Was just about to fold up the tent and steal away for a beer by the riverside but I couldn’t let this lie:
Syria crisis: ‘Blair to blame for Cameron downfall’
From the journalist who exposed the Iraq War deceits, a searing indictment of MPs’ failure to act against Assad’s brutal regime from Andrew Gilligan
‘Scarred by the hubris and lies of their predecessors, the British and American leaders just did not want to get involved.’
In one respect Gilligan is correct…the Syria vote was a vote in fact on the Iraq war and not Syria…however the finger of blame actually points at Gilligan himself, Humphrys and the BBC for totally changing, falsely in my opinion, Public perceptions and attitude towards the war and thence how politicians conducted that war and subsequently the one in Afghanistan…. essentially being afraid to commit men and resources, and the will power necessary to win those wars outright.
Gilligan goes on:
It is Mr Blair and Mr Campbell who are more directly responsible than anyone else for the disaster that befell Britain on Thursday night.
For the first time in 25 years, and for only the third time in human history, a government intentionally used chemical weapons as instruments of mass murder against its own citizens.
British MPs voted to turn their backs and place their fingers in their ears.
There is no doubt that Parliament spoke for the country. The Blair-style military ambition to “shape events” is precisely, of course, what so many people fear.
The Blair-style protestations about weapons of mass destruction are precisely, of course, what so many people distrust.
But, as someone who was involved in exposing the deceits over Iraq, reporting the concerns of David Kelly, the late MoD weapons scientist, the unfortunate truth is that this time the country is wrong, and Mr Blair and Mr Campbell are right.
And on that bombshell I shall leave you and race for the exit…enjoy the rest of the day’s sunshine.
This is a surprise? Iraq has been on the lips of every single Beeboid for the last couple of weeks.
Gilligan correctly pointed out that the dodgy dossier had been sexed up by the likes of Alastair Campbell, a man who did not even have the required security clearance to look at the raw data. The abuse of the intelligence services by the Blair government was a national disgrace. There was no need for it, there was every justification for removing Sadaam Hussein from power, it was Blair who made it all about WMDs, and thus, when the WMDs were not found, made the war seem to have been illegal.
Paradox is though, that American intelligence reports (that were roundly derided by BBC at the time) that Sadam shipped chemical weapons to Syria at end of war-might be true
Hands up who knew for certain there were no weapons of mass destruction – before the invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Sadam. Speak up. Whilst we have hindsight in abundance, the search for foresight continues.
Harsh to say it, but however wickedly Assad has behaved, Syria are not our brothers, its not our fight, it is a sectarian civil war. We are not the world’s policemen and it could still be found just as no WMD, Assad is innocent.
I am not sure anyone gives a fig about what Cameron thinks, about anything. From where is the clamour for war?
I think from prince bandar of saudi arabia.
Bandar is deluded if he thinks he could control the “rebels”. Both AlQ and the MB loathe the House of Saud with a vengeance and they will and are doing everything to infiltrate Saudi Arabia and topple its rulers. For the average Saudi citizen the MB is in fact a real alternative to governance.
But the elephant in the room is Iran and its nuclear program. Had the UN not lied about it, had lefties like Obama did something about the Iranian revolution, none of it would happen. Instead armies of O-cultists (al-beeb included) pretended that was a peaceful program while at the same time rejoicing about a potential nuclear strike on Israel. How’s that working today for those Regressives?
Both wars were/are wrong.
In 2002/03 I was utterly certain from all the evidence coming back from weapons inspectors and lower level spooks, that Iraq had no useable WMD by 2002. I have been vindicated in time. There was NO solid, irrefutable evidence presented at the time, that Saddam maintained WMD. ALL the evidence presented to the world was debunked at the time. From the Aluminium tubes, to the incompetence of the forged yellowcake from Niger allegations. even to the mobile bio-weapons labs which where nothing more than battlefield helium ballon inflators in curtain sided trucks.
(I was amazed at the time that anyone with an IQ over mud would have considered curtain sided trucks capable of being used for “the most deadly biological weapons of our time.” for more than a nano-second before laughing that absurd allegation off.)
Nothing that the political leaders claimed, matched what inspectors and lower level grunts were saying at the time. Now it turns out it was all based on single source intel from a person who had not set foot in Iraq for over a decade, and the rest was spun from that. They were desperate for their war, and lied their way into it, perverting the intelligence every step of the way.
They ARE doing the same again over Syria.
The latest lies from the JIC are more of the same. If we intervene against Assad, we only help and aid Al Qaeda and their use of chemical weapons (as the UN discovered in their last investigation) It has been widely reported in the alternative press that the rebels used Sarin obtained from the Saudis.
This would be the same alternative press that was 100% correct about Iraq AT THE TIME of the invasion… No hindsight required, BTW.
As regards to Syria, if we help Assad, we help a brutal dictator. If we attack Assad, we help Al Qaeda.
The ONLY rational and sensible option is to stay out of it and give aid to the innocent refugees.
Cameron – jumping up and down & foaming at the mouth ” We demand you let the UN inspectors in to ascertain the nature of the attack”
Assad – after a pause – ” OK let them come & look”
Un inspectors go to Syria & take samples. Before there’s a chance to even get the samples back to be analysed.
Cameron ” We know chemical weapons were used and that the Assad regime were responsible”
And then he wonders why we have no confidence in his leadership! How can someone expect to retain a shred of credibility when they call for scientific analysis, but aren’t prepared to wait for the results before stating he already knows the result?
If and it’s still a big if Assad has used chemical weapons then he needs to be called to account and further use prevented, but there is no proof. It would be remarkably difficult for Russia and China to refuse to back action in that case, but as we now hear ‘there is compelling evidence that Assad used chemical weapons’ . Well I’ve heard about compelling evidence before and it turned out to be a lie so this time if you want my support then you’re going to have to do a whole lot better than that. David Iyke has compelling evidence that Obama is a giant green lizard – must be true then !
If there is evidence that the Peace loving secular freedom fighters were likely responsible – as alleged by a UN official what then? Move on nothing to see or should we offer Assad the chance to nominate 100 or so targets?
As I recall, the British people were told that British bases could be targetted by rockets carrying WMD within 45 minutes.
So it wasn’t just that Saddam had WMDs – we knew he had already used chemical weapons on the Kurds – it was that we were told by the UK government that attack was necessary to protect Britain.
Subsequently we saw a fraction of how corrupted our information providers were, and how they had abused our trust in order to take us to war for their own reasons – maybe regime change, maybe oil, money, who knows?
It was murderously-cold manipulation of the British (most of whom have to be seriously provoked to rouse their violent side) which has had some long-lasting devastating consequences – though not yet for the very, very rich Tony Blair.
The BBC played a very significant role in this shameful affair and that is not going to be forgotten in a hurry.
Let’s not forget Dr David Kelly, who died because of the Iraq war. We may never see compelling evidence that he was killed for dissenting about what he saw in Iraq, but I for one will always blame Blair, Hoon and Campbell for his death. If there hadn’t been the insatiable lust for a war, Dr Kelly would be alive today and perhaps our government would have been held in higher esteem than it is currently. If anyone thinks that the entity called Campbell was a one off, I’d suggest they see what has been happening in our media in the past few years.
I would put some of the blame on Susan Watts of the BBC who leaked Kelly’s name. And that dreadful Labour MP who gave Kelly such a hard time at the Select Committee hearing.
Plus Gilligan for misquoting what Kelly had actually said.
….plus Richard Sambrooke and Greg Dyke for failing totally to investigate the complaints from No 10, which were in part justified. (Or indeed mostly justified). Sambrooke backed later by Dyke decided to just fight it out – without investigating the complaint. In other words – the BBC acting as per usual on any complaint.
That obstinacy is what caused the whole affair to get bigger and bigger – eventually putting the focus on Kelly. and intense pressure he could not handle.
I’d put Sambrook as carrying the most responsibility in the affair. Another highly-paid BBC manager failing to manage.
What gets completely forgotten is exactly how Kelly was outed. A trail of breadcrumbs were scattered around by the people in the media who had been having dealings with him which, in effect, led right to him for those who looked closely enough to follow.
The instructions given to the Government Press Office was not to proffer any information about Kelly but if enquiries were made about specific people then not to lie. Obviously those who had followed the breadcrumbs and asked specifically about Kelly were not lied to and his identity was confirmed to them.
The very people who scream about that being done would, without doubt, have screamed even louder if his involvement had been denied and his involvement eventually became known. The cries of Cover-ups, Conspiracies and Government dishonesty would have been even more strident than they have been.
The simple truth is that Kelly discussed matters and passed information to certain people in the media which he was not authorised to do. The real tragedy was that those in the Civil Service who had responsibility towards him failed miserably to make sure he was made aware that the media were aware of his involvement and failed to provide the support he obviously was in need of and was, in fact, due to him.
He was not offered as prey for the wolves but once they were known to be circling nothing was done to try and protect or support him and that is the part which is the real disgrace.
It wasn’t subsequently. There is no hindsight required.
I am amazed at some of the things that were reported in the alternative news prior to the invasion, that the BBC at the time ignored, or covered up, but only covered as “hindsight” up to a decade later. Why did the BBC take 10 years to report things that were known at the time?
It was known in 2002 that all of the chemical and biological weapons that Saddam DID have pre-1991 would have been rendered inert by the laws of physics, as they were all beyond their useful shelf life. It was known that these also were not stored in ideal conditions, which would hasten their deterioration, yet NONE of the well funded journalists at the BBC even thought to ask, “Considering that the inspectors and CIA spooks have failed to find ANY evidence whatsoever of new recent production of WMD, and ALL of the now known argument for invasion is based on the previous (unaccounted for) stocks of WMD…. What is the shelf life of BLA? or Sarin? or any of the other chemical or biological agents?”
The Establishment mainstream media were not just remiss in refusing to ask the critical questions about WMD, but were actually complicit in covering up the truth, which was known at the time and widely reported on amateur blogs.
The September 2002 dossier which led to the “45 minutes from doom” headline was full of lies and removed caveats to wilfully lead to a misleading impression of the state of alert and capability of Iraq. The BBC never asked Campbell, “Why did you have the words “Iraq is not a threat to us, or indeed her neighbours” removed from the draft versions of the dossier, at your “presentation meeting” of the JIC which you chaired?
The February 2003 Dossier was debunked thoroughly online less than 36 hours after publication as a plagiarised thesis refering to Saddams Capability pre-1990, which was downloaded by a junior Downing Street staffer and then “sexed up” and amended to make it falsely appear to be about Saddam’s current capabilities. Blair then falsely and knowingly presented that dossier to the Commons as “the latest intelligence”. He wilfully lied to the Commons and the nation about the necessity of going to war.
Again, this information in the February dossier was KNOWN to be false AT THE TIME! The establishment mainstream media refused to challenge Blair on ANY of the actual, game changing lies.
All of the establishment lies were debunked online at the time, no hindsight required. Those doing the actual research, investigations and exposing the lies, were attacked as tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy nutters by the mainstream media, and by those who tragically, relied on the mainstream media, Yet time has proven them to be correct and the multi billion pound mainstream media, with armies of professional journalists, were WRONG!
The same is happening again.
We must NOT intervene on AL Qaeda’s side in Syrias civil war.
We should only offer aid to the refugees.
We were in addition told of compelling evidence of the WMDs just as we are being now. We were told of the legality of the UK position just as we are now, and both of these turned out to be lies.
But worse than all of these is the knowledge that the Iraq inquiry which might prove Blair lies , is being deliberately stymied by the refusal of Cameron to release the vital papers which contain the evidence of the war. This is a man which cannot be trusted, who knows that there is no accountability for politicians and intends to keep it that way.
The UK should not have a conventional armed forces any more in my view. There is no way the country could fight another war, we could not feed the populace and they simply would not put up with the privations our forebears did.
The only purpose of armed forces is for politicians to go adventuring overseas, nothing else and the absence of the opportunity would prevent this.
Who seriously would want to fight to preserve this country in the state it is? Almost any other government could make a better job of it than the sorry lot we get to chose from.
I think many people would probably be fighting for the invaders anyway if it ever happened.
Which type of invaders were you thinking of? Several million are already here , talk about a 5th column, we have already got more columns than you can count, sitting right in our midst waiting for the call.
Exactly! It doesn’t matter who the invader is we’re bound to have more than adequate representation from the wooden horse of multiculturalism.
Another great piece by Gilligan. He also did a superb series of articles exposing Hacked Off and their shady network of leftist pressure groups.
You can’t have it both ways !
This morning a US hack commenting on Obamas ‘dithering’.
This delay means Assad has chance to move his military assets out of harms way. He also has a chance – a window in which to use them against his citizens.
Well excuse me, but if he’s moved them out of harms way then he can hardly be using them. One or the other, but not both at the same time!
The BBC seem to have come down pretty firmly on the side of action. One wonders if there is some kind of corporate message being issued, but if that is the case then who is giving it? The BBC upper echelons or the Grauniad?
The haughty St Andrew of Gilligan is clearly untroubled that he is responsible for Dr Kelly’s death.
Along, perhaps, with unofficial intelligence chief Campbell, who made sure there was no inquest….
http://britain-today.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/alistaire-campbell-lies-about-dr-david.html