I happened to catch this interview on Today with Foreign Office minister Chris Bryant on the topic of government trying to prevent forced marriages. He was quick to make it clear that this was not directed towards Islam since Islam did not approve of such brutality. Then Sarah Montague pointed out that 70% of all (known) forced marriage cases involve people of Pakistani origin – a detail which Bryant shrugged off and which Montague promptly let drop. Anyone know what the predominant religion in Pakistan is? If do, give the Today show a call and update them.
FORCED STATISTICS
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"Landmark case on forced marriage: mother jailed"
By Houriya Ahmed ( 'socialcohesion.co.uk' May 22, 2009)
[Extract]:
"A mother has been sentenced, in what has been called a 'landmark case', for three years for forcing her two teenage daughters to marry their first cousins in Pakistan in July 2007.
"The mother duped the children, aged 14 and 15, into thinking they were visiting Pakistan on a holiday. However, when they arrived they discovered that their marriage preparations were underway for a joint ceremony. Returning to the UK in September 2007, the girls confided in their teachers in February 2008 who immediately informed the police. The 39 year old mother was arrested.
"The mother was charged and convicted for inciting or causing a child to engage in sexual activity, arranging or facilitating the commission of a child sex offence, and intending to pervert the course of justice."
It so happens that the people involved in this case are… Muslims.
Well since the so called 'Prophet Mohammadan' married then raped a child I'd call that forced marriage.
Oh and the Koran allows for multiple wives.
Bryant should have been asked what would happen to HIM as a homosexual in Pakistan under the Taliban.
No mention at all in this article…..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8129466.stm
..until the last paragraph which quotes Chris Bryant:
"I know there are maybe some people who think this is an issue about Islam – it's not. Islam does not recommend or accept forced marriage"
Forgive my language, but do these idiots at the BBC really think they are doing the licence fee-paying public a favour by pretending that this is not about Islam and its cultural attachments? And if it isn't about Islam, what is it about? Pakistanis? So we are racist instead then for questioning the sudden disappearance of young British girls of Pakistani origin and their reappearance as the wife of a Pakistani man 30 years older, whom they have never met before?
Do they think for one minute that if such practises were evident in Christianity, that the BBC would not be trumpeting the fact?
Notice also the hideously white hands in the poster shown on the BBC web page.
The BBC remind me of politicians going round insisting that immigration and multiculturalism are self evidently wonderful and calling anyone who disagrees a racist.
PS has anyone noticed how Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) applies to the Nicky Campbell phone in programme? In other words, just count how long it takes for Campbell to pop the question "did you vote for the BNP?" to anyone who phones in with a view questioning, even mildly and intelligently, the wisdom of large scale immigration and forced multiculturalism?
Perhaps the reponse to that BNP question is "No. I don't support extreme left wing parties"
Forced marriage amongst muslims is definitely a cultural rather than religious thing. The reason so many forced marriages are within Islam is 2-fold:
1) Islam is the predominant religion in areas where forced marriages are acceptable, and
2) Women are inferior in many interpretation of Islam, and therefore are considered the "property" of the father. In fact, in Sharia law (or uber-Islam as I like to think of it) boys "belong" to the father once they reach 6 years old.
The idea of forced marriage pre-dates Islam, much like the Burkha and other outdated concepts that infest the religion.
It is cultural and can be mapped in terms of regions rather than religions – I know two people personally who have had to fight hard to avoid forced marriage, both Sikhs, one of whom had to go into hiding for several months, but both sets of parents originate from regions of Pakistan now mostly dominated by muslims. But it is the tradition of that area that is to blame, not Islam itself.
In this aspect, perhaps the BBC have a case for not singling out Islam as a culprit. HOWEVER, the statistic should be highlighted – if anything (from a leftie perspective) it should shed a little light and therefore transparancy on the issue.
Perhaps (and I hate to poke the righties' hornets' nest here) the reason so many forced marriages involve muslims is down to the spread of Islam into indiginous cultures?
Why, BBC, if we take a random 'English' city. e.g. Bradford, are forced marriages so common there?
'Bradford Telegraph & Argus' (4/2/08):
"‘Forced marriages top 400 in Bradford’"
[Extract]:
"A report into honour-based violence published today suggests that there were some 400 forced marriage cases in the Bradford area last year alone.
"The report, by the Centre for Social Cohesion, aims to assess levels of honour-based crimes including forced marriage and so-called honour-killings' in the UK.
"The report's authors say that such crimes are under-estimated in areas such as Bradford.
"The document, Crimes of the Community: Honour-based violence in the UK' is by James Brandon and Salam Hafez, research fellows at the Centre for Social Cohesion."
Just as many Muslims in Britain deny that Islamic jihadists carried out the 7 July, 2005 massacres in London (see BBC 'Conspiracy Files, 7/7, on i-Player), so many Muslims deny widespread Muslim practice of forced marriage.
Muslims just deny everything. They are prats.
Hilarious misunderstanding when Sarah Montague tried to warn us that this report might cause Islamophobic practices:
She said:
“I suppose one of the fears is, that when you look at the reporting, that 70% involve families with a Pakistani origin, there might be a temptation that if someone goes on holiday to Pakistan with a relatively young daughter – that they might be jumped on and ‘suggestions might be made’ “
In other words, there is a danger that the 'forced marriage unit' will use these statistical probabilities to put innocent Pakistanis under suspicion.
But Chris Bryant misunderstood, and thought she was saying we must ‘jump on’ all Pakistanis that are taking young girls to Pakistan “on Holiday.”
He said:
“Well that’s why we need to make sure that we’ve got proper procedures in place, and I really pay tribute to the forced marriage unit..”
In other words, if a Pakistani family takes a young girl off to Pakistan, we must jump on them straight away.”
Sarah Montague let it go … well she had to really.
Ha ha. I thought it was funny anyway.
Brown really is scraping the bottom of the barrel putting this clown in the foreign office
Spineless appeasers.
'…there might be a temptation that if someone goes on holiday to Pakistan…'
Holiday in Pakistan? A brilliant display of Beeboid naivity. Apart from angry young males of No Discernible Religious Affiliation going to train to kill and maim the Infidels, and prepubescent girls being kidnapped to sent to marry some old man they've never met, what Briton in their right mind would go to Pakistan on holiday?
'I feel like a holiday. I'm a moron, so I want to go go some Third World shithole because going on holiday to somewhere nice to have fun and relax is so passe. But which one? There are so many to choose from. I know, I'll go to Pakistan, which looks like it'll be the locus of the next world war. Not only can I be miserable, but I also stand a good chance of being violently killed. Whoopee!'
Naivety even.
An Anonymous commenter pointed out an article on this yesterday, saying "Spot the missing word." The BBC did their usual kowtowing to Mohammedan sensibilities, which they will not do for any other religion.
I replied: man, those Pakistani Hindus are a surly bunch.
'I feel like a holiday. I'm a moron, so I want to go go some Third World shithole because going on holiday to somewhere nice to have fun and relax is so passe. But which one? There are so many to choose from. I know, I'll go to Pakistan, which looks like it'll be the locus of the next world war. Not only can I be miserable, but I also stand a good chance of being violently killed. Whoopee!'
Mr McNamara,
I regret to inform you that your application to join the Pakistan Tourist Board has not been successful.
Chris Bryant wouldn't last long in Pakistan running around in his pants exposing himself.
Pakistani muslims engage in what is effect the slave trade in children, its that ugly and that simple!
They do this under the cover of custom BUT the plain fact is that children are bought and sold for cash and passports, traded like farm animals for clan gain, telling like it is will be hard to hear for many, many simply cannot fathom that in 21st century Britain these things could go on and yet this terrible fate is handed out on a daily basis.
Those who have the nerve to rebel are liable to be murdered/butchered like cattle, welcome to the third world a world that we left behind centuries ago.
Can any of us imagine being sold into a life of farm animal like slavery as a young girl and the insufferable pain that goes with it? yet its happening and a weak appeasing socialist regime(and tory-libdem)wrings their collective hands, shrugs their collevtive shoulders and gives tacit approval.
A real government would hand out ten year jail terms for anyone caught indulging in this evil slave trade, anyone caught exporting slaves or importing them should be stripped of their passports, jailed then deported with massive fines on top, this would end the trade instantly!
There is nothing the muslim slave traders love more than infidel money and infidel passports which they use to bleed the system white, the threat of taking this 'golden pass' will keep them toeing the line.
My post is hard to assimilate and comprehend I know but the truth hurts the ears of those who wish to hide from it.
Chris Bryant is gay, what fate would he endure if the islamists had their way? yet his kind toady and cringe before those who would happily either kack his head off of hang him, what warped values flow through the mind of a person like Bryant, what thoughts cross his mind as he grovels and prostrates himself before those who would happily and thoroughly exterminate him and his kind?
BTW & FWIW I am gay and I despise,fear and hate those who would kill my kind!
Actually, Pakistan is , mostly quite a nice country to go to on holiday, but I wonder how many Beeboids have been there on holiday, paying their own way, incognito ?
cassandra @ 5:02 PM
BTW & FWIW I am gay and I despise,fear and hate those who would kill my kind!
But…but…but…they wouldn't do it if only we understood them better and reached out to them. Right? Oh, wait….
Grant's remarks look dumb to me.
Of all the parts of the Himalayas, Pakistan would be the last country to choose to venture – if only for safety reasons.
And other than the mountains – what the hell has Pakistan got except urban and rural squalor ? What notable art or architecture ? What historic sights ? What diving and snorkelling ? What culture ?
Anon at 7.18pm was me
George R:
A mate of mine (Yorkshire born Muslim) accompanied his Dad back to Pakistan after his Dad had lived here 30 yrs, to sort out some property issues in his village.
On arrival, he was told that the true purpose of his visit was to marry his cousin who was 13 yrs old, and after deadly threats he agreed.
She came to the UK to live when she was 17 (he'd only seen her once when she was 13), and as a westernised lad, he just made her stay home all the time whilst he went out with his mates.
There was no discussion or opinion allowed about the situation, and I am not friendly with him anymore.
As a Bradford lad myself I also see other 'cultural' effects of Islam whenever I venture out, and it's things like 'squat toilets' being provided in modern industrial buildings, and new Mosques being built skew-if to the lines of other buildings, because they have to face Mecca!
The main daily annoyance is seeing subservient women in full black burquas (the lefties know what it is, but insist on calling it a Niqab, because they have been instructed to use proper language), rushing about a Yorkshire industrial city, and in the main, contributing nothing to mainstream society.
mickfly
What is needed is a thorough analysis of specific areas – eg Bradford, East London etc – asking :
What (after decades of immigration) are the unemployment rates among various ethnicities, age groups – and between the sexes
What are the educational levels reached ?
What proportions rely on social services / social benefits ?
What proportions are represented in the prison population ?
and – perhaps most importantly, some realistic assessments of attitudes to assimilation.
You might find this article on the number of muslims in the UK of interest:
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/07/muslims-mosques-and-mosquitoes.html#readfurther
Anonymous 7:18
Your comments show that you are the dumb one, and have obviously never been to Pakistan.
An analogy would be someone saying "The UK has the highest crime rate in the western world and there is nothing to see there".
Daft.
JohnA 7:19
I didn't scroll down , so thought you were one of the "Anonymice" !
Apologies for my somewhat intemperate reply , as I normally agree with your posts !
I guess that my point is that one should not comment to deeply about a country if you haven't visited it. Maybe you have been to Pakistan and had a bad experience.
I shall never forget Ian Botham's comment after a cricket tour there, when he said about Pakistan " I wouldn't send my mother-in-law there !
Grant
I am happy to take Ian Botham's judgment about Pakistan.
I travel a lot, like going to new places. But I really don't know of anything in Pakistan worth seeing – other than the Himalayan region. And that region is off-limits these days, for safety reasons. And trekking facilities are far better in Nepal and India.
I have never read or heard of any other places or sights in Pakistan that are worth visiting in preference to other parts of Asia.
The lack of any real tourism industry in Pakistan is perhaps the best measure of its paucity of attractions.