I read with dismay this report on the BBC this evening concerning the failure of the government to deal with child abuse insofar as it merely parrots the established cliche that “lessons must be learnt” – except they haven’t. It gets worse by throwing in a dollop of class warfare alleging that poor “families”get poor services. Free school meals are even given an airing in this context although why they would stop some of the horrendous child abuse that has gone on under the noses of the many government agencies, rather like the peace of god, passes all understanding.
“LESSONS HAVE NOT BEEN LEARNT”
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The big lesson for everyone is that bureaucratic procedures with or without extra resources cannot substitute for good judgment by key individuals.
Jack,
Alas good judgement and self driven initiative have no presence in Mr Broon’s paradise on earth.
Stop giving thick inbred chav scum money to breed. Liebour only do it so long as this vermin vote for them every few years.
If you can’t afford kids, don’t breed.
Martin – the more they can encourage them to breed, the more votes for Liebour when they grow up. But how will they get them out of bed to vote? Answer: give them free internet and computers so they can vote online. How can they make them bother to vote on the computer? Answer – everyone who votes will get entered for a prize draw! I bet it happens this way.
Pterodactyl: Liebour introduced postal voting so these idle twats didn’t have to get their fat arses down to a polling booth. We’ve seen postal voting totally corrupted by local Labour parties.
60 visits by social workers to baby P is hardly poor service – what’s poor is the failure of those workers to see and act on the evidence all around them, or even to ask why in such a benefits-rich household babies were living (and dying) in physical squalor.
Sozman | 19.11.08 – 11:25 pm |
You’re quite right 60 visits is very good service. But what really fails children is dysfunctional families. In a functional family with a mam and dad and grandmothers and grandfathers, uncles and aunties – this abuse would have been spotted way before it was too late. New Labour stopped supporting the family in its “all lifestyles are equal” and with it the best support a child could ever have.
Martin:
“Stop giving thick inbred chav scum money to breed. Liebour only do it so long as this vermin vote for them every few years.
If you can’t afford kids, don’t breed.”
This is the kind of fascist bullshit you’d expect from the left, and you don’t do anyone any favours by writing such bilious crap.
The middle classes can child abuse with the best of them. Kate McCann deserved to be imprisoned for what she did. But the media defended her because she was a middle class liberal. Who’d have stopped her from having kids?
There are plenty of “chav scum” as you put it, who DON’T abuse their kids and do right by them.
What you are saying is tantamount to ethnic cleansing.
“Martin:
Pterodactyl: Liebour introduced postal voting so these idle twats didn’t have to get their fat arses down to a polling booth.”
That’s the point of a democracy! You don’t have to vote if you don’t want to.
I don’t vote and never would. All the parties are the same in my estimation. Worthless.
So in your eyes is that some kind of a criminal offence?
the tone of that bbc report is notable by the sheer absense of any sort of MORALITY
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7737174.stm
re-read it again to see what i mean.
its nothing but a load of bollocks about doing more public service box ticking, rather than going after the root causes.
and the root cause is a welfare state that thinks its ok for entire families to waste away on benefits , while we import half a million immigrant workers per year.
More eugenics than ethnic cleansing, surely?
And, inter alia once one of the favourite notions of the Left – including many founding members of the Labour Party.
And, inter alia once one of the favourite notions of the Left – including many founding members of the Labour Party.
GCooper | 20.11.08 – 12:33 am |
How true.
“What you are saying is tantamount to ethnic cleansing.
Kill the Beeb | 20.11.08 – 12:29 am ”
i wouldnt word it the way martin does – but he does have a point. the welfare state has made the relationship between income and the amount of children you have hopelessly out of whack. and thus you end up in an endless spiral of welfare dependency – in short, the creation of an “underclass”.
one of the few Labour MPs who have recognised this is Frank Field. and when he tried to do something about it, he got ditched by the New Labour drones.
So are chavs an “ethnic minority” now?
The underclass doesn’t exclusively create child abusers. Nor does the welfare state. What creates child abusers are other CHILD abusers. If anyone should be stopped from having kids it’s the criminal class, not the underclass.
Attacking the “disgusting” proles and targeting them as ground zero for child abuse, as Martin does in his posting is exactly the type of mindset I’d expect from the left. However, they at least don’t vocalise their contempt publicly.
There are hundreds of child abuse cases out there, many as sickening as this recent case. Most of them don’t make the papers. Incidentally, this case was brough before the courts last year, but we never heard a peep out of the papers then. Why not?
It would seem the abusers the press are most likely to jump on are the “chav scum” cases. While wilfully negligent fuckers like the McCanns walk away scott free.
Also, all you lefty fucking hypocrytes that moan on here stop paying your goddam TV license if you hate the BBC so much!!!
What also sickens me is that the mother of the psycho that murdered her child is being proffered as some kind of patron saint of forewarning.
Typical of the MSM that they don’t dig deeper to find out what abuse SHE dished out to her own sick daughter.
When it comes to the personification of evil why do all the Darwinists in the media suddenly believe in creationism?
Child abuse is not created by chavs, they merely ignore their children which is not, in itself abuse.
Middle class on the other hand have the award on this to an extent. Just because people aren’t talking about it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, more often than not it is happening right under our ignorant noses.
Who’s all for stereotyping the chavs of this country, we may not like them and they may get on many of our nerves but it doesn’t immidiately associate them with illegal acts.
What has Kate McCann done to upset you, kill the beeb.
despite BILLIONS being spent , social services couldnt figure out that Peter Connelly was being beaten to a pulp..
have a look at this photo.. new one thats being carried on the mail, standard and elsewhere
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DxztunIqm_w/SSS6FlV2BiI/AAAAAAAAA7g/K6GG-f4psJQ/s1600-h/article-1087633-02886669000005DC-718_468x897.jpg
While wilfully negligent fuckers like the McCanns walk away scott free.
Kill the Beeb | 20.11.08 – 12:55 am |
i would agree.
the contrast is staggering. the media really tried to brush under the carpet how much the public hated the mccanns back then.
i was on a temporary forum elsewhere and it was running into hundreds of postings per day about them.. the anger was incredible.
and yet – the MSM portrayed something completely different.
by the way – the discussion of these cases is no longer controlled by the MSM.
have you noticed that?
i was on a mccann bulletin board and i got every twist and turn in that case – to such an extent that sky news and the bbc seemed to be anitquated.
and boy does that scare the shit out of them.
no wonder you have murmurings of “controlling the blogosphere” from the EU and Hazel Blears.
But leaving a child alone is not the same as what happened to baby p.
If we define child abuse that way then martin has a case that chavs are child abusers.
Anyway the real meaning of chav is criminal, not working class
When it comes to the personification of evil why do all the Darwinists in the media suddenly believe in creationism?
Kill the Beeb | 20.11.08 – 1:01 am
one of the papers – the evening standard -mentioned that the grandmother was also involved in the abuse. last week as far i can recall. read it on the train from london.
only appeared the once – and boy did that tune change when she started to sing like a canary.
for a large fee, no doubt.
Anyway the real meaning of chav is criminal, not working class
adam | 20.11.08 – 1:37 am
i would agree – i have many many relatives who are working class. and for them it is a badge of dishonour to be on welfare. they are poor, work shitty jobs, but their honour is from their work. that they are WORKING makes all the difference to them.
they aren’t chavs – chavs are criminal scum, who see nothing wrong with leeching from the state.
which labour is happy to go along with. (for votes…)
Even in communist countries they dont have a welfare state. How did we end up with one.
true – even in communist states you had “work”. it was an enormous taboo to be work shy.
I think part of the trouble is that the social services attracts, dare I say it, more than its fair share of incompetent assholes.
Here in New York whenever a kid gets beaten to death by the scum parents it’s the same story. Multiple warnings to the social services from neighbors etc, multiple visits in which the social worker failed to notice or report highly worrying things, ignoring suspicious injuries on kid even when there’s a history of domestic violence, failure to do anything until it’s too late…and so on.
Then when the shit hits the fan we have the social workers claiming they’re overworked, that they’re “scapegoats” and that they wouldn’t have been so negligent if the city had thrown more money at them earlier.
Social work attracts, to be frank, a bunch of self-righteous lefties who get into the “caring” profession because it makes them feel morally superior to all of those greedy bastards who take jobs with evil, profit-seeking capitalist companies.
But once they get the jobs, the actual practice of real-world “caring” is too much for them and they immediately develop bad attitudes. Hey, getting the job was enough wasn’t it? Doesn’t that prove that I “care”?
Don’t get me wrong, I know there are good social workers out there. But I’ve known a few in my time. All of them of the leftist mindset. Hell, you’ve seen what happens when the leftist mindset runs councils, states, countries etc. Well, that’s why the social services f*ck up so often.
Anyway the real meaning of chav is criminal, not working class
adam | 20.11.08 – 1:37 am
In Romany, the word chavi just means ‘boy’.
Hell, you’ve seen what happens when the leftist mindset runs councils, states, countries etc. Well, that’s why the social services f*ck up so often.
Haringey?
Kill the Beeb: Nonsense. I agree that the McCann’s should have been charged with child neglect. However, the problem is with the social underclass of fat women who drink stong lager and smoke 60 a day have an endless list of crack head boyfriends who come and go.
In my view, THE definitive book on the Welfare State is James Bartholomew’s “The Welfare State We’re In”.
His website, derived from and relating to his book is at:
http://www.thewelfarestatewerein.com/
On Tuesday 18th November he quotes a letter from Norman Dennis of the “Thinktank” Civitas.
The following is copied and pasted from his website:
November 18, 2008
Tuesday
“Pleasant family life” in the East End in Victorian times
The redoubtable Norman Dennis has a letter in the Daily Telegraph today that is worth many long but less well-informed articles. The most fascinating part of it is that he cites Charles Booth as his source. Booth is usually used by those who defend mass government welfare. But Dennis is one of the rare people who have actually read his work and finds that it is not all quite what we had been led to expect:
Sir – We seem to want to take comfort in the belief that child abuse was just as common in the past.
Child abuse to the death is many times more common where the mother was not married to the father and the present boyfriend is not the child’s father. Those household arrangements are many times more common than in the past.
We need not depend on theory. The great empirical study of slum life in Victorian England was Charles Booth’s survey of the East End of London. Of child abuse he wrote: “I can only speak as I have found: wholesome, pleasant family life … affectionate relationships of husbands and wives, mothers and sons, elders and children.”
From 13 volumes of observations, he concluded that this “agreeable picture” applied to 98.75 per cent of the population of East End slums – chosen by him as the worst in England. The “dangerous class” accounted for 1.25 per cent, and these few “fouled the reputation of the poor”.
Would that it were 1.25 per cent today. Yet Booth is often quoted as the authority on the social disorder and moral squalor that the welfare state removed.
Norman Dennis, Director of Community Studies, Civitas, London
SW1
———————————————————————-
The presenters of the BBC’s Today programme always warn listeners that they must disregard the views of Civitas by calling it “the RIGHT-leaning Thinktank, Civitas” All INFORMATION provided by Civitas must be rigorously ignored by all true socialists and treated as just the prattlings of right-wing extremists. Strangely, the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) the BBC’s favourite Thinktank is never called “the LEFT-leaning Thinktank, IPPR” or even “the WRONG-leaning Thinktank, the IPPR. (I wonder why?) I’ve just looked up the IPPR on http://www.ippr.org.uk: in “Upcoming Events” there is an item entitled “Capitalism in Crisis?” From the BBC’s point of view, this has a totally unbiased panel as follows:
Chair: Paul Mason, BBC Newsnight’s Economics Editor. (No kidding!!!)
Confirmed speakers: Vince Cable MP, Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesperson and former Chief Economist of Shell, (No kidding!!!)
Will Hutton, Executive Vice Chair, (No kidding!!!)
The Work Foundation, Dr Diane Coyle, Freelance economist and member of the Competition Commission, Nitin Parekh, Managing Director, Jesco Group and Anatole Kaletsky, Columnist and Associate Editor, The Times.)
To be sure, that’s a nicely balanced panel!
Jason, the same thing happens in every socialist country.
Gov. gets bored having to care for the poor and decides killing them off will result in less work.
“However, the problem is with the social underclass of fat women who drink stong lager and smoke 60 a day have an endless list of crack head boyfriends who come and go.”
As opposed to what? The middle classes? Who get through marriages like Elizabeth Taylor.
Ulrika Johnson has 3 different children by 3 different fathers. Where does she fit into your chav profile?
Admittedly none of her exes are crack addicts. But quite possibly they are all coke heads. Admittedly none of them are sponging off the welfare state. But I’m sure they are all sponging off their own peculiar ‘social state’. The priviledged classes are quite good at living out of their families pocket and contribute nothing to society. Such as Paris Hilton – upper class chav.
It’s all relative Martin. But your bluster and hatred for the ‘underclasses’ proves what an out of touch right wing fascist you really are.
adam:
What has Kate McCann done to upset you kill the beeb?
uhm…child neglect is a pretty good start adam. Why, is she a relative of yours? Or is it safe to assume you’re another one of these middle class tosspots that think she should be excused of her neglect by virtue of her class?
Kill the Beeb
Admittedly none of them are sponging off the welfare state.
Exactly– I’m not paying for their mistakes, so I don’t really care what they do.
The McCans had their child abducted and murdered. The other (anonymity-awarded) couple murdered their own child after torturing him for his entire short life. And you think these two cases are comparable, simply because you have a strange hatred of the “middle class”? Phew!
…someone open a window
There are better examples of middle class abuse than her.
Leaving a child alone is not comparable to baby P.
David | 20.11.08 – 10:35 am
the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) the BBC’s favourite Thinktank is never called “the LEFT-leaning Thinktank, IPPR”
oh but it is…..
BBC NEWS | UK | ‘Shift focus’ of security battle
13 Feb 2008 … In it, the left-leaning think tank urges the government to do more to protect people from other potential threats. Ian Kearns, IPPR deputy …
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7242198.stm…..
Google search of BBC news website for IPPR and exact phrase “left leaning think tank” produces 78 results.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&as_q=IPPR+&as_epq=left+leaning+think+tank&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=news.bbc.co.uk&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images
One reason there was less child abuse in the past was because the criminally minded were more likely to be in JAIL, unable to breed and torture kids.
Original Robin | 20.11.08 – 6:14 pm
I think if you really go into it, you’ll find the criminal fraternity have generally produced more offspring than the law-abiding.
Tom,
I wouldn`t think so, not in the past anyway. otherwise society would have disintegrated centuries ago.
The future though, that will be the case.
To Anonymous
Thanks for the link. Oops! you’re right and I’m wrong; I’ve just checked the link.
However, it seems to me that on the BBC’s Today programme (the programme that I specifically mentioned in my comments) they treat anything preached by the IPPR as if it were gospel. By comparison, my perception is that they imply that anything said by Civitas that doesn’t accord with their BBC-Groupthink, BBC-mindset, needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt. (Fortunately, cynic that I am, I know that large pinches of salt don’t CAUSE high blood pressure!)
Perhaps I’m just showing my own prejudices and biases, but at least I get those for free: I don’t see why I should have to PAY for someone else’s biases on pain of a hefty fine.
Coming back to David Vance’s post “LESSONS HAVE NOT BEEN LEARNT”, I can only say that in the Nineteenth Century, lessons really were learnt. Instead of state welfare (a welfare state) they had parish-based welfare with exactly the same problems then as now. Do read James Bartholomew’s seminal book “The Welfare State We’re In”. It’s a masterly dissection of both the social problems caused by the welfare state and their actual solutions. “Those who forget the lessons of history are destined to repeat them.” We’re repeating them now.
The original bass player in Bob Marley and the Wailers band, Aston “Family Man” Barrett, I read recently was quoted as boasting he had fathered 52 children. Like, as though we would be impressed. Perhaps if he boasted he supported fifty two children, that would be impressive. Aparently even at age 60 he cannot read or write. But it seems his knowledge of anatomy is top hole. No need for a sat-nav to find where to park it, if you get my drift. Say no more.
Back on topic, as long as children are a means to money the will be fathered without regard to the chidrens welfare. The problem with Harringey is not the comptence of social services, it is that such a large proportion of the population are shit. Which is why it is solid Labour of course. Now I wonder why that would be?
bob:
The McCans had their child abducted and murdered. The other (anonymity-awarded) couple murdered their own child after torturing him for his entire short life. And you think these two cases are comparable, simply because you have a strange hatred of the “middle class”? Phew!
You’re the one comparing them, moron. I was pointing out that child abuse isn’t just relevant to the ‘underclass’.
And I’d rather of had McCanns lucrative canonization by the media then anonymity.
The McCanns are a pair of amoral bastards, protected in force by an equally amoral press and amoral middle class idiots like you bob.
Kill the Beeb | 20.11.08 – 8:57 pm
The McCanns are a pair of amoral bastards, protected in force by an equally amoral press and amoral middle class idiots like you bob.
Can’t agree with you there.
In my book they did nothing wrong at all.
They checked on their kids every fifteen minutes, which is a lot more frequently than I check on mine while they’re sleeping.
Yes, they went to tapas bar…. but it had line of sight to their villa and wasn’t very far away. One could be further away from the kids bedrooms simply by being at the end of one’s own garden.
Statistically they were really very, very unlucky. The chances of stranger abduction taking place in a small resort in Portugal must be infinitesimal. Even in big cities, it’s incredibly rare.
I’ve read some of the mccann hate sites, and their critics very often seemed to be rather sad and warped human beings.
The liberal illuminati want to softer the punishment on criminals like this, so expect the abuse numbers to rise under the tolerants.