. It’s Friday and the BBC as ever is running a series of stories aimed at undermining the image of Israel. First up, at 6.55am on the Today programme we had an item on the “Investment conference” for the West Bank and Gaza. (Judea and Samaria) The key theme here was that these were great places to invest (!!!) but that the fact that those pesky Jews have such strict border restrictions in place does make such financial investment so much more difficult. Not a mention WHY Israel needs to have such strict security arrangements and not a mention of the fact that the savages in Hamas (My apologies to those tender souls who may object to me labelling Hamas as such but there you go, it’s accurate) have given Israel no choice in this matter whatsoever. Throughout it’s coverage of this region, the BBC consistently downplays the atrocious behaviour of the Palestinians who wallow in their own depravity. Then, having shilled for Hamas, the BBC runs a news item entitled “Blair jet faced Israeli warplanes”. My god, isn’t it bad enough that Israel denies Hamas the right to slaughter its citizens without confronting Mr Blair at 35,000 feet? Turns out that the story reduces to the fact that the jet carrying the former great leader failed to identify itself as it crossed Israeli air space. A better headline might have been “Israeli jets confront unidentified aircraft” but then why miss a chance to imply how aggrssive the Israelis are?
THOSE BAD ISRAELIS
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“Sue – I take it you do not find that odd?”
korova 25.05.08 – 11:28 am
Take it how you like. please. just take it.
Please stop wasting bandwidth by posting my comments over and over again. You really are an immense bore.
What a strange response. You’re not even going to condemn the misguided funding of a supposed “non-violent organization”? An organization run by a known anti-Israeli (who was a member of Egypt’s radical Muslim Brotherhood no less) that received funding/support from the Israelis? You have no opinion on this at all? I guess that is your perogative. So, one last time, does no-one find this odd? At all?
Well, Biodegradable, you do accuse me of “mis-representing” you, so I just want to ensure that I do not do so again.
Just STFU and let my comments speak for themselves.
“Oh, I see, finally it’s all become clear – the troll doesn’t understand the difference between ‘founded’ and ‘funded’:
“‘Look chaps, let’s make it clear. Biodegradable has accepted that Israel funded the immediate predecessor to Hamas’
“Unbelieveable”
-So even you accept it now?
No, you dumb little asshole and total liar. I do NOT accept it. I have never said that I accept it. Not one single word of anything I have ever written implies, however indirectly, that I am even inclined to vaguely accept it.
I was simply commenting on your utter illiteracy, or utter mendacity.
Either you are the most illiterate tosser who ever visited this board, or you are the most lying scumbag ever.
Which is it?
NO; it’s a troll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]
I really think we’ve fed it enough.
I hope it dies of indigestion.
I’m off to watch the Monaco Grand Prix on Spanish TV.
Spanish fans think F1 means Fernando nº1 😆
Nearly Oxfordian – So you do not accept that Israel funded a “non-violent organization”?
korova;
What part of FUCK OFF don’t you understand?
Biodegradable – I sense you regret saying that Israel funded Yassin’s “non-violent organization”.
Er, the “OFF” bit. 🙂
Biodegradable – I sense you regret saying that Israel funded Yassin’s “non-violent organization”.
korova | Homepage | 25.05.08 – 12:15 pm
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/6980329790174376469/#400256
.
Point made 🙂
I’m off now. I’m perplexed why no-one condemns the funding Israel gave to a certified Israel-hater, but I guess none of you will ever offer such condemnation. Still, maybe someone will surprise me.
Because you have not proved that it did, tosser. Which is why I cannot ‘accept’ or ‘not accept’ it. We don’t know. Neither do you. All you have posted is links to tittle-tattle
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tittle-tattle
Korova,
We have discussed Hamas then and now.
Hamas: The Early Years.
The sequel: The Killing Years.
We have discussed Mr. Netenyahu and you have told us you particularly hate him.
We have watched arguments about who said what, and who meant the other. Korova, you have succeeded in hijacking this thread by going round in circles, but getting nowhere. As Alex used to do.
I rarely succumbed to Alex, and I regret succumbing to you. You are arguing merely for the sake of it, or because you get pleasure from taunting people who feel passionately about something. You are not interested in the subject one iota. So I think you should go back to your very own website now. Best wishes with your perplexity.
Sue, the reason why I have continued posting was that it allowed you, Bio and me a chance to clarify our positions on various things. I see nothing regrettable in that. Troll was merely an inconsequential distraction.
Nearly Oxfordian – I am surprised, therefore, that you did not contradict Biodegradable when you had the chance.
No Sue, I merely want an answer to a reasonable question. I am not arguing ‘for the sake of it’. It has been said, by one a fellow Biased BBC commentator, that Israel funded the “non-violent organisation” that preceded Hamas. My contention, backed up by the Washington Institute, is that it was never an innocent “non-violent organization”, particularly given that it was led by a member of The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt who was involved in anti-Israeli activity. Personally, I find it strange that Israel funded this non-violent organization. It’s funny that, since the revelation that it was never a “non-violent organization”, this central point has been avoided at all costs and been replaced with personal attacks. Why is that?
Troll returned to this blog boasting to his pal “gunnar” that he only came here to taunt and that he would learn nothing from us.
As I said before, if he hasn’t learned anything it’s because he doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to learn anything that may change his preset ideas. Those ideas are second hand anyway, not thought out by him, merely borrowed from others without taking the trouble to verify whether they’re valid or not. He has no moral compass so right and wrong have no meaning for him. The length of time, and the times of day he spends here indicate that he doesn’t have a Life In The Real World. He would be a sad character if he weren’t so intrinsically evil.
Troll is willfully ignorant, and as the great American musician and businessman Frank Zappa once said, “Stupidity has a certain charm, ignorance does not.”
Now I’m off to watch Hamilton win at Monaco!
Nearly Oxfordian | 25.05.08 – 12:33 pm
Understood.
The smugness of the troll wore me out. The tenacity. The wriggling and twisting. Trolls always seem insincere and you get sucked in against your better judgment because you don’t know the depth of their ignorance or the breadth of their prejudice till it’s too late. It’s a sport, like angling and we get hooked.
Korava
I’m a haddock. But not your haddock.
“Stupidity has a certain charm, ignorance does not.”
Quite right, like the ignorance that leads to claims such as Israel funded Yassin’s “non-violent organization”. That really is ignorant and shows a distinct lack of understanding of Yassin.
you don’t know the depth of their ignorance
I seem to know rather more about Yassin and The Muslim Brotherhood than some of your fellow commentators.
Troll, it’s not for you to decree when I have or haven’t a chance to do something, or whether or not I should choose to contradict anyone. Your patronising smugness equals your stupidity, illiteracy, ignorance and mendacity.
Now fuck off.
🙁
korova | Homepage | 25.05.08 – 12:58 pm
“I seem to know rather more about Yassin and The Muslim Brotherhood than some of your fellow commentators.
korova 25.05.08 – 12:58 pm “
Good point troll. So you do.
So…why no documentaries on the lie that is palestine? Surely if the joooooos owned the worlds media they would have saturated the worlds media with stories about how evil arabs are etc?
OR…is this part of the evil jooooos master plan? To plant the world with anti-Israeli propaganda? Those cheeky devils!
Mailman
Well, Mailman, that would certainly be how Troll Logic would construe it.
Its 9/11 twoofer logic as well.
Mailman
sounds like your blog is a bit biased. How can you say Hamas gives Israel no choice when Hamas was a response to Israeli actions? I think you have your logic backwards.
Oh god, another antisemitic asshole.
Hamas was a response to Israeli actions?
kam | 25.05.08 – 11:40 pm
Coming out of the ideology of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood it would be more accurate to say that Hamas is a response to relatively secular Arab nationalism, as represented in the Palestine Authority by Fatah and Egypt by the succession of Nasser, Sadat and Mubarek. In a wider sense, it is a response-rejection of Western values.
The distinction is not academic. Hamas works towards the destruction of Israel because:
1) It is not acceptable for a non-Islamic powere to rule where Islam once ruled;
2) It is not acceptable for Jews to be in a superior position to Arabs;
3) Israel is seen to represent despised Western values.
It is not Israel’s actions (that would imply Israel could gain Hamas cooperation by acting differently) but Israel’s existence that pisses off Hamas.
I wish people would drop the canard that Israel established Hamas. If Israel initially supported Hamas as a moderate, community service oriented, traditional religious virtues, counterbalance to the PLO they have long been disillusioned of that particular fantasy.
An absolute classic from The Peoples Cube written a few years ago….
Persistent rhetoric coming from concerned progressive critics worldwide has finally convinced Israeli officials that the state of Israel has no moral right to exist. “That’s it,” Prime Minister Ariel Sharon explained at a press conference. “We are dismantling the Nation of Israel. I’m leaving for Poland next week.”
“My cabinet and I had long discussions about world troubles, and we concluded that our critics are right – all the troubles can be traced back to us. So, in order to resolve these issues, we felt it would be best to extend our withdrawal beyond Gaza to include the West Bank and Israel proper,” Sharon said. “The Gaza pullout was only a test, and the ensuing waves of peace and brotherhood it had triggered in Palestine and beyond, encouraged us to disband altogether. Without us here, people of the world will finally be able, once again, to live in permanent harmony and understanding – just like they all did before Israel’s founding nearly sixty years ago.”
From Russia to Morocco to Yemen to France, countries are anticipating the arrival of Israelis. In Moscow, an enormous banner was erected that read “Welcome Home, Jews.” and erstwhile presidential candidate Vladimir Zhirinovsky exclaimed, “I’m going to bake a huge batch of cookies for this homecoming!” And in cities throughout Germany, joyous “Judenfests” were ubiquitous, as local citizens were arranging festivals to celebrate the Jewish arrival. German foreign minister Joschka Fischer indicated that, “For some reason, the Jewish presence in Germany is low by historical standards; many of our citizens under the age of 70 have never even met a Jew. In addition to curing the world’s problems, the dismantling of Israel will give our people the opportunity to achieve their main wish in life – to live with Jews.”
Similarly, the new Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has kicked off a popular “Iran-loves-Jews” campaign that will include a sensitive re-writing of the laws to accommodate religions other than Islam. He explained, “With the Zionist entity out of the way, the Iranian government will tone down its violent and threatening rhetoric, dismantle its nuclear program, and stop funding Hezbollah and other terrorist groups. As a matter of fact, I might even resign my position and award the presidency to someone else. Do you think Schwarzenegger is available?”
A spokesperson for Hezbollah stated that Iran’s proposal wouldn’t matter. “We don’t need the funding because we no longer have any reason to exist. We disposed of our weapons, and will now re-focus on opening a chain of pizzerias. You just can’t get decent pizza around here, and we’re going to change that.”
He was joined by a former high-ranking member of Hamas: “Yeah, we also pretty much accomplished what we wanted. We’ll get together for reunions now and then, but otherwise, we’ll just settle down into normal lifestyles. You know… mortgage, house, bowling, PTA meetings…”
Al Qaeda has also released a statement that read: “As the entire world knows, the Zionist presence in our Holy Palestine has been the only reason for our existence. This is why we attacked the World Trade Center and why we murdered Americans in Iraq. It’s why we bombed Paris, London, and Bali, why we exploded buildings in Saudi Arabia, and why we enabled murders and terrorist activities in Thailand, Kashmir, Russia, Morocco, Nigeria, India, and the Philippines. But now, with Palestine returned to our brothers, all operations will cease. This is effective immediately and is irrevocable. We will now form The International Peace Corps and of course pay reparations to the non-Israelis who we murdered.”
In the new country of Palestine, there are already signs of promise. President Abu Mazen elaborated, “We’re adopting the American Constitution as our legal model. We believe that our future is in limited government; free markets, rule of law, respect for contracts and individual rights. And by attracting foreign investment, our highly educated and motivated workforce will soon become the most affluent in the region. In our own country, we will bring to fruition all the programs that we started in refugee camps, such as our breakthroughs in medicine, education, applied and theoretical sciences, nanotechnology, and space exploration.”
When asked why these breakthroughs were not previously revealed, he replied, “Yassir always wanted an open and liberal society that encouraged free thought, free expression, and academic exploration, but it was impossible with the Zionist enemy next door. But now, our pent-up contributions in science and the humanities will finally be released. With this release of pressure, our accomplishments will explode faster than our martyrs used to!”
But most significantly, the end of Israel will have a large impact on United States policy. In an earlier press conference, President Bush had these words:
“As we all know, the only reason for our toppling of Saddam Hussein was to obey my superiors, the well-funded Zionist lobby, without understanding why. However, as Israel no longer exists, we will immediately withdraw all American troops from Iraq, suspend their new constitution, and halt all construction of schools and hospitals. But most importantly, we will be returning Saddam Hussein to his presidency, and pay him FEMA reparations for the Israeli-ordered murder of his sons.
“Furthermore, I want to extend an invitation to my colleague and close personal friend, Jacques Chirac, to rebuild French nuclear reactors in Iraq. Saddam Hussein needs nuclear weapons, and this time, the Israelis will not be around to destroy them.
“To our friend Saddam Hussein, America says, ‘Can you forgive us?’ Israel lied, we lied, I lied, and everyone died. We know that it was because of Israel that you praised the September 11th attacks, and that you sheltered terrorists, and that you (rightfully) wanted nuclear weapons, and that you gassed the Kurds, and buried thousands in mass graves. Certainly, any dictator who blatantly expresses delight at watching Americans die, has a track record of invading other countries, uses chemical weapons, and actively seeks nuclear weapons could never in any way be even a remote threat to the United States. And now, with Israel out of the way, we are proud to welcome President Saddam Hussein back into our family of nations.”
One particular family of nations is very concerned, “With Israel gone, there’s nothing left for us to do,” says a United Nations staffer. “Since the world’s conflicts will be over, we’re worried that they won’t need us any more.” An anonymous U.N. delegate shared his concern: “I’ve even heard that they considered converting the U.N. building into condominiums, but there are too many cockroaches. Why would that matter? In my country, we pay a premium to live with cockroaches!”
The most important opinion came from the mourning Cindy Sheehan, with a nation hanging onto her every pearl of maternal insight: “Thank goodness this is over and I can now disappear into obscurity. And…wait a minute…is that my son speaking? Yes it is! He is saying,”Mother…mother…I am so grateful that Israel no longer exists! Mother, I am so happy that no other helpless children, like myself, will ever die in wars again!”
A large group of neo-Nazis who happened to be visiting Ms. Sheehan at the moment seemed upbeat: “With Israel gone, we’ll be shutting down our web sites and closing meeting centers. Now that our job is done, you’ll never hear from us again.”
David Duke agreed. Contacted at his home, he said that he was leaving politics. “My life’s work is finished; no more politics for me. I’m taking down my web site, too. Think I’ll quietly live out my days in front of the TV.”
And finally, Kim Jung-il of North Korea has promised to free his nation. “Whatever it takes,” he said. “Now that I no longer have to waste my days worrying about Israel, I had time to read Atlas Shrugged and suddenly realized what an idiot I’ve been all these years. Do you think South Koreans would mind if we dismantle the border and join forces in generating capitalist wealth?”
http://thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=307
kam:
sounds like your blog is a bit biased. How can you say Hamas gives Israel no choice when Hamas was a response to Israeli actions? I think you have your logic backwards.
kam | 25.05.08 – 11:40 pm | #
Nearly Oxfordian:
Oh god, another antisemitic asshole.
Nearly Oxfordian | 26.05.08 – 9:31 am | #
Guess he’s one kam sandwich short of a picnic.
actually I’m not and have many friends who are Jewish. I just don’t agree with Israeli’s political policies. Comments like the one you just spewed are what cripples any sort of real debate.
If Israel initially supported Hamas as a moderate, community service oriented, traditional religious virtues, counterbalance to the PLO they have long been disillusioned of that particular fantasy.
deegee | 26.05.08 – 9:44 am | #
But they never were. As the Washington Institute points out, Yassin was involved in anti-Israeli activity before he established the Gaza chapter.
Nearly Oxfordian:
Oh god, another antisemitic asshole.
Nearly Oxfordian | 26.05.08 – 9:31 am | #
Who is the other one Nearly Oxfordian? You really are a brain dead muppet aren’t you? As is demonstrated by your utter inability to disprove my argument that Israel funded Yassin’s organisation.
“actually I’m not and have many friends who are Jewish”
The standard dumb figleaf of the antisemite.
To claim that the genocidal Hamas is merely reacting to Israel’s actions is what stops real debate, because it shows that you have exactly nil knowledge of the ME and yet come out with this drivel.
Korova, my dear moron: how many times have you been told to fuck off?
Since you claim that you have nothing to learn here (which is the standard statement of the ignorant), wouldn’t you be better off practising your alphabet?
have many friends who are Jewish. unfortunately the some of my best friends are Jewish is considered to be the classic sign of the antisemite. I suggest you read Some of my best friends are anti-Semitic to better understand why. I further suggest you stop using that comment is you don’t want to lose some of those Jewish friends.
Comments like the one you just spewed are what cripples any sort of real debate.
kam | 26.05.08 – 11:14 am
Couldn’t agree more. 🙁 The degree of abuse recently in this blog is distressing.
DON’T FEED THE TROLLS and they will find somewhere else to feed.
Nearly Oxfordian – I can only presume that you are called that because if you were an Oxfordian your arguments would be ripped to shreds in seconds. Why, instead of dealing with the points in hand and using evidence to back up your perspective to you continuously resort to insults? Looking back through this thread I cannot see a single statement backed by evidence and instead there is a continual stream of insults. You clearly know fuck all about the Middle East, despite what you claim.
deegee – you wrote:
If Israel initially supported Hamas as a moderate, community service oriented, traditional religious virtues, counterbalance to the PLO they have long been disillusioned of that particular fantasy.
How do you square this with the activities of Yassin?
deegee | 26.05.08 – 12:47 pm |
Some of my best friends are white Christians does that make me anti-them?
Can I not critise them when they do something silly without being called ‘anti-them’?
Can I only critise people of the same faith as me then?
I have no Jewish friends…
And I yet fully support the state of Israel (but not Olmert).
I am also a Zionist, and fully support the Jews struggle against the Arabs currently trying to kill them from Gaza and the West Bank…
Mind you, I have many British friends who know nothing about Israel and the Jews apart from the relentless anti-Jew rhetoric that passes for “dialogue” on the BBC and the media in general.
Is that okay with you kam sandwich?
“Who is the other one Nearly Oxfordian? You really are a brain dead muppet aren’t you? As is demonstrated by your utter inability to disprove my argument that Israel funded Yassin’s organisation”
I have never even –attempted– to ‘disprove’ it, you pathetic illiterate. I never said one word about the truth of this claim, one way or t’other. For all I know, it may even be true. Or it may be false. You claimed it, now you prove it.
For a pathetic little dumbo like you to say this:
“I can only presume that you are called that because if you were an Oxfordian your arguments would be ripped to shreds in seconds”
is beyond comedy, because you are not even capable of recognising an argument, never mind understanding what constitutes support for it or evidence against it.
The fact that you continually attribute to me things I have never once said, and then jump up and down and shout: “Look, mummy, mummy, I am so clever!”, proves that you should repeat year 2.
“You clearly know fuck all about the Middle East, despite what you claim”
ROFLMAOWMP
I lived in the ME for many years. You have never been beyond Dover.
“Can I only critise people of the same faith as me then?”
In the first place, Jews are a nation.
In the second place, it’s the totsally ignorant, relentless, one-sided, hysterical, hate-filled anti-Israel screeching that we object to.
“Can I not critise them when they do something silly without being called ‘anti-them’? Can I only critise people of the same faith as me then?”
The Cattle Prod of Destiny | 26.05.08 – 1:32 pm
Yes, I decree that Mr Destiny can only criticise people of the same faith as him, should they ever do something silly.
I decree that he can also criticise people of the same name as him if they do something extremely silly, or a rhyming name, should there be such a thing, if they do something silly, or if they do something rhyming.
Call me anti-cattleprodist if you like but in the unlikely event of him doing something silly I will criticise only that action, and no criticism of other cps of d are implied.
If the aforementioned cp of ds should ever establish a national state, no criticism of that silly state will be judged to have any implication whatsoever regarding anyone’s attitude to cattle, prods, destinies or spiros. Some of whom are best friends and some of who have never met any but just know something or other that they may have heard on the BBC.
Whether or not their secret service Prossad is behind all or most of the evils of the world, or their esteemed book, ‘the protocols of the cattle prods of destiny,’ is a fabrication, or a true representation of their ultimate goal, world domination, this should be no barrier to debate.
This debate should be circular, with no end and no beginning and should include, at regular intervals, individuals who have come in halfway through or just before the end demanding to be told the whole plot right from the beginning.
Help us we are caught in a never ending loop, and have you noticed that this question has now wormed its way onto another thread.
sorry.
In the first place, Jews are a nation.
Are they? That’s news to me.
You claimed it, now you prove it.
I provided a link that said that documents released from the Israel-based Institute for Counter Terrorism proved this. You must have a very high burden of proof as you appear to want to see the very documents that say this. How do you come to rational conclusions about anything when you need to see first-hand the evidence before you develop an opinion?
Some of my best friends are white Christians does that make me anti-them?
The Cattle Prod of Destiny | 26.05.08 – 1:32 pm
I have been trying to find the origin of the phrase “Some of my best friends are Jewish” and the connection to denial of antisemitism by clear antisemites. C.Jung, the psychiatrist apparently said it, referring to Nazi antisemitism. Hermann Goering, the Nazi leader is also credited with saying it. I couldn’t run down either quote.
Considerable research has been done on the irrationality of racism, yielding many equivalents of the notorious remark:
“Some of my best friends are Jewish but ….”See, e.g., N. ACKERMAN & M. JAHODA, ANTISEMITISM AND EMOTIONAL DISORDER: A PSYCHOANALYTIC INTERPRETATION 82-84 (1950) (antisemitism persisting notwithstanding many positive contacts with Jews); B. BETTELHEIM & M. JANOWITZ, DYNAMICS OF PREJUDICE: A PSYCHOLOGICAL AND SOCIOLOGICAL STUDY OF VETERANS (1950) (study of World War II veterans in the Chicago area concluded that most prejudiced people base their attitudes on untested preconceptions rather than personal experience;
one veteran remarked, “There was one Jewish fellow in our outfit whom I liked especially. He wasn’t like the ordinary run of Jews, that’s why I remember him.”); G. SELZNICK &
S. STEINBERG,THE TENACITY OF PREJUDICE IN ANTISEMITISM IN CONTEMPORARY AMERICA(1969);
The point I was making was that the phrase is so strongly associated with denial by antisemites that anyone using it risked being branded as antisemitic. It’s not having friends that is the problem but the connotation of the words that having (or claiming) Jewish friends somehow sanitizes strong predudice against the Jews.
If you are interested in following this through try googling “Some of my best friends are Jewish” for hundreds of examples.
-In the first place, Jews are a nation.
-Are they? That’s news to me.
There you have it. The mega-moron and total ignoramus doesn’t even know that the Jews are a nation, and yet it opens its mouth and tries to lecture to us about the Middle East, Israel and Jews.
Thanks, deegee – most interesting.
If Israel initially supported Hamas as a moderate, community service oriented, traditional religious virtues, counterbalance to the PLO they have long been disillusioned of that particular fantasy.
How do you square this with the activities of Yassin?
korova | Homepage | 26.05.08 – 1:29 pm
Cognitive dissonance? Wishful thinking? The enemy of my enemy is my friend? A belief that his bark was worse that his bark? The lesser of the two evils? Perhaps he was a convincing liar?
Whatever. Israel, not for the last time, misread its enemies.
deegee | 26.05.08 – 6:26 pm |
I have been trying to find the origin of the phrase “Some of my best friends are Jewish” and the connection to denial of antisemitism by clear antisemites
I have no argument with you there but it’s those who are not clearly antisemites that I think are done a wrong by the assumption you make. Not everyone who critises Israel is an anti-semite. Sure lots of people who do are but not EVERYBODY is. Some people believe Israel has a right to exist but don’t always see eye-to-eye with how they manage to survive. There are plenty of Jews who do not agree 100% with everything Israel does.
Of course the big problem here is finding out exactly what Israel has done. I wouldn’t trust New International, the Grauniad or the Indie to tell me because they only have one, anti-semetic, thread. I’d like the BBC to tell me what is happening in Isreal but they don’t. They tell me what Hamas/Fatah et al tell them is happening. Hence one of the reaons I haunt this board, spear (or spiro – geddit?) in hand.
Contrarywise everybody who crisises Jews is an anti-semite just as anyone who critises muslims is an Islamophobe. However it is not anti-semetic to crisise a Jew nor Islamophobic to critise the muppets who blow themselves up for Allah.
Oh and just to throw a fish into the water and see if it’s circumsised – what exactly do you think my ‘faith’ is.
[Ducks behind the parapet helmie]
Is Spiro really spear, or is it spiral? 😉
No, really, I am curious.
“Some people believe Israel has a right to exist but don’t always see eye-to-eye with how they manage to survive”
Now, you see, I have a real problem with this phrase, ‘Israel’s right to exist’. Imo, that’s nonsense – no offence to you intended. I’d say it has an automatic right to exist in just the same way as England has, or France, or Sweden: it’s the country of a particular nation, always has been (in principle, that is, barring foreign conquest). Just as Poland is still the country of the Poles, despite being occupied by Germany in WWII, Israel is still the country of the Jews. That seems to me axiomatic, unless you start debating Poland’s ‘right to exist’ etc. Such debates are simply distractions, and anyone who starts debating it is someone with whom I don’t know how to connect.
One may, of course, disagree with certain practical issues. But imo, anything at all in the historical context as it obtains today that is done to stop the genocidal plan by the Arabs, and done for no other purpose, and where nothing short of that will do, is potentially an OK approach. And I don’t think Israel has done anything that is beyond the absolutely necessary, give or take a few minor details that don’t by a factor of 1000 justify the hysterical opporbrium it attracts and that don’t amount to more than ordinary human fallibility. For example, any other country would have launched a huge aerial operation against such a neighbour that keeps shelling it, and stopped it within 24 hours for good.