songs and readings from all the lefty anti-war, anti-Bush singers, poets, novelists and 60s terrorists you’ve had on in recent months. Ry Cooder, John Prine, Randy Newman, Burt Bacharch, Billy Bragg, Damon Albarn, Robert Wyatt, Bjork, Eric Faulkner, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Bill Ayers, John Barker, John Berger… (and those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head)
You could call it “Never Mind The B*llocks About Impartiality… Here’s the Today Programme”, and have a picture of Jim Naughtie in an Afghan coat with a “F**k Bush” badge on.
It didn’t get past the man and now the man has banned me. Man, what a bummer.
On the subject of site visits, I’m one of those who visits frequently in order to find out what the BBC should have reported, but I don’t often leave a comment mainly because someone else has written more or less what I’m thinking. I appreciate the links by contributors such as pounce, DTM et al, and I find Hillhunt (BBC) – excellent suggestion to add BBC after HH – to be rather irritating and diversionary, as he/she intends. I note that his/her ‘smart’ remarks appear to be indicative of someone who isn’t at all smart. I wouldn’t trust any of the arty BBC-ers here to wire a plug. And what exactly does HH(BBC) do? He must be paid by the BBC.
To be fair Hillhunt, lefties might be a bit more ‘artistically’ creative but they’ve got no class. I’d rather listen to ‘You can’t Hurry Love’ and ‘Spice Up Your Life’ somewhere sophisticated with a large G&T than pretty much anyone in the middle of a mudheap surrounded by ugly people with dreadlocks. And the Waterboys are shit.
First Hutton, now this!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6230382.stm
The BBC: probably hiding the interesting bits that we should know.
Cockney, I’d need a VERY large G+T to be able to stand either of those…..
But obviously most musicians are (or say they are) lefties because it’s a trendy thing to be. End of. I don’t really go to these guys for insightful political judgement, know what I mean? The Arctic Monkeys on the State of The World Today.
Right.
BaggieJ:
NO, you were a very young child when I was at university so on the contrary if anyone has contributed to the cost of someone’s education it is me towards you.
I suspect not…
hillhunt:
“Great.
It’ll make you look like even grumpier than the old killjoys that you already appear to be…”
Biased BBC: Who are The Beetles? When did Bruce Springsteam? How would one use a Walk-Man?”
Better a grumpy killjoy than someone who actually believes that Glastenbory is anything other than a cynical, slick, commercial venture designed to part ageing hippies with their hard-earned (and hillhunt apparantly) Wake up and smell the … – the prawn samdwich brigade took over the place 7 years ago when the new security fence arrived.
Meanwhile the leftie hang on pressure groups are given direct access to the BBC
– why should Billy Bragg be given the microphone from Glastenbury – as he is right now on BBC news 24- about his views on the UK education system?
hillhunt -try answering the issue rather than resorting to a hipper than you argument.
Hillhunt (ex BBC)
I apologise, there is a way none of the options I said could apply.
We must have all got you wrong.
You are in fact retired?
So, when did you leave the BBC?
@John Reith (BBC):
“Our electric doctor, Ryan, ventured
250,000…….
The true figure is 1,685.”
I only said the site might be visited by as many as 250,000 individuals. I did not say over what time period. Notice the figures gives the number of visits as 1685 in one day – but over 11,000 in one week. That is, there is no evidence that visitors repeat their visits on a daily basis. This is to be expected, as the main page is not updated that frequently – the main page goes back over a month. One can easily see that the average visitor might visit the site once a month, see most of the latest commentary here, then not repeat the visit for a month. That would actually give you 53,000 unique visitors in an average month. However, sites like these experience enormous peaks in visits if they carry a story that is of interest to other bloggers – the links pour more visitors onto the site.
I based my assumptions on the Guido Fawkes blog which seems to be about as popular in terms of the number of comments and claims to have 250,000 unique visitors in an average month.
Basically, over a period of about a year, I think it is entirely feasible that 250,000 unique visitors will come to this site.
It seems, Mr Reith, that you have a few things to learn about blogging and the new media. Times, they are a changing….
judging by his comments, hillhunt appears to be paid by the BBC to monitor this site.
Cockney,
The Waterboys are not shit.
max,
Oh yes they are. Really.
tom atkins:
why should Billy Bragg be given the microphone from Glastenbury – as he is right now on BBC news 24- about his views on the UK education system?
Don’t have access to News 24 just now, but…
Glastonbury is a major cultural and social event for a vast spread of people. It’s right that the BBC should cover it, just as it covers the Edinburgh Festival, The Proms, Trooping The Colour, Wimbledon and a great many (too many) church services…
Take Ascot…
Miles of coverage. Upside – it’s a prestigious sporting event with Royal patronage. Downside: It emphasises snobbery, vanity, superficial fashionistas and the not-so-noble art of separating fools from their money. No biggie. Lots of people like it, and it’s got a worldwide cachet. So, good on the Beeb.
Glasto? Attracts high-profile performers. Music one of UK’s great creative industries, providing pleasure, kudos and hard currency to a (largely) grateful nation. It’s the case that many creative people are liberal, even a bit lefty. Glasto is their moment. Let it be….
“Cockney, I’d need a VERY large G+T to be able to stand either of those…..
But obviously most musicians are (or say they are) lefties because it’s a trendy thing to be. End of. I don’t really go to these guys for insightful political judgement, know what I mean? The Arctic Monkeys on the State of The World Today.
Right.”
Heh heh. You know where right-wing demagogy ends up. Left-wing demagogy is more inclusive.
“snobbery, vanity, superficial fashionistas and the not-so-noble art of separating fools from their money.”
You’re right, Glastonbury does represent all those things.
At my local show-hall I can enjoy an evening of classical music amongst polite company for a fiver. Toy-music* costs much more to see.
*Because that’s what pop music of any stripe is. The Clash and the Sex Pistols included.
So, HH(BBC), will the Ascot jockeys be asked their views of the UK education system?
hillhunt
-ascot is entertaiment so is glastonbury.
The bias of the BBC is that the BBC is ONLY asking the people at Glastonbury for their political opinion.
I want to watch the performance. I don’t want to hear what Billy Bragg, or Greenpeace have to bore on about. “The rain is due to global warming”
By the way, your working late at the BBC for a Friday afternoon aren’t you?
– have you forgotton about your hard earned hat and coat time?
you’ve earned it (- and many of the poorest people in England are being forced to pay for it with threats of Gaol)
“If you’re listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you’re a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we’re morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal.”
– Alice Cooper
Cockney, no they aren’t. Trust me.
Oi, Ultraviolets, can’t you do a mini-rock-doc on the Kelly affair using this lot?
You could call it “Arrogance Kills.”
I rest my case.
.
max | 22.06.07 – 3:29 pm | #
——————————————————————————–
Oh, dear — guilty as charged; take him down.
.
Bio: “If you’re listening to a rock star (snip)
Oh to engrave those words on a very large tablet and shove it firmly up Bono’s arse……
I look forward to the Bowen Bias Committee reporting on this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,489898,00.html
“A Visit to Fatah’s Torture Chamber
By Ulrike Putz in the Gaza Strip
A building formerly occupied by Fatah’s intelligence service in Gaza was long notorious for torture and execution. Now Hamas is in control — and is letting former inmates visit the chamber of horrors.”
Somehow I guess it might just slip below the Beeboid detection settings, unlike other prisons in the region:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3569760.stm
Billy Bragg direct from Glastobury
“teaching prisoners to play the guitar stops them re-offending”
real value added from Billy there. Well worth the BBC repeating this interview every 30 mins. The climate-change Glastonbury rain just added to the romance.
If only celebrities and journos ruled the world.
If only a released prisoner would steal HIS guitar.
tom atkins:
you’ve earned it (- and many of the poorest people in England are being forced to pay for it with threats of Gaol)
I am not earning a penny out of the licence fee and I have never previously worked for the BBC, either.
You may disagree with my views and disagree on whether to engage with me or not.
But I have been consistent about my non-BBC status. I do not work, either directly or indirectly, for the BBC.
It follows that I have not been hired by the BBC to join in on these pages, either.
I can see that it’s tempting to assume otherwise, because you all seem so convinced that the world outside is heaving with resentment at “al Beeb”.
I don’t believe it is. And I’m here to say so….
So what do you do, HH(BBC)? Who pays you?
It didn’t get past the man and now the man has banned me. Man, what a bummer.
Anonymous | 22.06.07 – 2:07 pm
The last sentence of your comment would have done it. The BBC can’t stand to be shown their bias in such a direct light. But try again in a while. The ban may not be permanent.
They banned me from Have Your Say once but I found out when I tried to comment about a week later that I was unbanned.
Have your say – banning and moderation
Why doesn’t the BBC create an X-rated comments box for “have your say”? – Containing comments the modulator does not feel should be published + all comments awaiting modulation.
Put up a health warning before you can see the comments – even a credit card no to prevent access from minors.
The point being the modulation process is then opened up to scruitiny.
HH
I just can’t see why anyone wants to hang arround in a blog disagreeing with all other posters. It just seems that your being paid to be here. Perhaps you work for a part of the BBC that is not licence-funded?
Why not start a blog of your own?
I’ve got a name for you to get you started – how about:
“I would willingly sell my house and all its contents to help the BBC”.com?
If you’re so convinced that there are very few people who think like us, but many supporters of the BBC I’m sure you therefore believe your new blog would be very popular.
tom atkins | 22.06.07 – 4:22 pm
“I just can’t see why anyone wants to hang arround in a blog disagreeing with all other posters…”
That’s what trolls usually do, Tom. They’re also childish, equipped with a low IQ and were subjected to bullying when they were younger. They have a rather high pain threshold. I guess you could say they’re masochists. Some trolls are known to work for Al Beeb.
“I just can’t see why anyone wants to hang arround in a blog disagreeing with all other posters…”
Surely a civil argument is far more intellectually stimulating and enjoyable than routinely agreeing with people? A political blog without a contrary view to challenge the contributors degenerates into echo chamber rubbish pretty quick.
Quite why someone would hang around to routinely challenge EVERYTHING said irrespective of its merit though is another matter…
hillhunt (BBC)
“I suspect not…
hillhunt | 22.06.07 – 2:46 pm ”
Well I was at university in the 80’s so this puts your working career back to the 70’s or earlier, making you what – over 50?
Your language, free time to post and research on the internet, ‘knowledge’ and writing style implies this is not the case.
I treat your claim of age with the same as your denial of currently or historically for the BBC, unproven and on the balance of the evidence highly unlikely.
“Am I the only one whose feeling uncomfortable with the amount of free publicity the BBC is giving to Glastonbury?”
Glastonbury is sponsored by BBC’s sister-paper The Guardian, of course.
Everyone:
I’m not interested in starting a fanzine on the net. Even for the BBC.
I don’t disagree with everything. See my posting above on how I differ from the BBC worldview.
I do enjoy sparring. The only downside is when people fail to respond with information (or wit) and reply with nonsensical abuse and (surprisingly frequent) threats of death or violent injury.
I don’t get BaggieJ’s assumptions about the language I use or my “knowledge”. But that’s up to him…
I do think that the free-market solution to the BBC would seriously damage the quality of a crucial British creative industry. I’m happy to stand up for that. Interestingly, only Sky of the BBC’s main rivals, disagree with its public status.
I frequently engage in lengthy debate on matters of fact and honest opinion. That’s not troll-like behaviour.
I do take the mick. But so do some of you. I have my own style, and it doesn’t suit everyone. Their loss, but no big deal.
tom atkins | 22.06.07 – 4:22 pm,
An X-rated comments box is a good idea. The BBC inched painfully towards more openness with its Debate Status stats. Here’s the status of the Alan Johnston Your messages topic:
Total comments: 9166
Published comments: 6904
Rejected comments: 2207
Moderation queue: 55
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=5911&&edition=2&ttl=20070622165214
The Johnston topic is under Other Top Debates on the main Have Your Say page. It’s a bit of a misnomer, of course, since the BBC is neither asking for nor allowing a debate on the topic, simply messages of support. It originally allowed quite a few critical comments through and they are reflected on the first few pages of the Readers Recommended section:
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=5911&start=0&tstart=0&edition=2&ttl=20070622165855&#paginator
Those highly-recommended critical comments are all from the early days (March and April) before the BBC disallowed criticism. Looks like people who wrote some of the 2207 posts that have been censored have used the only option available to them to express their opinion.
Another thing to note is that the Moderation Queue stands at 55, not in the hundreds or thousands as is the case with other topics. This is partly because comments are only trickling in to the Johnston topic and partly, in my opinion, because the moderators are religiously posting each and every message of support for Johnston whereas they are incredibly slack with comments on other topics.
Here’s a good comment:
Added: Saturday, 21 April, 2007, 17:56 GMT 18:56 UK
To the Kidnappers:
What are you doing??
Alan did everything to support the Palestinian people, and to publish pro-Palestinian articles. He is your true friend.
Even when you murdered Israelis on buses and restaurants, he kept talking about your povetry. Even when your leaders took the money for their bank accounts and for terror funding, he kept writing about the fence, and when you voted Hamas’ terrorists, he focused on the international boycott.
So please – set him free! For your benefit!
Spotless Mind, Tel Aviv, Israel
Recommended by 33 people
Eco-warrior and “Australian of the Year” Tim Flannery was all over the British media during his book tour of our fair shores a couple of weeks ago; Simon Mayo and Libby Purves showed particular credulity and unctuousness when he appeared on their respective BBC radio shows. According to Tim Blair, Flannery has now become uncharacteristically media-shy, what with all the rain and cold weather they’re having in Australia and all…
http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/weblog/weather_maker/
(As all recent threads appear to have gone “open” is it possible to begin a new one?)
hh bbc
So which is it?
Over 50 and I have to withdraw my comment apologise and acknowledge your payment towards my education.
or
Under 40 and you have to withdraw your comment apologise and acknowledge my payment towards your education.
(PS I agree about the new thread.)
BaggieJ:
I did indeed contribute to your education.
It would seem I spotted your nature when others did not, though I fully understand why they and I might have thought what they did.
Then you are over 50 and retired?
(Still not clear whether you had any hitoric relationship to the BBC, but this does at least lend some credence to your denials).
I will take you at your word.
I withdraw my assertion that you did not contribute to my education unreservedly and apologise for making that suggestion, please be assured I will not make it again.
BaggieJ:
Never worked for the BBC, no