I see that the BBC is giving great prominence to the “Binyam Mohamad is innocent” story, this time focusing on the Miliband/US angle. The bit that I find interesting is the line “Binyam Mohamed, an Ethiopian who lived in the UK, believes US papers detailing his treatment support his claims.” But hang on, that is not quite the full picture, is it? Mr Mohamed IS an Ethiopian, and he is one who illegally entered this country in 1994. The way in which this law-breaker is being presented as some sort of dyed-in-the-wool Brit is staggering, just as his totally implausible stories as to how he ended up in Pakistan in AQ training camps are also being carefully sanitised. The BBC loves to run these stories, always carefully sympathising with the alleged terrorist. You can be sure this one will be on Question Time tonight. Maybe Binyam could be given an honorary knighthood?
ETHIOPIAN BRITISH
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BritishSquaddie | 05.02.09 – 7:25 pm |
Exactly.
In a different era I was a mercenary in the Dhofar region of Oman. You see things that people like James (above) will never experience or comprehend.
To them a bad day is waking up with a hangover.
On grounds of health ‘n’ safety, the Ethiopian should not be allowed back into the UK. The probability of him reverting to his natural, murderous condition is greater than that of harm from passive smoking or of uttering the forbidden ‘g’ word.
This is a remarkable story – the BBC had convinced me that this man was British. Of course, what he was doing in that part of the world is obvious.
James is truly a “useful idiot”
“..the Jean Charles de Menezes incident, which just goes to show that blind trust in the police is never a good thing, especially when it comes to using lethal force”
Total airhead. One day after London atrocities a bloke who looks like one of the suspects comes out of the suspects house and heads for the tube. Ring any bells for you James? Its not a matter of “blind trust” in the police. Its a tragic error which cost an innocent man his life, but I defy you, with the information then available to you, and the necessity to act, and a gun in your hand to protect the public, in a split second, to say you would have done anything different than to pull the trigger on Jean Charles.
Sorry, no lengthy debate and commission of enquiry, or discussion: you act or you don’t. The very observation that you think this is about “trust in the police” shows you have no experience of the real world and how it works to understand any of the issues here. A dreadful enditement of our educators.
The though of expanding this mockery of British Justice to all suspected terrorists is simple-minded and ridiculous to say the least.
TPO 7:43
One story I read was that he went to be cured of cannabis addiction.
Obviously the UK social services were not good enough.
Isn’t it strange how the lefties love going on about the rights of a person who stayed in Britain briefly – bit they don’t all get het up when things like this happen.
“Royal Marines refused a pint on return from Afghanistan after bar staff refuse military ID”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4443431/Royal-Marines-refused-a-pint-on-return-from-Afghanistan-after-bar-staff-refuse-military-ID.html
It makes you sick to see how the left (including the BBC) have managed to turn this country into a hell hole.
Jon 8:41
And funny that the left were happy to fight against Franco in the Spanish Civil War and Hitler in WW2.
What has changed ?
Some commentators above have made much about ‘Justice’.
Well here’s a salutary tale about the cost of ‘justice’
Bloody Sunday inquiry pays 14 lawyers more than £1m
Lawyers who have made more than £1 million from the Saville inquiry
Sir Christopher Clarke • Now a High Court judge • £4,488,266
Edwin Glasgow QC • £4,065,817
Alan Roxburgh • Junior counsel to the inquiry • £2,978,989
Cathryn McGahey • Junior counsel to the inquiry • £2,268,093
Bilal Rawat • Junior counsel to the inquiry • £2,203,633
Gerard Elias QC • Represented soldiers • £1,795,752
Allan Green QC • Represented soldiers • £1,522,441
Eilish McDermott • Senior counsel for victims’ families • £1,405,133
Arthur Harvey • Senior counsel for victims’ families • £1,326,426
David Bradly • Junior counsel for soldiers • £1,291,966
Barry J McDonald • Senior counsel for victims’ families • £1,203,275
Nicholas Griffin • Junior counsel for the Army • £1,195,062
David Lloyd Jones QC • Now a High Court judge • £1,095,966
Seamus Treacy • Now a Northern Ireland High Court judge • £1,008,703
And lastly Michael Mansfield has made £743,421 from the Saville inquiry into Bloody Sunday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/4520735/Bloody-Sunday-inquiry-pays-14-lawyers-more-than-1m.html
What a monumental waste of money.
Not on the BBC website yet. Wonder how they will cover it.
Grant – not to mention the more or less uniform support from Left-liberals for Nato to bombard the former Jugoslavia in support of Moslems.
a bloody waste of time, TPO.
Grant | 05.02.09 – 8:50 pm |
“In his speech to Labour’s conference in Bournemouth, Des Browne, the defence secretary, urged delegates to show their appreciation and gratitude for the efforts and sacrifices of Britain’s armed forces. He was met with muted applause. ”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article2558174.ece
This is what has changed – expect people to die for you and then stab them in the back.
To all posters since my last post.
Oh, so true. Spot on ,well said !
A hat tip to libertus for raising this in an earlier thread!
Oh no, really, you shouldn’t..
a bloody waste of time, TPO.
David Vance | Homepage | 05.02.09 – 9:07 pm |
And that too.
Jon | 05.02.09 – 9:17 pm |
I attended my first Calgary Stampede parade this year. People from all over the world take part. When the Canadian Armed Forces marched past every on stood and applauded, many cheered loudly and some had tears in their eyes.
What a difference to the shabby scum who run Britain today and I include the BBC in that.
Jon
What did you expect – the average Labour party member nowadays is a toe-rag public sector parasite that has never done a decent days work in their lives – Nye Bevin would be spinning in his grave …
libertus 9:36
Ok, hat tip to you !
Just how does one go about getting into Blighty illegally anyway? I mean he must’ve really had to’ve gone out of his way.
I wonder what the penalty for going down the illegal route was? A few grand off his benefits and one less bedroom in his large free house maybe.
That’s enough to radicalise anyone and make them travel thosands of miles to train in guerilla and terrorist warfare, and then endeavour to kill and maim our and our allies’ fighting men and women.
The TOADY show is going into overdrive trying to portray the Ethiopian terrorist as an innocent Brit abroad!
A heavily edited Westminster debate followed with a Labour MP describing the terrorist as “my constituent” WTF?
Is he living in her constituancy now, does he have a vote, is he paying council tax?
TOADY editing to give the false impression that nearly everyone thought this terrorist trouble maker was a victim and British resident, no mention of his criminal record or the fact he conned his way into the UK in the first place and then he left to go on a jihad training spree!
I have seldom been so angry hearing the libdem/labour MPs whine and moan about his yuman rites and just one Tory spoke out(or at least thats what TOADY edited it to look like.
I hope and pray that the MPs who are pushing for this terrorist to come here are ‘outed’ come election time, I hope someone lets the voter know just who agitated for this foreign terrorist to come to the UK so he can cause trouble and rake in the millions of pounds that this government so freely spreads around to people who hate and despise us.
The BBC are pushing so hard for this b*****d to be seen as an innocent British ‘resident’ the question is why? our squaddies are dying and coming home disfigured and destroyed in body and spirit and the BBC preaches for and praises a terrorist whose fellow terrorists are busy doing the killing and maiming of our Troops!
I am so angry now, furious is a better word(a walk by the sea might calm me down), the BBC/NuLabour has just become my mortal enemy, one fine day I am going to get even with them, just one tiny act of revenge for their treachery and collusion with the very animals that laughed and cheered on 9/11 and 7/7!
I really have had it with the BBC traitors now, they have gone too far.
“I wonder what the penalty for going down the illegal route was?”
He wouldn’t have got his free bus ride to the immigration center.
Instead he would have to have walked their from the nearest police station after his immediate release.
BTW and further to my last post, what evidence is there that this terrorist was ever tortured? Just because he says he has been tortured doesnt make it a fact does it? Shouldnt the BBC be saying ‘allegedly tortured’ untill it can be proven, why does the BBC take certain allegations as fact before proof, why the partisan use of the word ‘alleged’?
Cognitive dissonace? very amusing James. Aren’t you embarrassed to be commenting on this site from the point of view of a limp-wristed Guardian reading sociology student and – guess what? – supporting the BBC? Doesn’t that tell you anything about:
a) yourself, and
b) the BBC?
As the great Atlas Shrugged says, “Think about it”
Cassandra 7:15
I understand how you feel and often I am too angry to post here.
I see the BBC as an evil institution and one of the most serious enemies of this country.
Why they support any terrorism against democratic countries is beyond me. I just cannot understand their mentality. I find the terrorists easier to understand.
So James, lets look at your Liberal / Left holier than thou post a little closer..
James | 05.02.09 – 6:47 pm | #
Field.Size | 05.02.09 – 5:36 pm
“And before anyone points out about due legal process etc, How much care and attention to legal process do terrorist bombers usually give to their victims before detonating their ball bearing, nails and rat poison laden bombs in close proximity?”
Pretty sure it’s our role to be better than them, by doing such things as keeping justice, due process etc
So who was it that cast us in the role of “being better than them”? Was it in a manifesto? Was there a referendum I missed? Perhaps I was out of the country when it was unanimously decided that our “role” was to stand like sheep while the wolves plotted and maneuvered to murder us in as many ways as they could think up, just so we could apply Justice in the aftermath. Justice and due process was something developed over time to deal with miscreants in our society that flouted the rules (the left are fond of rules, aren’t you James?) that govern a free and open people.
They were NOT designed for Terrorists who in all but few cases are DEAD once the crime they wished to commit has been carried out.
When someone decides that they want to kill and maim as many people as possible they have, as far as I am concerned, stepped out of the framework of a civilized society and should KNOW in no uncertain terms that the protection of the laws of the society they intend to attack have been withdrawn from them. A terrorist declares that he intends to kill people for his own political / religious (add here any other that may arise) reasons. The response of a caring and responsible Government should be to protect the lives of their own people with proactive measures. In other more unpalatable words (to folks like James) to kill the man (men, women) who intend to keep trying to kill us until they succeed, BEFORE they get the chance to. For anyone who does not like that idea it’s pretty simple.. do not get involved in terrorist activity that may cause you to be targeted.
“1 Trust OUR security forces to find and identify those planning and carrying out terrorism.
2 When duly indentified they should be KILLED, BEFORE they kill others, not brought before “due process””
We had that, it was the Jean Charles de Menezes incident, which just goes to show that blind trust in the police is never a good thing, especially when it comes to using lethal force. The though of expanding this mockery of British Justice to all suspected terrorists is simple-minded and ridiculous to say the least.
How blind are those that WILL not see? de Menezes was as much a victim of the TERRORIST attack as those unfortunate passengers of the trains blown up, passengers I might add, that the likes of you and the rest of the chattering classes have all but forgotten in the rush to bleed from the heart about one man.
Had the terrorist NOT attacked the traveling public in such a despicable way, the Police operation under exceptional circumstances and pressure would not have been required. The police were RESPONDING to the aftermath of an attack, forgive me for my naivety, but isn’t that part of the due process toward justice that you expect of our society? All the circumstance of that death arises DIRECTLY from the actions of the TERRORISTS, no one else.
And this post really does cram in those clichés, what about my human rights, the good old days, common sense, health and safety, i’m impressed
James | 05.02.09 – 6:47 pm | #
Finally James, and you may not want to read on..
I hope that in the next terrorist outrage that it is YOUR wife, should you have one, or YOUR children, should you have any, or YOUR parents, should they still live, or YOUR friends, should you have any that are ripped to shreds or burnt to death by the murderers.
After all, unlike the rest of us, you will be in the unique position of deriving comfort from the fact that “Due process and Justice” will be carried out in our “higher moral plane” society. It will not bring them back to you of course but you can wrap yourself in the comforting blanket of, well whatever it is that you think makes you superior to the rest of us.
Of course I must say that in reality I do not wish any such thing on you at all. I am still of the firm opinion that we should end the lives of those individuals that would try to kill us before they can, thus avoiding all the heartbreak, the suffering, the shattered lives and bodies that any amount of “Due process and Justice” is powerless to put right.
For God’s sake use a little empathy and intelligence and put yourself in the shoes of someone attacked. It isn’t ALWAYS going to be someone else you know, they are coming for you and yours as well, and in case you hadn’t noticed they don’t give a F*** about either due process OR justice.
FS
Field.Size,
Great post and well said my friend, very well said and I think you have put into words what many of us are thinking.
Cassandra | 06.02.09 – 8:57 am |
Thanks Cassandra, that means a lot coming from you. Your posts are always good and the one from 06.02.09 – 7:15 am
encapsulates my feelings for the BBC too perfectly to add anything.
FS
What idiots like James don’t realise is that these guys would think nothing about detonating a nuclear bomb in a British city. Or starting some sort of germ warfare. With FAR larger casualties than the incidents so far.
How do you dispense James’s lily-white “justice” if the courts are piles of ashes ?
FieldSize 8:34
One of the best posts I have read on this website. Just brilliant !
PS. I should point out that I am biased as a very good Turkish friend of mine was murdered by the PKK many years ago, so I find it difficult to be impartial.
‘Mail’
LITTLEJOHN – who unlike the BBC puts national security above the interests of this particular Ethiopian:
‘Jihadis checking into rehab? I say no,no,no!’
[Extract]:
“In 2001, he decided to move to Afghanistan. We are told, laughably, that this was to help him come to terms with his drug problem. Most people seeking rehab would check in to the Priory, not fly to the heroin capital of the world. I suppose it makes a change from going to a wedding or taking a computer course.
He was arrested a year later at Karachi airport, trying to board a plane to Britain on a forged passport and taken into custody, ending up at Gitmo on terrorism charges. Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
“He’s an Ethiopian, who was resident in Afghanistan and travelling through Pakistan when he was lifted. So why are British MPs and British lawyers talking about his ‘release and return’ to Britain?
“It’s not as if we haven’t got enough home-grown jihadists of our own. The real scandal is that we are expending time and money even considering his case. It has no place in a British courtroom.
“If Ethiopia, Afghanistan and Pakistan don’t want him, he can stay at Guantanamo Bay – which, contrary to European jubilation, won’t be closing any time soon – until he can find another country stupid enough to give him house room.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1136904/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Isnt-time-Golliwog-Squad-finally-grew-up.html {Scroll down}.
Field. Size: Spot on. What the leftie loons don’t get is that terrorists have no rights under the Geneva Convention.
During ‘war’ there is no duty on soldiers to shout warnings or give enemy soldiers a chance to surrender first. If that were a case then most British soldiers (and Allies) would be on war Crimes charges from WW2 onwards.
Terrorists simply need to be exterminated by any means humanly possible. Bomb, gun, gas, poison, nuke I don’t care. Just kill them all.
Funny thing about htese emotive truthes: the Euros demand that US MUST declare innocent the detainiees that the Europeans want, true or not so that:
1) They absolve themselves of 7 years of hyperventilating.
2) The get to blame America if so much as ONE of them engages in terror after their rendition flights to Europe.
3) If any of them ARE declared guilty of anything, the Europeans may decline them, even though they’ve been begging for them.
4) If they DO decline them, they get to continue carping about their detention, whether in Gitmo or not.
5) If they are released into the wild, and any one of them engage in terror, they may blame the US of wrongfully releasing them, or making them into terrorist by detaining terrorists.
The entire European sideshow is a costly distraction that will eventually get someone, perhaps even a whole city of people, killed. It’s only purpose is to give them a reason to emote and imagine that their constant complaining makes them anything other than irrelevant.
martin 1:38
Totally agree with you !
There’s a very amusing comment about this at the Spectator’s Coffee House this morning, from “Faceless Bureaucrat”:
The word around Whitehall today is that the Americans never made any such threat and that it was the FCO (Miliband himself?) that ‘intimated’ to the Judges concerned that the US would take such action. Why? – apparently this individual’s case has UK Govt. fingerprints on it (i.e. complicity in his arrest/detention), therefore potentially highly embarrassing for someone.
There is also some suggestion that this links into the Damian Green affair. Green had apparently been alerted to the issue and had exchanged e.mails with David Davis regarding it; hence the hurriedly arranged Police raid on his office.
Of course, rumours are only rumours…
Yes, obviously my bias is going to make me like this one, but there are certain details to the case that might lead one to the conclusion that this “British” person was originally picked up by, and moved around under the authority of, the UK. Never mind that Milliband knows perfectly well that something like this isn’t going to put a serious dent into US/UK relations. So he’s grandstanding for some reason or other.
I don’t know about the Damian Green angle, though. That doesn’t really add up.
Or, maybe there is something to it?
Torture allegations and UK-US relations
David Davis, the former Shadow Home Secretary, is demanding that ministers make a statement about whether Britain was complicit in the torture of a British resident held at Guantanamo Bay and whether the American government has threatened to withdraw intelligence co-operation with Britain if details of the case are revealed.
I wonder what inside info Nick Robinson will accidentally reveal as this goes forward?
What has got into David Davis, though? The man in question is not British and wasn’t even resident in Britain at the time.
I love the mischevious use of the description of our Ethiopean wannabe terrorist as a “British resident” Its a standard Beeb “cloaking device” to describe people according to the place where they were living, as in “Binyam Mohamed, from Birmingham..” instead of “from Ethiopea”.
His residing in Britain – the anodyne misinformation – “British resident” – is a blatant attemt to mislead the public. Resident doesn’t only been “he lived here at one time – illegally” One of the qualifyers for entitlement to NHS care, for example, is that you are “usually resident” (enables them to disown Brits that have retired to Spain). So being a resident implies much more than merely hiding here illegally.
Words matter, they are essential equipment with which to tell the truth, but the BBC use them disgracefully to insinuate lies.
I hear tell on QT, Shami Ciabatta was incandescent with rage on being questioned about our Binyam. Good. Get used to it Shami.