I bet you’ll all be tuning in on Saturday night to BBC Radio 4 to catch Rory Bremner’s farewell to President Bush. Bremner “considers the rhetorical evolution of George W Bush, from gaffe-prone candidate to grandiose war president. He considers whether Bush grew to become an effective orator and who was responsible for writing the words he spoke and examines some of his key speeches and phrases.” The trailer for the programme consists entirely of gaffes made by Bush and I think we can be sure that this programme is designed to produce one big raspberry at the departing Bush. Now then, I accept that Bush DID make gaffes, but then again, who doesn’t? So I hope Rory and the gang will immediately start working on a follow -up programme on Obama – starting with those 57 States of America, examining his Muslim, sorry Christian faith, and how he has a few problems without the teleprompter. Rory’s researchers could have a read here if they want more material on The One. In the interests of balance, of course.
BUSH WHACKED.
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Nearly oxfordian: so in your view anyone who expresses a view against Israeli policy is anti-semite?
Bill, do sue your teachers and your parents, because nobody taught you to read. The dumb meme that “Criticising Israel is not antisemitism” has been shot dead here (and at Harry’s Place, etc etc) many many times. Nobody said that it IS antisemitism.
What IS antisemitism is what you are doing: demanding higher standards from the Jews because they are democratic. That is called RACISM (look it up: discriminating between people on the basis of their ethnicity).
Moreover, your ignorant, screeching propaganda is also a strong sign of antisemitism. You make these categorical statements (“it’s all about land … blah blah …”) while knowing eff all about it. You display anger about Jews protecting their fellow-citizens, something you would demand YOUR government did if YOU were shelled from France.
Of course it’s not ‘about religion’. Such strawmen are also the mark of a racist demagogue. The Jews are a nation, something you keep denying.
Bill Buchanan | 07.01.09 – 2:58 pm | #
A little disingenuous Bill. Else I did not make myself clear.
The points I asked you were:
1. What would you want to happen if YOUR house were targeted?
2 Where is the evidence for your statement that Israel wants to “bomb the Gaza strip out of the ground”?
Otherwise you only deepen my prejudice of academics being all mouth and no trousers.
Nearly Oxfordian:
idiot, I demand a higher stand from Israel not from the Jews. its like saying, i demand a higher standard from britain cos its leaders are white. race has nothing to do with it. Hamas is a group within a disputed territory, its hard to know what to expect of them. Israel on the other hand is democratic state, a member of the UN, and a friend of the rich and powerful countries – so yeah there are 3 good reasons for holding them to a higher standard.
If my house were targeted? by hamas? they dont target certain houses mate, I thought they just shelled indescrimantly.
and what would I do if I were Israel? Well I would go to the UN/NATO/other friends in the region (and despite what you think, Jordan and Eygpt do work with Israel on occassion, when interests conincide) and work out a way to deal with Hamas. Plus, I would put all the pressure I could on Abbas and the PLO to talk to Hamas. What I wouldn’t do is bomb a load of places (like theyve been doing) and follow it up with a ground assault which won’t achieve a damn thing.
Nobody said that it IS antisemitism.
What IS antisemitism is what you are doing: demanding higher standards from the Jews because they are democratic. That is called RACISM (look it up: discriminating between people on the basis of their ethnicity). Moreover, your ignorant, screeching propaganda is also a strong sign of antisemitism.
Nearly Oxfordian | 07.01.09 – 4:13 pm | #
Christ, calm down. If you’d looked he said “Israel is a democratic state”, not the Jews, and you accuse him of a strawman argument! By the way, Israel isn’t just made up of Jews.
Exactly it, Israel is not just made up of Jews. A nation state (Israel) is to blame for this ‘war’ , a race or religion is not to blame.
Bill Buchanan | 07.01.09 – 5:09 pm |
No, Hamas are to blame for this war and they’re a proud part of the ummah. They are muslims and like most (if not all) muslims they hate Israel because they hate Jews. Is that so difficult to understand.
Visit http://www.jihadwatch.org – you may learn something.
Jihadwatch is a site for paranoid lunatics. You think they provide a fair and balanced view of things? Its McCarthyism for the 21st century.
Bill Buchanan
“The conflict is not even about religion, if you actually studied the middle east you woul know that it was about land, and only land.”
I repeat. Is it?
Care to look at this map and explain why it is about land?
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Maps don’t lie.
Cassis; I’ve read a lot more about the middle east than you have I’m sure. It’s a conflict about land, and both sides use religion as a means of getting support/finance/allies to help their cause. The PLO only took up religious concerns in the 70s/80s, and the Israelis have only used religion as a rallying call. It is about land.
Bill Buchanan:
You didn’t look at the map, did you?
You see all those green coloured countries – you know the muslim ones – countries which should be only to ready to take in all those suffering muslims from Gaza and help them support themselves?
Well, why don’t they. And why do you want to make that tiny little red country even smaller?
What on earth frightens you about that tiny little red country?
Cassis; I’ve read a lot more about the middle east than you have I’m sure. It’s a conflict about land, and both sides use religion as a means of getting support/finance/allies to help their cause. The PLO only took up religious concerns in the 70s/80s, and the Israelis have only used religion as a rallying call. It is about land
ROFL. So you’ve ‘read about the ME’, eh?
Have you BEEN there?
I lived there for many years. Since you think that you know more than Casis because you’ve read a few books at Islington town hall, will you admit that you know eff all compared to me?
It’s bugger all about religion on the Jewish side. Sure, there are 1% religious nutters, which people wheel out all the time. But the remaining 99% is about national history, culture, and a homeland that goes back 3000 years.
Cassis,
It’s Joos under the bed, Joos under the bed …
Jihadwatch is a site for paranoid lunatics.
Well, you’d know all about that.
If you haven’t noticed the Jihad – the Islamists are proclaiming it loudly – you are blind, deaf and dumb (in the literal sense).
Nonsense, Richard. Israel is being used here as a code for Jews. Talk about strawmen … he and you are experts on that.
Kindly tell me why he is getting het up about Israel, when real massacres are happening in Darfur and all over the Muslim world?
I were Israel? Well I would go to the UN
LOL. Mad as a hatter.
Tell me, have you ever held a gun in your hand? Or else why do you think you know more about military affairs than the generals?
Oh thanks for educating me Mr Town Hall with all your years of living in the Middle East (or ME as you call it, but I believe you may have confused that with a disease).
Yes I am well aware of the Jihad – those nasty young muslims all hate freedom and ‘our way of life’. They grow up with so much hate in their hearts. All they wanna do is blow good people up. All of em. I don’t even go to Bradford any more, its just full of terrorists who hate everyone else.
Bill 5:07
You say Israel should go to the UN/NATO.
1. Do you think that the UN is even-handed between Israel and the Arab states and Iran, and that Israel should trust the UN ?
2. Please explain what NATO has to do with this ? Or did you mean CENTO ?
oooh, WITTY!
Those who have done more than read a couple of books call it the ME. Sorry you are so ignorant.
Tell me, have you ever held a gun in your hand?
Ohh yes I have. I go hunting all the time, that and protecting my property and my god fearing neighbours from the afore-mentioned terrorists multiplying in their millions in the streets near where we all live. I often hold a gun and patrol the streets to keep the order. Just to protect the right of freedom of speech for lovely people like you!
I wonder whether General Bill has heard of the Hamas charter.
Hi Bill Buchanan,
It’s not about land. It’s about Jihad and to equate democratic Israel with the vermin in Hamas is not appropriate. They love death like we love life, give them what the want.
Bill, have you taken your medication today?
Only just saw this drivel:
the Jews are not a nation
This is the height of antisemitism, telling Jews they are not a nation. I am a Jew, and I tell you we are a nation. Now fuck off.
if you actually studied the middle east you woul know that it was about land, and only land
Since I have lived in the ME, it’s hilarious to be told this by an ignoramus who has never been outside the M25.
idiot, I demand a higher stand from Israel not from the Jews. its like saying, i demand a higher standard from britain cos its leaders are white. race has nothing to do with it. Hamas is a group within a disputed territory, its hard to know what to expect of them. Israel on the other hand is democratic state, a member of the UN, and a friend of the rich and powerful countries – so yeah there are 3 good reasons for holding them to a higher standard.
The usual racist drivel.
All you BBBC guys out there who hounded Mikewhitewineywhineyliberal off this site should be ashamed of yourselves now !
We have Bill Buchanan and ipreferred instead.
Come back Mikey boy, all is forgiven !
Israel is an island of hope surrounded by a sea of shit.
Bill B:
You write that “Hamas is a group within a disputed territory”.
Just wondering, disputed by who? Israel pulled out years ago. Who else wants Gaza? Egypt? Syria?
RE: Bill Buchanan
“If my house were targeted? by hamas? they dont target certain houses mate, I thought they just shelled indescrimantly”…
Yes, Bill Hamas fire the rockets indescriminatly. It’s the random nature of the attacks that make them so terryfing to live with. So whilst the rockets only kill a handful of people each year, they disrupt the everyday lives of tens of thousands. Hence the reason why no GVN (anywhere in the world) would put up with them, hence the retailiation.
“would I do if I were Israel? Well I would go to the UN/NATO/other friends in the region (and despite what you think, Jordan and Eygpt do work with Israel on occassion, when interests conincide) and work out a way to deal with Hamas.”
A none starter I’m afraid, Bill: No doubt the rulers of Jordan and Egypt would love to ‘deal’ with Hamas. Certainly, in private, many Arab leaders(excluding Iran & Syria) would love to see Hamas bloodied, but their regimes’s would be toppled by popular revolt, if they publicly sided with Israel or helped in the destruction of Hamas.
“Plus, I would put all the pressure I could on Abbas and the PLO to talk to Hamas.”
In case you hadn’t noticed Bill, Hamas and Fatah are engaged in a bloody civil war. And with Hamas winning the battle for Palastinian hearts and minds, why should Hamas suddenly agree to compromise/talk to Abbas?
So we are back to square one. I’m sure if you spoke to the Israeli leadership in private, they would agree with your analysis that this military campaign has no hope of securing/imposing a final peace settlement. And yes, in the long-run it will only feed into and increase the sense of anger in Palestine and across the Arab world but at for the moment it will…
1. Provide some reasurrance to Israel’s citizens that it is doing something…
2. Diminish Hamas’ military capability in the short-term.
Mikewhitewineywhineyliberal is always with us, only called different names. The BBC black ops department is ever present.
Just wondering what the Judeophobes on here would regard as being a “proportionate” response to rockets fired at random at Israel’s civilian population. Would they be happy for Israel to fire rockets at random back into Gaza on a one-for-one basis? Like, er, “proportionately”?
Bill Buchanan: Perhaps you should ask WHY when Israel was being attacked by rockets day in and day out from Gaza BEFORE the invasion not only did no one in the media give a shit, tosspots like you didn’t come on here and condemn Hamas and none of the other left wing losers (George wanker boy Galloway or pig face Annie Lennox) were protesting on the streets of London about the killing of Jewish children. Why not?
Oh and WHY were Hamas launching mortars and rockets from close by to the UN school knowing that Israel may well shoot back? Is that something you would do?
As a former serviceman myself, I would not place myself close to a school or hospital and then attack the enemy nor would we be allowed to place military equipment close to schools or hospitals. However, I’d point out that this is the Muslim way. They’ve always used women and in particular their children as little more than bullet magnets AND Mr Buchanan you might like to remember that the Palestinians love their children SO MUCH, they send them to suicide bombing schools. Or did you just happen to miss that story?
Finally, there is an easy may to end the killing. The Palestinians simply need to surrender, just like the Germans and Japanese did in WW2. If you don’t, you die. Simple as that.
Re: Bill
One final point Bill. if the dispute is only about land, then why are Hezbollah still at war with Israel?
Remember Israel has totally withdrawn from Lebanon (as ceryified by the UN in June 2008).
And before you mention the Shebaa Farms – The international community recognises this area as part of Syria not Lebanon. Indeed, Syria (one of Hezbollah principle benefactors) still claims soverignity.
I feel so left out as Bill never replies to my comments. Maybe I am too polite.
Bill ,at least , please reply to my question about why should Israel go to NATO ? What has NATO got to do with it ? Or did you mean CENTO ?
Nearly Oxfordian | 07.01.09 – 5:38 pm | #
“Nonsense, Richard. Israel is being used here as a code for Jews. Talk about strawmen … he and you are experts on that.”
With all due respect, I’d say that’s in your imagination.
“Kindly tell me why he is getting het up about Israel, when real massacres are happening in Darfur and all over the Muslim world?”
Well, I can’t speak for him, but I’d think it’s because as he stated, Israel is the only democracy in amongst a sea of theocracies and dicatorships. I also believe that as a democracy we should always expect a higher regard for life than such countries. And before I’m accused of it, no I’m not saying Israel is guilty of genocide or anything of a remotely similar level.
As far as I’m concerned, Israel has the right to defend itself, but as soon as it starts attacking targets where there’s a high risk of completely innocent lives being lost, it loses a moral highground.
I happen to believe that such a moral highground is one of the things we need to retain if we aim on winning the propaganda war against terror groups. That’s why I also believe the use of torture by the West in the fight against terror is unjustified and ultimately self-defeating. Of course I know others will disagree and they are welcome to their opinion.
grant – i’m moved.
@ Bill Buchanan,
“and what would I do if I were Israel? Well I would go to the UN/NATO/other friends..”
and we all know how much the UN just lurve Israel, dont we…?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uhWgZu6tcZU
Mikewiney 6:19
I never thought you would read it. Now I am going to get hounded off this website !
Just to put to rest this stupid use of the term “proportionality”
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GEHNZxIA0-Q
Public teat 6:25
Thank you for that link. I would urge everyone to look at this 6 miunute clip from a UN Human Rights meeting in Geneva.
If anyone can watch that and still not agree that the UN are anti-Israel hypocrites, then it defies logic.
I especially look forward to Middle-East expert Bill Buchanan’s comments.
nearly oxfordian declares that i am ‘
an ignoramus who has never been outside the M25.
Thats prejudice isnt it? I bet you get annoyed when people make prejudiced remarks about Jews dont you? But its okay for you to make prejudiced remarks about others? Okay.
Richard Lancaster must be the only person here who talks any sense. And why? because he seems to see both sides of the arguement, unlike the rest of you who have chosen a side, and look for facts which support your argument. its not a sport, its not about following your team, wanting your side to win. (i’m talking about us in the west here, not the chap who claims to have lived the good life in the ME, MS MJ or whatever he says)
why can’t some of you guys on here see both sides? accept that Israel is making a huge mistake, whilst also accepting that hamas have a share of the blame too?
the reason a lot of people like Obama is because he seems to be able to see both sides to an arguement. he doesn’t see it in terms of ‘us and them’ like many of you do.
Grant
why not NATO? If the UN aren;t doing much, any international body might be able to help. someone needs to.
Richard Lancaster: Rubbish. If you take YOUR viewpoint to it’s extreme every Muslim dictator would build a hospital or school on an airfield or army base knowing that in the event of a war ‘democracies’ wouldn’t be allowed to attack them.
What if Muslims also strapped children to the front of their tanks? Would you still wank on about ‘the moral high ground?’
I’ve really read some utter rubbish posted by sandal wearing idiots the last few days.
The real responsibility is with the fucking towel heads who set out to use their children as weapons in the first place.
I notice you totally ignored the MUSLIM world using children (and women and the mentally ill) as suicide bombers. Perhaps you think that a child dressed up in a suicide bomb shouldn’t be shot if he’s about to detonate it in a crowded place?
martin says
Perhaps you should ask WHY when Israel was being attacked by rockets day in and day out from Gaza BEFORE the invasion not only did no one in the media give a shit, tosspots like you didn’t come on here and condemn Hamas and none of the other left wing losers (George wanker boy Galloway or pig face Annie Lennox) were protesting on the streets of London about the killing of Jewish children. Why not?
answer; cos the rockets were not killing hundreds of innocent civilians, and Israel is. fact, not spin, fact. Israel isn’t trying to kill these innocents, but it is happening anyway and to simply jusitfy it under the banner of ‘acceptable losses’ or ‘collateral damage’ or whatever other newspeak term will not do.
Jonathan: That Buchanan moron was totally wrong about it only being about land. That’s just an excuse. Hamas (backed by Iran) wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. They’ve never hidden that fact.
martin refers to the ‘the fucking towel heads’. yeah, that sums is up. so anti-israeli comments here are unnaceptable racism, antisemitism etc, but racist attacks on muslims are fine huh? good. go join the national front you prat.
Bill Buchanan: So it doesn’t matter that the missiles may or may not kill? you sound more like that fucking halfwit Galloway.
So what are the Israelis supposed to do? Just live in fear of a missile hitting their house or school? I bet you wouldn’t put up with it.
Bill Buchanan: Yep. People on here know I hate Muslims. So what’s your point loser?
Bill Buchanan: Disliking Muslims because they follow a stupid barbaric religion has nothing to do with race you fucking arsehole. I’m not a fan of any religion, but Islam is a real vile evil piece of shit. The people that follow it are no better.
If Christians went around trying to use violence to convert me to their religion I’d hate them as well.