Please use this thread for off-topic, but preferably BBC related, comments. Please keep comments on other threads to the topic at hand. N.B. this is not an invitation for general off-topic comments – our aim is to maintain order and clarity on the topic-specific threads. This post will remain at or near the top of the blog. Please scroll down to find new topic-specific posts.
Open thread – for comments of general Biased BBC interest:
Bookmark the permalink.
Thom Boston | 29.06.07 – 2:21 am
Too much to fisk and too little time, maybe more tomorrow, meanwhile:
3) “The lineal descent of “Don’t cry for me Babs and Orla” Arafat from the original Jew-hating, Nazi-ally Mufti of Jerusalme.”
Arafat was born in 1929. This was four years BEFORE the burning of the Reichstag. Bit difficult to be of “Nazi-ally descent” if you’re born before the Nazis come to power, isn’t it?
The Egyptian-born terrorist, Mohammed Abdul Rahman al-Husseini (“Yasser Arafat”) was in fact born in Cairo. His uncle and mentor was the Mufti of Jerusalem.
See here for the long history of the connections between the Nazis and Islam.
Thom Boston,
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_plo_arafat.php
Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini was born on August 24, 1929 in Cairo, his father a textile merchant who was a Palestinian with some Egyptian ancestry, his mother from an old Palestinian family in Jerusalem. His full name is also written as Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini. Arafat shortened his name to obscure his kinship with the notorious ex-Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini who collaborated with the Nazis during World War II.
Yasser Arafat: Nazi trained
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_during_ww2.php
The most influential party that emulated the Nazis was “Young Egypt,” which was founded in October 1933. They had storm troopers, torch processions, and literal translations of Nazi slogans • like “One folk, One party, One leader.” Nazi anti-Semitism was replicated, with calls to boycott Jewish businesses and physical attacks on Jews. Britain had a bitter experience with this pro-German mood in Egypt, when the official Egyptian government failed to declare war on the Wehrmacht as German troops were about to conquer Alexandria.
After the war, a member of Young Egypt named Gamal Abdul Nasser was among the officers who led the July 1952 revolution in Egypt. Their first act • following in Hitler’s footsteps • was to outlaw all other parties. Nasser’s Egypt became a safe haven for Nazi war criminals, among them the SS General in charge of the murder of Ukrainian Jewry; he became Nasser’s bodyguard and close comrade. Alois Brunner, another senior Nazi war criminal, found shelter in Damascus, where he served for many years as senior adviser to the Syrian general staff and still resides today.
Sami al-Joundi, one of the founders of the ruling Syrian Ba’ath Party, recalls: “We were racists. We admired the Nazis. We were immersed in reading Nazi literature and books… We were the first who thought of a translation of Mein Kampf. Anyone who lived in Damascus at that time was witness to the Arab inclination toward Nazism.”
These leanings never completely ceased. Hitler’s Mein Kampf currently ranks sixth on the best-seller list among Palestinian Arabs. Luis Al-Haj, translator of the Arabic edition, writes glowingly in the preface about how Hitler’s “ideology” and his “theories of nationalism, dictatorship and race… are advancing especially within our Arabic States.” When Palestinian police first greeted Arafat in the self-rule areas, they offered the infamous Nazi salute – the right arm raised straight and upward.
The PLO and notably Arafat himself do not make a secret of their source of inspiration. The Grand Mufti el-Husseini is venerated as a hero by the PLO. It should be noted, that the PLO’s top figure in east Jerusalem today, Faisal Husseini, is the grandson to the Führer’s Mufti. Arafat also considers the Grand Mufti a respected educator and leader, and in 1985 declared it an honor to follow in his footsteps. Little wonder. In 1951, a close relative of the Mufti named Rahman Abdul Rauf el-Qudwa el-Husseini matriculated to the University of Cairo. The student decided to conceal his true identity and enlisted as “Yasser Arafat.”
More: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-gb&q=Hitler%2C+Palestine&btnG=Search
Biodegradeable: “Too much to fisk and too little time.”
That’s such a wonderful catch-all sentence, isn’t it? At a stroke it implies everything I’ve written is wrong, but you’re actually too busy to supply any evidence, so I’ll just have to take your word for it.
I’m not saying, incidentally, that elements of Islamic extremism do not have parallels with Nazi attitudes towards the Jewish people, because clearly they do. But what I am saying is it is palpably absurd to claim, as K does, that the BNP is less Nazi that all Muslims when it’s led by someone who is a proven Holocaust denier and with strong links to a KKK leader who attends conferences on Holocaust denial!
Biodegradeable: “Too much to fisk and too little time.”
That’s such a wonderful catch-all sentence, isn’t it? At a stroke it implies everything I’ve written is wrong, but you’re actually too busy to supply any evidence, so I’ll just have to take your word for it.
It’s a phrase that Bryan has coined. I’m not so much busy as tired – it’s 03:55 here in Spain and I should get some sleep.
Don’t take my word for anything, I’ve provided plenty of links that supply the evidence, feel free to read, digest, watch the movie, and do your own research before claiming that modern Islam has nothing to do with Nazism – it clearly has.
Good night.
Oh please. “Palestinefacts.org”? I back my case with articles from Wikipedia, the Daily Telegraph, the New York Post. What do you offer? An Israeli propaganda site. And a totally inaccurate one at that.
Look at this section in your quotation: “After the war, a member of Young Egypt named Gamal Abdul Nasser was among the officers who led the July 1952 revolution in Egypt. Their first act • following in Hitler’s footsteps • was to outlaw all other parties.”
Utter, utter tosh. Nasser was not a member of Young Egypt in 1952. The party wasn’t even called that by that time, having been going under the name of the Socialist Party of Egypt for some twelve years. And once Nasser had secured power, who were among the parties he disbanded? Why, the Socialist Party of Egypt. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misr_El-Fatah_%28Young_Egypt%29_Party)
PS I repeat, just to be clear: “I’m not saying, incidentally, that elements of Islamic extremism do not have parallels with Nazi attitudes towards the Jewish people, because clearly they do. But what I am saying is it is palpably absurd to claim, as K does, that the BNP is less Nazi that all Muslims when it’s led by someone who is a proven Holocaust denier and with strong links to a KKK leader who attends conferences on Holocaust denial!”
Good night to you too, my friend. How is Spain? My missus’ dad lives in Alicante. Not that he’s bothered to learn the language, mind. He’s from Yorkshire, so he just shouts at them and puts an “o” on the end of every word.
Hang on, why I am telling you this? What’s it got to do with BBC bias? Why aren’t I in bed?
Islamic inroads to Europe
If you thought Turkey was no threat to the West, think again. A new generation of politicians is aiming to Islamise the state by stealth.
Moreover, the party shares the Islamist belief that Europe will inevitably be conquered by the high birthrates of its Muslim inhabitants – and Turkey’s entry would immediately add some 70 million Muslims.
MORE
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21987691-5006003,00.html
Jo: and you are quite obviously a Fascist, being an apologist for the BNP. And Fascists stink. From henceforth I have you tagged as a troll.
Compare and contrast:
Major Terror Attack In London Foiled
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1272910,00.html
London ‘bomb’ made safe by police
BBC:
London ‘bomb’ made safe by police
sorry, the link for above story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6252276.stm
Sabre:
Keep on top of this story because I’ve a feeling that we are going to get raids later.
No doubt that was intended for the trendy tonight.No doubting the political overtones-this was entended as a “welcome” gift for Mr Brown.
Some more to compare and contrast with biased BBC:
‘Massive’ terror attack foiled in London
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1183053063782&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Fabio P.Barbieri | Homepage | 29.06.07 – 5:59 am | #
you are quite obviously a Fascist
Afraid not but one thing I am is too busy to rise to stupid comments made by stupid people.
Thom Boston
Anyone who is in the slightest critical of mass immigration is demonised by the media class and the gullible useful idiots who believe them. Hysteria, exaggeration and lies are used to silence to suppress what the majority in opinion poll after opinion poll say they want, which is an end to the open borders.
I think you need reminding what the leading light at the bbc has to say:
And the final answer, frankly, is the vigorous use of state power to coerce and repress. It may be my Presbyterian background, but I firmly believe that repression can be a great, civilising instrument for good. Stamp hard on certain ‘natural’ beliefs for long enough and you can almost kill them off. The police are first in line to be burdened further, but a new Race Relations Act will impose the will of the state on millions of other lives too.
Andrew marr
Thom Boston: I don’t usually get involved in other peoples arguments. But in this case I’m afraid I have to in which to clear the air. You wrote;
– Oh yes? I had a search on Amazon.com, to see exactly where it ranks as a “best-seller.” Guess what? THERE’S NO SUCH BOOK. Well, that’s a glaring error, don’t you think? So, thinking perhaps Amazon just don’t stock it, I searched for “Jihadi book” on Google. Nothing. If you’ve got the author’s name to hand, that would be useful. Otherwise I think I have to say this claim is false. Oh, and “Jihad” translates as “Holy War.” “Mein Kampf” translates as “My Struggle.” So you’ve even got the title of your non-existant book wrong…
First of all K wrote jihadi and not Jihad. As you correctly pointed out ‘Jihad’ means Holy war, Jihadi doesn’t and the nearest English equivalent is ‘Holy struggle’ not exactly a million miles away from “My Struggle”
Secondly the clue to the actual title of the book referred to by K, can be gleaned by the somewhat large clue he dropped by saying this;
“a translation from the original German meaning ‘Mein Kampf’ – the author’s name escapes me.”
As a matter of fact Mein Kampf is one of the biggest sellers in the Muslim world. But don’t take my word for it, please have a look at what the Guardian has to say on the subject. http://www.guardian.co.uk/turkey/story/0,,1447209,00.html
The BBC, Friday the holy day for a certain faith and half a story
Suspected bomb found in London
Police have made safe a suspected car bomb in the heart of London.
……………………….
Intelligence sources said they were keeping an open mind on who was responsible for the car bomb. “All options, including the Irish, are open at this stage,” said the source.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6252276.stm
pounce
“Police sources have confirmed that gas canisters were involved in the incident, close to Piccadilly Circus.”
Now according to CNN it is Petrol Cannisters as shown on there minute- by-minute coverage.
In the meantime BBC World “delights” us with a Marc Almond interview,I wonder if he was going to the Tiger Nightclub tonight?
Well I’ll tell you what, K took the long way round in making that point. If he’d have just said “Hitler’s Mein Kampf is one of the biggest sellers in the Muslim world” straight off I could have got on with tackling that point properly from the off.
You do know that Turkey is only one country, don’t you?
And I notice you make no reference to the fact that a week after that report about sales in Turkey, it transpired that publishers in Poland were struggling to keep up with demand for the book. I think even you would struggle to define Poland as part of the Islamic world. (And this is according to TotallyJewish.com, hardly the last bastion of pro-Islamic thinking: http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/special_reports/?content_id=381)) that website reported
Clearly I do not think it is a good thing that so many young Turks bought Mein Kampf, any more than I do the numbers of Poles. I would be concerned about both.
The Bomb story
BBC – “Irish”
Sky – “Islamists”
When the Truth comes out, BBC will say:
” UK govt is behind the Car-bomb plot, anew study says.. ”
just like Mossad is behind Six day war, a new documentary reveals…
Tom wrote;
You do know that Turkey is only one country, don’t you? And I notice you make no reference to the fact that a week after that report about sales in Turkey
Look mate, I said I don’t usually get embroiled in the who’s got the biggest dick in the shower arguments on this blog.. If you want to debate, please do. But at least take it on the chin that I disabled serial 1 of your argument, others have done the same to the other serials. If the best you can do is write the above in reply. Then that tells me you have lost the argument. Give it a rest and move onto something new.
Thom Boston,
Far be it for me to speak for pounce, but he has shown commendable restraint to you considering you implied his support for the BNP.
He is of asian extraction, I think neither he would support them or they would have him.
You may wish to take the opportunity to make it clear that you make no such allegation and withdraw such an inference.
Hmmmmm…
Actually were still waiting for JR’s “secret nine” BNP supporters identified by him on this site.
Prahaps we might get John Sweeny to come down and rant at us why are views are unacceptable while the like of BS,HH,JR and co spout all manner of bloocks.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
INGSOC
You do know that Turkey is only one country, don’t you?
Here’s another country:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F03%2F19%2Fnmein19.xml
Arabic editions of this book are selling like hot cakes and something tells me they’re not being purchased for scholarly research reasons.
BaggieJonathan: I don’t believe I have implied this about Pounce. I believed it about K, and very much took issue with K’s contention that Muslims are more Nazi than the BNP. If you can show me anywhere where I implied Pounce has BNP sympathies I’ll discuss this. He hasn’t made this case to me himself.
Pounce: Fine. If you want to unilaterally declare the argument over and you’ve won, that’s no problem with me.
It’s raining, it must be global warming, perhaps the BBC Ice Island has melted!
Anonymous: I think you’ll find Palestinian territories are not a country.
thom wrote…
(Please note I’m using Pounce’s phrase as an example of a general attitude; not specifically accusing him of being a BNP fan).
the word specifically is the turd in that little sentence chum….
I see the BNP smear is being bandied about on this log, what is with lefties who have to resort to these tactics when they have lost the arguments?
The war in Brazil
Not in Iraq Not Allied soldiers Not Iraqi civilians Not on the BBC TV News
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20070620173355417
o/t but a good read. Jeff Randall on Gordo:
Sweeping up after Gordon Brown
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/06/29/do2902.xml
Thom Boston:
Oh please. “Palestinefacts.org”? I back my case with articles from Wikipedia, the Daily Telegraph, the New York Post. What do you offer? An Israeli propaganda site. And a totally inaccurate one at that.
Of course, it’s all a Zionist plot!
Wikipedia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj_Amin_al-Husseini#Nazi_ties_and_activities_during_World_War_II
I also gave you this link:
http://christianactionforisrael.org/isreport/aug02/arafatnazi3.html
It’s history, no matter where you get it from, and your rejection of a Jewish source speaks volumes.
Your discounting of it, and your support of the MCB’s boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day excludes you from any further debate with me.
I think I saw your dad the other day in the market in Alicante shouting in English at a local – pity he couldn’t understand what the Spaniard said back to him.
Disaster for Brownstuff ! Theres hope for call me rapidly descending dave. It looks like the appalling woeful Short wants back in…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6252430.stm
thom boston – see call me daves post of 11:19.
Labour shows a contempt for Britain’s traditional identity:
The Government’s devotion to change reflects a suspicion, even contempt, for the traditional identity of Britain. Karl Marx wrote that “the philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it”.
Behind all the spin about meeting the needs of the public, Labour has sought to change for ever the fabric of our society. It is succeeding in those goals through the engines of European integration, mass immigration and the dogmatic enforcement of cultural diversity.
Britain has been undergoing a revolution in the past decade, one that has left our independence curtailed and our demography transformed. Overcrowded, divided, fearful and cowed, our green and pleasant land is no longer the country it once was. Change has meant the destruction of our nationhood. And there is no sign that Brown is going to halt this slide.
http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/11689/Leo+McKinstry
Credit to the BBC for amending that news article about the car bomb in London. But I must admit a little anger at how they could only point at the Irish in their little synopsis of who could have been behind it.
On another note. I know juries are told not to listen to the news on reaching their verdict. But it’s a bummer of a day of these heroes on their holyday.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6252130.stm
I wonder if it will result in appeal after appeal from these people if they are found guilty.
that was me above
Since someone is posting here as ‘call me dave’ I have now taken to referring to cameron as ‘call me rapidly descending dave’.
I wish to point out I am in no way at all connecting one with the other, I trust that resolves things, sorry for any confusion caused.
Alabala:
The Bomb story
BBC – “Irish”
Sky – “Islamists”
Reminds me how certain people in Spain tried to blame the March 11 bombs in Madrid on ETA – the trial of Islamist suspects is just coming to an end and some still are.
Latest BBC news says there was an “international” element. Worth noting the jury for the 21/7 trial retired yesterday to reach their verdict.
On News24 Frank Gardner has just given 5 minute expert analysis of London bomb.
He managed to avoid M or I word throughout. He explained that “extremists” regarded nightclubs as Hades, but we were not told what kind of extremists. Probably those Bush type Christians, I suppose.
Further, Gardner was at great pains to mention a similarity with Iraq, just to make sure that the viewer makes the connection – its ‘cos of the war.
Until it is determined that it was a failed suicide bomb, then it is no more the tactics of Iraq than previous vehicle bomb outrages in London or WTC 1993 etc
I’ll tell you what, Biodegradeable, you just go on making up what you think I wrote and responding to that. And I’ll go on writing what I actually mean.
You know, you can’t win an argument by deliberately misinterpreting my words when they’re there on the page. What do I say about the MCB? That not attending Holocaust Memorial Day “may appear obstinate, wrong-headed, insensitive, even opportunistic. It does not make them Nazis.”
And – as I make VERY clear – I reject Palestinianfacts.org not because it’s Israeli, but because it’s factually inaccurate.
Frank gardner did mention that it was the first Iraq Style bombing attempt in the UK? Not the first car bomb …. wont be surprised if BBC oull out the old foreign policy chestnut blaming Blair for this …. if only Al Brooun would be done with it and appoint Iqbal Sacranie of the Muslim Council of Britain as FM all will be well …
I reject Palestinianfacts.org not because it’s Israeli, but because it’s factually inaccurate.
Thom Boston | 29.06.07 – 12:28 pm
Please feel free to give us your version of the facts and indicate exactly which of the facts given by Palestinianfacts.org are incorrect or inaccurate. If neccesary compare with your preferred source, wikipedia, links to which I provide in my previous post.
Until it is determined that it was a failed suicide bomb, then it is no more the tactics of Iraq than previous vehicle bomb outrages in London or WTC 1993 etc
will | 29.06.07 – 12:28 pm
“If only our Muslim Brothers could give Imam Brooun a month to spell out our new betray and retreat Foreign policy then they will see that Britain is now firmly with them in their glorious struggle against the what the BBC would call the Jew(ish) Boosh … As Saalam to Imam Brooun …..” Sayedi Gardner.
Car bomb found in central London
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6252276.stm
“International elements” are believed to be involved, the BBC has been told.
“International Confederation of Plumbers” perhaps?
“The BBC’s security correspondent Frank Gardner said the incident had “come from nowhere”…
“Come from nowhere”? Where exactly has Frank “Don’t shoot – I’m a muslim!” Gardener been for the past few years?
And we’re paying for this drivel commentary….
The MCB’s statement on Holocaust Memorial Day begins, “The Nazi Holocaust was a truly evil and abhorrent crime and we stand together with our fellow British Jews in their sense of pain and anguish. None of us must ever forget how the Holocaust began.” They are not denying the Holocaust, what they seek is to have the name changed to Genocide Memorial Day. That may make them appear obstinate, wrong-headed, insensitive, even opportunistic. It does not make them Nazis. (The BNP, interestingly, DOES commemorate the day. Which is curious, as its leader is on record as describing it as the “Hoax of the Twentieth Century”).
Thom Boston | 29.06.07 – 2:21 am
If that isn’t a defence of the MCB’s stand on Holocaust Memorial Day I don’t know what is.
The attempt to change the name is an attempt to minimise the horror of a unique historic event and to draw false equivalencies with other genocides. Terrible as other examples of genocide and ethnic cleansing may be nothing compares with the Holocaust.
Oh come on guys, what can you expect when Tony Blair has been appointed as Middle East envoy?
But how long will it be before some preposterous Beeboid hints at this link?
if only Al Brooun would be done with it and appoint Iqbal Sacranie of the Muslim Council of Britain as FM all will be well …
Well Brown has made the first step by distancing himself from the US by the appointement of Malloch Brown to the FO (MB being more anti-US than a mere Bush hater).
Perhaps Sacranie will follow with imminent announcements of more junior ranks.
BBC website on the car bomb: “International elements” are believed to be involved, the BBC has been told.
What the f**k does this mean? The component elements of the bomb were international? The people involved were international? How do the BBC know and who told them? And do they actually mean a terrorist organisation? If so then say so!
Perhaps Sacranie will follow with imminent announcements of more junior ranks.
will | 29.06.07 – 12:49
May I suggest 3 anti-war eminences who will radically reshape our foreign policy for the good Abu Qatada and Dirham Barot two men of good will who have unsafe convictions and then of course Khatooun al Muslemoon that honorable lady (PBUH)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6252430.stm
and while Imam Brooun is at it … when will his government of all the talants reach out to these glorious figures.
http://www.respectcoalition.org/index.php?sec=31