Here’s a thread to discuss BBC coverage of the Government’s pre-budget statement. Worth saying I think that it was Labour who introduced the pre-budget statement. This junket that nowadays occurs is in many ways midwife to valuable pro-Government spin. Thanks to Paul S for highlighting Fraser Nelson’s helpful list of Gordon’s spin – how many of these points will the BBC promote in its coverage? Look out for action contrasted with passivity (Gordon v Dave)- especially how Gordon is leading the world in action- and the recession that “came from America”, as well as plenty of party politicals harking back to the “heartless Tories” using false or misleading comparisons with previous recessions. Maybe you’d like to consider counterpunches, since the BBC probably won’t allow for any or properly cover any Conservative rebuttal…
Brown’s Darling to the rescue
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The rumours that Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling may be reducing the VAT rate from 17.5% to 15% set me thinking about how this would or would not affect prices. Since most retail prices are quoted inclusive of VAT and are set at certain price points the decrease will probably make next to no difference for most retailers who will probably just take the extra 2.13% as extra profit, it might just help offset the rumoured increases in taxation and the loss in turnover. Wholesale prices will be adjusted as most are quoted net of VAT “plus VAT at the prevailing rate”, however as most businesses are Standard Rated for VAT any decrease in VAT will make no difference as it will be accounted for on the VAT return as a reduction in both input VAT and output VAT. There will be a timing difference as businesses mostly still operate on an accruals basis for VAT accounting and so will be reclaiming input VAT at the 17.5% rate whilst paying Output VAT at 15% BUT this still makes no difference to the business’s profits.
Listening to the News at One just now the Beeb must have tried very hard to find someone from the City to support the PBR.
Sopel on News 24 got in that Daily Politics poll about the Brown/Darling economic lead at the earliest chance he got. Leaving aside that it’s a useless poll because it’s not weighted properly, no mention of the latest ICM putting the Tories 11pts ahead…
Yes the B?BC haven’t been bigging up the lates opinion poll showing fatty well behind again.
He never was up in the polls, only the beeboids that shove tons of white powder up their noses thought that.
Meh, they should have dropped VAT to 10%! And dont give me that crap about EU rules not letting you do that (houses are 0% rated for VAT).
Mind you, we might get a real tax cut this afternoon…who knows 🙂
Mailman
I’m in the luxury kitchen market where VAT is quite a sensitive issue– if we get an instant drop it might have a small effect, but if they leave this hanging in the air we will suffer as people will delay buying until the VAT decrease happens.
Think of the stamp duty fiasco. Notasheep is quite right about the overall effect. A bigger problem might be 45 percent tax as the implication of this is that Labour is now at war with the upper middle classes (the money gained from this tax is far less than the bad effect it will have)
Usual lame debate by our mps.
They are happy to spend 100s of billions on banks, then argue with each other whether a temporary VAT cut can be ‘afforded’.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/3512718/Public-sector-makes-up-two-thirds-of-extra-jobs.html
truth coming out now about Browns job creation bonanza!!!
Actually “mailman”, EU rules say that we can have VAT at 0% for some items, but *when we raise it to 15% or above* then we can’t reduce it below 15% without unanimous EU approval.
That’s why 2.5% was the biggest cut we were allowed to make.
Did anyone notice that BBC radio cut off the coverage immediately when the badger-eyebrowed one sat down and didn’t broadcast George’s response? Typical.
Anyone listened to Kevin Maguire and Michael White spouting utter bollocks in support of Nu Liebour?
How these two thick cunts can get a job in the media amazes me.
tonight on BBC2
Documentary
This World: American Time Bomb
7:00pm – 8:00pm
BBC2 North
International investigative documentary series. Is America facing an even greater threat to its economy than the meltdown of its banking system? David Walker, the former Comptroller General of the United States believes that his country is about to drown in an ocean of debt.
I wonder if the BBC will point out the more extreme position of this country’s personal & public debt.
AS of 17:55 the BBC site is still not providing video footage of the ENTIRE PBR; including Osbourne’s devastating dissection.
Only edited clips of darling are available.
God’s Teeth! They’re running scared, aren’t they?
BBC website says stock markets up on announcement of Greater Gordon’s ‘massive’ economic rescue plan.
If one takes the trouble to look at the figures for the market, they’ve risen steadily all day. They had a little peak when the statement started, dropped at the end.
But praise be to Gordo! FOR HE IS THE LARD!
Martin, pleeeeease.
I’m trying to get my youngsters interested in blogging, and this one in particular.
Cut out the really offensive stuff, for goodness sake.
Martin,
Being a ‘thick cunt’ is a positive qualification in todays MSM!
Oooops sorry chuffer, no more swearing from me, glad to see a parent giving their offspring a rounded outlook.
So the choice at the next election is now clear: the “fiscal sanity” of the Tories, to quote the Shadow Chancellor, or the spend now, pay later approach of the Government.
“Britain is in no position to laugh at Iceland’s problems”
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article5209440.ece
Hello IMF
Booze & petrol up by 8% if rounded – nice. Ozzy’s attack was spirited and accurate – a bit sound bitten but still. The Beeb news has been alright – sure Sopel is an alcoholic and can’t do analysis but Robbo & Peston can’t spin that much.
I felt so sorry for Darling – his body language identified utter contempt for Brown. Although there’s some good histories of Darling’s incompetence but he’s not evil.
Chuffer, had no idea you were letting your kids read the blog.
I use it to vent about the beeb and labour.
Will happily watch my language in future.
Compared to guido we on here are angels though.
Did any one see Nick Robinson’s assessment of the Chancellors Pre Budget speech on BBC News 24 at about 6.15pm? He was asked if it might work and he replied: ” If it does…we’ll all be happy and Labour will win a 4th term.” Balanced…..???
Not so much ‘kids’ – they are teenagers, and I try SO HARD to persuade them that swearing shows a devastating lack of intellect – as in Messrs Ross and Brand. And I know that Martin is cleverer than most of us – except Dreary Oxfordian, of course – and so he doesn’t really need to do it.
Call me old-fashioned.
Peston saying the stock market liked it because the FTSE closed up 9%. He missed the fact that it was already up 8% before Darling opened his mouth, and that France, Germany and the US all went up 9-10% today as well.
I watched the coverage on sky news – forgot what a good chanell it is even with adverts – many thanks to sky and vigin media for kissing and making up, I won’t be watching al-beeb news again – another reason not to pay the telly tax.
KPW: Did you watch the Sky News live behind the scenes bit with Martin Stanford? That was really good. Rather than just litening to that shit Darling they just had people commenting on the stuff he was coming out with and also picking up the sneaky stuff the white powder using beeboids don’t want to tell us.
Chuffer: Now you’re going to make me have to kick my cat instead 🙂
Anyone listened to Kevin Maguire and Michael White spouting utter bollocks in support of Nu Liebour?
How these two thick cunts can get a job in the media amazes me.
— Harsh critique –an insult to female genitalia
That’s better; kicking cats is highly recommended in this house!!
The BBC up to its old tricks – the edited version of the shadow chancellors excoriation of Darling – 3.10 mins, full (and excellent)The 14:11 available at the telegraph web site. BBC misses the three killer questions
Does he accept that the national debt will double to £ 1 Trillion?
Does he have an explanation for why Britain is forecast to have the worst recession of any major economy?
Will he confirm that the tax cuts are temporary but the tax rises are permanent?
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1529573275/bctid3140626001
Stock markets have been up round the globe all day – because Citibank has been baled out. NOT because of Brown/Darling.
Just left one of my daughters and her husband. They are going to be absolutely hammered by the looming tax increases – and the VAT reductions are not being made on their heavy expenditure items – especially petrol.
I saw a piece the other day saying there are 3 methods of injecting a Keynesian fillip to help sustain jobs. One is to spend money on public works – usually inefficiently. The other is to give money to us plebs – eg by way of VAT reductions. That won’t work because people have frozen their spending and the cut is not big enough to make much difference – they will be looking for real prices before VAT to drop. The third and only really useful way to try to save jobs is to cut taxes on business. Which they have not done ?
It is gonna get a lot worse IMHO.
Bit OT
Telegraph headline Chancellor to “gamble” £16 billion to put into the economy.
Cant understand it. All he has to do is STOP SENDING IT TO THE EU.
JohnA – precisely and the fact that people who have cash are starting to reinvest in commodities and secure holdings on the assumption that it’s governments that are in hock now. Go long on oil and coal (not being a global warming fan I reckon coal is worth a punt – ask yourself – what would you rather have, a coal powered fire station 20 miles away or a nuke station in your county?)
The documentary on BBC2 was pretty good but then err.. obviously not made by them. The ascent of money by Niall Ferguson on Ch4 is absolutely tops – not patronizing, no CGI’d, just a dude wandering round. Documentary heaven tonight really.
Chuffer, I’ll watch the language too – don’t let the young ‘uns go anywhere near Guido tho!! Derek Draper sat in on the live feed of the PBR this aft – unbelievabe, seriously Brand & Ross are amateurs but then only the advertisers pay for Mr Fawkes and his audience aren’t victims just willing volunteers.
He greenlighted another one billion to india.
How much are id cards and an nhs databases costing.
What about his enron school and hospital rebuilding programme
would be nice if the government sought advice from none partisan experts perhaps. Unfortunatley most people seem to be arm chair economists. The BBC more so because it would and will only ever agree with the labour party, because it opposes the Tories . What a sad state of affairs eh ?
Even obvious wealth creators don’t get a look in because of politics perhaps – philip green. ? (no chance and we know why) branson? Is he just brand wizard ? Lord help us…..inshallah
Odds even on Will ‘dont mention the wifes buy to let property empire’ Hutton is on Newsnight – if he’s not keeled over drunk out of his skull? With expert opinion like his it’s a daily wonder why we have a government at all – prat.
even a labour friend of mine was fucked off with the whole thing… and he’s hardcore labour.
where is the “taking the folks under 20k a year out of tax altogether” ?
of course there is fuck all of it – gordon would rather control you via “tax credits”
my labour friend was mad as hell.
i cant blame him to be honest.
adam | 24.11.08 – 9:29 pm
why in gods name are we giving 1 billion to india , when they are launching space probes to the moon?
WHY? for fucks sake – WHY?
this is the economics of the madhouse.
mandelson –mittal brothers –india
Original Robin, 9.02. You’re absolutely right, in fact I saw an analysis recently which calculated that the EU is now costing this country £60 billion a year taking everything into consideration. Overseas aid is an additional cost that disappears into a black hole. There need be no financial crisis in this country, it’s just that we give it all away.
Can I add my concern over language on the blog, however angry you might be, it adds nothing to the argument – and boy, am I angry.
Disgusting.
As of 22:04, the video of the ‘full’ Osborne response is FINALLY on the BBC news website. But guess what?
It’s broken and mysteriously won’t play.
They really have no shame.
Robert Peston’s blog on PBR:
“End of Thatcher’s Tax Incentives”
[Extract]:
“Tonight, the British economy has taken on a Scandinavian, left-wing tinge.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2008/11/end_of_thatchers_tax_incentive.html
So, mass immigration and subservience to the E.U. will continue.
Does Peston mean this sort of Scandanavian ‘socialism’?:
“Conversations with Fjordman”
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/05/conversations-with-fjordman.html
Interesting that on ITN news at 10, Daisy Sampson said that the reason the UK stock market rose today was down to the US bailout of Citibank.
On the BBC however, although Peston briefly mentioned the US (he didn’t mention the bail out) he remarked that the rise in the market was linked to what the two Liebour idiots had done today.
Talk about talking bollocks.
archduke: Remember that Mcfatso uses the tax system to reward those that vote Liebour.
So think, the unemployed, the illegals and the public sector lot. Oh and the jocks.
Geoff,
As long as any VAT cuts are tied to a social need, then we dont need EU permission to make the cut.
And considering the hundreds of millions of pounds spent by the public service on consultants, Im sure these buggers could have come up with an excuse good enough to be dressed up as a “social need” 🙂
Mailman
the BBC coverage of the pre budget report:
Q. what’s the difference between BBC and soviet pravda?
A. None
Five seconds of Osbourne with his squeaky, newly-found semi-glottal-stop mockney was four seconds too many for me!
Annex scotland.
They get too much and then moan about it
Darling’s new stealth tax on petrol and diesel fuel:
“PBR: Motorists face higher fuel prices as duty rises”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/3514422/Pre-Budget-report-Motorists-face-higher-fuel-prices-as-duty-rises.html
So, amongst other things, the UK’s commercial road fleets will be even more economically disadvantaged against their E.U. competitors, virtually all of whom have lower fuel prices for their transport.
Hypocrite Brown: he goes to Saudi Arabia, like a dhimmi, grovelling for lower oil prices, then, back in Britain, he increases fuel duty from the already colossal 60% of a cost of a litre! No doubt to please the ‘greenie’ lobbyists.
Thought Osborne was very good –made Darling look a bit uncomfortable –or maybe that was Browns arm up his back –the glove puppet!!
Well, ed, the 10 o’clock news tesred
your hypothesis to the full. A study in scepticism from robinson, pym and peston “gamble” the theme from robinson; the unprecedented level of debt peston’s focus; and pym concerned with future pain.
osborne needs to go.
we need a hard bruiser of a fucker to demolish this commie bastards…
not some gaylord Eton twat.