. It’s Friday and the BBC as ever is running a series of stories aimed at undermining the image of Israel. First up, at 6.55am on the Today programme we had an item on the “Investment conference” for the West Bank and Gaza. (Judea and Samaria) The key theme here was that these were great places to invest (!!!) but that the fact that those pesky Jews have such strict border restrictions in place does make such financial investment so much more difficult. Not a mention WHY Israel needs to have such strict security arrangements and not a mention of the fact that the savages in Hamas (My apologies to those tender souls who may object to me labelling Hamas as such but there you go, it’s accurate) have given Israel no choice in this matter whatsoever. Throughout it’s coverage of this region, the BBC consistently downplays the atrocious behaviour of the Palestinians who wallow in their own depravity. Then, having shilled for Hamas, the BBC runs a news item entitled “Blair jet faced Israeli warplanes”. My god, isn’t it bad enough that Israel denies Hamas the right to slaughter its citizens without confronting Mr Blair at 35,000 feet? Turns out that the story reduces to the fact that the jet carrying the former great leader failed to identify itself as it crossed Israeli air space. A better headline might have been “Israeli jets confront unidentified aircraft” but then why miss a chance to imply how aggrssive the Israelis are?
THOSE BAD ISRAELIS
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The mega-moron and total ignoramus doesn’t even know that the Jews are a nation.
The Jews aren’t a fucking nation moron. Jews are an ethnic or religious group. Israel is a nation.
http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm#Nation
You really are one of the most simple minded gimps I have ever come across on any website ever.
Might be interesting to note, as you might have noticed from the link, many anti-semites use the argument that ‘Jews are a nation’ to suggest that, in some perverse way, they have divided loyalties. Are you suggesting something Nearly Oxfordian?
Not everyone who critises Israel is an anti-semite.
No, but many, if not most people who try to sanitize (thanks deegee) their criticism of Israel by declaring that they have Jewish friends are indeed antisemites, Jewish friends or not.
The Jews aren’t a fucking nation moron.
You really are one of the most simple minded gimps I have ever come across on any website ever.
korova | Homepage | 27.05.08 – 12:12 am
David V,
Could it be time to put korova in the ban corner for a while, please?
http://www.googleitfirst.com/search.php?query=jews as a nation
try this:
http://www.googleitfirst.com/search.php?query=jews%20as%20a%20nation
Here’s korova responding to my comment about the King David Hotel bombing, my emphasis in bold:
So it was our fault?? The victims were at fault and not the perpetrators? This is a novel new argument from the right.
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/6980329790174376469/#400179
People here with stronger stomachs than mine have accessed korova’s site and apparently he sees himself as an anarchist. So why the our? An anarchist who identifies strongly with fellow Britons against the Jews? Seems more like a patriot to me.
Korova is a posturing liar, as I pointed out here
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/6980329790174376469/#400194
who pretends to be interested in reasonable debate and analysis but in fact adopts any old convenient stance in order to spread his bias around the place. In that, he is pretty much like the BBC. Probably works for the propagandists.
I note that korova has avoided responding to this pertinent observation by deegee on Israel’s support for the pre-Hamas Yassin:
Cognitive dissonance? Wishful thinking? The enemy of my enemy is my friend? A belief that his bark was worse that his bark? The lesser of the two evils? Perhaps he was a convincing liar?
Whatever. Israel, not for the last time, misread its enemies.
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/6980329790174376469/#400486
People like korova always hide from the light of truth when it shines on their prejudices. He is also a fine example of the closet anti-Semite who will hammer away at any stale old argument to try to discredit Israel/the Jews but will ignore the rich field he could productively be mining in the backyards of the enemies of Israel/the Jews.
This is a site about BBC bias. I’ve had enough of engaging with trolls and I know all their tricks to draw people into “debate” – which is really just an attempt to gain support for their own prejudices.
Nation: A group of people who share a common cultural inheritance and regard themselves as a natural political community.
So widely accepted is the idea of nation that its distinctive features are seldom examined or questioned; the nation is simply taken for granted.
Objectively – same language; same religion; shared past and so on.
Andrew Heyward, Politics 3rd edition, PALGRAVE-MCMILLAN, 2007, the source of the above quotes devotes an entire chapter to the idea of nationhood and the difficulty of precisely defining what makes one group of people a nation and another not.
This group (biased-bbc) will never reach a consensus and abusive back and forth bickering only takes us away from BBC criticism – the reason for this blog.
For what it’s worth. The Jews are among the few groups who are still considered both nation and religion (Tibetans?). It is in the interest of the Palestinians to deny this as they deny any Jewish connection to the country and for the BBC as generally faithful bearers of the Palestinian narrative to support that claim.
I strongly suggest we move on. 😉 Excellent discussion on Nation in Wikipedia should there be genuine interest.
I second that motion. Deegee, did you manage to get to Jacob’s Ladder? I really wanted to go, but circs did not permit.
“The Jews aren’t a fucking nation moron. Jews are an ethnic or religious group. Israel is a nation”
From a total ignoramus (oh yes, and an asshole who complained about ME using abusive terms).
OK, hands up those here who think the Jews are not a nation …
… and those who think they are.
Nearly oxfordian – i congratulate you on being officially the stupidest person i have ever encountered. Well done.
Why, don’t you ever look in the mirror, dumbo?
Enough already!
Let’s please just scroll past korova.
If we stop responding to it I’m sure it’ll just crawl away. After all, there’s so much going on over at his own blog that I’m amazed he finds the time to comment here anyway.
Bio,
N.O. is altruistically satisfying Korova’s need for attention.
He realises Korova’s repetitive comments are merely a cry for help.
Alternative course of action: everyone go over to his blog and comment.
Can’t be arsed? No, neither can I.
Can’t be arsed? No, neither can I.
Sue | 27.05.08 – 1:34 pm
I believe ignoring it is the worst we can do, it so craves our attention. So let’s do our worst.
OK 😉
Nearly Oxfordian:
Is Spiro really spear, or is it spiral?
It’s Spiro Destiny as in Spear of Destiny – a joke that only obviously works in my accent. I know, I’d get out more but the slave girls won’t let me.
As for the rights thing that’s just me being lazy; I don’t believe in ‘rights’ but sometimes the deluge of rights culture agitprop seeps into one’s consciousness when typing quickly. I do actually agree with you but others others don’t. You’ll never get anyone with an entrenched opposite view to you to agree with you so why bother eh?
Biodegradeable
I understand what you are saying but I don’t take such a hard line view. I know what anti-semitism looks like but I gave up looking for it a long time ago. In every 10 people that hate me I’d say there are at least 5 who just hate me, the rest are anti-semites.
At the risk of seeming liberal it’s the hate that’s wrong not the reason …
Anyway stop feeding the pesky trolls it’s not good for your digestion 🙂
I do actually agree with you
Which bit?
I know what anti-semitism looks like but I gave up looking for it a long time ago
No need to go looking when it comes looking for you – Al Beeb, Guardian, korova …
Biodegradable:
Enough already!
Let’s please just scroll past korova.
If we stop responding to it I’m sure it’ll just crawl away. After all, there’s so much going on over at his own blog that I’m amazed he finds the time to comment here anyway.
Biodegradable | 27.05.08 – 1:20 pm | #
Yes, I guess you would say that saying how silly I made you look. So, Yassin and his “non-violent organisation”…….
Nearly Oxfordian – How much longer are you going to continue to slander me in public? Please justify your position through reprinting alleged anti-Semitic remarks made by myself and the exact hyperlink.
At the risk of seeming liberal it’s the hate that’s wrong not the reason …
Of course, but antisemitism is, as they say, “the oldest hatred”, and in my view the most illogical because there really is no reason.
One can understand the Poles hating the Germans for invading their country. One can understand the Serbs, Croats and Kosovars for all hating each other, they all could have valid reasons. But all the ‘reasons’ given over the centuries for hating Jews are excuses, not reasons, just like the excuse given these days that some of the most vile antisemitic libel is simply “criticism of Israel” and not expression of hatred of the Jews. Sorry, I don’t buy it.
Anyway stop feeding the pesky trolls it’s not good for your digestion
The Cattle Prod of Destiny | 27.05.08 – 9:46 pm
So far I’m resisting, and hope Nearly O and others can too. It’s like giving up smoking, the longer you go without a ciggie the easier it gets 😉
It seems to be working, the troll is now spamming other threads with his week old Yassin nonsense to no avail.
It must really hurt to be ignored.
Good going bio, you are right. I found the first three days were the hardest – sort of a hurdle to be overcome. Then three weeks. And if you can resist a troll for three months you are virtully cured of the habit of responding to it. Much better for your health.
I managed that with Hillhunt.
Or you will sue me, you pathetic jerk? Someone who thinks that you can slander someone in public as against slandering them in private?
You state that the Jews are not a nation. That’s one example.
You state that the Jews are not a nation. That’s one example.
Something that, as my link proved, some Jews also believe. And, as I pointed out, one of the core arguments of the anti-Semites is that the Jews are a nation and that is why they cannot be trusted (the argument being that their loyalties are to the Jewish nation and not to their host nation). I don’t buy this offensive argument one iota. They may be ‘a nation’ in the ancient sense, but they aren’t in the modern sense (which is possibly corrupted by supposed synonyms – nation, country, land etc). You and I are clearly using different defintions of ‘nation’ and both of which are entirely valid. I referred to the fact that Jews are not a nation by the following defintion:
na·tion
n.
1
a) A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country.
You used the following definition:
A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language; a nationality: “Historically the Ukrainians are an ancient nation which has persisted and survived through terrible calamity” (Robert Conquest).
(Both definitions from here:
http://www.answers.com/nation&r=67)
I suggest that we are both right regarding our own interpretations of a ‘nation’.
Your term is a back-formation from the British usage of the term ‘nationaity’, which other Anglophone countries call ‘citizenship’ (and analogous terms in Francophone and German-speaking countries). This is a recent phenomenon, paralleling the development of the 18-century concept of nation-state but subsequent in time. The idea that a nation has to be organised under a single government completely ignores nations that have been conquered and absorbed by other countries, thus it attempts to view them outside any historical context, thus is nonsensical (cf. e.g. my example of the Poles, whose country was divvied up between Prussia, Russia and Austria and ceased to exist as a political entity (‘single government’) for a period of time – to say that the Polish nation ceased to exist as a nation (and miraculously sprang into being when Poland was re-formed) is absurd. And indeed, cf. the Jews, whose country ceased to have a single government etc (copy and paste as relevant from the Polish example above).
Nonetheless, I welcome your apparent admission that it is OK to define the Jews as a nation.
Bryan,
Even Hillhunt ignores korova, he must realise that korova gives trolls a bad name 😆
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/6070949956016942558/#400766
Nearly Oxfordian,
Tut-tut, naughty! 😉
🙂
Another good example is the Welsh.
Some of my best friends are Welsh!
And the Welsh are a nation some even say an abomi-nation.
Yachi Da!
😆
Unless the right declares Wales to be a nation, in which case we deny it because we don’t want to be seen to have anything in common with fascists, unless they want the destruction of Israel, in which case “we are all Hezbollah!”, all of which becomes very confusing and can lead to extraordinarily long sentences, unless you have clear ideas of history and a reliable moral compass to start with. 😉
Err … Sue … some of my relations are Welsh. I really don’t appreciate your comment.
Err…I forgot. So are some of mine.
I didn’t think much of my comment either, it was just an excuse to use a smiley for the first and maybe the last time.
Don’t let me stop you using smileys (even animated ones), html and what have you.