You probably don’t know that Slovenia (that little country between Austria and Croatia) has just experienced its lowest recorded temperatures – 47 degrees below zero. Even were it the case that other news sources had no interest in this information due to global warming enthusiasm, the BBC is supposed to compensate for the innate bias of non-public funded media- so it is usually argued. In fact, the Beeb is married to the Met, which does a nice line in giving global warming advice (but is rather poorer at getting the weather right). Corporate socialism you see- shielded, funded, its interests well and truly vested in convenient paradigms and worldviews. This is also known as b-i-a-s, and it’s what this website is concerned with.
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Meh, if global warming gets any worse we will all die of hypothermia! 🙂
Mailman
um, global warming is actually referring to the warming of the ice caps, and the seas. it is a paradox of the term that in fact some places may experience colder temperatures as our climate changes. ergo, a record cold temp does neither disprove, nor prove, global warming.
So, global warming is not really global then, is it, if the land masses are not included. Does it include thickening ice caps, can we have global thickening too please? All one vast scam.
The average temperature of the entire planet (thats globally) is increasing. However, some areas are actually getting colder with the way the climate is changing.
David Vance,
The real problem is “global thickening” on the issue, no?
We keep hearing that weather and climate are two different things not to be confused, and that local and global are different and not to be confused, fine! However the Met Office has taken to predicting the near term (1-3 month) climate/weather and getting it wrong pretty much for the last 3 years. Every setback in their seasonal predictions are tempered by saying they’ve predicted the near weather with accuracy.
They are safe because the BBC will never call them to task for their errors, however, I’m sure the BBC will make them seem like scientific geniusus if they finally get a lucky streak.
It’s the ratchet effect that is the point here, every flood in a flood plain, drought in a drought zone, is breathlessly reported as out of the ordinary, usually accompanied with some specious speculation from an environment editor from the Guardian or Roger Harrabin saying “We can only expect more of this!”
The recent relatively unusual cold wave is under-reported, and when it is mentioned, it is brushed away as being caused by the La Nina ocean cooling effect, which they claim is merely masking underlying trends. Funnily enough the El Nino pacific warming that caused the 1998 global heat spike was never prominently mentioned in the same terms at the time.
BTW The artic ice cap cover have recovered quickly this year back 1979 levels I dont remember the BBC mentioning it anywhere.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_606433.html
a record cold temp does neither disprove, nor prove, global warming.
James Morrison | 11.01.09 – 7:16 pm |
But this is exactly the point – single stats like this neither disprove nor prove an overall change in the trend of world climate. However, during a particularly mild/warm spell, single stats become top BBC news stories.
Incidentally, did anyone hear the nature piece on (the awful) Five Live Drive the other day about the migratory habits of Bewick swans? The big claim was that these swans are migrating here in lesser numbers from Siberia due to areas closer to northern Russia being warmer than they used to be (yes, the words “climate change” were echoed several times, just in case us idiots forgot).
Barely a single mention of the artic weather that has been gripping most of Europe for a fortnight though.
Even the seemingly innocuous staement ‘the Earth is getting warmer’ is miseading, unless it is accompanied by citation, timescale and context.
These are, unfortunately attributes that are so often lacking in the statements of Global Warming proponents.
Well okay this debate is a scientific one, and ultimatley one that no-one can answer with certainty. However it is a fact that the ice caps are melting, no one disputes that. The most popular explanation by scientists is that this is happening as a result of the green house gases getting trapped in our atmosphere. And the most likely explanation of these gases is that they are the result of man made activities (factories, cars).
After that, it gets a little complicated.
We are getting colder comrades,throw another greenie on the fire.
I was in New York for business in March and was surprised to see pack ice in Baffin Bay as we came down by Canada because the week before Al Beeb was running stories about the Northern Passage being open for the first time in a gazillion years!
Mailman
Can someone explain how cold masks the hotness that is global warming?
Mailman
The trouble with global warming as it stands is that it doesnt seem to yield any useful predictions, short, medium or long term.
The global warming, is first and foremost a reference to the polar ice caps. And the warming of them affects the climate elsewhere on the planet. Which is why the cold in one place may be the result of the warming up somewhere else. I’m not a scientist, but I know this much…
I see that the local non-scientists are off again on their hysterical ignorant rant.
Climate change involves (a) fluctuations in general, (b) more extreme fluctuations in the current situation in particular.
I know that this is difficult for people with little grasp of graph paper to follow – note the huge issue they have with the difference between weather and climate – but why exhibit your ignorance for all to see and ridicule? Scam, indeed: what laughable ignorant hysteria.
Maybe this is a global conspiracy by the Jews?
Joe, we are on a loser here. Most people don’t have the brain to distinguish between geography and geology, and yet think they can spout ‘clever’ stuff about science.
Oh, such wisdom. Such profound knowledge. We are truly blessed.
“However it is a fact that the ice caps are melting, no one disputes that.”
Hardly scientific when,in fact many do.Go and have a look at Climate Audit os Watts Up With That.
James Morrison:
Well okay this debate is a scientific one, and ultimatley one that no-one can answer with certainty. However it is a fact that the ice caps are melting, no one disputes that”
Well yes some do –
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/dan-gainor/2008/09/18/oops-nets-wrong-warming-arctic-ice-still-there
and that was back in September. We all know how cold it has been since.
You would rather believe news from a website called ‘newsbusters’ over a whole load of other news channels and media sources?
So, it’s polar warming we have? Good.
NO,
The climate always changes. Even us non-scientists know that. However when the global warming alarmist brigade insist that AGW is the driver of this change, but cannot prove it, then why should we believe a word they say, graphs or no graphs?
“The most popular explanation by scientists is that this is happening as a result of the green house gases getting trapped in our atmosphere. And the most likely explanation of these gases is that they are the result of man made activities (factories, cars).”
OK folks schools out.
Sorry James Morrison you are wrong. Satellite photos indicate that the polar icecap is increasing and so far this year is back to 1979 levels. Various websites confirm this (not just one you may not agree with)and recent evidence indicates that the Antarctic is also now recovering. The peak of so-called warming was 2 years ago, and overall world temperatures are now falling. This year a number of places which have never experienced snow have suffered, as they did last year. People who make money out of the global warming myths are in denial about all of this, but evidence is now against them. Its something that the BBC will keep on the boil though, it’s their religion.
The splendid Prof. Em. Philip Stott described our efforts to combat Global Warming (as it was known back then) as being like trying to stop the violence in Glasgow on a Friday night by shutting down one bar.
James Morrison:
You would rather believe news from a website called ‘newsbusters’
Oh, so the name of the website is the important thing. How very scientific!
Sorry, I’m doing my Dreary Oxford impersonation by doing lots of little individual postings in a row.
Of course, they’re not as clever.
Funny how the record temperatures in Europe in Summer of 2003 were specifically used as irrefutable proof of global warming yet when same areas are freezing our nuts off the criteria is magically changed.
Ever wonder why you dont see sattelite maps of the ice caps now on the BBC/MSM?
Hmmm, I wonder why that could be?
Could it be that ice levels both south and north are way up from their cyclical lows?
But hey if it doesnt fit the agenda it doesnt get airtime does it!
The proof will be this summers sea ice lows, so lets see if the BBC sends its non scientist propagandists out this summer to the North, I note that the usual rush to the south has not yet happened and one can only surmise that the antarctic is not playing along with the AGW/MMCC melting narrative(how very dare it).
I can just picture the scene at the BBC ‘science’ dept, can we show lots of melting? no! well can we fake it by showing old footage? no! well can we ignore it and hope the proles dont notice? yeah thatll do nicely!
The real truth is the climate change models are inaccurate and the scientists know that. All of the data produced by the research done over the last few years is in doubt as to its validity as much of the cooling we’ve had over the last few years wasn’t predicted.
However, the environmentalists have lost the plot the moment they allowed the corrupt politicians to jump on board. The public see climate change as no more than a scam to get money out of people.
1. We should be looking for alternative fuels to simply get out of allowing the middle east and Russia to bring us to our knees at any time they choose.
2. Taking care of our environment and being as clean as we reasonably can is also a good idea but this does not require people to be punished by fines or taxes.
3. Controlling the population and not providing aid to third would countries that don’t allow contraception for silly religious reasons or other should be encouraged.
4. We should look to control the UK population through restricting immigration and the use of the tax system to prevent people producing too many children.
James Morrison, you’re still not getting the point, which is, as Stuart explains clearly above, about BBC BIAS. If, as you claim, that ‘weather incidents’ do not relate to ‘global warming’, why does the BBC take such nauseating delight every time it rains or floods in August, or (not this year obviously) is a bit sunny in January?
(I’ll give you a clue – because they’re utter wankers who have nothing but contempt for their audience)
Anyone remembers the lot of noise about “ozone holes”? And the Montreal protocol that followed and the subsequent banning of freons. Currently every deodorant is a small incendiary bomb. A few months ago there was a small note in the “New Scientist” that the new research had shown that there is no link between the levels of freons and ozone in the atmosphere. There is a NASA site showing the size of the ozone hole over the Antarctic. A few months ago it (the hole) was really huge. Now everybody is silent about it. It’s a non-news.
There’s an enthusiastic South African environmentalist, Lewis Pugh, who was going to kayak to the North Pole at the end of August 2008 to demonstrate just how far the ice had receded.
He gave loads of sound bites to the MSM before he went (most of which remain on the various websites) but we heard absolutely bugger all when he (predictably) failed to get closer than 600 miles to the North Pole. The Artic Ice Cap was actually much broader and thicker than he thought.
I predicted that he would fail, and suggested to friends that the attempt would have a certain comedic value, but it’s as if the failure of the whole expedition has now been shamelessly airbrushed away, leaving only the breathless soundbites that marked the start of his mission.
The whole misguided jaunt can be seen as a perfect metaphor for the whole AGW industry, most starkly in its inability to accept news that contradicts its orthodoxy.
(If you’ve an few finutes free, just Google “Lewis Pugh Kayak” and see the story for yourselves.)
please refer to the followers of the Goreacle as Warmaholics
Sceptical Steve – I’ve just googled as you recommended, I was very amused by the Wikipedia entry. I’d heard the story before but interested to see that he had to give up after only a third of the way there.
James Morrison:
You would rather believe news from a website called ‘newsbusters’ over a whole load of other news channels and media sources?
James Morrison | 11.01.09 – 8:17 pm
How about this: http://www.adn.com/news/environment/story/555283.html
.
Just in case James Morrison is still reading, the following is (astonishingly) from that bastion of US Leftism, The Huffington Post.
With his enthusiasm for hard science, Mr Morrison might care to follow up some of the statements it contains.
He might then begin to question why the handful of cranks and non-scientists who set the BBC’s agenda have been allowed to get away with it for so long.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-ambler/mr-gore-apology-accepted_b_154982.html
Coming to a neighbourhood near you The Food Champions. Inspectors are going to visit homes to advise on portion control and use by dates -all in the name of Climate Change.
Next,your plasma TVs down the tubes.
Stuart: “But this is exactly the point – single stats like this neither disprove nor prove an overall change in the trend of world climate. However, during a particularly mild/warm spell, single stats become top BBC news stories.”
Stuart, do you have any examples where the BBC have used single stats to ‘prove’ global warming?
“The most popular explanation by scientists is that this is happening as a result of the green house gases getting trapped in our atmosphere.”
Popular with whom? The BBC. And when you say scientists. Do you mean all scientists or just the 11 or so who wrote the IPCC report chapter on the CO2 = Global Warming link?
This is a problem with all AGW claims – they use the word “scientists” -as if to mean all scientists – when we know that some of the most expert climatologists doubt the link. So really you should say “its popular with some scientists” especially the ones are getting a great deal of funding from governments.
An excellent blog
http://antigreen.blogspot.com/
Stuart | 11.01.09 – 7:43 pm
“The big claim was that these swans are migrating here in lesser numbers from Siberia due to areas closer to northern Russia being warmer than they used to be…”
Stuart, see how warm it’s been in Siberia recently!
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081215/118857527.html
dear god, the stupidity of some of the posters on this thread is shocking. tell me, do you just see a cause that is generally considered ‘liberal’ or ‘left wing’ and decide to rally against it? or maybe you just believe the exact opposite of EVERYTHING that the BBC say? in doing this you conveniently ignore that most, if not all, the other media stations/papers say the same thing. this is like one giant conspiracy theory you’re trying to sell. its funny how people fall into trends; like if you support the war, you also happen to favour torture. or if you hate the Beeb, you also deny climate change. this isn’t independent thinking people, this is acting like sheep. think! for yourselves!
You can be sure than whenever a AGW thread is posted, Nearly Oxfordian will come on at a statistically significant probability to denounce a whole load of people he has never met, seen or heard, for their supposed scientific illiteracy.
From the blatantly unscientific guff he writes, some kind of rebuke is sorely needed.
Dreary Obnoxious. Rather than making a fool of yourself, go to climateaudit.org and read all about it. As a former statistician I could not do a better job than Steve.
You will learn that many people doing climate stats abuse regression, probably never even having heard the words “stochastic process”.
The whole point of the climate change careerists / alarmists is that they think they can predict future temperatures, when in reality we cannot even say whether temperatures in the recent past have gone up or down.
This is not scientific illiteracy as you call it, but a refusal to believe in superstition.
Many AGW proponents have a lot in common with the fools that think they predict (and hence beat) the stock market.
With the stock market, we see slow climbs and occasional (but NOT periodic) crashes, plenty of noise in between. With the climate, we see cooling trends, with occasional (but NOT periodic) warming, with lots of noise in between.
Interestingly, this pattern repeats at hugely different scales. With both there are random external events which both appear to have effects.
I have a PhD/research background, which if nothing else has given me a healthy scepticism for so much so-called science. Imagine asking the Royal Society to conduct a peer review on a paper that debunks AGW. Have you seen the junk they have produced on geo-engineering (with additional goading from the Economist)?
For about 40-odd years there were THOUSANDS of papers, books, studies and trials that showed that stress and bad diet caused stomach ulcers. All were peer reviewed, all were wrong.
There where once ice fairs on the Thames in the early 1800s but none since. Thermometer records since show an increase in temperature, but most of it happening before the rise in C02.
NO – given your vast scientific experience perhaps you could explain why this is?
Little Jimmy Morrison,
We are still waiting for the SCIENCE that you keep waffling about like Anne Elk in the Monty Python Dinosaur sketch.
As for the media,they don’t know shit from Shinola.
James Morrison | 11.01.09 – 10:15 pm |
I’m sorry – but that is no answer to the questions I posed earlier.
Oh David you simply must listen to the first hour of Five Live’s ‘The Weekend News’ 8pm today. Some American crackpot has calculated the carbon footprint of conducted a google search. And alledgely the storage and retrieve of data now leaves a great carbon footprint than the global aviation industry.
The loon then decided hawked his website before suggesting that websites will soon carry environment terms, and no doubt carbon offsetting.
Ridiculous.
“this isn’t independent thinking people, this is acting like sheep. think! for yourselves!”
James Morrison | 11.01.09 – 10:15 pm
laughs out loud
“Coming to a neighbourhood near you, The Food Champions. ”
How many brownie points do I get for re-using a ham bone to make pea soup?
The only reason AGW is political is because it is – it is not science.
So James Morrison – why are you so sure that AGW is real? Give me the names of the 2,000 scientists who according to Al Gore say that CO2 is causing catastrophic global warming. Or perhaps you could give me a link to a website that names 100 or more of these scientists? And I mean scientists not political commentators.