Wonder what you make of the news that families of those killed in the 7/7 suicide bombings in London have launched a bitter attack on the BBC yesterday for paying expenses to a disgraced academic who believes the atrocities may have been an intelligence agency conspiracy? At one point, Nicholas Kollerstrom telephoned the father of one victim to discuss whether his daughter’s body had been planted at the site of the Tavistock Square bus bombing. What a monster. Kollerstrom, who denies the Holocaust, was carrying out research for his role in the BBC’s Conpiracy Files, a documentary about the theories surrounding the 2005 bombings on the London transport system that killed 52 innocent victims. His theory is that the Al Qaeda inspired bombers were in fact “non-violent by nature” – “innocent patsies”, who had been set up by elements within the Israeli, British and US security agencies. Isn’t it great to know how wisely the BBC uses the tax it takes from us?
HOLOCAUST DENIAL ON THE LICENSE FEE.
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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23493173-details/77+was+an+MI5+plot,+Holocaust+denier+claims+in+BBC+film/article.do
disgusting. this guy is mentally ill.
al beeb is in good company – the only other channel that promotes this loon is the state sponsored iranian press tv.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV
The only people this programme is going to appeal to are islamofascists who are convinced the Jews are behind 9/11 and that Zionists run the world. Why is Al-BBC constantly finding ways to whitewash islam and the crimes committed in it’s name ? As I asked on a previous post whilst discussing this same article – will Al-Beeb (in the interests of balance) do a “conspiracy file” on Bat Ye’or’s “Eurabia” which exposes the plan to merge Europe into muslim Arabia?
Al-BBC …..advancing the jihad – one programme at a time.
BBC=SCUM
Maybe the KGBBC hasn’t noticed the ISLAMOFASCIST trend throughout the world. Until their offices are Jihaded by Muhammad Aziz et al they will continue to pretend not to believe what they know is true.
Libtards refuse to believe that there are evil people on this planet. Though they freely acknowledge CONSERVATIVES to be evil and CORPORATIONS as well. They twist themselves into pretzels a la Neville Chamberlain. If only we reached out and hugged Herr Muzlim…….
And despite the BBC’s scandalous insult to the victims of 7/7, it does not provide a fair representation of the Israeli Ambassador’s complaint about anti-semitism in the UK, including in higher education.
The BBC under-represents the Ambassador’s position, instead emphasising Minister Rammell’s denials, before the Israeli Ambassador’s criticisms are outlined.
The BBC does not mention the elephant in the room in the form of the Hamas-supporting Islamic presence in many UK universities.
“Minister denies anti-Israeli claim”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7445919.stm
To get a fairer representation of the issues, suggest see the ‘Telegraph’ article:
“Israel’s ambassador says Britain has become a hotbed of radical anti-Israeli feeling.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/2100428/Israel%27s-ambassador-says-Britain-has-become-a-hotbed-of-radical-anti-Israeli-feeling.html
Just when you think that the BBC has finally hit the bottom of the barrel they manage to scrape away and find yet another sub-level.
There may be more to this story. Useful Idiot blog has reported the deliberate suppression by BBC moderators of a thread discussing anti Israel bias.
http://theymadeitup.squarespace.com/the-latest-news-and-discussion/2008/6/10/bbc-bias-stops-debate-about-britain-being-anti-israel.html
The Magna Mater Melanie has picked up the story here
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/764681/paradise-lost.thtml
And it refers to the opinion piece in the Telegraph here.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/06/10/do1002.xml
Why is the BBC censoring debate on this issue? Why are anti-Israel comments routinely permitted to stand whilst pro Israel comments are deleted.
Answers on a postcard, please …
The BBC interviewed Kollerstrom for the documentary before the Holocaust Denial story broke, which I know for a fact as I was one of the bloggers who covered the story at the outset and before UCL ditched him.
I’d like to twist that guy’s head right off. Judging by the wrinkles on his neck it looks like someone else has tried to do the same. What an ugly bastard!
Is this the same Nicholas Kollerstrom who dissed British scientists over the discovery of Neptune? He claimed they overstated their part in the planet’s discovery, I seem to remember. Any excuse to put the boot in to his fellow citizens.
By the way, how come everywhere I look he is described as “respected scientist”. Respected by whom?
Yep, same guy – and most of the ‘respected scientist’ comments are either ancient history or the work of other Holocaust deniers and conspiraloons.
It might be OK. The BBC could do a programme about Paliwood and conspiracies around Mohammed al-Dura, etc.
< chirp >That’s the sound of crickets, you hear < /chirp > 8)
Today. Another of Jeremy Bowen’s reports. The subject; rumoured talks between Hamas and Fatah.
Bowen tells us their split was advantageous to Israel.
This clearly depicts Israel as the aggressor whose desire is to crush and defeat the Palestinians. This inverts reality. But this is the way he sees it and it explains his continual misrepresentation of Israel and his outrageous bias, and is the reason that he is unfit for purpose.
He implies that Israel would rather the “Palestinians” continued to fight amongst themselves and undermine their goal of achieving their state. He thinks Israel would prefer to continue to have a barrage of rockets fired onto its citizens by Hamas than allow the “Palestinians” to have what they “want.”
He proceeds, listing the usual accusations against Israel, with a sorrowful air. The settlements and so on, and mentions rocket attacks from Gaza, Israeli retaliation, and adds poignantly – “yesterday a nine year old girl, – Palestinian girl – (just in case we might think it was an Israeli) was killed. ”
————————-
I really wish I hadn’t seen the ill-informed rants from commenters on such things as the BBC pm blog.
(From NotaSheep | Homepage | 10.06.08 – 6:08 pm on the general thread)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/06/britain_is_a_hotbed_of_radical.shtml
All those ‘facts’ that people are so fond of setting out are obviously gleaned from a diet of pure Beeb.
Unity at 12:59 said:’In short, chalk this one off as yet another bout of faux right-wing outrage against the BBC that, as usual, turns out on closer examination to be entirely lacking in substance.’
Unity, you need to stop viewing criticism of the Beeb through your a left-wing right-wing prism. The BBC’s hatred for Israel and the US transcends such simplistic labels.
And from the tone of your article on your website you seem more annoyed with the Evening Standard then with the Kollestrom affair. Who cares whether or not this antisemite’s views were solicited before his Holocaust denial comments. The BBC should have cancelled the program or deleted his ‘contribution’ once his views became known.
unity – my concern re this story is
1 . his name is all over the internet as a conspiraloon
2. he clearly made his views re 7/7 known to al beeb
despite all this he is included in the bbc film. we simply should not give airtime to people who clearly are very very sick. he has harassed 7/7 survivors and even apparently is filmed by al beeb taking a bunch of flowers to the 7/7 bombers families.
this is just beyond parody. let kollerstrom carry on with his fantasy on his own or maybe let him have a hour long special with louis theroux but for fucks sake don’t pretend to take him seriously
Have any of you actually seen the documentary yet?
No, me neither – so what none of us knows is how it plays out and whether or not it sets out to debunk theories like those promoted by Kollerstrom or not.
If the documentary leaves Kollerstrom looking like an idiot, where does that that leave your comments?
Do they really need debunking? I have to say I wasn’t even aware that it was being suggested the July bombers were patsies and the bodies planted at the scene by MI5. All this does is give the theories publicity and for some, sadly, credibility.
I’m making a documentary based on the theory, some people have, that the BBC pays people to go on to blogs and defend them against criticism.
That’s right, I know some people find this nutty, but is there evidence of this theory.
Don’t any one DARE attack the documentary because
1. You haven’t seen it yet.
2. You don’t know whether I make the people who think the BBC pays “leftists” to defend it, look like idiots.
3. You are not qualified to speculate about future events and pass an opinion, as that’s the job of Dintelligensia who work for the BBC, and specifically BBC NEWS.
To make a programme investigating and debunking stupid conspiracy theories, you need to show a conspiracy theorist or two in action.
He wasn’t paid. He was featured and had his expenses paid such as an £8 train ticket.
I doubt he will come across well but you’ll have to wait for the programme to come out.
And when it does, it might do us all a service by showing up the conspiracy theorists and the theories for the poisonous, terrorist-exonerating, antisemitic lies they really are.
Lies need to be challenged and truth is important.
I am pleased that the doumentary is going to look at the matter of 7/7 conspiracy theories and those who peddle them – and who harass victims as part of their campaign to ‘spread truth’ – it is not truth they spread, but dangerous and pernicious falsehood.
To make a programme investigating and debunking stupid conspiracy theories, you need to show a conspiracy theorist or two in action.
Hey Rachel, you may or may not be right, but who says the aim is to “debunk?”
I’d like to see the name of the producer/s and what else they’ve produced.
Based on past experience, I see no reason to give the BBC the benefit of any doubt.
Fran | 11.06.08 – 12:15 am
“Why is the BBC censoring debate on this issue”
Probably due to a combination of being both anti-Semitic and deeply insecure at the same time.
However it’s good that blogs like the Useful Idiot regularly do screen captures so that they can show them up for the sly, sneaky swines that they really are.
The programme is part of ‘the Conspiracy Files’ which have debunked 9/11, and other tragic events which have debunked conspiracy theories and shown the harassing unpleasnt behaviour of conspiracy theorists.
So it’s a fair bet that this will be the case with this documentary made by ex Panorama producer Tristan Quinn.
I’ll be interested to watch it when it comes out. These 7/7 lies need to be held up to the light and shown up for what they are; they are not harmless nonsense and those who spread them have a nasty agenda
Farken hell, have a look at some of the loons that post on this BBC forum;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pm/2008/06/britain_is_a_hotbed_of_radical.shtml
Some of the stuff…actually, most of the stuff on that forum is absolutely shocking. Whats worse is the continued parroting of lies and disinformation that itself is parroted by Al beeb!
Mailman
Innocent non-violent Al-Qaeda set-up by the Israelis? Where do the conspiracy nuts get these crazy ideas?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/spooks/series5_ep7.shtml
Mailman,
If that the stuff said on that BBC blog was said on here the beeboids would be rushing to say we were bigoted nutters that almost no-one is interested in.
You get this on their beloved BBC though and they all go silent, their hypocritical selectivity laid waste, one law for the BBC and one for everyone else.
the trouble is that no matter what the white mainstream view of this doucmentary is, the reality will be that some muslim groups will be feeding off this and agreeing with every word he says, he when/if he is shown up to be a loon.
don’t give him any more publicity is my view. the fact that the bbc even shows him on their channel gives him the oxygen they all want
Mailman | 11.06.08 – 12:27 pm
Can no-one hear the voice of a woman ? Or a sheep?
Sue | 11.06.08 – 8:30 am
NotaSheep | Homepage | 10.06.08 – 6:08 pm
Oh well.
Antisemitism is part of the BBC/KKK Creed these days. I wonder if this disgraced academic Kollerstrom has been involved in boycotting Israeli (i.e. Jewish) academics too?
I think the BBC’s idea is that, if when they discuss conspiracy, they trail the most obvious loonies like this guy & David “the Queen is a giant alien reptile” Icke all over the place they can discredit those who say more serious stuff. They don’t, for example, ever discuss the evidence that the Bilderbergers use their power, or that Milosevic was murdered or that we were deliberately lied to to join the EU.
Remember that this is the same BBC that falsely reported large scale massacres of Palestinian civilians during the 2002 Battle of Jenin– even though they had no reporters on the ground and no other Western news agency corraborated the graphic descriptions given by BBC.
The journalists are also members of the same union that has voted in favor of a boycott against Israel but no similar sanction upon nations that have been documented to have committed egregious violations of human rights and international law– such as invading nations without causa belli— didn’t the UK do that?
Mike Rudin – who also did the doocumentary on 9/11 conspiracy theories – is going to do the 7/7 one. He discusses the controversy around Kollerstrom here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/06/the_bbc_controversy_and_conspi.html
He did a fair job on 9/11 so he’ll probably do the same here. I have mixed feelings on this but perhaps it is best to shine the spotlight on the Nazi. Rudin said the documentary also deals with his Holocaust denial.
Bryan | 11.06.08 – 11:59 pm |
Even if they do a good job debunking the 7/7 conspiracies, I fear it won’t do any more good than the 9/11 feature.
After all, as I have remarked before, whenever there is a HYS about trusting the BBC, the commenters fall into two categories: people complaining about the same things we do here, and people complaining that the BBC is hiding the truth about 9/11.
Religious people generally don’t get turned to atheism by watching a documentary. Not only that, but I would bet that most people who believe these conspiracies don’t watch documentaries on the BBC debunking them. Sadly, neither do most average people who don’t waste too much time thinking about these things. All they know after this stuff gets hyped is that there are “questions”.
If the BBC splashes the results all over the place and repeats a summation of the findings as often as an Obama speech, then maybe the truth will sink in a few thick skulls. Otherwise, all that’s left is the impression that there is still “a debate”.
I don’t think that airing these whacko ideas and then hoping they shrivel up in the spotlight of open debate is the way forward.
And I think it’s outside the BBC’s remit to tour the world looking for potty ideas to debunk.
The BBC should concentrate on straightforward factual impartial reporting of actual events. And docos based on real facts from the real world.
Dunno, I just have this idea that if they shine a light on him he’ll shrivel up and find a rock to crawl under. But I guess it’s more likely that, like the reprehensible David Irving, he’ll thrive on the publicity, negative or not.
I would bet that most people who believe these conspiracies don’t watch documentaries on the BBC debunking them.
Actually the 9/11 documentary got a huge response from the conspiracy theorists:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/part_of_the_conspiracy.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/03/part_of_the_conspiracy_2.html
Over 1200 comments, perhaps 90% from truthers, after Richard Porter’s defence of the documentary.
But I guess a good part of the fury was because the truthers thought the BBC was “on message” here. When it turned out that the BBC wouldn’t be a vehicle for the propagation of conspiracy theories, they felt utterly betrayed.
It’s not going to convince the wingnut conspiraloons, no. But it will educate the well-meaning, curious, persuadable and dabblers. It cannot be good that 1 in 4 UK Muslims currently believes such stuff – how is that good for trust and how much does that damage our intelligence and security position if people do not even accept the reality of religious terrorism because they are in denial about it and blaming Mossad/M15 for terror attacks?
Lies should not be left to spread like a virus, unchallenged. There are people actively pushing this propoganda. It is not hard for an investigative journalism team to refute the rubbish that is being so diligently promoted every day in DVDs, websites, meetings, googlevideo, youtube every day.
I am pleased that a documentary team will do so; I want a 17 year old sent an email saying ‘watch this’ and a link to a video saying 7/7 was a lie and a stunt by Mossad to be able to say – hang on, I know that’s rubbish.
Not…oh, maybe there is something in this.
The comments from conspiraloons on that blog are hilarious. These really are some of the saddest, most irrational people around. I see some of the worst of them every year on 9/11 at Ground Zero in New York, they take the opportunity to throw a chimps tea party and throw bananas around as the families of the victims file into the site for the memorial service. I usually get into a confrontation with them, can’t help it.
Last year I casually asked them just how likely they think would be that not one person involved in the “conspiracy” has since come forward and spilled the beans out of conscience. Furthermore, how many people would have been approached to take part in the mass murder of thousands of their fellow citizens, and turned the offer down in digust? Surely at least one of them would have come forward by now.
Their answer: “They’re too scared because they know the government would kill them if they did”. Yeah right. All throughout history people have risked their lives to expose corruption and crime under threat of murder and intimidation. Is it really likely that not ONE person would come forward in this case? I asked them this, and got called a tool of the government and yelled at for “watching Fox News, man”.
Then there’s the question of how these super-evil conspiracy operatives managed to plant enough explosives to demolish the towers, when such a task would have involved a huge amount of drilling into support columns – a major operation creating lots of noise and dust and upheaval in office towers populated by 25,000 workers each, every day. Not one person to say “Yeah, I saw them drilling. Wore sunglasses indoors, they did!”
What isn’t surprising is how many of these annual Ground Zero conspiraloons have long hair, piercings, scruffy beard growth, X-Files t-shirts and neck acne.
rachel: considering the extent of the delusional, irrational, mystic bullshit that so many Muslims believe, I hardly think that a TV documentary presenting objective reasoning is going to change their minds any.
The whole point of conspiraloons, Muslim and non-Muslim, is that they are people who are impervious to reason. In fact these are people who perceive all presentation of reason as an attempt to pull the wool over their eyes. The more watertight your reasoning, the more likely they are to call you a tool of the government.
The phrase “that’s what they WANT you to think” is what drives them. It overrides any consideration of facts or logic. There is no doubt whatsoever that they are mentally ill. These same people would have been drowning people as witches in medieval times.
Jason; oh yeah, I know. They have been calling me a tool of the Govt for 3 years now.
And much worse besides.
Which is why I rejoice in their being shown up for the paranoid liars they are
Jason at 9:22: Well said!
@Rachel at 9:12. You said:’Lies should not be left to spread like a virus, unchallenged. There are people actively pushing this propoganda.’
I don’t think that the BBC, by actively using one of those very people who is involved in spreading conspiracy theories or even instigating (some of) them, will assist in the fight against…those very people.
After all, isn’t that what the BBC should be doing as Jack Hughes @5:18 said? The BBC should stick to reporting the truth and not giving a platform to the seriously deluded.
In my post I referred to the conspiracy theorists as ‘seriously deluded’. Mistake. Some of them actually know exactly what they are doing and the outcomes they wish to achieve.
Bryan | 12.06.08 – 6:55 am |
Actually the 9/11 documentary got a huge response from the conspiracy theorists:
Over 1200 comments, perhaps 90% from truthers, after Richard Porter’s defence of the documentary.
It’s many of the same people who usually write in about this stuff, and it only takes about 30 of them encouraging each other and making multiple comments attacking the odd sane person to make up several hundred comments on there own. This looks to me like the same amount of comments on the HYS items I was talking about. Still, it’s nice to see the BBC got a rise out of them. I don’t know how many average citizens learned anything important, though.
But I guess a good part of the fury was because the truthers thought the BBC was “on message” here. When it turned out that the BBC wouldn’t be a vehicle for the propagation of conspiracy theories, they felt utterly betrayed.
As I said, none of the truthers woke up, not a single scale lifted from the eyes. So I guess all one can do is hope some of it sank into the brains of people who might otherwise be influenced by conspiracy theories. In fact, this 7/7 one should be compulsory viewing for all BBC staff. Some of them obviously never watched the 9/11 documentary, so they should at least see this new one.
“It’s many of the same people who usually write in about this stuff, and it only takes about 30 of them encouraging each other and making multiple comments attacking the odd sane person to make up several hundred comments on there own.”
And who says irony is dead, eh?
It’s many of the same people who usually write in about this stuff, and it only takes about 30 of them encouraging each other and making multiple comments attacking the odd sane person to make up several hundred comments on there own.
David Preiser (USA) | 12.06.08 – 3:46 pm
Yes, I take your point there. As I recall, a fair number of the 1200 were people writing in again and again.
And comments still came trickling in as late as a year after the fact.
“The comments from conspiraloons on that blog are hilarious. These really are some of the saddest, most irrational people around.”
And who says irony is dead, eh?
The only people more foolish than those who believe all the conspiracy theories are those who believe that the world really always runs the way we are told.