I’ve been away all day and just back but have listened to the BBC at several times and the coverage of the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough football crowd disaster was omnipresent. I remember watching the story unfold – it was undeed a terrible event and I feel sorry for all those bereaved families BUT the relentless MOPERY emanating from Liverpool and the BBC’s slavish coverage of it was over the top. Over on A Tangled Web, one of my fellow writers, Mike Cunningham, also picked up on the scale of the BBC coverage. Wondered what you reckon?
96 TEARS.
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Biased BBC is Biased! | 16.04.09 – 5:20 pm |
You’ll have to forgive me, I’m in Western Canada and don’t get to see all of the BBC output, so I`m relying on the clip their website provided.
Now other sources are saying that at the mention of Brown`s name the crowd booed. The clip that I saw on the BBC website shows that they are clapping.
It`s just a point of clarification.
Correction – Sorry the term is “humanly”
“To maintain conditions”? what does that mean in a slave centred, geonocidal Gulag system?
It was caused by the Allies but it wasn’t their fault. They were understandably just trying to win the war.
TPO
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which part of western Canada? I’ve been to Alberta and hated it. I hear Vancouver is nice though.
I’ve been to Alberta and hated it.
Biased BBC is Biased!
Calgary, I love it. Kananaskis is 40 mins away & Banff just over an hour.
The wartime death rates of the concentration camps in Germany proper were much lower than those in the East (occupied Poland and Russia). IIRC Himmler (or was it Glucks?) sent out a circular missive detailing the comparative mortality figures with commands on how the figures were to be reduced.
ahh it was Edmonton I went to. Been to Calgary in the 90s, i guess its changed a lot with the oil boom since then. till recently of course.
Thats because the network of camps in the “General Government” were extermination camps. The bulk of concentration camp labour was based in the Reich. Himmlers concern was based on a simple requirement of increased production efficiency. Slaves simply died more slowly than inmates in the extermination camps.
Not much evidency of an overweening humanity there.
TPO
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wait, so you dont even live in the UK yet you hate the BBC? whats it gotta do with canada??
evidence
Biased BBC is Biased! | 16.04.09 – 6:03 pm |
I don’t know if you’ve read any of my previous posts.
I’m ex UK armed forces, ex-mercenary for UK PLC, ex UK police & ex UK intelligence officer. Moved her 18 months ago to escape.
Does that mean I’m not allowed to comment on BBC bias any more?
Sorry I only paid for the 10 minute argument and have to go now and get my little girl ready for afternoon kndergarden.
I forgot to add that my pensions, paid in the UK, are subject to UK taxation. Still not allowed to comment on BBC bias?????
Off to kindergarden now.
Red Lepond | 16.04.09 – 5:11 pm
“I’ve never seen any actual documentation on the levels of food stores,”
Or, who cares.
“but many of the guards who were present at Belsen at the time of liberation had only recently arrived themselves.”
So, not their fault!
“Besides, sickness and not hunger was the major killer in the final analysis.”
Anyone can pick up a virus. Nobody’s fault.
“Indeed, when the British soldiers compassionately but unwisely tried to feed up the survivors suffering from dysentry many perished.”
Wise newby guards practised humane-type starving. For their own good.
“The pertinent question is…..”
The pertinent question is: Why would anyone introduce a propitious remark about the Belsen concentration camp into a thread about the BBC’s coverage of Hillsborough?
” …whether the German camp authorities…..”
German Camp Authorities! (!)
“…….tried to maintain conditions in the camp as long as humanly possible.”
Those German Camp authorities, Oh how humanly they struggled to maintain conditions! Maintain Conditions!!
“The answer to this appears to be yes.”
The pertinent question being: is Red Lepond only here to flaunt his contempt for Jews.
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Red Lepond | 16.04.09 – 5:13 pm
“(can’t we get some decent site software)”
Who is ‘we’?
Classic revisionist / denialist techniques that you nicely dissected there Sue.
But production efficiency and humane conditions can go hand in hand. Witness any German or Japanese car factory.
But to return to my original point: the conditions in Belsen at the time of liberation were not deliberate, but the combined consequence of i)disastrous overcrowding ii)the general dysfunction and disruption of an increasingly unmanageable country.
biased bbc 6:03
The BBC broadcasts all round the world and many people outside the UK still respect it for historical reasons. That is why it is important for people like TPO and me and other posters here to expose the BBC for the biased, partial political propaganda machine whice, in reality, it is.
‘The pertinent question is: Why would anyone introduce a propitious remark about the Belsen concentration camp into a thread about the BBC’s coverage of Hillsborough?’
I didn’t start it. Jon posted:
‘Here is another anniversary far worse than the Liverpool one, which occurred on the 15th April 1945.
‘The Nazi concentration camp at Bergen-Belsen is liberated by units of the British 11th Armoured Division.’
I thought liberation was something to be celebrated. Unless of course it’s the Soviet liberation of Eastern Europe.
I believe in giving credit where credit’s due and apportioning blame where necessary. So I applaud the humanity of every German soldier, guard or camp functionary who worked, within the limitations of the system, to uphold, maintain and perpetuate humane living and working conditions.
..lets recap the presenters statement on BBC news concerning Hillsborough – ‘liverpool fans angry because noone has yet been found to be responsible.
We know drunks caused the pressure – perhaps leading to misjudgments – but for the BBC, this doesnt enter the equation.
That must be some sort of socio-political bias?
–anyway, I bet the drunks who did the pushing are fully aware of where the blame lies – and perhaps they wont rest until the myth of somebody else’s culpability is set in stone.
Funny things, people.
Not funny I would say. When they negate any self responsibility for their actions in their lives they in fact are shite.
Fair enough
Did anyone catch yesterday’s Sun? What was the scale and the tone of their coverage?
ok, read most of the comments on here and looking like im the only scouser whos gonna raise their heads over parrapet ill look at some of the following general points:
*bleading heart/ moaning scousers etc- yes, ill agree with that, but as a general rule, its a minority who belong to the ‘he who shouts loudest wins’ etc.. we have got them, cant disagree but like most big cities, please dont judge on a minority. ive worked all over this country in all the major cities and basically, they all have their good points and most a lot of bad as well…
*liverpool scum caused the crush- hmm well, yes i spose if no one pushed, no one would have got crushed.. but, if police had controlled crowd better, no need to open gates.. both at fault, agree not enough media coverage on the pushing, but two wrongs dont make a right
*BBC biased coverage- nope, Sky news had it on all afternoon as well.. i DO think the BBC is biased in many, many ways, generally a liberal lefty leaning, but didnt find that in their coverage, was same on all media outlets i found.
just my tuppence worth, shoot me down as you wish
Its not just Liverpool. Its the U.K.
Ignorance, small mindedness and a heaped tablespoon of greed. Garnish with some fresh picked grievance.
oh, and this:-
piggy kosher:
“it is a little known fact that the local Jobcentre was able to record 96 sign – offs that month.
Ill get my coat too..”
ill pass onto my mate whos 2 brothers died at Hillsborough, im sure he will be pleased to hear your well informed, pleasent wishes, you cocksucker
I laugh when im hurting mate. No joke either.
Try it.
the cocksucker was a bit strong piggy, i apologise
Its cool. I was bitter and bit twisted when I posted that.
Least Im honest.
fuckin stupid though..
honesty is all we expect piggy.. its hard for me to stand back from Hillsborough, i know a lot of people who were there, and strangely, they are the ones who are trying to forget, but, like most things in life, they get drowned out by a screaming minority wanting justice, quite sad really when you tryin to get on with yourt life and anniversaries are rammed down your throat and dragged up year in year out…
I was out of order. I do apologise.
Sometimes its best to grieve alone. I dont think communal grieving helps anyone, in a way. Kind regards to your mate.
Simon
cheers Simon, its cool live and let live mate.. i can hardly speak, its not like i have ever cracked a joke that might not have been in the best taste.. and i agree, grieving is best done alone with friends and family, some of us scousers do have a tendency to “do a Dianna” (love that actually lol) but i think its down to personal choice, there can be a ‘herd’ mentallity here which pisses me off a lot of the time but the media do seem to thrive and big it up, and some people feed of it, its like a self devouring frenzy…
I think Bobby Sands has proved that the scousers ARE as sane, humane and reasonable as the rest of us bastards… time to move on?
Robert, first time in my 40 yrs ive been called sane, hhumane and reasonable lol… moving right along now…. 🙂
Cheers Bobby and Rob.
If the B.B.C. was as self regulating as this site, we would all be all right 🙂
Red Lepond:
Re TBHOC according to this site:
“So, on the one hand, yes, the British–at the very least Holwell and those East India Company officials who knew the truth–did overstate what happened, exaggerating the number of casualties and the motivations of the Indians. On the other hand, the Indians did force over five dozen people into a cell that was designed to hold maybe six, and then promptly, though accidentally, forgot about them and let them swelter and starve. Not a real good PR move, there.”
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1961/is-the-black-hole-of-calcutta-a-myth
As regards Bergen-Belsen this is part of the eye-witness account of Richard Dimbleby, in the days when the BBC still had some credibility and the licence fee was worth paying for, who entered the camp with the British Army:
“..Here over an acre of ground lay dead and dying people. You could not see which was which … The living lay with their heads against the corpses and around them moved the awful, ghostly procession of emaciated, aimless people, with nothing to do and with no hope of life, unable to move out of your way, unable to look at the terrible sights around them … Babies had been born here, tiny wizened things that could not live … A mother, driven mad, screamed at a British sentry to give her milk for her child, and thrust the tiny mite into his arms, then ran off, crying terribly. He opened the bundle and found the baby had been dead for days.
This day at Belsen was the most horrible of my life.”
The extermination camps in the East were emptied of all but the chronically sick (Primo Levi was saved by an attack of scarlet fever and was thus able to recount his experiences of Auschwitz) not to “safeguard” the inmates from the oncoming Red Army but to destroy the evidence of the Nazis’ criminality. The wretched prisoners, already weakened by systematic torture and brutality, were subjected to death marches in which thousands were either shot outright or dropped dead from exhaustion as many accounts of the survivors testify.
Death rates varied between the camps in the East and the West because the eastern camps had gas chambers and industrial genocide was practised there. Those in the West were left to die through the much slower processes of starvation and neglect. Certainly most of those in Belsen died from disease, particularly typhus but that was because from 1944 onwards those with infectious diseases were deliberately moved to Belsen and the contagions spread thanks to lack of medical treatment, shelter and food as well as to the fact that the benighted inmates quickly became raddled with lice – again read accounts of those who met Anne Frank there.
Of course the misguided efforts of the British troops in giving the liberated captives their rations proved fatal in many cases but that was because their digestive systems had been weakened to the point of non-existence by deliberate malnutrition and outright neglect. In such extreme cases patients have to be intravenously fed and even in those cases the chances of survivalare slight. The blame for all deaths at Bergen-Belsen rests with those guarding them before liberation not afterwards.
It hardly surprises me that you are unfamiliar with the state of guards’ supplies as you seem to be singularly ill-informed. I suggest you Google image pictures of Irma Grese, Elisabeth Volkenrath, Juana Bormann, Fritz Klein, Josef Kramer and then any one of their victims for whom they were responsible and then compare and contrast their physical conditions. How come none of the warderd succumbed to any of the contagious diseases prevalent in the camp? As a parting gift to those they had brutalised and tormented with such malignity the warders, before making their escape, turned off the water supply:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergen-Belsen_concentration_camp
So much for “humanly maintaining the conditions”. Using the word “human” in connexion with these monsters is a perversion of the English language. Please do not pollute this site with any more of this crap. Not only is it way off-topic but there are (unfortunately) lots of holocaust-denial websites that you can post this filth on and, besides, reading it makes me feel nauseous.
the BBC doesnt need to self-regulate piggy, cos its always right cos it occupies the moral high ground, dont ya know?!?! its us ignorant oinks that need educating to their rosey tinted multi-cultural liberal whingy left views, not other way around! shame on you 😉
Lol I SAID I was stupid!
Anyone who’s never indulged in black humour has never been in a tight spot or witnessed or had to deal with something awful.
In a book called ‘The Choir Boys’ a woman stops at a road accident and says “Is everyone alright?” “Why don’t you ask him” says the police officer lifting the severed head of the driver from the car seat.
At least your moniker made me laugh BSK&F and all power to you for commenting here.
i agree TPO i love black humour myself, and was hasty in my initial reply..
as for commenting on here.. as i said, its hard to get away from, but i can tell you all now, 90% of people round here silently groaned this week… “fucking Hillsborough again…”
just want it to go away and get on with it.. but some people.. sigh…
Now more than ever, you got to laugh. Its a matter of spiritual life or death, especially in this deeply unfunny, individuality hating,
suffocating era.
oh i agree piggy.. you gotta laugh these days… worlds going to hell in a handcart… and Gordo is getting the violin out of the case as we speak.. just after he has re-arranged some of the deckchairs of course 😉
To the shop for fags n beer.
That helps too, B. 🙂
Maybe everything’s been said, but as a “quarter Liverpudlian” who worked for 2-days a week in Liverpool from 1981 – 83, I was confounded by how deeply football was in many individual’s genes. Saturday’s results for Liverpool and Everton were always a clue as to how factory production figures would be on Monday and Tuesday, especially if it had been a “derby” between the two.
What I also learned then was that many people never paid to get in and the technique was to get as much “Dutch courage” on board and storm a likely entry point at as short a possible time before the kick-off. “It always works”, I was told. The many clubs, their supporters clubs and their local police must have known this, too.
BTW, I was very irritated that the BBC had this item so high up and repetitively on their radio news bulletins.
Mike Spilligan | 16.04.09 – 9:04 pm
thanks.
nice to know that i’m not that only one that thinks Scouser self-pity about Hillsborough is a load of bollocks.
and what makes it even worse is that THEY know its a load of bollocks.
As Lord Justice Taylor himself said…..”the figures do suggest that there was not a very significant body of tickletless fans in the crowd which built up”. Unless of course you know different?
So I ask AGAIN – your “opinions” are based on what exactly?
glj | 16.04.09 – 2:10 am
listen mate, i rarely get personal on here, but i have relatives in Liverpool.
and they dont blame the cops for the disaster.
And they are as mad as hell that the scumbags got away with it and all the focus is on the cops.
my relatives KNOW the scumbags who triggered the disaster.
and yet they walk free while everyone blames the cops. thats fucking sickening if you ask me.
Mister Ed, Hillsborough means something to some people, certain people are looking for their ‘truth’, ‘justice’ whatever they or ‘that’ may be…
but it does mean something to them…
just not everyone in Liverpool per se.. so not all ‘Scousers’ please or ill have to ruffle my perm and twitch my tash at ya 😉
On the whole we actually like each other in liverpool and unlike many other places in England most people originate here,hence the rather un/english outpourings.As for the beeb…they are no friends of ours.
What BSK&F said, plus for a bunch of innocent folks South Yorkshire Police sure did a bang up job of trashing the evidence.
I am surprised that some of the individuals who helped add to the scale of the disaster by their behaviour or actions are still known to the community. I cant think what that must be like for the victims of loved ones.
Simon