may, as Damien Thompson pointed out, tread warily when it comes to investigating radical Islamists, leaving that sort of thing to Channel Four.
But you can’t fault them when it comes to keeping tabs on the SS Historical Re-enactment Menace. Nothing like a finely honed sense of priorities.
It surely can’t be long before the Second Battle Group turn up in an episode of Casualty.
Wait till Panorama discover their was a Muslim SS unit then they will be all over them and explaining how SSaphobia caused them to act that way 🙂
what a strange sense of priorities Panorama has when this sort of thing is going on in Liverpool:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,,2156010,00.html
“You can get a gun practically anywhere here, in a shop, in a newsagent even. It’s so easy – Mach 10s, Mach 11s [submachine guns], they would probably cost up to £400. There’s loads of Crocky carrying guns in their shorts.”
You shouldn’t sneer; the BBC has alerted us to a very real and present danger.
When I think of those massed ranks of snarling, Nordic storm-troopers ready to bomb us to hell…
Oh save us, save us…
it’s funny how the bbc goes to great lengths to downplay incidents of muslim/islamic involvement that might reflect negatively on islam, lest it “fuel” a POTENTIAL anti-muslim (over-)reaction and stereotyping in non-muslims, yet doesn’t seem to mind reporting anything that might provoke the same reactions in muslims despite RECORDED EVIDENCE of such reactions with violent and DEADLY results…
sorry
stereotyping in should rather read stereotyping of
Well done to the BBC for this. Brave, timely and “pull no punches” journalism at its best.
Well I guess by attacking easy/pointless targets the BBC is unlikely to end up being investigated by the West Midlands police and the CPS.
ersatz “cutting-edge” investigation to fool the unwary.
no doubt some will still imagine the bbc are relevant.
wont this investigation “provoke” Herr Hitler and his legions of stormtroopers?
Its not exactly going to be good for dialogue and understanding between the S.S. community and British citizens.
We need to reach out to the Nazis in order to encourage the more moderate elements of the National Socialist community. Maybe the government should appoint a Nazi Community Cohesion officer, and engage in a 5 point plan policy document in order to disuade Herr Hitler from invading Poland.
Not exactly unexpected tho’ is it? Some of the people who spend their weekends dressed as Nazis turn out to be extreme right-wingers with unpleasant views. Gosh, I’d never have guessed!
That said, I bet this lot were not investigated for links to communist groups or other mass-murdererophilic left wing nutters.
I’ve met some of these re-enactment types, even one in a German unit, and most of them are no more sinister than people who like model planes or reading books about tanks. Maybe there are a few nutters, but I think the SS re-enactment is more a means of attracting like-minded people than the actual cause and focus of their views.
MDC | 26.08.07 – 6:13 pm |
but I think the SS re-enactment is more a means of attracting like-minded people than the actual cause and focus of their views.
Yebbut, why the SS exactly when there are all the other groups you could choose, like the Wehrmacht for instance? Any WWII German society is bound to be a bit suspect simply because of the association with Hitler never mind the politics of the people involved. It may well be that the the majority of the people involved just like the uniforms and the equipment. I can sympathise with that, I have an interest in WWII too, but I wouldn’t want to emulate the SS. Do they, for instance, re-enact the death camps? Do they have members who dress up in stripy pyjamas and spend their afternoons in the shower? There has to be a point where the question of taste comes into play and I think the SS is one step too far.
NB Emulating the NKVD would also be one step too far before anyone thinks this is a political objection. I repeat, it’s a question of taste.
Mind you with the amount of Walts (Walter Mitties) we see on remembrance day parades with medals and the like that they never earned (if indeed they actually served!) at least if they are wearing the slashed runes of the Totenkopf Division or whatever then they are not trying to pretend they are Falklands vets or the like. You want to see some of the US re-enactment groups – fantastic detail and old uniforms and weapons. Really good and they practice so hard to get it right as they see themselves as keeping traditions and their history alive.
(That said the size of some of the Vietnam era paratroopers I saw in Florida at an Army display would cause some difficulties for the aircraft actually getting off the ground!)
“Yebbut, why the SS exactly when there are all the other groups you could choose, like the Wehrmacht for instance?”
Why might people choose the SAS over some other regiment? The whole idea of dressing up as soldiers in wars with living participants strikes me as a little bit in bad taste but I dont think that there is really much cause for deamonising people for it. Unless you know for sure you can’t assume they are Nazis, and if you do know they are Nazis presumably you dislike the fact that they are Nazis and not the clothes they’re wearing.
MDC | 26.08.07 – 8:43 pm |
Unless you know for sure you can’t assume they are Nazis, and if you do know they are Nazis presumably you dislike the fact that they are Nazis and not the clothes they’re wearing.
Doesn’t every sane person despise Nazis? What’s your point? Do you think being a Nazi is OK?
And no, I don’t think they are all Nazis. Some of them may well outweigh the pleasure of wearing a smart uniform with the disgust the sight of those uniforms holds for other people. Well, that’s as I said a question of taste. I wouldn’t do it but as a libertarian I don’t want to stop people doing it, I just think they aren’t really considering the effect those uniforms have on people, even today. Too many people died with those uniforms the last thing they saw to make it OK. For me at least, you may think different and that’s the joy of the world isn’t it?
Al Beeb thinks it’s OK to slag off Jews. Check this out:
http://theymadeitup.squarespace.com/the-latest-news-and-discussion/bbc-their-losing-hand.html
I now expect to see a posting saying that Israel is causing global warming.
I wonder how long it will take for the “authorities” to chuck me into prison for non-payment of the dreaded L-fee?
Sad but fairly typical to see BiasedBBC to jump to the defence of Nazis.
Just rename the site, wehate muslims.com
Baz:
“Sad but fairly typical to see BiasedBBC to jump to the defence of Nazis.”
Er..where exactly has it done that Baz?
why doesn’t the BBC cover the September 11 celebrations held within the UK in Mosques around the country? Be it only a limited number, it still takes place.
That would be good investigative journalism.
Oh…oh yes..I forgot. It is the BBC. No doubt it would be a better use of the telly tax to attack Conservatives, Traditional British values, Christians, White Middle-Class Britons, Rich people, any entity which makes a profit, The Church, Anyone who does not see the world in Center left wing eyes.
Ah yes…must not also forget to attach the Monarchy.
Why are all the BBC defenders like Baz so thick?
“Doesn’t every sane person despise Nazis? What’s your point?”
What? This has nothing to do with anything I said.
“Do you think being a Nazi is OK?”
That depends what you mean by “ok”. If you mean “Do you think being a Nazi should be a criminal offence”, like in Germany, then no I dont. I however am not a Nazi but a classic liberal, which is about as far away as you can get. I hardly see what this has to do with anything.
“And no, I don’t think they are all Nazis. Some of them may well outweigh the pleasure of wearing a smart uniform with the disgust the sight of those uniforms holds for other people. Well, that’s as I said a question of taste. I wouldn’t do it but as a libertarian I don’t want to stop people doing it, I just think they aren’t really considering the effect those uniforms have on people, even today. Too many people died with those uniforms the last thing they saw to make it OK. For me at least, you may think different and that’s the joy of the world isn’t it?”
Cromwell’s army also butchered civilians yet I dont think you’d take the same view of a Civil War re-enactment. Definitely there are people still alive who experienced it who wouldnt want to see people dressed in SS uniforms but its not like they parade about in the middle of the street where people have no choice but to watch. I personally wouldnt dress up as an SS soldier for precisely the reasons you described (and general lack of interest in historical re-enactment), but I dont think it should be banned. If people want to do this and you dont like it then just leave them in peace. They aren’t hurting anyone, nor are they forcing anyone to watch.
MDC | 27.08.07 – 12:02 pm |
I obviously misunderstood you as I agree with your last post entirely. In my defence it was rather early in the morning, M’Lud. ;.
it has to be said, the SS had all the best-lookin, stylish gear from WW2, and i can see why this might appeal to a certain mindset, irrespective of what nazism might represent politically.
(i seem to recall Bryan Ferry lambasted recently for admiring nazi-chic)
The Germans were good tough fighting soldiers. The Germans also developed the best military equipment.
I wonder if the Bum Bandit Corporation would have been so upset if these soldiers were dressed as World War 2 Russian Commies?
And what about all the lunatic Jihaddies that were running around London dressed as suicide bombers?
MDC: Definitely there are people still alive who experienced it who wouldnt want to see people dressed in SS uniforms but its not like they parade about in the middle of the street where people have no choice but to watch.
Actually here in the states the ACLU (in)famously defended the right of honest-to-God Nazis, (NOT reinactors) to parade in full gear down the streets of primarily Jewish suburb. Of course the public display of a cross or a creche are verboten for the ACLU, but the swatstika is a very different matter.
Anon:
Why are all the BBC defenders like Baz so thick?
Because they watch the BBC? Just a stab in the dark here, mind you.
Susan.
I note a slight problem with your logic.
If you watch the BBC you are thick.
To be aware of the BBC’s bias you have to watch it.
Ergo, all B-BBC commentators are either thick or are pontificating about something of which they have no first hand experience.
Personally I think Baz was just born thick.
Okay, good point. I’ll amend that to “because they watch the BBC and believe whatever it says?”
Happy now?
Granted,a possibly worthwhile but hardly relevant piece of investigative journalism.I wouldn`t want to live next door to a nazi apologist,but then they`re not bombing buses are they?
Raises a few questions though,How come the beeb didn`t pick up on The Great Global Warming Swindle? WHERE WERE YOU? Will auntie be covering the distasteful politics of that other group of weekend warriors known as Greenpeace? and most disgraceful of all why did we have to wait for Channel Fours Dispatches to expose the race hate disguised as faith in `undercover mosque.Once again, WHERE WERE YOU? If the bbc refuse to acknowledge that they are institutionally biased (`though they have, haven`t they?) then surely they must accept the charge that they are the worst kind of cowards,refusing to
join the fray until finding an `appropriate` enemy preferably white,who they can beat up on without fear of mass protests,accusations of racism or being targeted by bombers.
(after all how long has it been since the far right have been someones flavour of the month!)Please don`t even
pretend that programme had any weight of worthiness about it,easy targets do
not make heros.
I’m not thick, I scored very well in last nights ‘Test the Nation: the National IQ test’!
My point is this, I think the reaction to the programme here is very sad, and yet entirley predictible.
The BBC have an investigation into ‘weekend Nazis’ and the immediate reaction here is ‘Why make a programme about this and not Muslims?’.
It says a lot about you, not the BBC. And it turns my stomach.
but Baz, there are maybe a couple of hundred “weekend nazis” in the UK, and of those, a small % may have ultra-right sympathies.
Compare & contrast with a few hundred thousand muslims who have islamist sympathies, and a few thousand who are outright potential terrorists.
Who is the real danger here?… and why are the BBC investigating the former and not the latter??
We know why, dont we.
Quite, anything to distract the public from the real danger posed by radical Islam. How does the BBC try to do that? It looks around for a comparable threat. But naturally it can’t find one because there is no threat remotely comparable to radical Islam.
Take off your blinkers, Baz.
Did Cromwell slaughter civilians, apart from some camp-followers at one of his English battles ? I know he slaughtered the defenders of Drogheda and other places, which was, while disgraceful, “allowed” under the rules of siege warfare – but I thought women and children were out of bounds ?
Anyone know ? Slightly off topic I admit.
Baz, if you are not thick as you claim, how can you jump to the completely illogical and incorrect assumption that B-BBC contributors are closet Nazis? The majority of us here are liberals (small “l”) and have enough intelligence to spot that the real threat to our liberal society comes from theo-fascists and their lackeys at the BBC – not a small number of pathetic wannabe stormtroopers.
Now if the programme had “joined up the dots” and identified these individuals as practicing anti-semitic thugs, I could maybe see some point in it. But it didn’t, hence our complaints that the BBC are just raising a smokescreen to protect you-know-who.
towcestarian | 28.08.07 – 1:42 pm |
But it didn’t, hence our complaints that the BBC are just raising a smokescreen to protect you-know-who.
Why? Surely the BBC is simply anti-Nazi and uses them as ‘bogeymen’ whenever possible. As I and others have pointed out they don’t use communists in the same way.
The fact that they are less than keen to harry islamo-fascists is a separate, no less serious, failing.
Baz said “My point is this, I think the reaction tohttp://www.haloscan.com/members/posts.php
Manage Comments the programme here is very sad, and yet entirley predictible.”
No. That wasn’t your point. You said people here were defending Nazis: “Sad but fairly typical to see BiasedBBC to jump to the defence of Nazis”.
That was a load of rubbish, so you’re now pretending that your point was something else.
I vote for a BBC docudrama on the Muslim SS, that also highlights Hitler’s well-known admiration for Islam!
(When hell freezes over, I know.)
Fat Controller.
Of course it goes without saying that the BBC smokescreen will be one of the usual non-PC suspects. You just have to see who are the BBC house baddies in the execrable “Silent Witness” and “Spooks” to know who are eligible smokescreen material.
Baz – I hope you have recovered from your vomit session earlier.
I have to tell you that your puking was utterly unneccessary. You have got it completely wrong again.
If you fancy yourself as a latter day Simon Weisenthal I’m sure there are plenty of sites where you can fill your boots. 🙂
This site is dedicated to the BBC’s ‘issues’ – if you think that we are the ones with problems rather than al beeb you are living in denial.
“It says a lot about you, not the BBC. And it turns my stomach.”
To be fair, and I do not share the ‘Christianity Good, Islam Bad’ attitude of many people on this site, radical islam is a much more important concern in this country than radical fascism, which doesn’t seem to be any more than a bunch of sad middle aged men dressing up in costumes and ranting in each others’ basements. Of course I would disagree that Islam is the ”only” other pertinent topic this slot could be devoted to, or even the best, but it’s still an improvement.
*only
Forgot this wasnt wikipedia.
MDC
” I do not share the ‘Christianity Good, Islam Bad’ attitude of many people on this site”
“Many”? A minority I would say. As David Gregory found out recently you need to be careful about stereotyping us BBC-bashers. There are lots of reasons for hating the BBC and its corporate groupthink, not just religious ones.
One can’t deny that Al-Beeb seems obsessed with promoting and/or defending Islam and Muslims at every possible turn. Their relentless cheerleading for Islam and Muslim probably creates a lot of the resentment against the same.
“As David Gregory found out recently you need to be careful about stereotyping us BBC-bashers. There are lots of reasons for hating the BBC and its corporate groupthink, not just religious ones.”
I’m a “BBC-basher” too. But many people on this site (I didnt say most, I couldnt say exactly how many)give the impression that they are Christians and view it as a superior religion to Islam.
I personally am an atheist so I dont really see what all the fuss is about either way. I also dont think the BBC is actually biased against Christianity – it runs a number of Christian faith-based programmes, and seems to support the idea of faith and Christianity in general wherever it justifies their wider worldview (which dont include the condemnations of homosexuality and so forth admittedly but most Christians just ignore those bits and any other parts of the Bible they dont like so it isnt really incompatible with being a Christian these days).
But Islam these days is not a purely religious issue as Christianity is. Islam is like Christianity was a few hundred years ago – a political entity that has a relevant political dimension, and it makes perfect sense for investigative journalism to be directed towards it.
LT – re the defenders of Drogheda, I read something recently that seemed to be taking a revisionist line on that. That maybe the slaughter has been oversold, and didnt happen the way the popular version has it. Is that true? God knows.
Ive said it before, Casualty should have a bias blog on its own. It really is a one-programme cultural marxist propaganda machine
Anyone watch Panorama – Dog Fighting Undercover last night?
Who is a bigger threat to our way of life, dog fighting gangs or Muslims?
Nothing like a finely honed sense of priorities.
It surely can’t be long before the dog fighting gangs turn up in an episode of Casualty.
Lurker | 29.08.07 – 12:43 pm |
LT – re the defenders of Drogheda, I read something recently that seemed to be taking a revisionist line on that. That maybe the slaughter has been oversold, and didnt happen the way the popular version has it. Is that true? God knows.
Recent research (can’t give a source at the mo’ but I’ll dig it out) has pointed out that there is no mass grave at Drogheda, that the defenders were, mostly English Royalists and the number of dead was consistant with any violently ended siege. Not that you will hear this fairely debated on the BBC of course.
The programme was repeated last night and was the damp squib expected. Surprisingly some people who dress up as Nazis at weekends are actually fascists and have very unpleasant views (One would like to open a gas chamber for muslims). Well I never some people just don’t learn the lessons from history do they?