Interesting piece here concerning Katty Kay;
“The umbrella organization of British Jewry criticized the BBC’s correspondent in Washington for referring to the “Jewish lobby” in a tweet about the U.S. election.
Katty Kay used the term in a question-and-answer session on Twitter, raising the ire of the Board of Deputies of British Jews. Kay was asked by a tweeter late last month why U.S presidential candidates Barack Obama and Mitt Romney became defensive when their commitment to Israel was questioned. She replied, “US sees #Israel as key ally in MidEast but no one running for Pres wants to alienate the power and money of the Jewish lobby.”
Board of Deputies head Jon Benjamin told the British newspaper The Jewish Chronicle that the reporter’s “loose use of language really has to be seen in a context where support for America’s key ally in the Middle East is cynically questioned — and the motives of Israel’s supporters are seen as suspect.” A BBC spokesman told the newspaper that Kay’s “primary point in responding was that the U.S. regards Israel as a key ally in the Middle East and also recognizes the importance and influence of this relationship on the voting.”
Katty Kay has been the subject of several posts here, all pointing to her unrestrained bias. I am sure she may WELL have problems with the “Jewish lobby”
Maybe you can actually explain the bias rather than insinuate one. There is a Jewish lobby in the US so what? Referring to it isn’t bias.what evidence is this of BBC bias? None of course.
On balance, I think it is a perjorative term. I think Kay’s use was lazy rather than pointed, but she shouldn’t have used the term.
Bloody hell.
JD yesterday I wrongly accused you of being a troll. Please accept my apologies.
The incessant propaganda from auntie makes you believe Jews are all one block, Jews have all the power and Jews wield an undue influence in the US. This is a characature straight out of 1930s Germany, with Uncle Sam being led by the nose by the ‘dirty Jew’. Unfortunately the left still believe this antisemitic bile. It should be seen for the outdated stereotype it is.
If this weeks elections in the US proves one thing it is that the US is a very diverse place and the myth of one group controlling it is just that. Obviously the Graun and the beeb would disagree, but they would wouldn’t they
I call it when I see it. I don’t think the BBC is anti-Semitic ( it has been accused of being run by Jews itself; Yentob etc).
But it often displays the worst kind of handwringing about Israel. I despair of Israel sometimes, and consider Netanyahu to be a dangerous fool. but no country has as great an argument for its existence as israel and as rational people and democrats we should support it.
In this statement Jim I cannot fault a word. Well said.
Proof if it were needed that these ‘trolls’ are able and willing to engage.
True Cleo me old girl true,
We still get Scott our pet drive-by troller but i am impressed by the non dogmatic current crop like yourself who are willing to properly discuss. Forgive us here if we sometimes react with knee jerk defensiveness and irritation it is just informed by the countless previous “visitors from the darkside” who have just wanted to wind up or spout crap and leave.
‘i am impressed by the non dogmatic current crop like yourself who are willing to properly discuss.’
True Paddytoplad me old lad true, from her first post it was clear proper discussion was the sole aim.
Ok fair enough but i am trying to build bridges. 😉
‘i am trying to build bridges. ‘
Blessed are the peacemakers.
However, from the Trojans on, there are some structures still better viewed with caution.
Especially if rapidly getting outnumbered by ‘guests’.
‘Proof if it were needed that these ‘trolls’ are able and willing to engage.
And engage first and second, and then… darn near a full 18-wheeler gearbox worth.
I clearly need a new ’employer’.
Jim, I don’t believe for minute that the BBC is anti-Semitic. However, things like this do encourage or add credence to anti-Jewish sentiment. That’s where the BBC often gets it wrong, and it’s their editorial policy which causes the problem.
There is a Jewish lobby in the US, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is a gun lobby, an automotive lobby, a pharma lobby — this is part of a healthy and functioning democracy.
The Jewish lobby is vociferous in its support for Israel — a country that I greatly admire and one which I just came back from. The lobby’s job is to promote Israel and to get a good deal for the country. That is what lobbying is.
To make the leap from talking about a Jewish lobby to suggesting this is evidence of anti-semitism is absurd.
There is a probably a lobby to promote oral hygiene, that doesn’t mean you are anti-toothbrush.
It doesn’t surprise me that Alan (i assume he is a man) — a man who is like a child with a hammer, everything looks like a nail — should attempt to link the two in a predictably ham-fisted way. It does surprise me that the Jewish Chronice should.
Then why not call it the Israel lobby?
Jews in the US were 70% behind Obama so it’s unlikely they’re four square behind AIPAC. It’s not AJPAC!
Oh I agree that had she said Israeli lobby none of this would have happened. But to claim that using the near synonym (in the context of lobbying) is evidence of anti-semitism is a nonsense.
There is a very large and very supportive Israeli diaspora in the US. The links between the Israeli diaspora and the Jewish community are obvious, so to use the term Jewish as a synonym for Israeli, while inaccurate, is not unreasonable.
I have just returned from Israel and interviewed a lot of people about Israel’s business successes in the US. Everyone talked about the strength of the Israeli community there.
But let’s not go too far off the story here. Would it have been better had this correspondent used the term Israeli? Probably. Is this evidence of anti-Semitism in the BBC? No.
Context is everything, of course. I happen to think that the context in which Kay mentioned the “Jewish lobby” gave no indication that it was meant pejoratively.
There is a history of that phrasing being used in a pejorative manner, though, so you can understand why people may wish it to not be used, for the avoidance of doubt if nothing else. Some have suggested referring to a “pro-Israel lobby” instead – but even that has connotations about how people may view Israeli government politics & actions, as opposed to the state as a whole.
Funny, isn’t it, though: the whole “please don’t use this term as it could cause offence, and there are other more neutral ones that we’d prefer you use” is exactly the sort of political correctness that those chastising Kay tend to rail against…
Scott, you are a true believer, in your mind auntie never crosses the line and is totally benign, probably because their views are broadly intune with your own. I however do not wear your rosey spectacles. The beeb has been caught out previously with its anti israeli bias (case in point the crying fiasco over Yasar arrafat) , with this anti israeli bias they let in many anti jewish comments which would never be allowed if referring to other religions. The anti israeli Trojan horse is used by all manner of leftists to attack the jewish community for totally unconnected things. There is a hidden agenda to sneer at percieved jewish wealth. The Pejorative term jewish lobby is used to hide the hideous stereotype of the scheming jewish oligarch. It is an implied slur which is perniscious. It is this gradual degrading of peoples perception of jews which was used in the early 20th century to pave the way for the horrors nazi germany.
To the beeb, the death of a jewish israeli is less important than a palestinian, and yet all should be equal. This is a symptom of power of their continuous black propaganda. ‘useful’ jews are always trotted out to somehow legitimise their bias but they dont understand that their playing JCR politics has real effects. Attacks on jews are up , attacks on synagogues are up , swastikas are appearing on walls again and aunties constant negative portrayal of jews feeds the fire.
As the member of a minority yourself you know the power of subtle jibes. You know how the normalisation of emnity gives open house to the bigots.
The lefts weird , oddcouple, partnership with extreme islam throws up continuous examples of hypocrisy. Judaism is always held up to much higher standards. Ask yourself why?
Why complain about jewish control of the banking sector and not muslim control of oil? Why complain about the treatment of palestinians in israel and not the treatment of women in islam? and most importantly as a gay man why never mention the plight of gays in islamic territories.
Scott, I would agree with you that the term “Jewish Lobby” on its own isn’t necessarily pejorative, no more so than any other kind of lobby. Well, okay, the whole industry is bad news, and calling someone a lobbyist these days is not meant as compliment. But you know what I mean.
Regarding context, though, when is the term “Jewish Lobby” ever used in a context in which it wouldn’t appear pejorative? Certainly not in the way Katty used it. “Pro-Israel Lobby” is also problematic, not because of Israeli politics but because of the dual-loyalty charge uniquely leveled at Jews everywhere. We’re always warned against associating all Mohammedans everywhere with Islamic terrorism and violence, but Jews don’t get the same consideration.
ב”ה
In actuality, there is no reason to be “anti-Israel” (it’s not like Israel is a totalitarian dictatorship that suppresses ANY if its residents or a country trying to take over the world) unless you are anti-Semitic. What could one find to criticize Israel about (trying to survive? trying to protect her residents and guests?)? What other country in the world would put up with daily military attacks on her citizens? This teeny-tiny little country (the only free and democratic country in the region) is criticized more than all the other countries put together including Iran, North Korea, Syria, Libya, Taliban run Afghanistan. The only reason for it is anti-Jewish sentiment.
Wow, 4 likes already (something you sem to rate highly). Must be a lot of anti-semites on here then.
No just a few SWP activists with nothing better to do.
Why do both the far left and the far right hate Jews. When you think about it Redgrave and her jackbooted brethren have much more in common with nick griffin and his followers than they have with Blair . Politics is a circle
“Politics is a circle”
The BNP and the SNP and Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein are all on the Left. Nationalism (as distinct from patriotism) is more inspired by the French Revolution than the Counter-Reformation.
Redgrave and her jackbooted brethren (as you put it) view nationalist socialists as rivals not opposites.
It is the difference between The People’s Front of Judea, The Judean People’s Front, The Judean Popular People’s Front, and (the most extremist of all) The Popular Front of Judea.
The Board of Deputies seem to think so. But what do they know about anything?
Probably all biased in favour of Israel staying alive and avoiding being wiped from the map.
Unreasonable of course but there you are.
Much worse was Question Time panel last night,,,Watched this although too late to play. The Tories are finished on the basis of QT…. however another properly unbalanced set though, one lefty loon economist, one Government hating Lib Dem, A labour politico and a northern journalist who was the cheer-leader for New labour!
And Damien Green. Did you forget him?
So that’s 1 against 5. Fair enough – that counts for balance in the BBC.
Jane Moore a lefty? And Williams supports the government , sort if….
Speaking of Jane Moore, she seemed to have a prepared note on hand for a specific topic raised by an audience member. The topic started out as police commissioners, and then shifted to a better use of money for policing and all that, and Moore was trying to say there was a better way to improve things.
She then brought up a figure to support her argument. She said, “I wrote it down,” then looked at her notes.
“This week alone, I think,” Moore continued, “I read a figure that something like…I’ve written it down here…” (now reading from her notes) “Last year, eighteen….thou-…eighteen hundred offenders were let off – sex offenders were let off with cautions, um…because (the camera then cut away from her while she was still looking down at her notes, so I can’t say if she kept reading or finally was speaking on her own) the police were sort of dispensing summary justice on the streets.”
Moore clearly had prepared notes for this issue. I thought only the producers and Dimbleby knew what the audience questions were in advance? I totally accept that a politician or activist is going to bring policy material they can refer to if needed, but how does that apply to a journalist?
Wide shots show all kinds of papers in front of the panelists. The blue notepads are, I believe, provided by the show, and everyone always has them so they can take notes while others are talking, etc., which is as it should be. I can’t really see exactly what she has in front of her. But how the hell did Moore just casually happen to spontaneously write down an entire sentence – which she then had trouble reading, FFS – that was specifically relevant to one question?
Perhaps she’s just much smarter than I am and expected to discuss crime and policing methods, and so came prepared.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nvtms/Question_Time_08_11_2012/
Starts @44:28 in.
After Damian Green’s pitiful performance, probably more like zero against five.
That’s not the fault of any supposed left-wing bias; but simply because so many of of the current government’s policies are so utterly shallow and misguided.
“That’s not the fault of any supposed left-wing bias; but simply because so many of of the current government’s policies are so utterly shallow and misguided.”
They say satire is dead.
I agree with dez on Green, except he was just inarticulate because he’s a dope, not because of flawed policies.
Happy to have an unbalanced QT panel it’s just the mix is always so disproportionate. It is true less than half the population voted Tory. About 2 in five did yet under labour when they had a similar share of the popular vote consistent majorities on qt were pro labour. I have yet to see a majority Tory QT panel. Only on third of the populous voted labour this time and yet they always have panels weighted to them.
I am baffled why anybody still watches QT. I really am. Zero entertainment value and as for informing the viewer- forget it. Let us all agree never to mention it again.
Agreed. Did anyone see Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse’s superb spoof of it. ?
Question Time (because it gives the serfs about five minutes of free speech) will always be disliked by the Left. That Jim Dandy dislikes it is hardly a surprise.
I haven’t watched it for 2 weeks now and I couldn’t care less. It is so bias that it suits my blood pressure to not bother
Make your mind up. I thought QT is entirely populated by left wing stooges.
Boys, you need to get your message worked out.
I haven’t watched QT in years.
I haven’t watched QT in years.
Nicked emus says:
October 9, 2012 at 9:04 am
‘This is like Nick Griffin appearing on Question TIme, the more he went on, the more and more damage he did.
Speaking of self-harm, I was wondering how you came to be aware of this?
You appear not to have watched in ‘years’ (3 being a semantic wet dream), yet are aware of the content. Surely you were not commenting on something via a 3rd hand account.
That being against the rules ‘n all. In the name of hall monitors everywhere..
Jim Dandy says:
November 2, 2012 at 11:03 am
Then you’re in no position to comment.
And if the BBC rulebook ‘years’ is like ‘split’ and that’s what you meant… best make sure you don’t get tempted again.
Ms Kay’s basic bias is in the fact that she would not talk about any other ethnic group in such terms i.e. about the Hispanic or Irish lobby’s ‘power and money,’ where, for example, changes to the immigration laws were being sought.
In those cases, the Beeb would only highlight individual stories of hardship or of good capitalists with wilting, unpicked lettuce.
Just about to watch last nights question time. I heard the radio 5 reaction with a female commentor saying that she agreed with shirley williams in all that she said. So am looking forward to some very intelligent comments from her.
DV , point of order. Your blog clock is still on summer time
It’s refreshing to see the BBC commentariat (employed and not employed) adopting new tactics. The previous ones were wearing a bit thin. The new tactic is apparently to hold a “discussion”, attempt to convey a kind of cod-disagreement and portray themselves as “independent” commenters.
Prole, I notice BTW, is at the same time apeing the “first on thread” antics notable on the Inspector Gadget blog. By doing this, I suspect he hopes to set that thread’s agenda or, at least, divert the subject of the posting and the thread into a meaningless spat between genuine commenters and the BBC sock puppets.
Such behaviour can only mean that the BBC is rather more concerned about the effects of this blog than its representatives commenting here are willing to admit.
Damn you’re good.
So Jim, will I see you at the next meeting in White City, rm 205 on Tuesday when the DG is going to brief us on the next phase?
Can you pass the message on to Cleo too? I am in No10 most of today coordinating things there.
See you at Dez’s party tonight?
I’ll be there.
Am bringing hummus to Dez’s. Are you preparing the nut roast?
I think the fact that Jim Dandy and Nicked emus are BBC supporters who are on the Left politically is entirely coincidental.
Each post they make demonstrates how politically balanced the BBC is in its programming.
I’m not on the left. Liberal and centrist me.
Nicked, you were doing so well until you brought up No10. Obviously you’re meant to be at Labour HQ. I’ll be monitoring the whole thing from the Worldwide offices on 3rd Ave., thanks to a conservative mole I know in the marketing dept.
‘The new tactic is apparently to hold a “discussion”, attempt to convey a kind of cod-disagreement and portray themselves as “independent” commenters.’
Ah, begorrah, Umbongo, what would you be after pointing out such a ting for?
You must be one of dem ‘on-commissioners’.
‘Meanwhile back in the news, the metaphors for the consequences of uniquely funded unrestricted immigration can often be discovered in the most surprising places and ways.
Denial of service will be mainatined as long as budgets allow.’
This site has made strange reading over the last few days. From all-out war to slapstick comedy.
Anyway, as an antidote to biased political coverage of US affairs may I commend to you this excellent article. Warning to those of a delicate disposition: it’s on the Guardian website. But it is by the extremely sound Daniel Hannan.
http://tinyurl.com/cnt2cwv
There is a Jewish lobby. You’ll find the term in school textbooks. The attempts to turn that into a bad word should be resisted.
“The umbrella organization of British Jewry”
Hey, Umbrella is the nefarious organization from Resident Evil. It’s classic demonization to associate Jews with….oh, wait…never mind. 🙂
For the conjuring up of a sinister Jewish lobby, targetting the BBC, look at the Harry’s Place account of the book launch of the pro-Palestinian Middle East Monitor’s ‘Battle for public opinion in Europe’ in October.
Former BBC middle eastern correspondent Tim Llewellyn is in full agreement with the al Jazeera, Independent and Guardian representatives about “a persistent manipulation of the British broadcast media by a well-moneyed pro-Jewish lobby. Llewellyn said, inter alia, that:
“I was there (at the BBC) when we weren’t interfered with. But the last 10-12 years, since the beginning of the second Intifada, has coincided with Israel’s decision to mount a tremendously well organised, careful, assiduous and extremely well financed propaganda campaign in this country, especially in Britain.
“The BBC has completely and utterly become feeble and has misreported, in my view; misrepresenting the situation in Israel-Palestine. It has done this maybe because of intense Israeli and pro-Israeli pressure from within this country, from political elements like the Friends of Israel of our three main political parties.
“Also through the higher level of pro-Israel Zionists who are scattered at strategic points throughout the British establishment, throughout British business and among the people whose voices are respected.
“The propaganda can sometimes be extremely intense, it can be bitter, it can be angry, it could be violent, it can be other forms of coercion. But it’s something the suits at the BBC find very hard to resist. So what has developed over the past 10 years at the BBC, and at other broadcasting institutions like ITN, not so much Channel 4, is a kind of self-censorship.
“It is known now by the reporters if they are reporting on an atrocity by the Israelis, in the occupied territories or elsewhere, that they have to add on to the end of their story some kind of appeasing story of how terrible the Palestinians are or how the Israelis have suffered.” ”
His disconnect with reality is quite astonishing. I noticed that the BBC became increasingly hostile in its attitude towards Israel in the early eighties and it has been like that ever since. If they have had more complaints since then it is in reaction to their reporting.
http://hurryupharry.org/2012/10/20/former-bbc-middle-east-correspondent-tim-llewellyn-%E2%80%9Czionists-are-scattered-at-strategic-points-throughout-british-business-%E2%80%9D/