36 Responses to Need I say more? Hat-tip to Pete Moore on ATW

  1. Mailman says:
    January 21, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    I wonder who the who is?

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  2. Jason says:
    January 22, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Anytime the Beeb says something like “has been described by some as…” or “some are saying that…” you can bet your as that the “some” they are referring to are themselves.

    The BBC are an absolutely disgraceful organization with no sense of decency, no respect for objectivity and, it appears, no idea that rational people actually notice this stuff.

    How about we point out to them that the BBC has been “described by some” as the Pravda of Britain.

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  3. Robert S. McNamara says:
    January 22, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Yeah, ‘some’ just means it was uttered by some hemp-suited shit in the canteen in White City, whom the BBC ‘journalist’ overheard whilst he was in there buying his ethnic food.

    ‘Oh, that’s good!’ he’ll’ve thought to himself in a smug, self-regarding fashion whilst pushing his spicy goat rectum Kuku Paka around his plate. ‘Israel of Africa! Brilliant. Wait till I include that in my latest propaganda piece. That’ll teach those hook-nosed, gold-grubbing bastards to’ve defied the Führer ‘s plans!’

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  4. Martin Adamson says:
    January 22, 2009 at 12:48 am

    I just googled it – the phrase had only ever been used once before, in the Jerusalem Post.

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1186557411440

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  5. Martin says:
    January 22, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Yes. The “so some might say” is a phrase used on a regular basis by the truly vile Nicki Campbell who wheels it out to make anti American, Anti English or anti Jewish comments.

    He gets away with murder by simply adding that sentence onto something that is clearly HIS OWN VIEW.

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  6. frankos says:
    January 22, 2009 at 1:04 am

    Some might say he is the worst, most biased interviewer I’ve had the misfortune to hear on radio or TV–not necessarily my own view though

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  7. pounce says:
    January 22, 2009 at 1:32 am

    Before i go to bed here is a snippet from this weeks Janes;

    Page 16 (21 Jan 09)
    IDF may be using DIME in GAZA by Mohhamed Najib Ramallah.

    ……
    Us designed White Phosphorus Shells(M825A1) Have also been used as a smokescreen to help mask the movement of ground troops. The system is a purely airburst smoke projectile that is not meant for anti personnel use. Its smokeburst lasts for 5-10 minutes and unlike previous versions of the system is not meant to fragment-dividing instead into wedges of Phosphrous -impregnated felt.

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  8. Martin says:
    January 22, 2009 at 1:46 am

    Third-party attribution is a totally legitimate way of broaching opinions whilst maintaining an air of impartiality. But only if it meets two criteria:

    1. The third party has to actually be an existent group (not just the guy writing the article).

    2. The appraisal / assessment has to be directly relevant to the subject at hand.

    This fails on both counts. The BBC was simply looking for an easy way to say “Rwandans are the baddies”. Fail.

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  9. lucklucky says:
    January 22, 2009 at 3:41 am

    BBC is not news, it is a political actor.

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  12. Philip says:
    January 22, 2009 at 7:38 am

    ‘Some say’ – that old hack standby that usually decodes to:

    ‘Some (of the voices in my head/Congo gangster/an arbitrary bloke I met in the street/my wife/some might not/Pali mortar operative/p*ss poor journalist who isn’t able or bothered to be able to substbantiate his or her story) say’ is used very often at al-Beeb to make sly digs at its enemies.

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  13. AndrewSouthLondon says:
    January 22, 2009 at 9:33 am

    I dare say “some people think the BBC is biased”

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  14. DB says:
    January 22, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Biodegradable | 22.01.09 – 3:15 am

    Know what you mean. I posted the screengrab of Anita Anand in an Obama hat in the comments here on Monday. Nobody seemed interested so I sent it to Guido.

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  15. Jason says:
    January 22, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    Israeli warning on Gaza tunnels

    “Israel has warned of renewed military strikes on Gaza if tunnels used for smuggling in goods from Egypt are reopened by Palestinians.”

    No bias there then is there! The article just drips with the usual take-the-Palestinian-word-for-it and don’t-take-the-Israeli-word-for-it BBC bias. The BBC is nothing less than an arm for Palestinian propaganda. Sickening!

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  16. deegee says:
    January 22, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    That Rwanda has been described as the Israel of Africa should be a compliment. Despite a rather blood soaked history both nations have attempted to rise above it and create a modern state cf. the Palestinians.

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  17. deegee says:
    January 22, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    The BBC employs a technique on its website where the provocative link links to a blander article.

    War crimes?
    Did Israel commit war crimes in the recent Gaza conflict?     leads to a more neutral Were war crimes committed in Gaza?

    Donatella Rovera of Amnesty International is given 21 secs to make the allegation. But Dr. Hugo Slim is given 2mins 36 secs to spank the interviewer. Unfortunately he doesn’t shoot the interviewer down when he repeats the old chestnut about Gaza being one of the most densely populated places on Earth but he does say that proportionality can’t be measured by relative numbers of casualties.

    Unfortunately but predictably the charge that Hamas were guilty of war crimes is never raised.
    * Every rocket aimed indiscriminately at civilian centres.
    * Every time military activity uses civilian dwellings, mosques, hospitals, etc. for cover.
    * Every time civilians were encouraged to act as human shields.
    * Every attack in civilian clothes
    * Every time Hamas employed children as lookouts, decoys and suicide bombers.

    All should be investigated as war crimes. I guess the heroic BBC reporters in Gaza must have missed it.

    BTW is Bowen still stuck in Egypt? The Israelis wouldn’t let him in to Gaza and neither would the Egyptians.

    I guess his reputation preceded him

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  18. Jake says:
    January 22, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    After watching the BBC the last 2 weeks I would rather get my information from a roll of toilet paper.

    At least I know that its not full of Sh*t before I use it

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  19. Anonymous says:
    January 22, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    I can’t see what all the fuss is about regarding this ‘Israel of Africa’ remark.

    The BBC were alluding to words first used by David Kimche, a former deputy head of Mossad and director of Israel’s foreign ministry.

    There’s nothing anti-Israel about that.

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  20. deegee says:
    January 22, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Keep an eye on this man. He doesn’t have bright future at the BBC or possibly in Gaza when Hamas finds out what he is writing.

    Gaza ruins pose questions for Hamas
    Destruction and frustration in Gaza
    By Quil Lawrence
    BBC News, Gaza City

    Hamas claimed they won and everyone he meets claims to be a brave mujahideen but Quil doesn’t believe them.

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  21. Biodegradable says:
    January 22, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    The BBC were alluding to words first used by David Kimche, a former deputy head of Mossad and director of Israel’s foreign ministry.
    Anonymous | 22.01.09 – 4:46 pm

    And how do you, or we know that?
    Is David Kimche quoted in the article?

    ❓

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  22. Ricky Martin says:
    January 22, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    Here is a story at the Telegraph online that the Popular Front for the Liberation of Lies/ BBC, is bound to miss or not report.

    Several years ago, the BBC spread the Jenin massacre lie and was partly culpable over rising antisemitism in Western Europe at the time. Then, they claimed 10,000 Palestinians were “massacred” but later evidence proved this too be an outrageous lie. Despite this, the Popular Front have NEVER apologised.

    Now the PFLL/BBC are doing it again. This systematic lie machine is designed to create a cumulative image of cruelty and inhumanity. It’s part of the BBC’s nasty, insidious trickery and that of other liars who rant at the so-called “peace” rallies about apartheid, Nazism, ghettoes, concentration camps in a cunning attempt to delegitimise the Israeli state by comparing it to failed states like Nazi Germany & Rwanda, whilst spreading hatred.

    ” Israel has seized on claims the number of people killed in Gaza has been exaggerated. The Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera quoted Gazans claiming that less than 600 people had died in the 22-day attack, far fewer than the 1,300 reported by Palestinian health officials.

    “It’s possible that the death toll in Gaza was 500 or 600 at the most, mainly youths aged 17 to 23 who were enlisted by Hamas • who sent them to their deaths,” the newspaper quoted a doctor at the main Shifa hospital as stating.

    Other residents told the newspaper Hamas gunmen had used medical facilities to organise and co-ordinate attacks.

    Israeli officials emailed the report around the world and a military officer condemned Hamas as “monstrous” in its use of civilians to cover its armed activities. “Entire families in Gaza lived on top of a barrel of explosives for months without knowing,” said Brigadier Eyal Eisenberg.

    Israel has not, however, formally disputed the widely published total but it points to the vast over-reporting of deaths during an incursion in the West Bank town of Jenin in 2002, when an estimate of more than 1,500 dead was revised to lower than 100.

    International agencies do not dispute the Palestinian death toll, though no outside assessment has been completed. “The figures are good enough for us to quote at the moment but we clearly state where they come from,” said Anne-Sophie Bonefield of the International Committee of the Red Cross. “We will for sure have to carry out independent verification.”

    The controversy arose as Israel debates the outcome of the 22-day Operation Cast Lead. At the resumption of campaigning for the country’s general election next month, parties squabbled over credit for the Gaza campaign yesterday.

    Polls show the chief beneficiary of the war was opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu, a hawkish ex-prime minister who promises to take a tough line against Hamas.

    Political dividends from Operation Cast Lead for parties within the ruling coalition were mixed. The smaller Labour party of Ehud Barak, the defence minister, has recorded a bounce that has not offset a slump in the standing of Kadima, led by Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister.

    The latest opinion poll released gave Mr Netanyahu’s Likud 35 seats, up two and Miss Livni’s Kadima 25, down two and Mr Barak’s Labour 15, unchanged. It was the first double-digit lead for Mr Netanyahu over Kadima in the race for seats in the 120-member Knesset for weeks.

    Pundits generally applaud Mr Barak’s performance as defence minister in overseeing an operation that avoided the mistakes of Israel’s disastrous offensive against Hizbollah in Lebanon in 2006.”

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  23. Martin / riverScrap says:
    January 23, 2009 at 12:20 am

    Hmmm. Some of these comments are quite disturbing tbh.

    The BBC is a left-wing organisation – sure, most people appreciate that. Calling it a lie/propaganda machine is going too far though.

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  24. Theo B says:
    January 23, 2009 at 2:20 am

    The Economist have called the tutsis ‘the “jews” of Africa’ (sub.). Maybe BBC was building and elaborating on that ‘theme’.

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  25. deegee says:
    January 23, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Maybe BBC was building and elaborating on that ‘theme’.
    Theo B | 23.01.09 – 1:25 am | #

    Maybe a lazy writer picked up an idea that was fairly peripheral to most of the text. The headline continued through all the versions despite its irrelevance to the main idea that Rwandan troops have entered the Democratic Republic of Congo controversially but with the consent of DR Congo and the UN.

    It seems that BBC subeditors didn’t pick up this news report with additional analytic fluff and change the headline. I put it down to incompetence rather than agenda.

    This isn’t to say that the BBC isn’t frequently agenda driven. Just, perhaps, not in this case.

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  26. Ricky Martin says:
    January 23, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Martin / riverScrap | Homepage | 22.01.09 – 11:25 pm | #

    Martin – the evidence is overwhelming. Just look at the hard facts and data resourced by the many diligent contributors on this site alone.

    The BBC prefers to use unreliable propaganda from two Norwegian doctors – members of the Maoist Red brigades, UNWRA, Hamas, Hezbollah etc over that of a democratically accountable government. The Balen Report is still not published. And why?

    The BBC claim repeatedly as does Benn, Galloway etc that Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza. So what? In 1933, the Nazis took power by popular vote in Germany. Hitler was elected! Would that mean Goebbels only spoke the truth?

    Why has the BBC neglected to mention the cruelty and excess enacted on fellow Gazans by these mafiosi style thugs – from knee capping to crucifixion? Why have they been sanctified as victims along with the innocents for whom they have caused so much pain?

    The BBCs great worldwide reputation for probity and honesty partly stems from their rebuttal of such specious totalitarian propaganda in the 1930s & 1940s. Today they act as compliant accessories, hardly questioning the source or using critical skills when unpacking it. Today, that reputation is no longer trusted worldwide.

    The selective use of information to further an untruth is a lie.

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  27. Anonymous says:
    January 23, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Biodegradable | 22.01.09 – 5:31 pm

    And how do you, or we know that?

    I know that cos it said so in the Jerusalem Post. So it must be true.

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  28. Biodegradable says:
    January 23, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Theo B | 23.01.09 – 1:25 am

    In which case there’s no doubt that the intention of the BBC was to paint Israel as the perpetrators of genocide. Leaflets?

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  29. Sue says:
    January 23, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    Just waiting for:
    Karen Matthews and Michael Donovan: The Israelis of Dewsbury

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  30. David Preiser (USA) says:
    January 23, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Martin / riverScrap | Homepage | 22.01.09 – 11:25 pm |

    The BBC is a left-wing organisation – sure, most people appreciate that. Calling it a lie/propaganda machine is going too far though.

    There’s been plenty of evidence provided here about the BBC lying and allowing through propaganda from certain quarters .

    You’ll have to address the evidence before you can say such a thing.

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  31. Biodegradable says:
    January 23, 2009 at 6:51 pm


    I know that cos it said so in the Jerusalem Post. So it must be true.
    Anonymous | 23.01.09 – 11:35 am

    I know it’s in the JPost because I posted a link to the article and a good part of it in one of my comments.

    The point is that nobody reading the BBC piece would know that, neither would they know in which context the JPost article used the comparison.

    BTW, please find a name to use, even if it’s only something like “Anonymous #8764597865”, otherwise you Anonymice all look the same to me.

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  32. Biodegradable says:
    January 23, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    I know that cos it said so in the Jerusalem Post. So it must be true.
    Anonymous | 23.01.09 – 11:35 am

    I know that, and you know that, but my point is that nobody reading the BBC piece would know that, and the context of the comparison made in the JPost article certainly doesn’t come across in the BBC piece.

    And by the way, please find a name to use, even if it’s only something like “Anonymous #516541”, otherwise all you Anonymice look the same to me.

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  33. Biodegradable says:
    January 23, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    Oooops!

    Sorry for the double post 🙁

    Sorry for the double post 🙁

    Sorry for the double post 🙁

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  34. Martin says:
    January 24, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    ***Ricky Martin said:
    The BBC claim repeatedly as does Benn, Galloway etc that Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza. So what? In 1933, the Nazis took power by popular vote in Germany. Hitler was elected! Would that mean Goebbels only spoke the truth?****

    I don’t really understand your point. By saying “so what” you are basically confirming the validity of the BBC’s selection of words.

    This is all about context. Yes, the BBC says Hamas was democratically elected – precisely because it was (unfortunately) – but it does so in a wider context of also discussing their terrorist atrocities.

    Simply using the phrase “democratically elected” does not mean you are giving an endorsement.

    ***Why has the BBC neglected to mention the cruelty and excess enacted on fellow Gazans by these mafiosi style thugs – from knee capping to crucifixion?***

    A simple search of Google reveals that the BBC has not failed to mention such crimes:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7241538.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7059334.stm

    After reading those articles I would reiterate my belief that the BBC is too soft on Hamas, and that in general it pursues a biased pro-Palestinian agenda. I think the watered-down tone of those articles clearly show that the BBC is delicate in its criticism of Hamas, giving just one example of the network’s multi-faceted liberal bias.

    But to imply as many on this board do that the BBC is somehow in cahoots with Hamas is just absurd. We should discuss the BBC’s bias without resorting to hyperbole.

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  35. Biodegradable says:
    January 25, 2009 at 1:38 am

    Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza.

    Actually it isn’t.

    Hamas was elected to the “Palestinian Parliament” along with Fatah. It wasn’t elected to rule Gaza.

    What Hamas did was to seize power in Gaza through a violent and barbaric fratricidal armed coup thus creating, as it were, a break-away “state” seperate from the internationally recognised “Palestinian Authority”.

    A distinction that the media and Hamas supporters conveniently ignore.

    There is nothing remotely legal or democratic about Hamas’s rule in Gaza.

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  36. Nearly Oxfordian says:
    January 30, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    Calling it a lie/propaganda machine is going too far though

    Oh sure, let’s not speak the truth by any means, you sad specimen. It might upset your antisemitic masters at Al Beeb.

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