I bet you’ll all be tuning in on Saturday night to BBC Radio 4 to catch Rory Bremner’s farewell to President Bush. Bremner “considers the rhetorical evolution of George W Bush, from gaffe-prone candidate to grandiose war president. He considers whether Bush grew to become an effective orator and who was responsible for writing the words he spoke and examines some of his key speeches and phrases.” The trailer for the programme consists entirely of gaffes made by Bush and I think we can be sure that this programme is designed to produce one big raspberry at the departing Bush. Now then, I accept that Bush DID make gaffes, but then again, who doesn’t? So I hope Rory and the gang will immediately start working on a follow -up programme on Obama – starting with those 57 States of America, examining his Muslim, sorry Christian faith, and how he has a few problems without the teleprompter. Rory’s researchers could have a read here if they want more material on The One. In the interests of balance, of course.
BUSH WHACKED.
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Ohh sounds like I got you upset. Dear dear, angry right wing lunatic. Go and read jihadwatch, that ll make you feel better.
I’d think it’s because as he stated, Israel is the only democracy in amongst a sea of theocracies and dicatorships
Therefore, you can demand of it that it should surrender to genocidal maniacs and commit suicide. Utter rot.
as soon as it starts attacking targets where there’s a high risk of completely innocent lives being lost, it loses a moral highground.
It’s called a WAR, you loon. Israel doesn’t need your pompous approval. It is defending itself, shooting back at the source of fire (others on here like me who have seen military service know this to be a basic given; an ignoramus like you wouldn’t).
It’s Hamas that shoots from schools, indeed uses them as ammunition dumps. That happens to be a war crime. Can we have your pompous comments on this fact, please?
Thats prejudice isnt it? I bet you get annoyed when people make prejudiced remarks about Jews dont you?
Only an idiot like you would fail to see the difference between racist characterisations of an ethnicity, and personal comments about your ignorance.
I am not surprised to see the love fest here between two ignorant loons. Screeching comments about the Jews ‘losing the moral high ground’ because they defend themselves are now ‘seeing both sides’? Angels and ministers of grace defend me from such idiots.
the rockets were not killing hundreds of innocent civilians
To people like you, ‘only’ 20 Joos murdered a year are no big deal, they should just soak it forever, right?
racist attacks on muslims are fine huh?
This tosser seems to think that Islam is a race.
Bill Buchanan: Oh dear was that your dummy I just read being spat across the floor? Go and have a skinny latte with your BBC chums to calm down.
Seems to me the world is a complex confusing and inconsistent place. The good guys sometimes do bad things. Its simple only to those with an over-arching ideology – Socialism or Islam. Both these are a form of mental illness which take away the confusion and uncertainty of truth and replaces it with the certainty of a big lie. The lie has a cast of thousands – the “bad”: Bush, Amerika, the jews, capitalism, Christianity and so on, and the “good”: – Cuba, Palestine, Chavez, Ombama, Islam and so on.
I don’t think it is personal to Israel – they’re not that smart, it just fits with the narrative and what their friends say. It is necessary to hate Israel because to do otherwise is quite threatening . If you were wrong about Israel, might not you be wrong about a lot else besides?
angry right wing lunatic
Bingo. It’s some prat from Lenin’s Tomb, as I knew all along – using ‘right wing’ as a swear word.
Supporting freedom for the Jews in their own country is not ‘right wing’, idiot.
Andrew – excellent, 100% to the point!
also accepting that hamas have a share of the blame too
Wow, that’s magnanimous: a genocidal terror group that has vowed to destroy Israel and murder all its citizens, many of whom it has murdered, has some share of the blame too …
Fuck off, Jew-hater. You are not wanted here.
Nearly Oxfordian:
“…Fuck off, Jew-hater. You are not wanted here…”
You’re getting as bad as me 🙂
Nice one though.
Bill,
Still waiting for an answer to my question…but just in case you missed it I’ve reposted it below;
“How does one negotiate with a group of religious fundies dedicated to your extermination (just in case you try to play silly buggers Im clearly talking about how does Israel negotiate with Hamas).”
Mailman
Mailman: The tosspot won’t reply. He just spins the same shit as Galloway that Hamas doesn’t want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Galloway posting 🙂
George Galloway continually claims that Hamas has signed up to an agreement that Israel has a right to exist. This is of course bollocks and is simply an excuse so that soap dodgers can demonstrate against Israel with a ‘clean conscience’ (usually the only clean part of their body)
Bill 7:02
Well you answered about NATO, but not about CENTO. I thought you would have taken the opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge of the Middle East, through your extensive reading, by pointing out that CENTO ( The Central Treaty Organisation ) was disbanded in 1979 !
I would have thought you would have pounced on my elementary error !
Andrew 7:24
Absolutely spot on ! Islam and Socialism are two sides of the same coin .
Grant: Add Communism in as well. One of the greatest evils to ever grace human existence.
“Jew-hater” = anyone who does not agree 100% with Israel@s stance.
both sides are as bad as each other in the way they launch rockets/bomb.
Bill Buchanan | 07.01.09 – 2:58 pm
Absolute fucking rubbish! (and I am not one easily given to swearing)
Hamas lob unguided missiles in the general direction of civilian areas hoping to kill civilians, a practice that even Human Rights Watch declares is a war crime and a crime against humanity.
Israel carefully targets military objectives using a minimum of explosives to do the job. Palestinian witnesses have today said that Hamas operatives are taking children by force and obliging them to act as human shields.
No equivalence – no cigar.
Bill Buchanan also states clearly that he holds Israel to higher standards than other countries. Well done, you qualify as an antisemite – no argument about it!
WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTISEMITISM
Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:
*Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Read it all Billy boy, and eat yer heart out!
Bio 8:15
Hamas and Hizbollah have a long history of using children as human shields.
In the Gaza strip, Hamas even broadcast on TV and Radio for children volunteers to stand on the tops of buildings hoping that, if the Israeli pilots see them, they won’t bomb. They have done this before, no just in this incursion. It’s a real game of chess, but only one side uses children as pawns. The same happened in Lebanon.
Never quite makes the BBC news though !
Martin 8:09
Yes, communism as well. What unites them all is that they don’t really believe in democracy or individual freedom.
Matt: nonsense. Jew haters are those that can’t see Israel is a tiny Country of 6 millions surrounded by tens of millions of people who despise them.
Israel has a right to exist in peace. It has a right to defend itself. How it does that is up to Israel. Ultimately it’s politicians are answerable to its people, unlike Muslim Countries where the dictators answer to no one.
If Hamas really wants peace then the answer is very simple, so simple even a sandal wearing BBC liberal (well except that wantstain Bowen) could work it out.
Stop firing rockets into Israel. If you don’t you will die.
Grant: That’s right. All three brainwash people and turn them into brainless robots willing to die for their masters.
Notice that the leaders of the Muslims (like Bin Laden) are not so willing to die for their great cause are they? They send the brainwashed morons from the Mosques to do that.
Memo to Jeremy Bowen et. al.:
‘Ask Egypt to let you into the Gaza Strip’
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/31/video-so-what-did-palestinian-kids-learn-on-tv-this-week/
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/Infants.jpg
http://children.foreignpolicyblogs.com/files/2007/05/pal-child-abuse-14.jpg
http://children.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2007/05/06/palestinian-children-reared-to-fight-and-die-for-a-free-palestine/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/reem-raiyshi-with-son.jpeg
This thread seems to have gone directly from Obama to Gaza for some reason.
Maybe I can go a little further and bring it back to BBC bias.
Today is the Muslim festival of “Ashura”. I thought the BBC would be celebrating it, maybe they have covered it somewhere.
Since the BBC and Muslims love children so much, I thought the BBC would be showing photos of children self-flagellating themselves with knives and babies having their foreheads cut until the blood runs freely.
Surely Hamas would provide them with this footage, except claim it had been done by Israelis ? !
Biodegradable | 07.01.09 – 8:34 pm |
Thats a good point – also if Hamas is worried about the civilian population why are they not talking to Egypt to evacuate them through the same border?
Bingo. It’s some prat from Lenin’s Tomb, as I knew all along – using ‘right wing’ as a swear word.
Supporting freedom for the Jews in their own country is not ‘right wing’, idiot.
Quite,however.
Let me please help some of you people with the only definition of what right and left actually means.
Firstly left wing.
Is what a person who believes themselves to be left wing, believes represents everything they like. While also being , what a person who believes themselves to be right wing, believes represents everything they don’t like.
Secondly right wing.
Is what a person who believes themselves to be right wing, believes represents everything they like. While also being, what a person who believes themselves to be left wing, believes represents everything they don’t like.
Which basically means the terms are meaningless for any particular policy or reasoning.
Who therefore defines what these therms mean?
In this country, surly the only thing that defines these terms is The BBC itself.
The BBC defines right wing as everything that it is ordered or mind controlled into collectively disliking.
The truth as in so many things the BBC gets its blood covered establishment hands on, is not divided 50/50 by good and evil. However much the establishment wish to divide us in such a way, and have very successfully done so far.
It is my hope, using my own personal effort and propaganda that this BBC induced division between common people can be in some way rectified.
Please be reminded of certain well established historical facts.
Wars do not benefit ordinary people either financially spiritually or politically.
Wars do however greatly benefit our ruling elites. Which is why we still have wars in the year 2008. Instead of all taking holidays on Mars by now.
We are expected to believe that in the age 40 years after getting a man on the moon. When we can read news papers on the ground from orbit. 18 years on from the collapse of the USSR and therefore the end of the Cold War. When you can get a cell phone call out from The Amazon Jungle. When even a 3rd world school could afford a personal computer, and on and on.
That the extremely powerful and incredible rich powers that secretly control almost this entire planet.
Could not sort out this middle-east bullshit within 2 years or much much quicker, if they really wanted to?
These people have orchestrated WORLD WARS over 60 years ago. Including things such as The murder of 6 million Jews, Hiroshima and Dresden bombing raids, Russian and French revolutions, D-Day landings, and Iraq invasions. You name it, if it cost billions, and some poor half dead entirely enslaved tax payer is going to end up paying for it all with interest, one way or another, these people were behind it, somewhere on BOTH sides.
But collectively seem frozen in time somewhere back in the middle ages, when it comes to sorting out one very small part of the world.
The establishment are both right and left, both at the same time as are the people.
IMO
We the CREATIVE people represent the best halves of both ideologies. While our worlds collective highly destructive establishment, represents the worst halves of both ideologies.
One of the BBCs main jobs, is to never let you know your true human condition. The way it does this is to divide the world into left and right. When NO such division actually should or indeed does exist. This division only exists at all in the minds of people who pay far to much attention to BBC TV or any other form of state or private, controlled media owned enterprise.
In summery
Division and the conflicts division causes, makes the elite forever more rich and powerful, and us the people ever more controlled and impoverished.
Which is undoubtedly the real reason why all WARS start, kill as many people as they do, last as long as they need to, and then are almost instantly stopped, when the maximum amount has been confiscated, enslaved, Gulaged, intimidated, murdered or destroyed.
“Jew haters are those that can’t see Israel is a tiny Country of 6 millions surrounded by tens of millions of people who despise them.”
Who on here is saying this. The terms anti-Jew, anti-Semite And Racist are flung about on this blog by certain individuals towards anyone they disagree with about Israel.
“Israel has a right to exist in peace. It has a right to defend itself. How it does that is up to Israel.”
Absolutely, and I and anyone else has a right to be critical of Israel’s actions. This does not make us anti-Jew.
Compromise, on both sides, is the only thing which will bring about a lasting peace. That is what has happened in Northern Ireland. If the “No Surrender” crew in Northern Ireland had their way, the conflict would still be going on. If there is no compromise in Israel/Palestine, the conflict will continue for an even longer time.
What’s anti-Jew, anti-Semitic or Racist about my arguement? You may not agree with me but please don’t insult me.
It’s becoming a bit of a ‘last orders’ version of CiF here. I like it!
It’s probably driving some people away to less bombastic blogs.
Jon: Because as Richard Littlejohn once said the Palestinians are the pikeys’ of the middle east. No fucker wants them? Would you? A million troublemakers living within your population. I think not.
The Egyptians are happy to see them fenced in where they are.
Stop firing rockets into Israel. If you don’t you will die.
It really doesn’t seem to sink in, does it?
Don’t mess with Israel, it’s a really bad idea.
You’d think they’d get it by now.
The only problem NO, that is exactly what Hamas wants…they want their people to be killed by Israel.
Again Bill, how do you talk to someone who is committed to your total and complete destruction?
Mailman
bill: not true. I think David Vance said over the last 12 months this blog has been more popular than ever. If you’re a leftist and come here don’t spout George Galloway shite and expect not to get verbally taken to task. This is not some nancy boy University debating room where everyone spouts crap for an hour then goes and gets some Cocaine.
This is about taking the BBC (and their lacky’s) to task about bias, be it over politics, crime or the economy.
Nearly Oxfordian: Perhaps sending them some copies of the complete set of the World at War DVD’s might help convince them. The Germans and the Japanese didn’t surrender did they? Look at the shithole they ended up with after the war. They still lost in the end.
Martin: I did say I liked it!
I’m banned from CiF twice over for crossing the line with the leftards & it pisses me off.
I just felt some more moderate people would balk at the banter.
Sorry.
The 3rd time today I have made that mistake.
It is as we know 2009, not 2008. However you can take the rest as fact.
Who on here is saying this. The terms anti-Jew, anti-Semite And Racist are flung about on this blog by certain individuals towards anyone they disagree with about Israel.
The usual strawman. Sorry, doesn’t wash – mainly because it’s a LIE.
I refer to antisemites as antisemites, not to those who make sane criticisms – and will continue to do so. Antisemites come in many colours, e.g.
“I demand higher standards from Jews” (who the fuck appointed you to judge Jews?);
“the Jews are as bad as the Arabs” (no, the Arabs want to annihilate the Jews, not vice versa);
“The Jews are not a nation” (the Jews will decide this, not some pompous ignorant non-Jew asshole who thinks he is superior to the Jews and can decide this for them);
“The Jews are not indigenous to the ME … they are European colonialists …” (the Jews had a thriving culture and successful polity in Israel while the ancestors of the British were swineherds in the forests of eastern Europe, Celts and Saxons both);
the idea that Norwegians and Japanese can have their national state, but Jews can’t (this often includes as a subset one or more of the above lunacies);
… all the way, of course, to
“today’s Jews are the world’s worst murderers, worse than the Nazis” (why worse? would ‘as bad as the Nazis’ not be sufficiently deranged?)
There are many other shades, of course. They include the dissimulation “We only hate Zionists, not Jews” (mainly screeched by people who have no clue what Zionism is).
Anyway, the gambit of ‘Not all Israel haters are antisemites’ won’t wash, since these people don’t hate China (guilty of some of the worst repression in the world), Cuba, Syria, Sudan, … – only Israel (and the USA, naturally – since it supports Israel).
Sane and even-handed criticism is fine. Biased, ignorant propaganda isn’t.
“It’s probably driving some people away to less bombastic blogs.”
You are probably right. I enjoy reading this blog most of the time and I agree with most of the comments about BBC bias.
However, especially when it comes to Israel, any comment not towing the party line means the poster is subjected to abuse.
Maybe entrance to the site should be prefaced by a warning that only comments agreeing with the critism will be treated sympathetically. Then, all those who abuse others can then just chat with themselves.
The only problem NO, that is exactly what Hamas wants…they want their people to be killed by Israel.
Yes, but their leaders don’t want to be flattened by Israeli laser-guided missiles, as happens with delightful regularity – they are not exactly brave warriors, are they, except in their own imagination.
Matt | 07.01.09 – 8:59 pm |
I agree with your sentiments about abuse – but I think it would help peoples case if they could argue reasonably why they think Israel is acting disproportionally and what they think any country would do if they were attacked by thousands of rockets.
I am sure that if it was any other country who had decided to defend itself no one would be protesting. And I doubt if the BBC would cover it even a fraction of the time it is covering this story.
Matt: sorry but you are wrong. Israel gets a tough time off the BBC and other lefty media. The impression that the BBC gives is that everyone in the UK is opposed to what Israel is doing.
Since when did a bunch of sandal wearing drug taking left wing losers speak for me and millions of others?
If Israel started sending suicide bombers into hospitals in Egypt them I’d be saying that is wrong. But what Israel is doing at the moment is just defending itself.
Just look at all the fuss now being made by the wet liberals in the media. Where were they when thousands of rockets have been hitting Israel from Gaza long after Israel withdrew (as the left had demanded) from there?
Can you remember Annie Lennox protesting outside the Iranian embassy demanding they stop supplying rockets to the Palestinians? Nope neither do I.
“I am sure that if it was any other country who had decided to defend itself no one would be protesting”
Could you back that statement up with some examples?
The situation in Israel/Palestine is, IMHO, unique.
“I think it would help peoples case if they could argue reasonably why they think Israel is acting disproportionally and what they think any country would do if they were attacked by thousands of rockets.”
Yes reasonable arguement would help both sides to understand each other’s case.
Martin says:
Where were they when thousands of rockets have been hitting Israel from Gaza long after Israel withdrew (as the left had demanded) from there?
The Hamas rockets did not kill hundreds of innocent civilians in the way that the Israeli campaign has. If the Hamas rockets had killed lots of innocent people, I can assure you it would have been on the BBC News. Trust me, I work for the Beeb.
Matt: although I suspect your call to “back that statement up with examples” is an ipreferred attempt to irritate, I’ll take you at your word with this, regarding the situation in Sri Lanka:
“Steven Plaut makes a similar point about the pathological and obsessive double standards applied to Israel:
Over the years, 65,000 people have been killed in the war with the Tamils in Sri Lanka, almost all of them civilians.Meanwhile not a single Solidarity-with-the-Tamil-Tigers protest has been organized on a single Western campus or in a single downtown square. Jewish leftists have not taken to the streets to demand an end to the war of aggression against the Tamils. Leftist websites have not proclaimed every injury of a Tamil civilian to be a Nazi-like war crime by Sri Lanka and an act of genocide.
The Eurocrats have not pontificated about how the Sri Lankan response to terror was out of proportion. The BBC did not describe the Tamil suicide bombers as activists. The International Solidarity Movement has not sent in protesters from the West to try to defend the terrorists. Communists and fellow travelers have not organized flotillas of boats carrying aid to the terrorists to ‘break the siege.’ Hundreds of non-governmental organizations claiming to be concerned about human rights have not rushed aid to the terrorists in the name of humanitarian concerns…. Those silly, naïve Sri Lankans ignored all the sage advice and just went ahead and solved their problem of terrorism with a military solution.”
It’s from the melanie Phillips blog, by the way – and it is relevant to John Connors’ last comment too.
Don’t worry, we will NEVER trust anyone who works for the Beeb
Yeah I went and got in with my night…didnt have the time to waste it discussing things with racists and bigots. Matt seems to have his head screwed on, a rarity in these parts.
Someone who dislikes Israeli policy is not an anti semitic, get over yourself. Yes I hold Israel to a higher standard than Hamas because, once again, Hamas is not a state, it does not have the money, nor the resources, nor the intel, nor the backers that Israel does. Israel is a nation, with a seat in the UN, has the most poweful nations on its side, and with its nuclear weapons I damn well do hold it to higher account than Hamas. If you (I forget your name, but you know who) think that is anti-semitic then good for you, but no one else agrees with you, and you just sound like an idiot. Like the sort of person who uses race/religion to hide behind.
Now you carry on and blurt out your far-right bullshit, carry on and support Israeli aggression, but mark my words, it is not helping the situation, and in 10,20 or 40 years innocent people will still be dying as a result of Israels short sighted policy. Yes Hamas are short sighted too, but as i explained, Israel are the ones who must be held to higher account for their actions. If you dont see that, youre in denial.
Bill Buchanan: Yawn yawn yawn. Fuck off then loser. Go chuck a waste bin through a window in a McDonalds. That’ll make you feel better.
Has diddums got his dummy back now?
John Connor: Oh for fucks sake. Another glue sniffer. What is it with you tosspots?
It doesn’t matter how many people died. The missiles should NOT be being fired. Israel had pulled out of Gaza, so why were rockets being fired in the first place?
The reason many of these missiles miss (luckily) is because the bearded inbred fucking morons firing them don’t know how to aim them.
As for working for the BBC, do you like rent boys?
John Connor | 07.01.09 – 9:40 pm | #
It is Hamas’ use of civilian areas that has killed innocents, not the Israeli campaign. Your viewpoint is too simplistic and at odds with the Geneva conventions.
“Fuck off then loser”
“bearded inbred fucking morons”
Charming. I don’t think I can rise to the level of this debate.
“I suspect your call to “back that statement up with examples” is an ipreferred attempt to irritate.”
No. it was a simple question.