Fishy. Some days ago, the excellent Bishop Hill site broke the news that – rather bizzarely – the police National Domestic Extremism Unit is involved in investigating the ClimateGate leak at the University of East Anglia. The BBC has finally woken up to the story, and there are worrying signs that it is somehow part of the saga. First of all, it adamantly describes the leak as a “hack” even though this has not yet been established. Second, they have this extremely odd quote from the police:
“At present we have two police officers assisting Norfolk with their investigation, and we have also provided computer forensic expertise. While this is not strictly a domestic extremism matter, as a national police unit we had the expertise and resource to assist with this investigation, as well as good background knowledge of climate change issues in relation to criminal investigations.”
If I had been the journalist covering this story, I’d be asking first of all what the hell a terrorist unit is doing involved in ‘climate change’and what “expertise” in this field they claim to have. Second, with the world still on terrorist alert after the latest attempt to blow up a plane, how can a terrorist unit spare resources to investigate file hacking (if indeed, that is what it was) when the only ‘victim’ of this alleged crime is academic internal mail – and the leak was in any case in the public interest?
But not the BBC. It’s creepy beyond words that Climategate should be bracketed by the police as a terrorism incident, and equally so that the BBC should broadcast this chilling quote without asking such basic questions. My guess is that the police asked the BBC to carry the story as damage limitation because they suddenly realised that linking Climategate to terrorism was extremely questionable. In overall terms, the BBC has dismissed the importance of Climategate, but if it will provide material to attack ‘deniers’, they are on the case like a rat up a drain pipe.
“good background knowledge of climate change issues in relation to criminal investigations “.
The BBC should be fearlessly asking the police what they mean by that.
What other police investigations are taking place in relation to “climate change issues” ? And under which law, precisely ?
Are there any prosecutions planned ?
Is this part of a plan to make any “denial ” of Global Warming a criminal offence ? Or indeed any action which may expose the
scam ?
Am I alone in fearing the British police more than I fear terrorists ?
i dont trust the police one bit, but maybe they are investigating phil jones and the CRU, obvious they have obtained research money by deception
maybe beeboid scumbags are to trusting of the police and dont see what they are doing
the beeboids seem to always refer to the event as stolen emails, but how many times have we heard the beeboids say “documents leaked to the BBC”
And check out the computer-modelled picture and caption.
How the hell does the National Domestic Extremism Unit already have “good background knowledge of climate change issues in relation to criminal investigations”? What does that even mean? They have all the latest pamphlets from the Met Office? Do they have a meteorologist on staff in an extremist crime unit? But seriously, how many other extremist crimes have they investigated involving climate change issues? How are climate change issues so inextricably linked with extremist crime that the NDEU already has good background knowledge of them? I bet it’s not because of all those death threats and acts of vandalism by eco-nutters.
And what do “climate change issues” have to do with a relatively straightforward data theft investigation? This is supposedly about hacking and data theft. The political issues surrounding the people involved have nothing to do with it.
The BBC isn’t interested in asking those questions, because they’re already on side. They want it to be labeled “extremist” because the BBC and the Government view climate change deniers as extremists.
“What does that even mean? They have all the latest pamphlets from the Met Office?”
Heh.
No, it means they are keeping tabs on you…and you…and you…climate “deniers”. Even as we type, they are watching…and waiting.
Just like the Nazis (the BBC is the SS and the Liebour party vermin are the Gestapo) if you don’t agree with the BBc/Nu Liebour stance you are deemed a terrorist and dragged away.
Remember poor old Walter Wolfgang http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00258/walter_wolfgang_258846s.jpg
Dragged away by thick inbred scum (the Police) under terrorism legislation simpyl for saying rubbish to professional turd sniffer Jack man of Straw.
The Liebour party should be thrown out of power and locked in prison for this ONE single event only.
Damien Green was arrested under terrorism legislation. It seems this bunch of scumbag Socialists use the Police and BBC to do their vile work.
Good point. I forgot about Damien Green. The problem is that once this government power exists, the next Administration will still have that power knowing that they can get away with it too. Do you think Cameron won’t sic the Terrorist or Extremist Units on climate deniers or political opponents? He’s a fully paid-up member of the Warmist crowd, so it’s not looking good.
The difference is back bench Tory MP’s have always generally been more powerful and outspoken than Liebour goons. Also, it’s likely that Cameron won’t get a massive majority in May, perhaps 20 or 30 seats, that means Cameron will have to deal with his own right wing awkward squad.
He will have to throw them some bones to keep them happy, kicking the shit out of the BBC will be one and dealing with the climate change scum at East Anglia and the Met office might be the other.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Looks like the State are taking action against the nayseyers and their propaganda arm are doing their part.
Socialism – grate, doesn’t it..
So what is new ? The police are the para-military wing of New Labour and the BBC the propaganda wing.
One positive note is that, if the police find a “mole” and he/she ( and wouldn’t it be wonderful if it were a muslim woman ! ) is prosecuted , they may create a martyr. But, given the dumbed down docility of most British these days, I doubt if it will make much difference.
The police should be investigating the scum at East Anglia but for any evidence that they have been distorting the truth to get public money. I’m sure THAT is an offence.
“Climategate … bracketed by the police as a terrorism incident”
No they haven’t. The spokesman clearly says that the investigation is being led by Norfolk Police and Counter Terrorism Unit is offering assistance. This would be the opposite way round if it was being looked at as a terrorism incident.
“what “expertise” in this field they claim to have.”
The police investigate extremist climate activists (including threats to national infrastructure such as the Drax Powerstation and Kingsnorth incidents) as counter terrorism so I imagine that is the expertise they are referring too.
“with the world still on terrorist alert after the latest attempt to blow up a plane, how can a terrorist unit spare resources to investigate file hacking”
Well, here in the real world, Police resources tend to be either proactive or reactive. Reactive units such as investigation teams can’t do much until an incident has occurred so they assist with other enquires. I’m sure you all remember that Damian Green was actually arrested by counter terrorist officers. Again, this was an example of officers from a specialist unit assisting a separate enquiry. The unfortunate (but hilarious) result of this is that over-excitable bloggers such as this start to see conspiracies everywhere…
Paulo I see your point re Police intelligence on climate change activists but the hacking/leaking of these emails clearly wasn’t by those people. Instead it was either by a climate sceptic or more likely by a pissed off member of staff so I can’t see this Police unit being a great deal of help unless they are planning on increasing their remit.
Can’t you see why we think the BBC should have asked more questions instead of just reading a press release out ? It comes across as very shoddy journalism.
Who said anything about a conspiracy? This is an open statement by the people in charge that they believe extremism is somehow involved in the leaking of emails from the CRU.
The police investigate extremist climate activists (including threats to national infrastructure such as the Drax Powerstation and Kingsnorth incidents) as counter terrorism so I imagine that is the expertise they are referring too.
Really? You’re saying that the police suspect this leak was perpetrated by the same kind of extremist who engages in that sort of vandalism? Baloney. What they’re saying is that someone who is trying to expose the fraud going on at the CRU must necessarily be an extremist, willing to engage in violence of some kind. The authorities are making a very clear, strong statement here.
As for your comment about Damian Green, nobody has been arrested in this case yet, so you can’t dismiss Martin’s point so easily.
Which ‘point’ of Martin’s? Martin said that Damien green was arrested under counter terrorism legislation which is completely wrong.
As for your other points, please read my 20:51 post.
There wouldn’t be a counter terrorism unit if not for the existence of counter terrorism legislation. Martin is still correct.
I see only the one comment from you on this thread. Which other post of yours have I not read?
He was arrested for “aiding and abetting misconduct in public office.”
Martin said: “Damien Green was arrested under terrorism legislation.”
Counter terrorism plods should be out nicking terrorists NOT Tory MPs. Wolfgang WAS detained under the Terrorism act when he tried to get back into the Labour party conference. Damien Green was arrested by counter terrorism officers, why were they required to do that? Couldn’t the local plods from Kent manage that simple job? not that Green should have been arrested at all, but you come across as a typical leftie so I guess your beloved Liebour/BBC Gestapo/SS can do no wrong?
“Couldn’t the local plods from Kent manage that simple job?”
Damian Green was arrested in London, where the Special Branch has been absorbed into the Counter Terrorism Command. All the non-Counter-terrorism plods didn’t suddenly lose their experience of other specialist policing just because their unit was reorganised.
To mirror the gobsmacked bewilderment of fellow posters
“as well as good background knowledge of climate change issues in relation to criminal investigations.”
What the hell does THAT mean.
Plod is looking into “climate change” as a motivation for scrotes to do scrotish things.
God help us.
“Again, this was an example of officers from a specialist unit assisting a separate enquiry.”
Why?
John:
Because if you read the article on the telegraph article I linked to earlier it says that Damian Green was not arrested under counter terrorism legislation (unlike what Martin claimed earlier). Believe me, I’m not defending that complete farce but never was any mention of a counter terrorism investigation made by anyone.
1327:
In reply to your comment earlier, the police would never reveal the details of an on-going enquiry (unless it was of benefit to the enquiry) so I doubt they’ll ever explain the exact nature of the investigation. However, from the quote:
“as well as good background knowledge of climate change issues in relation to criminal investigations.”
I would imagine it is exactly as described on the tin. They have experience (unlike PC Plod in Norfolk) of dealing with people motivated by climate issues to commit a crime and so are far better qualified to investigate.
Like you say, whether this was a hack or leak has not been established (in the public domain) yet. However, remember, whoever got hold of the zip file then hacked into realclimate (a pro-‘warmist’) site to upload the file. They then posted the realclimate link to it from Climateaudit (pro-‘denier’). This does (to me at least) hint that it may well have been hackers involved. Theres an interesting article on it from a techy point of view here.
To be honest, I imagine it is for investigation of these complex technical angles that the national terrorist people got involved.
Okay, this comment appeared after I submitted my last reply to your other comment.
They have experience (unlike PC Plod in Norfolk) of dealing with people motivated by climate issues to commit a crime and so are far better qualified to investigate.
Excuse me, but this is exactly what’s wrong with this whole picture. What you’re saying is that the Extremism Unit is the qualified and has authority to deal with any activities involving climate issues. What nonense. The issues involved don’t make the acts extremist: the acts themselves are extreme.
Paulo
You’re being deliberately disingenuous in your claims that the Counter Terrorist legislation was not used against Damien Green. At the time of the arrest, the Government was spinning frantically that the leaks to Damien Green were a threat to national security. (I clearly remember an interview given by the Dark Lord Mandelson which was full of innuendo that when the full story came out, Jacqui Smith’s decision to send in the Special Branch would be seen to have been justified.) The Commons authorities were bounced into giving the police access on this basis. Anti-terrorist charges were never brought against Green, but national security was certainly used in the justification for the raid.
Paulo 19:34
Are you suggesting that the police believe there to be a terrorist threat by Global Warming “deniers” ?
Of course not, I would be as stunned/appalled as the next man if an arrest is made under counter-terrorism legislation. This is clearly just a matter of a unit experienced in dealing with people who feel strongly about the environment assisting the local force. I agree that after the Damien Green episode you would think that the police would be wary of using Counter Terrorism police for anything but terrorists but my guess would be it is a funding thing.
So are you suggesting that the anti Terrorism unit investigate the Daily telegraph for getting hold of the MP expenses?
The anti terror Police should be keeping us safe by nicking Muslims.
The police investigate extremist climate activists (including threats to national infrastructure such as the Drax Powerstation and Kingsnorth incidents) as counter terrorism so I imagine that is the expertise they are referring too. “
Police do not have to use “terrorist” teams to investigate “hacks” they have quite able computer forensic teams who can deal with it.
And as far as I can see the “hacked” emails did not threaten power plant or Nuclear facility infrastructure – so what specilaist “climate change” criminal investigations are they leading?
If only the BBC would do their job all would be clear, but because they are one of the biggest culprits in the “catastrophic climage change” theory is it any wonder that their motives in not asking questions is speculated on.
John.
I quote you the statement which created this laughable conspiracy theory:
“this is not strictly a domestic extremism matter, as a national police unit we had the expertise and resource to assist with this investigation, as well as good background knowledge of climate change issues in relation to criminal investigations.”
To break it down into simple points for you:
1. Not a domestic extremist matter.
2. Able to offer expertise and resources which are not readily available to Norfolk Police.
3. Knowledge of climate change issues in relation to criminal investigations.
Regarding point 3 I would say that it is fairly apparent that what the spokesman is referring to is cases such as kingsnorth etc. Presumably the 2 officers which are assisting Norfolk Police are once that dealt with cases such as Kingsnorth and therefore have some understanding of the issues surrounding climate change.
I really don’t know how plainer to make it.
“2. Able to offer expertise and resources which are not readily available to Norfolk Police. “
But they have a computer forensic team on their doorstep.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=NOED09%20Oct%202009%2017%3A28%3A48%3A827
“To break it down into simple points for you: ”
Please don’t patronise me
Kingsnorth was an operation to stop people from gaining entry to a power station – it has nothing to do with ” knowledge of climate change issues” . This is what is being questioned
“But they have a computer forensic team on their doorstep. “
Except that unit is from Suffolk Police, not Norfolk. I have no idea how inter-force resource works and neither do you. All I can say is that the NETCU spokesman clearly feels they have something to offer from an expertise and resources angle. The original BBC article points out that computer forensic assistance was being provided.
“Please don’t patronise me “
I apologise but your persisting confusion over this issue is baffling.
“Kingsnorth was an operation to stop people from gaining entry to a power station – it has nothing to do with ” knowledge of climate change issues” .”
Perhaps my mentioning of Kingsnorth has been a distraction, it was just the first example that came to mind. However I would say that the motive behind kingsnorth was climate change and I’m fairly certain the Police tend to investigate motives. However it is easier to point you again to the NETCU website where ‘environmentalism’ is mentioned as one of the areas they investigate. Therefore, I would imagine that they are one of the first ports of call with regard to any alleged crime which has an ‘environmentalist’ angle (from either side).
“Except that unit is from Suffolk Police, not Norfolk. I have no idea how inter-force resource works and neither do you”
Are you sure?
The bit about the crime unit having forensic computer expertise is a valid reason for their involvement. It’s a sad statement that only a unit focusing on extremist crime would have such expertise, but never mind. One would have thought the police or somebody else had one or two computer guys on hand. The actual problem is the automatic assumption that whoever leaked the emails is an extremist, simply because of the issue involved.
I’ve had a look at the NETCU website, and all it says is that they associate extremist crimes with certain hot-button issues. Fair enough.
However, there is no logical reason to assume that there is any extremist involved – unless one assumes that all possible crimes involving anything to do with climate change are perpetrated by extremists. I’d nearly agree with that, except for the fact that this would mean assuming that only an extremist would attempt to blow the whistle on the CRU. Such a premise would by default mean that anyone doubting Warmism is by definition an extremist. I find that highly questionable, never mind severely troubling.
The involvement of the NETCU is a direct public statement that the government assumes that whoever leaked the emails is an extremist. The term has a negative connotation, and the NETCU’s involvement here automatically demonizes the leaker, as well as the position he seems to have taken on the issue. The fact that they were called in speaks volumes about the Warmist beliefs of the people in charge.
Is it possible we are all looking for conspiracy theories where none exist?
The truth is no one, including the Police, BBC and B-BBC really ‘know’ what happened at CRU. Looking at some of the theories around the Internet it’s ‘possible’ that the episode has international implications – the Russians; financial implications – the multi billion dollar carbon trade and potential anti-warming taxes; domestic political implications – Global Warming as a party political issue; terrorism/hooliganism – as seen by riots at Copenhagen and sabotage attempts around power stations, etc. On the other hand it ‘could’ be a simple hacking case or my personal favourite, a disgruntled CRU scientist.
The Police are in a quandary If they display too little interest they will be attacked should the matter be proved more sinister. If they overreact they will be attacked as wasters of time and money.So they make a declaration, “our best detectives are on the job”. Then they appoint a unit that has at least some connection with the subject.
The BBC on the other hand has an agenda. They would much prefer a terrorist attack because that diverts attention from the apparent fraud of Global Warming.
stop and search story
– no mention that the incidents occured just days after 9/11
no mention of the trial of “britain’s senior asian policeman” on the 10 o’clock news tonight.
“stop and search story
– no mention that the incidents occured just days after 9/11″
Because they occurred two years after 9/11, on the 9th September 2003.
Whatever the truth is, I just can’t help feeling that we are moving towards a situation that Global Warming “deniers” or even sceptics, and anyone who assists them will be treated as criminals.
It would certainly fit in with other Government policies which treat reasonable behaviour as criminal.
Let’s hope I am wrong.
Grant
CRU shot itself in the foot on the day that the Cimategate material was posted on the net. If they had been briefed in the dark arts, they would simply have claimed that the material was faked and relied on the tame media to support them. Instead, someone appears to have panicked and confirmed that some or all of the material was genuine, just taken out of context. Ever since, they’ve been trying to find ways to limit the damage.
In the longer term, they know that the best way to stop a repetition is to put the frighteners on any other potentially disaffected staff/students at UEA, hence the involvement of the police. (The use of specialist officers, whether they are counter terrorist officers or the forensic IT boys, is much more intimidating than a visit from a PCSO.)
Sceptical Steve – I could be wrong but I do wonder if CRU live in fear of even more damaging emails being released ?
I’m still convinced this was a staff leak however given how the material appears to come from both the email server and a network file store.
1327
I agree with you. U don’t think everyone at East Anglia agrees with the hysteria about global warming – and “Harry” sounded really pissed off with things he was being asked to do to re-cook the figures.
Surwely, what the police should be investigating , is the obtaining of public funds by deception, by the disgraced staff member at UEA ?
Your’re right, this quote from the police and the BBC’s reporting of it is extremely ODD.
What is basically says is that the police are concentrating their efforts on apprehending the source of the leaked files. What about keeping an eye on the eco-loonies – I consider them to be far more of a threat to our democracy – especially those that go around damaging building sites.
Sadly, the UK is no longer a free or a particularly democratic country. There is an entrenched attitude in favour of secrecy, confidentiality, and closed doors. “Domestic Extremism” is what lead to Michael Savage being banned by an out of control government.
Having said this their presence might just be for completely practical purposes, but I’m still not so sure. I have a sinking feeling that they are there to ensure no more whistleblowing takes place, our government are fully hypnotized by climate change nonsense after all. I cannot see a government that is actively pursuing legislative action in line with the AGW theory, prosecuting the CRU. If anyone gets prosecuted, it will be the person(s) who took the files and distributed them.
However, as someone on climateaudit said “If this was a hacking and it was money, the people that could trace it would have done so within hours.” I think the guy who took the files knew what he was doing and took sufficient steps to cover his tracks eg took the files offsite on a DVD, and uploaded to the web via a publically accessible site… A “hacker” might not have been able to cover his tracks.
The original hacker, who is probably still freely circulating the UEA campus, implied that only selected e-mails were posted on the server – a possibility for more revelations perhaps, especially if the swines at the CRU attempt to go the route of whitewash?
Paulo Scott Pingu and all the other eco nutters can you answer one simple question?
Have any of you ever heard of or come across on any media any reference to climate extremists who were not warmers.
What knowledge will the terror police have of people whos only extreme view is to not believe the shit that McSnot and Al Gore shovel.
Why these pseudo spooks are checking out who leaked a few emails about the bloody weather real terrorists and nutters are wandering around. Real killers with hate in their hearts and semtex in their hands.
But no, our wonderul British Bobbies are being sent on a wild goose chase to shut the door after the horse has bolted.
Instead of protecting the real lives of you and me the tax payer they are protecting the political lives of the propoganda shovellers.
When they are talking about cutting funding to our armed services and requiring our lads to use baking trays for body armour we are wasting our security money on some dodgy poly in East anglia.
Good article mentions Shukmans ability to explain the recent cold
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/its-15-below-zero-as-weathermen-go-witch-hunting/story-e6frg6zo-1225818570353
“IT is snowing big time in my town in Kent. The family sits in front of the television to discover whether there is more of the white stuff to come. However, instead of an informative weather forecast we are offered a political broadcast.”