According to David Vance, the BBC ran a documentary last night about the Protestant exodus from Londonderry (some 18,000 people over 30 years leaving about 300 Protestants in a city of 54,000). His claims are interesting, as the BBC is, among other things, an apologist for the Tony Blair era Good Friday agreement. A whitewash of sectarian history could then be expected, and according to Vance was given as the BBC used talking heads to imply the exodus was some strange psychological phenomenon where inadequate Protestant hysterics lost their nerve, upped, and went.
But,
“Here’s what my wife experienced – not felt.
Her school bus was stoned on a regular basis as it travelled through the city centre. She and her friends had to lie on the floor to avoid being cut by glass. The “youths” who conducted this stoning came down from the Bogside, each day. Her mother was almost killed when an IRA bomb exploded in Shipquay street, without warning. Her swimming instructor, Norman Duddy, who was an RUC Inspector, was brutally shot dead, in front of his sons outside his place of worship. Who would stay in such a hell-hole?”
After viewing a clip of the programme, I concluded that though there are incidents of violence mentioned, the overall argument is that a few incidents created a psychological effect resulting in the exodus. Vance’s account- and others- suggests rather that pressure was directly applied and quite possibly systematically applied through violence and intimidation. Where were the British army at that time? Well, I suspect that’s really a central issue in this case- the willpower of one community backed by violence that wasn’t matched by the other. And that, perhaps, is the untold story the BBC won’t tell. And if the BBC, the British state organ, won’t tell a story that the Unionists need to be told, who will? And if they don’t tell it who can blame eager Irish Nationalists from assuming once again- as always- their untainted victim status?
Oh Boy,
Seems to me that the Protestants in Northern Ireland are going to end up like Jews in Palestine (i.e. non-existent). And, both with BBC’s blessing.
The odd thing is that the BBC is generally not in favour of ethnic or religious cleansing, whereas in this case it’s just one of those things. Those blinkered Protestants simply don’t understand that underneath the stoning, shooting etc, there’s a vibrant, cheerful republican culture that is simply misunderstood.
Well the BBC DID tend to push a pro IRA focus during the Troubles, deliberately trying to get around laws designed to lessen the impact of the IRA/Sinn Fein etc. Is anyone surprised at this sort of reporting that ignores the truth. And I can tell you now that the IRA/Sinn Fein are very much in control in some areas and do not hesitate to kill, injure and frighten those who do not obey. Have the BBC been to South Armagh lately? Try asking people in Cullyhanna and Crossmaglen if they really want the IRA in charge. You will get some interesting answers if no one else is about to grass off the people you talk to!
BBC – nothing British about us !
Of course, if these incidents had happened in the former Yugoslavia, the BBC’s tune might have been rather different.
i dont know why anyone would be at all surprised about this.
i visited Omagh town during the 80s and i was shocked at it – the town was literally divided down the middle (with a security wall and razor wire) between Protestant and Catholic.
i can understand the reasons , what with all the shootings and bombings going on, but to see that sort of blatant apartheid was an eye opener.
I think you’ve posted the wrong video clip. This couldn’t possibly be the documentary you are commenting on.
Don’t know what you’re talking about Joel. Please elucidate.
Yeah, right – Northern Ireland is being ethnically cleansed of Protestants… get real! Look at the figures, it’s just not true.
And what is this nonsense about the Republican/catholic (simplistic I know – but in keeping with the simplistic analysis the post displays) community prevailing because it had willpower backed by violence? Yeah, that’s why the Provos contacted British officials saying they wanted to end the war – in other words surrendering, largely because the catholic community in NI ended their tacit support for the catholic thugs when the protestant thugs started to outstrip the catholic thugs in terms of numbers they killed.
Did/does the BBC show bias in its Northern Ireland coverage? Probably. But that’s no reason for B-BBC contributors to write as though the British had surrendered and the Republicans were victorious: the IRA no longer exist as a violent republican militia. They may operate as regional thugs, an organised crime group, racketeers and murderers, and I don’t dismiss the seriousness of any of that, but let’s not forget one thing: as far as the war against Britain is concerned, they surrendered. They lost. The Unionist and British establishment outstayed them, kept its nerve. It may be distasteful that Sinn Feiners now sit as elected politicians in the Assembly, but that doesn’t mean they won. It means the opposite.
I have yet to read a single word on B-BBC about the Loyalist community’s own disgusting history of violence and murder. You seem determined to whitewash your dog in this fight every bit as much as the BBC has.
Sorry about the mixed metaphor there – can’t picture a whitewashed dog, but you get the point…
gharqad
“I have yet to read a single word on B-BBC about the Loyalist community’s own disgusting history of violence and murder. You seem determined to whitewash your dog in this fight every bit as much as the BBC has.”
B-BBC has no 3 billion budget
B-BBC is not a jounalistic organisation
B-BBC has no paid reporters
It is not B-BBC’s place to report these events however vile and disgusting that they undoubtedly were.
I suggest you go to a news outlet for that coverage, obviously it would appear not the BBC, but there are others.
Alternatively if you think it valid to a blog about BBC bias post it yourself.
But please stop referring to individual posters as a collective ‘you’, I for one have no respobsibility for their posts, or expecting any of us to give up our jobs and become reporters because it isn’t going to happen.
There’s no thread more likely to paint B-BBC as a bunch of narrow-minded pro-sectarian bigots than this one.
JohnA.
Ten commenters including you,hardly a good sample is it?
Anon
When you say you won’t see the reports on the BBC, is this because they are pro the Loyalists?
The general tone of your post suggests otherwise but then you suggest the BBC won’t report on Loyalist’s outrageous behaviour.
Ghargad
of the approx 3,500 people killed in the troubles , 90% were unionists.Seinn feinn/IRA cut a deal becuase their american backers suddenly were made to understood whar terrorism was all about.As for the BBC’s take on this , even poor old songs of praise was drafted in to paint a pro-republican picture
specifically
1.The unionist boast that londonderry as a “maiden city” because its walls were never breached was ridiculed by a (presumably ) republican local historian
2.OF all the victims of violence , they picked out one man blinded as a youth by a british army baton round
3.In the closing sequence , that camara panned (and held) shots of republican murals showing british troops kicking someone’s door in
clearly ther was no doubt where the BBC’s sympathy lay
Geoffrey:
Try not inventing statistics and calling it informed criticism.
Actual numbers:
Number of Catholics killed: 1525
Number of Protestants killed: 1250
Not from Northern Ireland: 691
Source: http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html
So the actual percentage of Unionists killed was: 1250 /(691+1250+1525) *100 = 36% of the total.
In addition around 1000 British soldiers were killed by Nationilist paramilitaries.
The IRA killed 790 Protestants, 338 Catholics and 568 others.
The UVF killed 89 Protestants, 265 Catholics and 42 others.
So for both the two most prominent sectarian terror groups, killing members of their own “community” – UVF 22%, IRA 20% was a key part of keeping that “community” onside. Although other groups like the “Official IRA” killed more of their own “community” than anyone outside.
None of the above is intended to indicate support for Protestants or Catholics, Unionists or Nationalists or any other group.
There is no “victim status” to be cultivated by either “side”. The resultant peace in Northern Ireland as a result (like it or not) of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent agreements could be seen by either side as a “victory”, for the Unionists, Northern Ireland remains part of the UK, for the Nationalists, they can choose to be UK or Irish citizens and the Protestant state-within-a-state has been destroyed, being replaced by power sharing and devolved government.
What has happened in Londonderry (called Derry by its residents) has been mirrored in the results of other sectarian conflicts like Bosnia and Cyprus.
I have more thoughts on Northern Ireland, but in the tradition of freedom of speech in the United Kingdom, I’ll keep them to myself.
“There’s no thread more likely to paint B-BBC as a bunch of narrow-minded pro-sectarian bigots than this one.” John A.
I would point out that I can hardly be called pro sectarian since I and around 33% of my Scottish Highland battalion at the time of my second tour (of nine tours) were Catholic… we tried to bring peace to BOTH sides.
One patrol I did in Crossmaglen was self (RC), rifleman from Benbecula(RC), ECM Op (R SIGNALS C of E from London) a radio op (Orangeman from Glasgow who used to fly across to Belfast every July to play his flute in the band…) PIG driver (Muslim! who once stopped the Pig (armoured vehicle) in the middle of the Square in XMG, pulled out a prayer mat and started praying in the middle of the compartment leaving us mutterin ‘hurry up you daft wee bugger…!) (The bugger did it for a £50 bet which we thought was mad since he wasn’t allowed to gamble according to him!)
If anything the British Army was a shining example to the locals of how to get on with each other without trying to blow each other’s brains out!
Yes, there were sectarian twits (mostly UDR some R IRISH in the 80s who all seemed to come from Liverpool!)but the vast majority of us went in and did our jobs without favour or prejudice.
Similarly B-BBC posters tend to come from ALL spectrums of opinions and political/racial/religious leanings so to try and claim that this thread shows we are pro sectarian rather shows your own intolerance does it not? Debate the issue not the person…
swap out the word protestants with muslims,and the bbc would call it ethnic cleansing.
wish they`d do a programme on what happened to the prods in the irish “free state”
It’s interesting that hardly anyone discussed the actual thread?
“Making Derry Derry”
I suppose that doesn’t really matter but ‘DAVID VANCE’ (and his wife) will be raging 🙂
Geoffrey: “of the approx 3,500 people killed in the troubles , 90% were unionists.Seinn feinn/IRA cut a deal becuase their american backers suddenly were made to understood whar terrorism was all about.”
Your first fact doesn’t tally with any other account of the figures I’ve ever read.
Your second assertion is irrelevant: the reasons for the IRA’s surrender do not negate the fact that they surrendered, and does not validate this post’s implication that somehow violence has won, that the Unionists are being ethnically cleansed, or that the UK government caved in. The IRA are not odious because they are republicans, they are odious because they tried to impose a united Ireland on a population democratically opposed to it by using murder and violence. Whether or not they wanted to surrender or whether American backers miraculously pressured them into it, they failed. And while this site doesn’t have a £3.2bn budget, I fail to see that as any excuse for it to post articles rewriting history in this manner.
On virtually every other issue, I am in complete agreement with this site, and I agree that the BBC are biased against the Unionist community in NI, I have no argument there – but it’s a pity that argument can’t be made without painting the Republicans as being somehow victorious in an effort to claim special ongoing victim status for the Unionist community.
gharqad | 12.01.08 – 10:55 am |
The Republicans do not need to claim victim status they get it whether they want it or not, gratis, from our own dear BBC.
One of the greatest acts of media hypocrocy ever was that from our own dear BBC in the way they treated the ‘Dear Leader’ Gerry Adams censorship. Compare how the Beeb went to such lengths to get Adams’ dictats out on the media to how it goes to such lengths to quash/silence the BNP. Only difference is a large number of voters incoveniently voted for the BNP; a large number of voters inconveniently got in the way of Mr Adams’ semtex.
Sam Duncan:
“Of course, if these incidents had happened in the former Yugoslavia, the BBC’s tune might have been rather different.”
Actually not, BBC is very consistent in taking sides.
Serb minority are being pelted with stones every day in Kosovo. Yet for BBC the Serbs are evil no matter the context.
John A
That will teach me to post in anger
Perhaps, as you have the facts to hand , you would mind telling me how many people were killed on the UK mainland by
1.Republican paramilitaries
2.Unionist Paramilitaries
thanks
It is said that Mo Mowlem used to call Martin McGuinness,”Babe”.
This is the saddest thread on any blog in the world!
Whinge whinge whinge and no evidence or links to FACTS
Grow up 🙂
Graphic irony cityman?
I have to agree with Dave A, the comments on this thread can only be classified as bigoted.
This thread comes on top of a previous one in which many posters showed a clear anti-gay bias against a BBC reporter who died of a drug overdose, one of the original posters actually claimed the man had died of AIDS, this sort of attacks makes you as bad as the BBC.
My opinion of this site has taken a massive nosedive, and has made me more sypathetic to the BBC.
While I’ve no wish to make excuses for the despicable campaigns of intimidation conducted by thugs from the Bogside or anywhere else, one point to note (which David Vance’s post makes clear – at least to anyone familiar with the geography of the city concerned) is that the exodus of protestants has not been from L’Derry as a whole, but rather, specifically, from the “city-side” region thereof (which is to say, that part of the city on the same side of the Foyle as the walled city and city centre- or the remaining protestant enclave, the Fountains district, but the opposite side from, for example, the railway station, and a large suburban and mostly residential area).
Unfortunately a similar story of this increasing segregation between the two main communities can be told all across NI (and other societies that have experienced similar conflicts)
Joe (The Netherlands)
Since you are so sympathetic to the BBC and you do not currently pay towards the BBC being in Holland would you agree to pay my licence fee for me to show your support for them?
I will happily provide you with details privately so you can pay the compulsory poll tax for me.
“the IRA no longer exist as a violent republican militia” –
irrelevant. The mass-murdering leaders of this disgusting Fascist organisation have been allowed to become ‘nice politicians’.