The BBC raised the issue that it may be converts to Islam who are the real problem when it comes to extreme Muslims, clearly not the ‘born Muslims’, and therefore nothing inherent in the religion of Islam as such…radicalism is merely the ‘zeal’ of the new convert.
Yes, you don’t see many ‘born Muslim’ zealots do you?
Evan Davis asks which comes first for converts…
…are they deranged before they are radicalised..or do they become deranged after radicalisation?
That’s a neat trick isn’t it?…which ever way you look at it extremists or radicals are ‘deranged’….putting another layer of separation between any causation and Islamic ideology…along with the ‘zeal’ of the convert and the ‘perverting’ of Islamic teachings.
There is no connection to Islam.
This, from the Guardian was an interesting comment…about the ‘fundamentalists’…
‘Converts to Islam often talk about grappling with trying to distinguish between authentic Islamic teachings and Muslim cultural practices. Most converts are determined to follow the teachings of Muhammad, but would rather leave South Asian culture for South Asian people. The ideology of extremist groups is based on a literalist interpretation of Islamic sources which they claim is pure and uncontaminated, or in other words, free from cultural bias. This is of course highly contestable but for some converts, the promise of an Islam that resembles its earliest form can be especially appealing.’
That raises the awkward and unwanted question..what is the True Islam? That is the question that the fundamentalists, the radicals, the extremists say they are answering and the answer is a pure version of Islam, the original Islam…the real Islam…it is of course a version well funded by Saudi Arabia…the birthplace and theocratic heartland of Islam.
A rather ‘fundamental’ question. If their version is the real version what does that tell us about Islam? What does that mean for any country that has a growing Muslim population?…and the number of Muslims have doubled since 2002 in the UK.
It is the question that the BBC avoids like the plague….but it is kind of central to the debate on extremism and indeed on how Islam and Islamic communities might look inside Britain and what might be the effects of ‘mini Paskistans’ springing up inside British borders….the BBC already pandering to such a notion with its ‘Asian network’.
If you are a ‘native Brit’ of any colour, but a non-Muslim, that might be a question of great interest to you…especially if you live in one of these areas that suddenly become ‘Islamised’…whose laws do you obey? What cultural practices can you follow…can you still drink, play music, dress as you like, be gay? Will you decide to move out as 600,000 whites have done from London?
Huge, important questions that the BBC ignores. And to be fair, the government ignores.
Saturday’s Today programme (8:53) brought on a convert, Abdul Haq Baker, who told us what Islam meant to him and how it inspired him.
He said that when he embraced Islam the ‘Authority’ he acknowledged, that is God’s Authority, transcended everything he rebelled against, he was submitting himself to Allah, the law giver, the law maker.
Islam provided him with a complete structure, a complete way of life that removed any fear of authority, police, government, the intelligence services…you name it…because they were created by man and were so by limited…he was submitting himself to the infinite.
He stated that this ideological and psychological shift was very, very empowering.
It is curious that the BBC et al do not believe, or admit that such issues can be part of normal Islamic observance….the essence of Islam being the ‘Sovereignty of Allah’ over man made laws.
The trouble is that that ’empowerment’ and distance from man made laws, the submission to the total sovereignty of Allah isn’t confined to converts. That is the basis of Islam….Islam meaning Submission…to Allah.
Something that Cameron, Pickles and the BBC need to recognise.
Where do loyalties lie? To Islam first or to Britain…to a Britain that is a secular, democratic nation which is governed by a Parliament making laws responding to modern day issues rather than by some dusty, ancient desert text from 1400 years ago…as Keynes might have said: ‘Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.’?
It is the most important question as Muslims push for Sharia courts and more and more Islamic concessions whilst Muslim majority areas like Tower Hamlets become ‘Islamised’.
Going back to that Guardian article…how does the writer round it off?:
‘No matter how uncomfortable it may be, we have to recognise that our foreign policy is highly problematic. It is the west’s use of violence in Muslim countries – which often causes great harm to civilians – that ultimately provides the fuel that allows extremist groups to recruit both converts and lifelong Muslims.’
Once again the Leftist Media support, acknowledge and give credibility to the terrorists.
Rather than question and challenge the assertions by ‘extremists’ that foreign policy is a ‘war on Islam’ they allow the claim to go uncontested…not just uncontested but as here almost endorsing it in essence…‘Western violence causing great harm to civilians’. …what that message sends out is that the terrorist’s methods may be wrong but their heart is in the right place….that is an incredibly dangerous message, one that itself can only lead to more radicalisation.
This has long been a problem at the BBC…Victoria Derbyshire is especially prone to ‘nodding along’ when callers come on and rant their piece about foreign policy…the BBC itself is of course of the same frame of mind….year on year making claims about the war that can only be inflammatory and which feed into the extremist’s own narrative giving them credibility.
Once again I suggest that if the BBC sticks to reporting news it fulfills its obligations but when it starts to campaign on issues then it has taken sides and should be held responsible and accountable for the consequences that follow when its broadcasts influence events.
British Muslims feel a greater sense of national pride than the average UK citizen, according to the results of a new poll.
While 79 per cent of the Britons quizzed said they agreed with the statement ‘I am proud to be a British citizen’, the figure rose to 83 per cent among Muslims.
Nobody who ever became a born-again Christian could take issue with much of this testimony from the new convert-whether to Islam or to Jesus Christ.
They want authenticity and original faith and lifestyle much as the Christian seeks the true church and the real meaning of being a Christian-not the medias version of one.
No problem.
But The New Testament is rooted in the Hebrew Bible and is a continuation and a logical progression in many ways. Yes Paul says some contentious things, but he`s not Jesus is he?
The Christian Gospels and Epistles were written by blokes in prison under Roman guard and harrassed continually by the authorities at that time…they can hardly be triumphant in any way other that they will be vindicated-and Gods spirit is the means to get the victories here on earth. Unlike the triumphant warrior Muhammad with rows of Jews and Christians to behead.
Christainity(and Judaism) are NOT the militarist, vicious and scornful religion with imperatives to kill those you dominate by war(if the talking doesn`t cut it) , that Islam is.
Christianity has its faults alright and has had its loonies and atrocities…but it has had its enlightenment and enough scholarly trashing and rejigging…and comes out strong as ever to those who believe in God or His Son.
Islam last week showed that it is not fit to call itself a 21st Century religion, or to be listened to as Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus are….all of whom are at war with Islam wherever a border is shared.
Until Islam has its theological debate about Sura 8/9 and 5 (amongst others equally sinister)…there is no debate about “accommodating Islam”…for its practicioners believe in these-and have them learned by heart for use at the drop of a cleaver or a line/tab/spliff.
Rather than question and challenge the assertions by ‘extremists’ that foreign policy is a ‘war on Islam’ they allow the claim to go uncontested…not just uncontested but as here almost endorsing it in essence…‘Western violence causing great harm to civilians’. …what that message sends out is that the terrorist’s methods may be wrong but their heart is in the right place….that is an incredibly dangerous message, one that itself can only lead to more radicalisation.
Yes. This is the essence of the BBC’s problem. We should continue to hammer on this point rather than trying to demonstrate how evil a religion is.
So, all those Egyptian muslims killing Coptic Christians are all converts; Boko Haram killers are all converts; the killers in Pakistan and Afghanistan and every other muslim country are all converts are they? Because that’s the logic Mr Davis is following.The bbc need to stop being so selective in reporting all things muslim; perhaps even paying a little more attention to all the Christians who are being driven from their homes and countries, by muslims, just for being Christian. What about some concern, for example, for the Christians languishing in iranian prisons because they are Christian? That’s apparently unimportant to the bbc; perhaps they think these prisoners have brought this upon themselves and if only they’d convert to islam their lives would be much better. It wouldn’t ever occur to the average bbc mouthpiece to recognise that not all religions are the same and in addition, no one will enter the Kingdom of Heaven other than through Jesus Christ. Funny really, because deep down I don’t think the bbc actually regards islam as a religion and that’s why the protect it as they do.
In my and Mrs 1327s work lives we have come across three converts. On the outside they all appeared very different (19 year old British girl , American man in his early 20s and a British woman in her late 40s) yet all were remarkably similar really. All three of them wanted to be different , to be noticed for something. Had they lived 70 odd years ago they would have been enthusiastic black shirts , 60 odd years ago they would have been communists selling newspapers outside cinemas , now it is Islam that has the shock value that gets them the attention they seek. Its interesting that these people don’t quietly become converts (praying at home etc etc) but we have to have the fancy dress , the mock Arabic name and the faux outrage. Mind you not all are as dim as they seem. The late 40s woman for instance works in the public sector and her new found religion has made her just about unsackable. Previously she has tried mystery illnesses and needing a wheel chair but the conversion has really sealed the deal.
Beeboid EASTON: words and action:-
“Those far-right groups who seek to translate public disgust at the killing into general anti-Muslim feeling are reacting just as the murderers had hoped they would.”
OR:-
‘Those far-left groups who seek to translate public disgust at the killing into general pro-Muslim feeling are reacting just as the murderers had hoped they would.’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22639538
Beeboid EASTON, whose official propagandist role is what exactly?
Easton has his messages mixed up. The barbarian said they wanted all UK troops to leave Mohammedan countries, not simply to start a war with the EDL in the streets. That’s the
justificationexplanation given over and over again by Beeboids and the plethora of guests on various BBC shows: anger at foreign policy, the illegal Iraq War, etc. Easton knows that, hence his words about them wanting to bring the brutality and blood of the battlefield to people’s daily lives.Instead, Easton takes a single line out of context and runs with it to scold everyone who thinks there might be a problem about too many radical imams and jihadis being allowed to hang out in British Mohammedan communities. He even seems to deny it with his “there is little more” we can do song and dance. That’s the BBC and elite establishment message, not what the jihadis want. At least Nicky Campbell was somewhat more honest.
I imagine that the BBC have been creeping to their hospital beds and asking them just this.
No doubt the Nigerian lads told Mark this exactly.
No further questions-the BBC wish it to be so, and lo it is!
Clearly.
I believe our foreign policy is not just problematic but lunatic. Intervention of any sort in Muslim lands serves no purpose. It is not in our self interest. This does not mean that a free pass is given.Any atttack on the West should be treated as an act of war. The right to retaliate is absolute.
The mistake was to stay in Afghanistan and Iraq and probably even to depose Sadam. It served no purpose. Those who wish to export democracy and indulge in nation building are mad. If Muslim lands wish to live in a theocracy then that is their affair. But never here . That we need to make clear.
It is called seperationism. A recognition of reality and the fact that there are many ways of looking at the world.
100% true.
Wasps meet hornets in an apple barrel.
Who better than the BBC butterflies to be sent in to keep the peace between these cultured and respected members of the black and yellow insect community?
Oh…not BBC butterflies…just expendable rough white meat from Catterick then?
OK..should make good filming…and they`ll rot down in the end anyway, even if they don`t eat meat.
Use the BBC as litmus testing for the state of tension in the Middle East…from Salford to Syria.
Hang the expense on this one occasion only….any cranes?
But Beeboids, historically, appear to blame ‘British foreign policy’, not Islamic Imperialist Jihad.
So Beeboids now obfuscate what are Islamic jihad murders in London by calling them by a different name.
And Beeboids are unswerving in their campaign for Britain to be rapidly colonised still, not least from Islamic countries.
“Islam provided him with a complete structure, a complete way of life that removed any fear of authority, police, government, the intelligence services…you name it…because they were created by man and were so by limited…he was submitting himself to the infinite.”
If only these people would realise that religion (all of them) is also created by man, we would perhaps get somewhere.
For the original post how can you quote from J M Keynes to validate an opinion as if he was some paragon of virtue rather than a Fabian bisexual paedophilic atheist who’s economic theories have blighted the west and particularly G.B for decades. With his track record of course he is loved by the BBC. Thought I’d get that one in to cover myself.
By the way the whole Woolwich events smack of a carefully orchestrated psyops designed to emotionally traumatise both muslims and largely now athiestic morally corrupt white fools who think the BBC is anti Israel. We’re in the lead up to WW3 which will be between Islam and the west. All these events are merely stepping stones. Pushing huge populations of muslims into Europe was also a prerequisite naturally. The pot is simmering nicely. No prizes for guessing who is orchestrating these events.
More conspiracy theory: what happened in Woolwich is much more likely to be a random act of shocking brutality with an Islamic religious pseudo-justification, though psy-ops might come into play when the authorities tried to manage the aftermath. It’s hard to control how people react in cases like that: what if a “have-a-go” hero had intervened sooner? The BBC and others can control the reporting of it, but even that is harder today with many witnesses and built-in cameras on mobile phones, plus foreign coverage of it on the internet. You will have to spell out to me (I’m no genius but nor am I a dimmy / dhimmi / goy shmuck either) who is “orchestrating these events”.
A simple look at pictures of the event will show the blood magically appears when the tent is in play. There is none visible when you examine the scene with the alleged perps and good samaritans in play. Clearly the event is to make what few indigenous people are left in the u.k impotent. Additionally the snoopers charter will now get a free pass through parliament as if it would have prevented this event if you believe the official version. Primarily though this is a psyop aimed at convincing peeps that the war on terror is justified and that events being planned in the near future will be more acceptable in the light of this ‘heinous crime’
In Camberwell Grove last week, there was a group of 8 Carib females – all dressed in elaborate muslim robes with BIG HAIR under their scarves all aged about 18 . Converts to the mumbo jumbo death cult. Another thread for mi5 to monitor … or not .