So, one day after D-day and the site is still here and I have been closely following your comments. I want to let you know that we will try and follow up all your positive and thoughtful suggestions, wherever this is possible.
There are a few things that I have decided ARE staying on blog – such as the Twitter bar. The reason is that this enables me to post a quick comment which may be on the BBC whenever I hear or see it. If some don’t like this, tough. Furthermore, it may be that the blogger platform is imperfect but trust me there is no such thing as a perfect platform.
Some people have commented regarding the siting of A Tangled Web and All Seeing Eye at the top of this site. I would simply point out the huge behind the scenes work that Geoff from the Eye makes to this site (Ever wondered who makes the weekly Question Time session run smoothly) and just like ATW he also picks up on BBC related issues – so both blogs are staying, linked here – to be augmented with others. The broader blogroll will also develop. This is WORK IN PROGRESS – but progress it is. So my thanks to all who come here – hope the shock of the new is now wearing off – and from tomorrow on I only want to talk about the lousy BBC and the bias it exudes. Hope you agree!
David
Website design is partly a matter of style, and partly of HTML mechanics – translating the style decisions into actual code.
The mechanics have been made far easier by use of standard templates, cascading style sheets and all that.
The mechanics should therefore be secondary – the primary decisions should be about style, general layout. Most of which is good. But if there are matters of style that need changing, the mechanics these days are surely relatively straightforward, as so much is done using templates. Dropping something, for example, is a simple deletion of a piece of HTML coding or text.
…….
In sum, dropping the twitter stuff that drives the rel content off the screen is a style choice. On which we clearly disagree. I can’t see any benefit of adding Twitter to the top left body of the site that outweighs the effect of driving the MAIN text right off the screen.
And if you chose to drop the Twitter stuff – a STYLE decision – if you need help in amending the HTML code I’d be happy to have a look at it. Likewise if you wanted to move it eg to the right, to avoid driving the main text off the screen.
David
Website design is partly a matter of style, and partly of HTML mechanics – translating the style decisions into actual code.
The mechanics have been made far easier by use of standard templates, cascading style sheets and all that.
The mechanics should therefore be secondary – the primary decisions should be about style, general layout. Most of which is good. But if there are matters of style that need changing, the mechanics these days are surely relatively straightforward, as so much is done using templates. Dropping something, for example, is a simple deletion of a piece of HTML coding or text.
…….
In sum, dropping the twitter stuff that drives the rel content off the screen is a style choice. On which we clearly disagree. I can’t see any benefit of adding Twitter to the top left body of the site that outweighs the effect of driving the MAIN text right off the screen.
And if you chose to drop the Twitter stuff – a STYLE decision – if you need help in amending the HTML code I’d be happy to have a look at it. Likewise if you wanted to move it eg to the right, to avoid driving the main text off the screen.
JohnA,
Website design also takes time, and that is finite resource. Those behind this have put a lot of (unpaid) work in to trying to freshen up this site.
I don’t see why Twitter is pushing the main text off the screen, I cannot see that at my end?
Aas for style, yes, that is subjective but what we’re not doing here is design by committe. Someone has to grab things and make decisions and that is exactly what has been done here.
I keep repeating this is work in progress since that is exactly what it is!
I might add that I can see we need to tighten up on some things but endless carping about things people don’t think are quite perfect enough is a huge demotivator. Huge.
JohnA,
Website design also takes time, and that is finite resource. Those behind this have put a lot of (unpaid) work in to trying to freshen up this site.
I don’t see why Twitter is pushing the main text off the screen, I cannot see that at my end?
Aas for style, yes, that is subjective but what we’re not doing here is design by committe. Someone has to grab things and make decisions and that is exactly what has been done here.
I keep repeating this is work in progress since that is exactly what it is!
I might add that I can see we need to tighten up on some things but endless carping about things people don’t think are quite perfect enough is a huge demotivator. Huge.
JohnA,
Website design also takes time, and that is finite resource. Those behind this have put a lot of (unpaid) work in to trying to freshen up this site.
I don’t see why Twitter is pushing the main text off the screen, I cannot see that at my end?
Aas for style, yes, that is subjective but what we’re not doing here is design by committe. Someone has to grab things and make decisions and that is exactly what has been done here.
I keep repeating this is work in progress since that is exactly what it is!
I might add that I can see we need to tighten up on some things but endless carping about things people don’t think are quite perfect enough is a huge demotivator. Huge.
There’s a funny thing about Twitter. Someone earlier suggested it might be an age thing. That’s been my experience, too. It seems to be a bigger hit with older people.
There’s a funny thing about Twitter. Someone earlier suggested it might be an age thing. That’s been my experience, too. It seems to be a bigger hit with older people.
There’s a funny thing about Twitter. Someone earlier suggested it might be an age thing. That’s been my experience, too. It seems to be a bigger hit with older people.
how do i start a new thread?
how do i start a new thread?
how do i start a new thread?
David Vance
You asked for comments. I have been giving some. If you want to call that carping – that is up to you. But stating as objective fact that the Twitter stuff drives the main content off the screen with some browsers was intended to be helpful.
Different browsers can often show websites in different ways, which is why new designs are normally pre-tested on different PCs using different browsers (using a CD, before going live) to check things out.
I would imagine that a lot of people are still using the earlier version of Internet Explorer – and may have the same off-putting effect I am seeing.
David Vance
You asked for comments. I have been giving some. If you want to call that carping – that is up to you. But stating as objective fact that the Twitter stuff drives the main content off the screen with some browsers was intended to be helpful.
Different browsers can often show websites in different ways, which is why new designs are normally pre-tested on different PCs using different browsers (using a CD, before going live) to check things out.
I would imagine that a lot of people are still using the earlier version of Internet Explorer – and may have the same off-putting effect I am seeing.
David Vance
You asked for comments. I have been giving some. If you want to call that carping – that is up to you. But stating as objective fact that the Twitter stuff drives the main content off the screen with some browsers was intended to be helpful.
Different browsers can often show websites in different ways, which is why new designs are normally pre-tested on different PCs using different browsers (using a CD, before going live) to check things out.
I would imagine that a lot of people are still using the earlier version of Internet Explorer – and may have the same off-putting effect I am seeing.
I find the style, especially the big bright blue banner, and the royal blue text colour of the main blog posts, too ‘upbeat’ and even ‘frivolous’. To me they suggest that the subject matter of the blog is not serious. As it IS serious I would prefer more sober colours (even navy blue would be better) and maybe a less outsize banner.
I find the style, especially the big bright blue banner, and the royal blue text colour of the main blog posts, too ‘upbeat’ and even ‘frivolous’. To me they suggest that the subject matter of the blog is not serious. As it IS serious I would prefer more sober colours (even navy blue would be better) and maybe a less outsize banner.
I find the style, especially the big bright blue banner, and the royal blue text colour of the main blog posts, too ‘upbeat’ and even ‘frivolous’. To me they suggest that the subject matter of the blog is not serious. As it IS serious I would prefer more sober colours (even navy blue would be better) and maybe a less outsize banner.
The new design takes forever to load and gives me messages about an “unresponsive script”.
The loss of the Haloscan archives alone should mean that the new design is not an improvement – quite the contrary.
I still can’t comment using my favorite Firefox browser and am obliged to use this old version of Safari in order to see the “word verification” image.
That means I won’t be commenting here in the future as I can’t be bothered to use a different browser ONLY for this site.
While I appreciate the unpaid effort that has gone into the new design I’m afraid for me it’s a triumph of looks over funcionality, ie: it may look better but it doesn’t work as well as the old one.
The new design takes forever to load and gives me messages about an “unresponsive script”.
The loss of the Haloscan archives alone should mean that the new design is not an improvement – quite the contrary.
I still can’t comment using my favorite Firefox browser and am obliged to use this old version of Safari in order to see the “word verification” image.
That means I won’t be commenting here in the future as I can’t be bothered to use a different browser ONLY for this site.
While I appreciate the unpaid effort that has gone into the new design I’m afraid for me it’s a triumph of looks over funcionality, ie: it may look better but it doesn’t work as well as the old one.
The new design takes forever to load and gives me messages about an “unresponsive script”.
The loss of the Haloscan archives alone should mean that the new design is not an improvement – quite the contrary.
I still can’t comment using my favorite Firefox browser and am obliged to use this old version of Safari in order to see the “word verification” image.
That means I won’t be commenting here in the future as I can’t be bothered to use a different browser ONLY for this site.
While I appreciate the unpaid effort that has gone into the new design I’m afraid for me it’s a triumph of looks over funcionality, ie: it may look better but it doesn’t work as well as the old one.
I agree with Anon to an extent (though not about blue text specifically): I find the blueness a little too intense, too much like harsh swimming-pool blue.
Slightly softer shades of blue and greyish blues with navy (as in the navy bar that’s already there) might be better.
That said, a lot of design has gone into this and one very good result of that is that – hard shade of blue notwithstanding – the site is very clear and easy to read. (It is surprising how many websites are not – and manage to make a pig’s ear of it, playing havoc with legibility, when they start using colours.) Here, both the black and the blue text work well.
I agree with Anon to an extent (though not about blue text specifically): I find the blueness a little too intense, too much like harsh swimming-pool blue.
Slightly softer shades of blue and greyish blues with navy (as in the navy bar that’s already there) might be better.
That said, a lot of design has gone into this and one very good result of that is that – hard shade of blue notwithstanding – the site is very clear and easy to read. (It is surprising how many websites are not – and manage to make a pig’s ear of it, playing havoc with legibility, when they start using colours.) Here, both the black and the blue text work well.
I agree with Anon to an extent (though not about blue text specifically): I find the blueness a little too intense, too much like harsh swimming-pool blue.
Slightly softer shades of blue and greyish blues with navy (as in the navy bar that’s already there) might be better.
That said, a lot of design has gone into this and one very good result of that is that – hard shade of blue notwithstanding – the site is very clear and easy to read. (It is surprising how many websites are not – and manage to make a pig’s ear of it, playing havoc with legibility, when they start using colours.) Here, both the black and the blue text work well.
Website design also takes time, and that is finite resource. Those behind this have put a lot of (unpaid) work in to trying to freshen up this site.Actually David it’s not time consuming. What Geoff did was the equavilaent of uploading a picture. It probably took more time to look for the download than to actually redesign using the download. It uploads like a picture only in a different place.
There are other downloads there that have three columns but with the two columns to the right hand side that would solve much of your problems here, so that the site can be looked at on mobiles much easier! Go over to it and look. There are also many two colum templates.
http://www.ourblogtemplates.com/
When I offered to amend the old site without losing content, I built a side bar and that only took a few hours, I offered to do that, and amend things without losing content.
Best thing now something foreign has been introduced is to pick a template free of the problems being complained about, and then add the haloscn comments back again.
Bio,
It’s work in progress, do you not see that means we will refine things?
Also – haloscan is not gone, and we will see what to do about getting access to it for all.
Haloscan was notoriously unstable but the minute we remove it up goes the allelujah chorus. Maybe I’ll bring it back and then everyone will be happy? (Except when it doesn’t work and crashes and becomes redundant)
Website design also takes time, and that is finite resource. Those behind this have put a lot of (unpaid) work in to trying to freshen up this site.Actually David it’s not time consuming. What Geoff did was the equavilaent of uploading a picture. It probably took more time to look for the download than to actually redesign using the download. It uploads like a picture only in a different place.
There are other downloads there that have three columns but with the two columns to the right hand side that would solve much of your problems here, so that the site can be looked at on mobiles much easier! Go over to it and look. There are also many two colum templates.
http://www.ourblogtemplates.com/
When I offered to amend the old site without losing content, I built a side bar and that only took a few hours, I offered to do that, and amend things without losing content.
Best thing now something foreign has been introduced is to pick a template free of the problems being complained about, and then add the haloscn comments back again.
Bio,
It’s work in progress, do you not see that means we will refine things?
Also – haloscan is not gone, and we will see what to do about getting access to it for all.
Haloscan was notoriously unstable but the minute we remove it up goes the allelujah chorus. Maybe I’ll bring it back and then everyone will be happy? (Except when it doesn’t work and crashes and becomes redundant)
Website design also takes time, and that is finite resource. Those behind this have put a lot of (unpaid) work in to trying to freshen up this site.Actually David it’s not time consuming. What Geoff did was the equavilaent of uploading a picture. It probably took more time to look for the download than to actually redesign using the download. It uploads like a picture only in a different place.
There are other downloads there that have three columns but with the two columns to the right hand side that would solve much of your problems here, so that the site can be looked at on mobiles much easier! Go over to it and look. There are also many two colum templates.
http://www.ourblogtemplates.com/
When I offered to amend the old site without losing content, I built a side bar and that only took a few hours, I offered to do that, and amend things without losing content.
Best thing now something foreign has been introduced is to pick a template free of the problems being complained about, and then add the haloscn comments back again.
Bio,
It’s work in progress, do you not see that means we will refine things?
Also – haloscan is not gone, and we will see what to do about getting access to it for all.
Haloscan was notoriously unstable but the minute we remove it up goes the allelujah chorus. Maybe I’ll bring it back and then everyone will be happy? (Except when it doesn’t work and crashes and becomes redundant)
Works fine in Opera. Colours might just be a tad bright and numbering of comments would be useful but overall I think the new look is an improvement. Some of the comments on the new look are constructive but some are pedantic or even rude. It’s worth remembering Rabbie Burns’ sage advice “to see oorsels as ithers see us”.
Works fine in Opera. Colours might just be a tad bright and numbering of comments would be useful but overall I think the new look is an improvement. Some of the comments on the new look are constructive but some are pedantic or even rude. It’s worth remembering Rabbie Burns’ sage advice “to see oorsels as ithers see us”.
Works fine in Opera. Colours might just be a tad bright and numbering of comments would be useful but overall I think the new look is an improvement. Some of the comments on the new look are constructive but some are pedantic or even rude. It’s worth remembering Rabbie Burns’ sage advice “to see oorsels as ithers see us”.
sites crap now – all the old comments gone. theres notheing to pick up on. everyone has lost where they were at.
Thanks for your response David V.
Yes of course I understand that hopefully things will be “refined”, that’s why I’m giving some feedback.
Regarding Blogger comment system V Haloscan:
*To the best of my knowledge Haloscan didn’t suffer from spambots so the “word verification” captcha seems superfluous and a PITA.
*Others have noted too that Blogger doesn’t automatically convert URLs into clickable links. Nor does it allow smileys or images included in comments.
*As others have also noted one needs to type one’s name every time.
*Yes, Haloscan did occasionally go down but given its advantages I feel that’s a price worth paying.
Finally, I prefer to avoid anything to do with Google beyond the search engine as far as possible:
http://www.google-watch.org/gmail.htmlTo quote Groucho Marx, “These are my priciples. If you don’t like them… well, I have others.”😉
sites crap now – all the old comments gone. theres notheing to pick up on. everyone has lost where they were at.
Thanks for your response David V.
Yes of course I understand that hopefully things will be “refined”, that’s why I’m giving some feedback.
Regarding Blogger comment system V Haloscan:
*To the best of my knowledge Haloscan didn’t suffer from spambots so the “word verification” captcha seems superfluous and a PITA.
*Others have noted too that Blogger doesn’t automatically convert URLs into clickable links. Nor does it allow smileys or images included in comments.
*As others have also noted one needs to type one’s name every time.
*Yes, Haloscan did occasionally go down but given its advantages I feel that’s a price worth paying.
Finally, I prefer to avoid anything to do with Google beyond the search engine as far as possible:
http://www.google-watch.org/gmail.htmlTo quote Groucho Marx, “These are my priciples. If you don’t like them… well, I have others.”😉
sites crap now – all the old comments gone. theres notheing to pick up on. everyone has lost where they were at.
Thanks for your response David V.
Yes of course I understand that hopefully things will be “refined”, that’s why I’m giving some feedback.
Regarding Blogger comment system V Haloscan:
*To the best of my knowledge Haloscan didn’t suffer from spambots so the “word verification” captcha seems superfluous and a PITA.
*Others have noted too that Blogger doesn’t automatically convert URLs into clickable links. Nor does it allow smileys or images included in comments.
*As others have also noted one needs to type one’s name every time.
*Yes, Haloscan did occasionally go down but given its advantages I feel that’s a price worth paying.
Finally, I prefer to avoid anything to do with Google beyond the search engine as far as possible:
http://www.google-watch.org/gmail.htmlTo quote Groucho Marx, “These are my priciples. If you don’t like them… well, I have others.”😉
Bio – thanks for that, appreciate constructive feedback. We will do our best to make this all the very best possible!
Bio – thanks for that, appreciate constructive feedback. We will do our best to make this all the very best possible!
Bio – thanks for that, appreciate constructive feedback. We will do our best to make this all the very best possible!
I’ve said before that I like Haloscan. I only had problems with it a couple of times, and they were temporary – comments would disappear for a while, but would eventually reappear.
The best things about it are:
The look of the font and spacing.
The ability to link to URLs automatically.
The ability to link to other comments easily.
The smileys and features described by Bio.
The unread comments facility.
Number of visitors online facility.
ID at top and bottom of comment, and date as well as time of post.
No need for “Said” after the ID.
Accurate ‘Peview’
But the worst thing of all is the loss of the comments archive. It’s Invaluable.
As for the “allelujah chorus” – maybe it’s a case of you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone.
Everyone appreciates that a lot of effort has been put in.
There are a number of other suggestions I could make; they can wait.
I’ve said before that I like Haloscan. I only had problems with it a couple of times, and they were temporary – comments would disappear for a while, but would eventually reappear.
The best things about it are:
The look of the font and spacing.
The ability to link to URLs automatically.
The ability to link to other comments easily.
The smileys and features described by Bio.
The unread comments facility.
Number of visitors online facility.
ID at top and bottom of comment, and date as well as time of post.
No need for “Said” after the ID.
Accurate ‘Peview’
But the worst thing of all is the loss of the comments archive. It’s Invaluable.
As for the “allelujah chorus” – maybe it’s a case of you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone.
Everyone appreciates that a lot of effort has been put in.
There are a number of other suggestions I could make; they can wait.
I’ve said before that I like Haloscan. I only had problems with it a couple of times, and they were temporary – comments would disappear for a while, but would eventually reappear.
The best things about it are:
The look of the font and spacing.
The ability to link to URLs automatically.
The ability to link to other comments easily.
The smileys and features described by Bio.
The unread comments facility.
Number of visitors online facility.
ID at top and bottom of comment, and date as well as time of post.
No need for “Said” after the ID.
Accurate ‘Peview’
But the worst thing of all is the loss of the comments archive. It’s Invaluable.
As for the “allelujah chorus” – maybe it’s a case of you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone.
Everyone appreciates that a lot of effort has been put in.
There are a number of other suggestions I could make; they can wait.
Nice new home for vance. The blue is cheap looking. It’s difficult to post a comment unless you are logged in, that’d ought to make things easier for people to go away.
I used to drop by here for a read but now its right wing rant and no bias.
Nice new home for vance. The blue is cheap looking. It’s difficult to post a comment unless you are logged in, that’d ought to make things easier for people to go away.
I used to drop by here for a read but now its right wing rant and no bias.
Nice new home for vance. The blue is cheap looking. It’s difficult to post a comment unless you are logged in, that’d ought to make things easier for people to go away.
I used to drop by here for a read but now its right wing rant and no bias.
I’m not too fond of the blue text. It’s unprofessional. Text is usually black which would be better, and these little boxes are dreadful.
I’m not too fond of the blue text. It’s unprofessional. Text is usually black which would be better, and these little boxes are dreadful.
I’m not too fond of the blue text. It’s unprofessional. Text is usually black which would be better, and these little boxes are dreadful.