What do you think? Ralph Peters says:
“a BBC broadcast yesterday portrayed tiny, poorhouse Georgia as a propaganda powerhouse and Russia as an information victim – an illustration of the Russian propaganda machine’s effectiveness”.
It fits with what I’ve observed of BBC coverage. This morning they reported in an article online that “officials say” the Russians were pulling out of Gori. Since that time I’ve heard much contrary information from other sources. And the sources of the Beeb, who were they? Well, they didn’t say so at the time, but later on they say “Earlier, Russia said it had began handing back the town of Gori to Georgian police but insisted its troops would stay in the area.”
So much of the information the BBC have been giving out had to have come from the Russian authorities. They have an information machine for the purpose. What have the Georgians got? An English-speaking President, and that’s about all.
So trust first (when it comes to Russia). Verify later- apparently to the BBC.
I realise there have been many people who think the reverse, but I am also mindful that Russia really has worked out an information strategy par excellence, especially on the web. I found this a very interesting insight from a rather offbeat source.
I wonder how many beeboids were or are still members of the Communist party?
Half the cabinet are.
Mr Thomas — That’s a great post, IMO, and correct: Trust the comrades first, verify later (maybe, if it suits us).
As for what the BBC won’t cover with any prominence or precision, well the AFP (of all places — what better way to put the BBC’s ‘coverage’ into context) at least tried earlier today to report the outrage among Russia’s neighbors at EU leadership:
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1218635264.62
…Merkel’s behavior in April (Nato veto) tags her as the new Chamberlain. French collusion at the time is all too familiar, as is the recent poodle-like rush to Moscow by Sarkozy. And then there’s the loud silence from the vacuum where the British government used to be. Plainly all Bush’s fault again.
Those who believe they can don the Nato shield like a fashion accessory don’t quite get it, or the consequences.
You can be sure that the party faithful at the BBC are among them.
The BBC, the enemy of free people everywhere.
Communists, ex or otherwise, are not a “source”. This annoys me in the same way I get annoyed when I read that Cuba has “the best health care” or “literacy rates”. The source? The Cuban government itself.
I believe the only honest thing ever to come out of Russia was the Khrushchev Report.
By the way, Ralph Peters has my thumbs up, he rarely pulls punches in his columns and I buy the New York Post just for them. His opener today was a classic:
“THE Russians are alcohol-sodden bar barians, but now and then they vomit up a genius.”
The BBC is most certainly not a dupe,the BBC does what it does with its eyes wide open and with great enthusiasm.
Unpopular view here I know but the BBC in common with all the British media and many commentators here seem to believe we have a role to play in the Georgia situation. We are simply bystanders with no power at all to alter events. Nato is also powerless as is the EU. Russia has called our bluff. Georgia is far away but Serbia is much closer and I see a clear warning from Russia. Attack Serbia again and Russia will not stand aside. Our foreign policy is based on emotional liberal interventionism dressed up in blatherings about democracy. We would be well advised to act out of self interest and that means treating Russia warily. Anyway to condemn Russia for behaving as we have in Iraq is hypocritical to say the least. A resurgent Russia is a reality.
The only plus factor in the situation is it has exposed the EU as incapable of any cohesive action about anything and NATO as the outdated military alliance it really is.
I find the really irritating aspect of BBC reporting to be their current inability to distinguish fact from opinion.
They are running full-bore on their confused agenda but the “useful-idiot” crypto-Marxist camp followers have not yet sorted which side will wear the white hats after the filter of history has been applied.
As “a man on a Clapham omnibus” I do not understand why the BBC should be trying to convince me of anything, in this matter.
By the way, Ralph Peters has my thumbs up, he rarely pulls punches in his columns and I buy the New York Post just for them. His opener today was a classic:
“THE Russians are alcohol-sodden bar barians, but now and then they vomit up a genius.”
I saw him give a talk at an American Enterprise Institute meeting that C-Span aired yesterday. He said the exact same thing in the talk. He also ‘accidentally’ referred to the Russians as the Soviets, then corrected himself and said that the Soviets were more humane.
I like the cut of his jib. I’d buy his books if I read non-fiction, but I don’t.
“The only plus factor in the situation is it has exposed the EU as incapable of any cohesive action about anything and NATO as the outdated military alliance it really is.”
I fail to see how that is a plus.If the Russians wanted to run a couple of division into Brussels and Strasbourg,providing they do at a weekend there is nothing to stop them.
“I see a clear warning from Russia. Attack Serbia again and Russia will not stand aside. Our foreign policy is based on emotional liberal interventionism”
You need to open your eyes. The US got what it wanted in Serbia, and has a servile leadership there, which wants reforms that would never have happened prior to the NATO attacks.
The “liberal interventionism” was a smokescreen, and a way to justify bombing Serbia. The NATO countries knew the bombing of Serbia was based on a lie.
Europe fears Russia, and some countries welcome US involvement, which antagonises Russia and creates a vicious or virtuous circle, depending on your politics.
Follow the munney, or in this case, follow the missiles.
US and Poland sign defence deal
Poland has signed a preliminary deal with the US on plans to host part of its new missile defence shield.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7561926.stm
A coincidence?
I think not.
This Georgia thing is just a few chips in the big poker game.
I find it bizarre anyone would construe Beeb coverage as in any way pro Russia.
They seem to be fairly solid with the neocon plucky Georgia meme.
Polands and latvias foreign ministers went to Georgia and were highly critical of the French led peace(sellout)plan, from the UK? shameful silence! Merkel couldnt have done a better job of sabotage if she were still head of the ‘agititaion and propaganda’ youth wing of a stasi run GDR(is she still on the FSB payroll?).
The way the Krauts sabotaged NATO command and the way that Sarkozy exploited the tragedy to promote a Euroforce is grubby to say the least!
There are and have always been some nations that use NATO to save cash on defence while they sneer and obstruct that same organisation that covers them.
Merkel is in Moscow now taking orders from Putin and possibly asking for a few cent dicount on German energy imports for all the help she has given the Russians!
On an earlier thread the question ‘are you ashamed to be British?’ I am very ashamed of the way the Labour regime prefers to wage a propagaganda war on its ideological enemies, the Tories, using all its subject media instead of doing the right thing and using British world status to assist the victims of Russian terror!
Just a note,
South ossetian FSB backed bandits are looting and killing their way around Georgia now and the FSB led Abkhazian millitias are doing the same!
In a few weeks the west is going to face upto the fact that it sat back(thanks to Sarkozy&Merkel) while thousands were murdered!
“I find the really irritating aspect of BBC reporting to be their current inability to distinguish fact from opinion”
Excuse me? I have been saying since 1982 (first Lebanon war) that the BBC simply doesn’t understand (or deliberately ignores) the difference between reporting and editorial opinion. Their ‘reporting’ on Israel has been nothing but an antisemitic propaganda war for decades.
…a vicious or virtuous circle, depending on your politics.
Right. When cornered, reach into the grab bag for a phrase or two from the multiculti/po-mo/POV/relativist/personal lifestyle preference/it’s all opinion anyway/can’t-make-an-omlette-without- breaking-a-few-eggs/badly-dated-but-still-approved phrase book for leftists in extremis.
And then assume a pained expression and proselytize: Another couple of thousand civilians slaughtered but you made us do it. Can’t we all get along? Got to be cruel to be kind. It’s obvious we’re just protecting ourselves. Ancient traditions and lessons…Alexander Nevsky, Borodino, Stalingrad…more lessons…Chechnya, whoops…er, Kosovo?…retreats from Moscow…Kitchen sink, blunderbuss and Uncle Tom Cobbley…
Yawn… Hell, even Goebbels wouldn’t go there, but it’s your natural habitat.
You’ve already boasted of your propaganda skills. Who do you think you’ve convinced, comrade?
They seem to be fairly solid with the neocon plucky Georgia meme.
St Bernard | 15.08.08 – 3:49 am | #
I assume by “neo-con” you mean JEW. That’s standard code, isn’t it?
Though I have found that conservatives en masse, do tend to root for anyone up against a former commie/KGB state.
So thank you for pointing out how conservatives are the opposite of leftists/trots/neo-commies and various hues of pinko.
They of course always cheer for Josef Goliath when he’s up against David.
The BBC is not quite sure yet how to angle itself. Its natural reaction from its pro-communist stance is to support the ex-communist hardman and his army BUT the BBC now realises that Putin, Medvedev et al are nationalists above all – and that is ‘bad’, so I reckon that the BBC will attempt to use the Georgia episode as a way to get at the US and Bush just before he leaves office.
Just listened to half an hour from ‘Russia Today’ dressed up as the ‘Jeremy Vine Show’. The question posed, “Is Russia really at fault over the situation in Georgia”?
We had Michael Binyon, who wrote a column in the Times yesterday, and a very softly spoken Russian gentleman, resident of the U.K. who absolutely loves all Georgians and who’s ambition is to visit Georgia and enjoy a meal in one of their fabulous restaurants.
There was much critisism of the Georgian president’s decision to launch the invasion and much critisism of the support give to the democratically elected government of Georgia by the U.S.
Every single caller put on the air by the show supported this. There wasn’t a single opposing view. We had the usual comments about our conduct in Iraq and Afghanistan. About the whole thing being about oil. Yawn. They even quoted someone comparing it to our invasion of Northern Ireland, and about how poor old Russia has been provoked into this action by the U.S. insisting on Georgia being a member of NATO. There wasn’t a single disenting view.
No one mentioned how Putin is turning Russia, once more, into a dangerous super power that will threaten our well being over the next generation.
How he has destroyed the independent media that grew after the collapse of the Soviet Union. How investigative journalists such as Politkovskaya have been butchered. How agents of the regime came to London to poison a British citizen. How BP is harrassed by the state. How Russian bombers are one more patrolling the North Sea within sight of our coastline. To name but a few.
The BBC have largely ignored developments in Russia over the last few years. Why don’t they have correspondents like Frei and Webb appearing on our screens nightly giving very critical analysis of all thing Russian as they do about all things American. Well they simply wouldn’t would they. They’d probably end up being shot!
It was only a matter of time before the BBC’s coverage of this crisis became yet another excuse to blame US foreign policy.
Great timing for the Bond films though, which have rewound back to the beginning when Russia was THE enemy!
They can remake FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE and DR.NO — and stick to the original plots!
El sueño de la razon produce monstruos
Treat Russia as a neighbor an you will get one, treat it as an enemy and you’l get the same.
Peter 1.37
Brussels is rather a long way from the Russian frontier but I take your point. Perhaps we in this country should consider whether it is in our interest to commit our army to a European force. Our army’s prime function is to defend this land nowhere else. Russia has committed the unforgivable crime of acting as a nation state and purely in her own interest. This will never do. We should and could learn from this.
John Bull
Serbia may appear to be a quiescent pro EU state at the moment. But things change and the Kosovo situation is unresolved. If there is a change then Nato may well find a rearmed and Russian backed Serbia very different. We have no spare soldiers so where will Nato find seasoned troops?. In Brussels perhaps. It could always conscript the eurocrats.
Bully-boy
“John Bull:
“You need to open your eyes. The US got what it wanted in Serbia, and has a servile leadership there, which wants reforms that would never have happened prior to the NATO attacks.”
We all got what we wanted a free, democratic state. OK maybe you don’t want a democratic state but most people in this world do. Serbia was not invaded by NATO, it got free, democratic elections, and electorate, which had a choice of a hard-line nationalist party in their recent elections which they freely rejected…it is called democracy, something you never seem able to grasp.
“The “liberal interventionism” was a smokescreen, and a way to justify bombing Serbia.”
Serbia was attacked to stop genocide and ethnic cleansing in Kosovo
“The NATO countries knew the bombing of Serbia was based on a lie.”
You keep saying things like that but never prove it…you are caught repeatedly lying about a lot though so I wouldn’t trust what you say without proof.
“Europe fears Russia, and some countries welcome US involvement, which antagonises Russia and creates a vicious or virtuous circle, depending on your politics.”
What? Europe fears Russia, fair enough because of Georgia’s illegal invasion. You seem to be saying that countries that want to join a democratic and rich West antagonize Russia and should expect attack (see your other posts to see about your views on Russian violence), so you blame the victims of Russian aggression….very poor thinking Bully. I think we can see what your political views are most clearly.
remember about five years back it was in the papers that russian special forces were in this country (or what used to be this country, Scotland) conducting training drills. Our military guys announced we now work together with Russia “at the highest levels.”
Our intelligence people call the FSB “colleagues.”
Thats the reality of 21st C. socialist Britain.
Treat Russia as a neighbor an you will get one, treat it as an enemy and you’l get the same.
vadimanad | 15.08.08 – 10:08 pm | #
Has your head been up your arse for the past 8 years?
Hello Troll,
“You keep saying things like that but never prove it…you are caught repeatedly lying about a lot though so I wouldn’t trust what you say without proof.Ivan3 | 16.08.08 – 12:56 am”
Operation Horseshoe turned out to be a NATO lie, as did Clinton’s lies about massacres at the stadium etc.
Go and Google it before you post here, you nutter.
to Jack Bauer: that was low life response.Think before you post obscenity.
Re: my head may be for last few years, but your been there entire life.