Now that the killer Raoul Moat has killed himself, the BBC are not happy. Their angle on the story is to query Police strategy and in particular the use of tasers, the use of negotiators, etc. The tone of the story is that Moat is some sort of victim. He isn’t. He was a killer. But then again BBC hatred of the force of law and order runs deep…
JUSTICE FOR MOATY
Bookmark the permalink.
I’m afraid that since the de Menezes murder by the police, I have no faith in their veracity. Is there any independent witness to Moat’s death to support the Police’s contention that he killed himself? Further, I would much prefer to be standing in front of a soldier with a weapon than a police person. And I reckon that the Moat episode demonstrated the incompetence of the police forces in our country. It seems to me that we’re on our own when it comes to protecting ourselves. They haven’t got a clue. What on earth are we paying for?
Bollox
I’m afraid I have to agree with John. It was long before the de Menzes case where I totally lost any respect I ever had for the police. Ever since they became a political police “service” they lost their role as protectors of the public to protectors of the state.
John in Cheshire – How do you know that the armed police officers were not ex-soldiers? A lot of them are you know. Also a medical examination has stated the the child-beating murderer called Moat died as a result of wounds consistent with the weapon he was holding. Therefore it proves you are a prat and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
John Horne Tooke – You are entitled to your opinion. Have you thought of becoming a special constable like I am? You know. Giving up your free time to prevent crime? Getting shot in the face whilst doing your job like PC Rathband who is scarred for life and blinded? You didnt know about that? Not surprising because the BBC and all th other ‘news’ outlets are not interested in the police officer.
I lost respect for the police not the individual officer. There is a difference. I have worked with the police and the hiearchy are political there is no doubt about that this is confirmed even by the polices own blogs.
Moat got what he deserved, he’s not Brazilian electrician. The issue I have is with a woman Chief Constable who looks like she did a degree in ‘Wimmins’ issues’ to get her promotion in the plod force.
How the hell that storm drain never got searched or even watched is beyond me, Tornado jets flying overhead looks good on Sky News but what happened to good old fashioned plodding?
The Police spend far too much time pissing about with “uman rites” rather than slotting scum.
Personally Moat should have been slotted by a sniper the moment they had him cornered.
Wimmins’ issues? Well she was Head of Community Relations with responsibility for implementing the Race Equality Scheme at Merseyside Police. Perfect training for dealing with armed and mobile nutters.
I especially liked the bit on her biog that said she was Operational Commander for the Ian Brady hunger strike. Tricky job that; managing a locked up person who’s not eating…
Your comments on De Menzes are absolutely revolting.
The approach the Police took to taking Moat alive was exactly the approach forces would have taken in my living memory (I’m 46).
I doubt there is one serving or retired officer who shares your repugnant view on De Menzes.
I wasn’t saying De Menezes got what he deserved, I was saying the opposite, you can’t compare Moat (a violent killer) to him. The plods screwed up with De Menezes big time but Moat should have been slotted the moment they cornered him.
If you run around the streets of the UK with a shotgun blowing people away you have no rights in my view. The job of the plods is to eliminate scum like Moat.
Uuf! Profound apologies!!
I had finger problems as well!
“Is there any independent witness to Moat’s death to support the Police’s contention that he killed himself?”
Well, only the assembled british press and multiple local residents, but don’t let that spoil your conspiracy theory that poor old Moat was viciously murdered by the police…
“I would much prefer to be standing in front of a soldier with a weapon than a police person.”
Really? Good luck with that. The Army are trained that the people they are facing are there to try and kill them whilst the police are trained to deal with the British public. I know who I’d rather be facing on a dark night.
“the Moat episode demonstrated the incompetence of the police forces in our country.”
Bringing the manhunt of a dangerous armed individual to conclusion without the harming of any other persons? Yes, what a complete farce. I’d love to know what bright ideas you have for how else they could have run a complicated and dangerous operation spread over hundreds of square miles.
“Ever since they became a political police “service” they lost their role as protectors of the public to protectors of the state.”
John, the police are charged with enforcing the laws of the country, not making them. Blame the politicians for passing them in the first place but the police cannot pick and choose which laws they enforce.
“..the police are charged with enforcing the laws of the country, not making them.”
In most cases I would agree but not all. The police hiarchy have become a polical lobby group. I could mention Sir Ian Blair who campaigned for the 42 days detention without trial on behalf of Labour. Also check out people like Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom
“”One of Britain’s most senior police officers is to call for all drugs – including heroin and cocaine – to be legalised and urges the Government to declare an end to the “failed” war on illegal narcotics.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/legalise-all-drugs-chief-constable-demands-end-to-immoral-laws-396884.html
Also Philip Gormley, Deputy Chief Constable of West Midlands Police, and there are more. These people are not witholding the law, but publically lobbying for or changes to laws passed by Parliament.They are in effect challenging the law in public, which is a political act.
For “These people are not witholding the law” read “These people are not upholding the law”
One must always avoid being over-critical of the Police who put themselves at risk to protect us from crime, but quite simply the British Police have passed from being a huge source of national pride to an embarrassment.
Several things come to mind.
Not that long ago it was unthinkable that a Chief Constable would be a guest on Any Questions or Question Time as Police Officers must be seen to be politically impartial. This hallowed convention has now been breached several times.
The arrest in the House of Commons – in the House of Commons – of Shadow Home Secretary Dominic Grieve in a leaks inquiry. The Met officer who authorised this, Bob Quick, besides widely reputed as a NuLabour flunkey and on record as having made anti-Tory comments, was the totally incompetent berk who entered No 10 with Top Secret documents on display on Al Qa’eda suspects that meant their arrests had to be bought forward and in the end they couldn’t be convicted because Quick’s criminal incompetence meant the Police didn’t have enough time to gather the necessary evidence.
Dick Kirby, highly decorated Flying Squad Officer from the late 60’s to early 80’s and author of several books, was once asked in interview if he missed being in the Met. His reply was that the Met he belonged to simply doesn’t exist any more. It has been destroyed by Political Correctness.
Hippie,
Quite agree. No doubt there are many good individual policemen, the the “service” as a whole has gone downhill under the last government.
“but the police cannot pick and choose which laws they enforce.”
The real life TV shows about British police on duty overwhelmingly feature the police going after motorists, telling shops to close at a certain time and arresting people for swearing, not to mention most of the cops featured have a “I’m a cop and I can and will treat you like crap” attitude
So you think that the only thing the police do is what is shown on TV? And nobody would be arrested for just swearing in public. You have completely cherry-picked your wording. People are arrested for swearing in public when they have generally done something else. The arrest for S5 POA is not just for swearing. So you think that police routinely go up to someone strolling in the street and treat them like crap? People are stopped in cars for all manor of things from no insurance to drink driving. Your post is actually quite pointless.
“The issue I have is with a woman Chief Constable who looks like she did a degree in ‘Wimmins’ issues’ to get her promotion in the plod force.”
Ah, nothing like a bit of old fashioned misogyny…
“How the hell that storm drain never got searched or even watched is beyond me”
Hindsight is a powerful thing. I presume you were bouncing up and down two days ago shouting at the telly “just search the storm drains you idiots!”
“what happened to good old fashioned plodding?” Presumably ‘good old plodding’ means sending a bobby down a drain to see if there’s a bloke with a sawn-off shotgun down there. Good luck finding a volunteer for that duty…
Could send a Plod dog down there that hasn’t been fed for a few days. I’m sure it might find him and clearly it wasn’t searched.
The Police were send on a merry chase by this bloke.
And yes the female plod in charge sums up all that is crap about the plods today.
Paulo – Hindsight is a wonderful thing isnt it? I have never known so many ‘experts’ like Jon Sloppy (Sopel) asking why the police couldnt taser Moat before he blew his own head off. Some chap on the Daily Wail (sic) wondered why the policed didnt use a tranquiliser gun like they do with animals! Where do they get these f*ckwits from? I am convinced that there are now so many ‘experts’ out there in their armchairs (or working for the BBC!) that there is no need for police. Who ya gonna call? ‘THE EXPERTS’ who incidentally are sitting cosily in their armchairs.
S’true. It’s the wisdom of bloke-down-the-pub. If that rubbish was all true, Moat would have been caught within 1o mins, no taxi gunman nutter, Afghanistan would be peaceful and we’d have won the World Cup.
Hindsight? Most people have 20:20 vision.
I’m sorry, (and I know I am going to be roasted and austracised for this) but do people not have any right to ask how the operation to catch Moat was decided upon? What is wrong with asking out of niavety if a tazer could have ended things differently? The asker could then politley be shown the error of his questioning. Surley police operations of this kind should be disected and lessons learned in case the situation happens again. Yes hindsight is wonderful but it is also where lessons are learnt.
The police are there to reasure the public (in theory) therefore the public should not be labelled as “fuckwits” for asking stupid questions.
Perfectly reasonable question. There’s a world of difference between responsibly asking ourselves after any major situation “why did we do what we did, should we have given more thought to other options, what can we learn for next time” and what thespecialone is getting at….going on the media and blindly insisting that it never would have got like that if we’d called in the SAS/SBS or SPAG by the 2nd lunchtime.
Exactly. There’s a world of difference between constructive examination and being in such a rush to make yourself look clever that the questions you ask show what a self-preening dick you are. ‘Tranquilizer dart!’ EEK!
ASE, I’m rather worried you know so much about the Chief Constable. Must have been the hair wot dun it. 🙂
Well sorry but i believe that every time a policeman pulls the trigger a full independent inquiry must take place ! there is a fine line between enforcing the law and becoming the law !.
It seems to have escaped your attention that the Police didn’t shoot moat, he shot himself. This is borne out from the autopsy.
No doubt there will be an inquiry to see what lessons can be learnt in how the matter was handled. With such inquiries we always need to be vigilant that no cover-up takes place. But lets wait and see shall we, instead of jumping the gun and make a very difficult job even more difficult for the Police to do?
MOAT TIMELINE:
1.17am: “Mr Moat, good news… your friend Gazza is here to help resolve this incident.”
1.18am: BANG.
Three Points:
1. No one should be above the law, including the police.
2. The BBC cares more about the “rights” of criminals, than victims. Unless it’s that Brazilian illegal immigrant that was shot when the country was in a state of HYSTERIA over the public murder of its fellow citizens.
3. When an “incident” is in progress, the media to a man demands ACTION. When it’s all over they demand PERFECTION.
I also noticed how the bBC have elevated Mr (I’ve a big hole in my head) Moat as some form of victim of police brutality. You know what I am actually glad he is brown bread. (And you can quote me on that) In this day and age of human rights, appeals and pay outs for hurt feelings. It is of no surprise to find the usual suspects promoting this murderer as only a victim.
I’ll tell you who the victims are:
The murdered man
The shot girlfriend
The shot policeman
The Brtiish public for having to out up with a blow by blow account about this thug:
“Here is moat at 6, at 12, here he is having a shite, here is is ex girlfriend, here is a man who knows the man who lives across the road from the woman who went to school with the man who lives across the road from his mother.”
He lived by the sword, he died by it, f-ing live with it bBC. I only thank allah he wasn’t a Muslim.
pounce! I concur. Heartily.
I don’t have one ounce of sympathy for Moaty. Or his family.
No doubt “Cherie Blair” or that other female wanker “Gareth Pearce” will be representing the family trying to get “compenation” i.e. more tax handouts to deadbeats.
We’re all guilty, doncha know. Except the criminals. They’re all innocent; and victims of “society”.
Like you mate, I am effing sick of the shite we have to put up with from white, middle-class, pampered Marxists who run every damn institution in this country. Including, it seems, the judiciary.
Speaking of the judiciary, some eminent Law Lord, Lord Hope, I think, revealed to us last week that the judiciary now speaks with the voice of the militant male homosexuals when he intoned that homosexuals like to go to Kylie concerts and not only that, but he compared them to straight people. He didn’t use the word heterosexuals or heterosexual people but the slang word straight.
Spot on Jack
Summed up perfectly Pounce! And Jack is correct too.
BBC just now giving the dead Moat’s brother a platform to complain about the police and the media. He said that the police basically acted as a firing squad and were awful, and that he could have talked his brother into surrendering peacefully. So where was he? He had ages to turn up at the site when the killer was trapped. The BBC didn’t ask, just let him talk freely. Pretty twisted to let him go on like that and not ask where the hell he’d been for the last 10 days and why he wasn’t on the TV like that friend of Moat’s was to tell the killer to give himself up.
The brother also complained that the media coverage made things worse, made the killer even more agitated and frightened. As if he wasn’t already worried the police were after him and was sneaking around. Moat didn’t kill anyone else after that first day, so claiming that things were made worse doesn’t add up.
And why didn’t the BBC ask the brother if he was upset with the half dozen people who helped the murderer on the day of the shootings and hid him out afterwards? Nope, BBC not interested, only caring about letting grieving family member insult the police.
The discussion about police and poltics above has just reminded me of something I meant to mention last week.
Did any of you happen to catch Ian Blair on The Daily Politics last week? The topic of discussion was local control of the police, elected commissioners etc. I forget who else was on the panel.
No sooner had Blair opened his mouth than he started with his objections, saying, what if you got a commissioner who was against immigration? (!) (As if that was self-evidently a bad thing!) And before he got to the end of the sentence he had brought in the BNP. I kid you not.
It’s interesting because he is a policeman, or was, and yet he didn’t look at the issue in the round or say what about if you got a corrupt commissioner who was pro immigration and was taking backhanders and turning a blind eye to illegal immigration rackets, smuggling, human trafficking, forced marriage, murders of women by family for so-called honour?
But I don’t recall anyone pulling him up on what would be wrong with being against immigration or putting the other half of the argument re potential scenarios that he so conveniently ignored or failed to mention.
While the BBC is playing up the killer Moat’s family anguish, have they asked the police whether or not they turned down the brother and uncle’s offer to help negotiate a peaceful surrender? I haven’t seen or heard it yet, and there isn’t a hint of it anywhere in the giant BBC News Online spread with all the gory details. If anything, one is left with the impression of a grossly incompetent and malicious police force.
Also, still no mention that PC Rothband is now blind.
Now that the dust has settled, I found an interview on the BBC Breakfast programme this morning matched my instinctive understanding of the past week’s events.
They were interviewing the former head of the Met’s Flying Squad, and he commented that the search for Moat amounted to a series of serious over-reactions. The man on the run was a paranoid fantasist armed with up to 2 firearms.
After the murder of his ex-bird’s new bloke, the police got wind that they were in danger and went into a defensive huddle, pulling officers off the beat and sending out for specialist reinforcements. All this was understandable, but pulling firearms teams from all over the country, borrowing armoured cars from the PSNI, and arranging a fly-past by an RAF Tornado did seem to be an inappropriate response to a disturbed inadequate whose ultimate ambition was to have his life ended in a final confrontaton with the police.
The police operation bore all the hallmarks of top-down management, where the Northumbrian police felt compelled to pull more and more rabbits out of the hat to meet the expectations of the press.
None of this is any criticism of the poor guys who were obliged to go looking for for Moat in extremely trying and dangerous circumstances, just their senior management.
I agree that the Police have become a political tool and a lot of the time the experience of the public when dealing with them is one of dissapointment.
Where I differ from the BBC is I believe the best outcome occurred. The man was a killer and an unhinged one at that so not having to keep him for years in prison is a good thing. It seems people have completely forgotten about the poor bloke he murdered, not to mention the harm he did to others.
Good thread on Moat here.
Good article by Peter Hitchens here.
Sky’s running a chiron on Moaty’s INQUEST starts tomorrow at 13.00!
Oh goody!
Now in a sane world this will last 5 minutes as the coroner opens the inquest, reads out the report that states the drugged up scummie died of a self-inflicted gunshot to his thicko skull.
And declares suicide by moron.
But will that happen? Nooooo. No doubt the local nobody coroner will want his month of fame.
And this will drag on and on and on.
Hey ho! It’s not like there important stuff going on.