David Cameron ‘feeds fears of Christian persecution’, former Archbishop of Canterbury says
Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, has attacked David Cameron for doing more than any other recent political leader to feed Christian anxieties that they are part of a persecuted minority.
Guess nothing has changed.
Hugely disappointed in Farage for having succumbed to media pressure to dump his Christian councillor…..having had his ban on the man speaking to the media flouted.
Farage is happy to be sticking two fingers up at the politically correct when he thinks it makes him look good…such as when drinking beer or smoking but when it really counts he has made his excuses and ducked out.
Why would Farage ban the man from speaking to the media and expressing what are his beliefs based upon Christian teachings (and Muslim)?
Does this mean no Christian can now serve in government or in the Public Sector?
Has Cameron introduced, ironically, a ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell‘ policy for Christians?
You can serve but keep quiet about your beliefs.
The BBC interviewed Tory Michael Fallon this morning asking him about the state of UKIP….why ask him, is he likely to give a sensible answer?
There is clearly a much deeper issue here than party political abuse.
Rather than the state of UKIP shouldn’t the real question be about attitudes of the two faced politicians like Fallon and Cameron along with the media that ‘persecute’ Christians…whilst of course not daring to say anything about Islam.
Is not a question about the status of Christianity in Britain far more a relevant question…especially perhaps on a Sunday?
Are the Tories saying all Christians are ‘fruitcakes’?
A senior Conservative minister who is tipped to the party’s next chairman warned there are still “fruitcakes” in the UK Independence Party.
Speaking about the state of Ukip on the BBC’s Sunday Politics Show (1 hour 9 mins), Michael Fallon, a business minister, said the comments showed that “there clearly are one or two fruitcakes still around there”.
This lot will have to go then…..
The Lords Spiritual
26 bishops of the Church of England sit in the House of Lords. Known as the Lords Spiritual, they read prayers at the start of each daily meeting and play a full and active role in the life and work of the Upper House.
Who Reads Prayers?
A senior bishop (Lord Spiritual) who sits in the Lords reads the prayers at the beginning of each sitting.
What might a prayer say?
Our Father, which art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done, in earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.
Hmmm…‘Thy will be done, in earth as it is in Heaven’….presumably the Will as expressed in the Bible.
Presumably those Bishops all believe in Christianity and all its teachings….are they also ‘fruitcakes’?
David Cameron: “We are a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so”
David Cameron on Jesus, pancakes and Sunday mornings
David Cameron has described his faith as “not a bad handbook” for life but admitted he is unwilling to follow the example of Jesus to give all his possessions to the poor.
“I’m a Christian and I’m an active member of the Church of England, and like all Christians I think I sometimes struggle with some of the sayings and some of the instructions.
Perhaps, as said, the BBC should be challenging Cameron and Co on the hypocritical smear that Christians, UKIP Christians that is, are ‘fruitcakes’….the BBC is more than happy to ring fence Islam and actively defend it……why no such ‘protection’ for Christians?
The BBC is having all too much fun poking a stick at UKIP…as usual.
The question is, do these bishops A/ agree with the UKIP councillor or B/ the Bible as interpreted by him?
My experience of contemporary C of E clergy would suggest that few of them will. Or, if they do, dare to admit it.
Yep….that is of course how we managed to rub along with religion for so long…or have done…we’ll take the spirituality, we’ll take the rituals and the ceremony but stick the actual rather more awkward beliefs and demands of Christianity out of sight.
Islam has shaken all that up as Muslims are less shy about asserting their beliefs…..the politicians bow down before them…and the Christians see that and start to think they should be making their demands known too.
Cameron and his fellow politicians only have themselves to blame for letting things go so far…cultural cringe in haste…repent at leisure.
I fear UKIP are sadly sliding down the same politically correct pole as all the other parties. The BBC no doubt scent blood and will keep the pressure on even more.
What a tragedy, they were actually offering a ray of light in the darkness and probably were in tune with the silent majority in the UK.
The reason Farage dumped the Henley councillor is because what the guy said was utterly, irredeemably nuts and not far off the sort of thing the Westboro Baptist Church believe. No more, no less.
To defend his idiocy is ludicrous.
Farage didn’t need to defend him, but nor did he need to kick him out. Britain used to be a tolerant place where you could believe in fairies or Santa and it didn’t make you unfit to serve. People could hold weird views as long as they acted properly. You could disagree and criticise their views, but you didn’t persecute them. Much like how Glenn Hoddle got sacked and pilloried for having the same views as most Buddhists, not for anything he did but just for what he said. Tolerance is meaningless if it’s only for people you agree with.
I agree that there’s too much of a pro-Christian tone to these pieces. I’d much rather the country be completely secular than choose what I consider to be one form of outdated bullshit over another. However, the point still stands that Christians who spout nonsense like this get shafted while MUSLIMS who spout equally ridiculous, often downright violent bile would be untouchable because the BBC and other institutions are too terrified of the consequences to lift a finger. It’s the hypocrisy that needs to be addressed, not necessarily a defense of Christianity itself. The BBC is all too happy to mock Christianity but doesn’t apply the same scrutiny to Islam, instead doing all it can to convince people that it’s a positive part of our culture when the evidence says the exact opposite.
Jesus responded to a question, ” Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s”.
The secularists or atheists, render everything to Caeser (state), and what results us a the totalitarian state. Islam requires rendering everything to allah, which in practice means everything to the mullahs. Either way, sooner or later, leads to oppression on a grand scale.
A totally secular state will eventually lead to either communist totalitarianism (disguised initially as socialism), or an Islamic sharia state.
We in Britain, due to our winding and twisting history, ( curiously reflected in our twisting and winding country roads), have ended up with a constitutional monarchy, with the monarch required to uphold Christian values.
We have been singularly fortunate, allowing us to have the very best of all worlds. The result has been an flowering of science, technology, engineering, law, constitutional democracy, literature, that has no parallel in any nation in all history.
” Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s” was in answer to question about whether Jews should pay their taxes to the Romans.
Beside, who gives a toss what Jesus said?!
And how does secularism result in totalitarianism? Christianity and Islam are the ultimate totalitarianism you serf!
Because our civilisation is based on Christianity. Without it there would not even be the secularism, as secularism arises from Christianity.
Secularism without its roots in the faith that gave rise to it, becomes just as destructive as any virtue. In fact virtues become even more destructive then vices.
No one is defending his ‘idiocy’. They are pointing out the hypocritical double standard whereby only Christian fundamentalists are mocked and pilloried, while those of other faiths (Islam in particular) are given a free pass.
Those Islamists as fundamental as the Henley fool aren’t in the fourth largest party in the UK with local elections bearing down though, are they?
Actually they control a massive budget and a large part of London…called Tower Hamlets….amongst many other outposts.
Labour: London borough becomes ‘Islamic republic’
Borough of Tower Hamlets: a byword for sleaze
They also enjoy funding from fundamentalist Saudi Arabia.
Borough of Tower Hamlets: a byword for sleaze
a directly elected mayor with close links to Islamic extremism appears to be abusing public money and council assets to reward his supporters and, in the words of the local MP, Jim Fitzpatrick, to “buy his re-election this May”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10581958/Borough-of-Tower-Hamlets-a-byword-for-sleaze.html
But they have enormous influence on both the Labour and Conservative parties though, haven’t they? Including, may I remind you, members of both Houses of Parliament.
The issue here is one of hypocrisy and the sick games being played by our media.
So it’s the number of people involved that matters, rather than the nature and content of what’s happening and being said?
Such intellectual laziness doesn’t help your cause.
Even if you’re not religious a people and a nation still need some kind of moral anchor to hold on to to stop the slide into barbarity.
Look at the examples of where Christianity is/was banned and ask yourself is this the kind of society you want.
Nazi Germany, Stalins Russia, Pol Pots Cambodia, North Korea, Iran, Yemen etc.
You have to ask yourself why the BBC are so desperate for such a society. It is because they believe, erroneously, that they can succeed where all others have failed in creating a secular Utopia in which everyone is free to do whatever the hell they want.
For too long Christianity has gone around telling everyone they can’t have and do whomever and whatever they want and so it needs to be removed. Islam is given free reign not just because it is feared but because it is useful in undermining those institutions which are a common enemy with the BBC, for example the nation state and the Christian Church.
Plus being Utopianists the right-on, bleeding-heart beeboids think everyone, deep down, really wants peace and unity man just like them.
Yes I agree the BBC are desperate for ‘friends’ with influence. The BBC links to arab funding are quite clear here on their move to Salford Quay is 25% as investment in property along with 75% of dodgy dealings with the Labour party via ‘Peels’.
http://andrewlainton.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/
Christianity was never banned in NAZI Germany !
No but nor was encouraged .Hitlers on views on Christianity are well known.
http://www.doxa.ws/social/Hitler.html
Stalin was more openly anti -religious ,persecuting Christians and Muslims and Jews (though perhaps the latter with less rigour) But for the purposes of prosecuting the war called a truce on the orthodox church
While Stalin (unlike Lenin) was violently opposed to Islam, Hitler it seems,was very sympathetic to the religion of peace
http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2013/09/22/evidence-mounting-that-hitler-was-a-muslim-and-practiced-islam/
Er, no. Actually he’s been suspended for because…
The South East Chairman Roger Bird has stated:
“We cannot have any individual using the UKIP banner to promote their controversial personal beliefs which are not shared by the Party. Everyone is entitled to their own religious ideology which is central to a free and fair society. Councillor Silvester’s views are his own and in no way reflect the Party’s position. Indeed Councillor Silvester himself has clearly stated this. However, Councillor Silvester has today acted contrary to Party requests and continued to court the media in order to promote his own personal beliefs. This has caused significant offence to many people and goes against the core principles of UKIP. It is not fair on the many thousands of hard working members of UKIP to have one person take attention away from their efforts and successes by promoting their own controversial views despite being requested not to do so.”
I’m sure he still held these same views when he was a Tory. Strange that UKIP has been attacked three times now for views held by former Tories. UKIP were recently attacked over comments made by Victoria Ayling in a video she made when she was still a Tory. Are their views only controvertial when they join UKIP. The three main parties have many characters with controversial views. UKIP can take conmfort from the fact that the increase in attacks on them show how worried by them and their success the three main parties and their media sympathisers are.
Peter
Apologies for the superfluous ‘for’ in my opening sentence.
Peter
Yes, the dishonesty of the MSM is obvious because all these people did what they did when they were Tories, leave to join UKIP and it seems anything bad they ever did or said will be leaked to the MSM, who will repeat it without mentioning their role at the time it was done.
I’m absolutely astonished by the tone of one or two of the recent blog entries touching on this Henley business, let alone some of the replies.
Geoffrey Bloom seemed to me to be an amiable pillock, who must have been otherwise engaged while the media and the planet was changing in the last three decades, but the Henley councillor debacle is really quite chilling.
The idea he might have a say over even the direction a one-way traffic system might go is horrifying. For some here to then seemingly justify his lunacy by pointing out some muslims are just as nuts or worse and the media are unfair is as irrelevant as it is obvious. It is lazy whataboutery.
If a man of his age is so out of touch he does not know sections of the media will leap on his bullshit from a height, then he shouldn’t be in any position of influence at all.
I don’t care if he believes the Lamb of God makes its own mint sauce, but when he starts to tell the rest if the world, he damages his party and merely boldly underlines the media meme that all Ukip members are lunatics.
Godfery Bloom…
Godfrey. Bear with me. We’ll get there!
I’m sure most people would agree with you Milverton, but I doubt your comment will be appreciated here.
Milverton, it was something he said in private to “Brave Dave”. Maybe it was just a muttered comment or something, who knows. What upsets me are two facts :
1. If Andy Choudary said that the floods came because we allow gay marriage then it would be swept under the carpet, no-one would dare to question / threaten / laugh at him and it certainly wouldn’t be the news headline.
2. This Tory councillor made this comment to Dave months ago, he joins UKIP and suddenly the comment is leaked to the press, as “UKIP councillor says…” – it stinks of media manipulation, except the media are clearly complicit, repeat the story without any honest questioning so now it is public manipulation, and that really irks me!
But, Milve… he was voted in as a councillor in a free and fair democratic process. Henley isn’t Tower Hamlets. The voters may in the next council election vote him out if they don’t like what he’s been saying and he’s no longer a Tory. That’s democracy. However, in his favour, I understand he puts his Christian beliefs of ‘love thy neighbour’ into practice and is involved in a variety of ‘good works’.
No, Milverton, I really don’t think you will ‘get there’ – if ‘there’ is a reasonable understanding of what others are saying.
Yes, this councillor’s comments will have outraged homosexuals and their champions. As such, it has been ‘unhelpful’ to UKIP in so far as it will have alienated liberal opinion. Personally, I think he is wrong but being an adult, I support his right to hold whatever opinions he likes.
The issue is not, as you keep pretending, what he believes, but the fact that his opinions are absolutely and inevitably held by devout Muslims and others, some of whom hold far more elevated office in this country, and that he has been made an exception of, deliberately and calculatedly to embarrass the political party of which he was a member.
His comments should outrage all thinking people. Homosexual or not.
He has embarrassed himself without anyone else’s help. And as explained above, he hasnt simply been suspended for holding such views.
This is Biased BBC though, so Muslims have to make it in there one way or another.
The problem for UKIP is that the people that are being pillared in the press are the same people Cameron warned of. “Racists and fruitcakes – mostly”, I think he said.
With this latest guy filling the ‘fruitcake’ check-box, and the likes of Bloom and others covering the racist jibe, you can see that this was no throw-away comment by Cameron. He has set the agenda by which UKIP will be judged and destroyed.
With the Liberal-Left leaning of the BBC and Establishment masters pushing the meme, you can see that a concerted effort to push a political party rival out of the nest is running at full-steam. This was always on the horizon, so UKIP should have been prepared.
Also, I do not see that the views of this man are anymore or less ridiculous than say believing that a trace gas, that makes up less than 0.03% of the air we breath, can be held anymore responsible for the weather and climate we are having. But the irony of this seems to be lost on an organization that believes it sets the standard for journalism.
You’ve been building up to it Alan and you finally get there – the UKIP man was right!
Such ideas should be held up to ridicule and mockery because….they are so ridiculous and mockable. You may have had an excuse 500years ago maybe, but we know a bit more now as a species than we did then.
In my experience Christians have a deep yearning to be persecuted.
The difference between ‘gay, lesbian, or bisexual persons’ and Christians, is that gay people are born that way, its in their nature. Christianity is a belief, a choice to hold a view. Views, and religious one’s are no different, are there to be held up to scrutiny. If these views, Christian views (and Muslim) – although I don’t even many Christians share this kind of view, appear silly under scrutiny then that’s because of their ludicrous nature.
In fact, I’d say the mockery, and ridicule of religion is absolutely essential.
Bring on your flood Lord!
‘In fact, I’d say the mockery, and ridicule of religion is absolutely essential’
Including yours?
Keep bashing the bishop fella ,youll get the liberal inquisitions medal of valour one day I’m sure.
I don’t have one buddy, but sure go for it.
One of the beginnings of human emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority. That includes your god.
Yeah you have.Like all true believers, your words reek of its cant.
Laugh at authority?Don’t kid yourself, your the lapdog of it, regurgitating its orthodoxy and then casting around for praise
And for the record I’m an Atheist ,a real one not a secular fundamentalist like you.
But carry on with the soft targets ,you rebel you, events are making you and your pseudo-religion irrelevant
A so-called aethiest without any balls.
What like you ? Yeah that’s really brave calling yourself ‘Jesus’ flip flop’ .
Perhaps next time you see the vicar you can stick your tongue out and go ‘nah,nah,nah,’ .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHqRtLeI_pE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DmHqRtLeI_pE&app=desktop….judas david cameron
The rising tide of Islam is more likely to send a few of the posters above to a much darker place than a UKIP councillor.
His views also included the comment that it is up to Farage whether to dump him or not.
THAT ought to worry us. If he`s touched a nerve re flip flops over gay marriages within UKIP, then this doesn`t seem to be an excuse to sacrifice one of your party-just to please the anti-Christian media.
I for one won`y bother my arse with UKIP…Farage can`t swip his pint and be independent, when he panics at the first mention of God…possibly…having some say in our world still.
As I say-you can sneer at my God…you`ll not be getting away with it when he becomes some false god called Allah.
These are your golden days maybe?
Maybe you didn’t notcie but Alah and your god are one and the same.
“Plenty of Muslim militants. Where’s the Church militant?
“All hell would break loose if anyone was doing to Muslims throughout the world what Muslim extremists are doing to Christians. But our governments and the Church are largely turning a blind eye.”
[Excerpt]:-
“Imagine the brouhaha if non-Muslim countries persecuted Muslims by torching mosques, destroying holy books and relics, kidnapping and murder. All hell would break loose. Embassies would be blown up, diplomats assassinated, and general mayhem.
“There would be mass rallies in London, Bradford and other places with large Muslim concentrations. There would be outrage amongst politicians and the religiosi. There would be angry UN denunciations and Security Council resolutions.
“All this is happening in Islamic countries; persecution of Christians is rife. It is estimated that 100,000 Christians have been killed, mostly in Islamic countries, each year for the past 10 years.”
By Robin Mitchinson.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/4618/plenty_of_muslim_militants_where_s_the_church_militant
And what has been the reaction in the Christian world?
Hardly any; an indifferent shrug of the shoulders.
So Xtians want credit for not killing and rioting? Well, bully for them.
I may remind those secular ‘Philosophers’ that atheism is recognised (according to the BBC who used that term to defend itself) was ‘like a religon’ and of ‘equal importance’ (it said). And who could argue with the BBC? (it won that ’employment’ court-case by the way). On another point the word ‘Scientist’ (as often abused by Dawkins – an ardent athesist), is to ‘foretell the future’ as our own Michael Faraday said that he ‘hated’ the popular term ‘Scientist’ himself (he preferred to be described as the more humble ‘Natural Philosopher’. This equates to the many ‘Natural Philosophers’ who were (and still are) from a religious backgound of observing the laws of nature itself. I wish Dawkins and co were a bit more humble about the things they don’t know. There is still a great deal we ‘don’t know’ whilst our own Anglo Saxon culture (as Catholic) is being ‘thrown away’ to suit private secular agendas of the EU super state (super being Latin for ‘above’) our own.
Please do point us to where the BBC said this? I have a strong suspicion you’re wrong.
(I base this on the sum of my knowledge of the subject, and by conducting some investigation of the evidence. I’m not willing to take it on faith, or because you told me, or because I’m not ale to think for myself).
‘because I’m not ale to think for myself’
Cause & effect. Happens to the best of us, though it’s a bit early for most.
Whether you get an answer will be interesting.
It would also be good to hear of any times you have made the same request of the BBC on the basis of ‘strong suspicion’, and what the outcome was.
Jesus’s flip flop (I lost the web link that I should have included above). Your right in that it was not a BBC ‘claim’ in it’s defence. I should have read a bit further on; it was the employment tribuneral (May 2011) who ruled that the ‘…BBC’s ethos is equivalent to a faith…’ The BBC can therefore now be charged with ‘religious’ discrimination by it’s former employee. So that makes the BBC a religious entity with (legalised) ‘ethics’. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384968/Believing-BBCs-ethos-equivalent-faith-job-tribunal-rules.html
Then that was the rather odd decision of the tribunal and the articles quotes the BBC as:
‘At the tribunal, the BBC said the idea that belief in public sector broadcasting was the same as a religion was ‘absurd’.
His case seems to have been without any merit:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/edgbaston-journalist-facing-10000-bill-190954
Well, as a Christian I’m not impressed by our councillor’s grasp of theology. After Noah’s flood, God said he would never again punish the world through flooding. So I think that that comment is a very silly one, that brings both his party and Christianity into disrepute b attributing the flooding to something that clearly has nothing to do with it. So he is dosciplined by his party and ridiculed by the media.
On the other hand when David Cameraon makes a similartly stupid and unsupported comment about the flooding being subject to “climate change”, something that was strongly denied even by the high priests of the warming religion in the Met Office, he was not riidiculed or disciplijned by his party.
Politicians are prone to making stupid statements about things they have no proper understanding of. It is in their nature. They are trying to sound clever and make a name for themselves, but it rarely works unelss you have the support of the BBC of course!
‘After Noah’s flood, God said he would never again punish the world through flooding.’
That was very compassionate of him, but how do you know this?
Nonsense. The man was a massive liability and I’m glad he’s gone. He was not kicked for being a Christian, he was kicked for repeatedly going against the party’s guidelines.
Why was this not news when he was a Tory? Because the establishment want desperately to smear and ridicule UKIP. This man was giving them ammunition.
I know he was quoting the bible and it has been spun to rather suggest he is insane, however how the hell did he think that “gays=floods” is a sensible thing to say to the media? He was foolish and naive at best, a tory plant at worst.
UKIP handled it well.