A contribution by Graeme Thompson who posts as ‘hippiepooter’.
“Picking up from Alan’s post here on the BBC’s (ahem) ‘under-reporting’ of recent facts emerging about the Commons appearance of the families of ‘jihadi brides’, Britain’s patron saint of counter-jihad Douglas Murray prompts further thought here.
So let’s give this another spin with all that has now emerged. The father of one of the girls who went off to do Jihad and the lawyer that represented all the families who blamed the police in the Commons are rabid Jihadists.
This sensational (though entirely unsurprising) story has had banner headlines in The Times, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express and the Evening Standard, but if you relied on the BBC for your news you would be unaware of it.
Why is this? Could it be that the correctnick left are anti-Western allies of Jihad and control the BBC? Why else would they aid and abet the propaganda of our country’s enemies then put a news blackout on their exposure?
We use the word ‘Islamist’ to differentiate between Muslims who want to kill us and Muslims who don’t. The last thing any civilised nation wants is a pogrom against an immigrant community when atrocities are committed in the name of its religion. However, Jihad is an integral part of Islam, and a Muslim who renounces Jihad renounces Islam.
One way we can defeat Jihad and stop demographic islamisation of our nation is to de-islamisize our Muslim population. The best way we can do this is with the Koran. How could such a lying, thieving, warmongering, child molesting, Jew hating monster like Mohammed possibly be the ‘last prophet of God’?
This Satanic religion is killing our country and the BBC is helping it.”
British people could win the arguments, de Islamise the nutters who swallow the garbage about a prophet whose followers want to kill us. We could do it in the work-places, via the social media, anywhere. In fact there was a time when we could have integrated with many immigrants who held these views, and we could have shown them from our own history how we eventually replaced the rule of psychotic priests and politicians with democracy and the rule of law. Not perfect but sensible.
We were prevented by politicians who listened to the gospel of diversity and multikulturalism, allowed the BBC to determine the scope of political argument, and backed this up with a combination of PC police and street thugs who championed the most retarded voices of Islamism. If only a handful of Conservative MPs had taken advantage of Parliamentary privilege to defend our longstanding democratic traditions, we could have spoken out. But there are none, and now we are entering a World War which may be worse that the previous one, but this time the appeasing voice of Chamberlain has not been replaced, and we face arrest if we square up to the NAZIs.
There are no arguments when it comes to religion which is why this site is such hard work.
Ideas such as the ones you mention ultimately burn themselves out if the material support disappears. You should read a book called captain swing a fascinating read on how revolt can arise spontaneously.
Manon, with respect, religion has always been about arguments. In rational inquiry from Aristotle to Aquinas, through the Enlightenment, religion has played a formative role in logic and argument. Think of religious scientists such as Descartes, Faraday, Newton, Boyle, Mendel, Kelvin, Planck and many more. But our national broadcaster prefers a crude contrast between science and irrational faith.
I am not a person of faith, as they say, but as a scholar with a background in science I have been immersed in religious arguments.
There was a time when it was possible to argue with Islamic scholars, which I recall way back in the 1980s over religious/scientific arguments over the end points of human life. Unfortunately, the irrationalists took over, posing as progressive thinkers and allying themselves with the crazies within Islam whilst denouncing centuries of serious argument generate by the major religions. Thanks to the BBC’s presentation of religion as either irrational faith or warm hearted do goodism, religion has been reduced to expressions of feelings which must not, in some religions, be offended.
I will read Captain Swing, and add it to my studies of spontaneous movement.
To Manon. At the risk of treating this site as a vehicle for the study of working class history, I recalled Hobsbawm and Rude’s Captain Swing, but would contrast it with the respect given to the role of religion in working-class life in the Making of the English Working Class by my former colleague – EP Thompson. I will treat you to a further recollection of mine of a moment of which Thompson informed me, when he discovered Marxist Hobsbawm sitting on a wall in tears in response to the news that his beloved Russian tanks had roughed up the Hungarian rising in 1956.
Apologies for wandering off BBC bias – but then a module in Marxist history seems to be a requirement for employment with the BBC.t
LOL. Do you have evidence that a Marxist module is required to join the BBC or are you just making that up? As to the term Marxist I find this very misunderstood since most so called Marxists are in fact Hegelians. Hobsbawm being a case in point.
Mano, you should go and correct wikipedia then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hobsbawm Good luck.
In passing, I appreciate your many thoughtful comments, the insults not so much. Thanks for your contributions though which sometimes make for interesting debate 🙂
You are a guy I would enjoy talking to in the future.
Everyone was religious back in those days. I notice you didn’t mention Charles Darwin. He was religious too.
Mrs Darwin was a Christian but Charles Darwin lost his faith.
Let’s be clear about this, if we took the necessary measures to defeat Jihad and stop demographic Islamisation, the entire OIC (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation) bloc at the UN would turn against us and we would end up at war.
1) A British Guantanamo
2) Military spending on a war footing
3) Restore the death penalty for Treason
4) End Muslim immigration
Would immediately lead to the Muslim bloc declaring sanctions and in Saudi Arabia and other ex-pat hang-outs British Nationals would suddenly find themselves getting arrested on all sorts of trumped up charges and severely mistreated.
Britain would stand alone because our allies would prove to be as big a finks as they are now and us with them. But then Britain has stood alone before and inspired the world to overcome evil.
I see the alternative of a slow burn to Islamisation as being worse. It’s better that we bring things to a head now while we’re still (more or less) able to go to war from a position of strength than face war from a position of weakness 2-3 decades from now (or a lot sooner!) and lose or surrender.
Afghanistan and Iraq was the right response to 9-11 but we failed to see it through. We showed the enemy that after 30 years of cultural Marxism the moral fibre of the West has been decimated and we’re there for the taking.
I fear that if we can’t beat Jihad with what’s left of the best of Britain we might resort to the worst. Personally a BNP Britain or an ISIS Britain would amount to the same thing.
Right now what this election is about is what moral pygmy will cede even more ground to Jihad over the next 5 years than we already have done.
The only hope I could see is if great men and women like Douglas Murray and Melanie Phillips stand for election. Their voice in Parliament is the only thing that could rally the country and remind us who we are and what we stand for.
We could stop voting them into positions of influence for a start.
Some of them are appointed by HMG as Ministers. Or invited by idiots like Home Secretaries to be advisors.
There is no need for a Trojan Horse. Cameron and his Ministers opened the gates for them with a big welcome.
Ignorance is bliss, in the kingdom of the blind.
Douglas Murray’s column is headed “Is Britain losing the war against radical Islam?”.
Losing it? We are not even fighting it.
Come on, Theresa May has been known to use firm language on at least a couple of occasions.
the Koran is untouchable. Altering the text is blasphemy in Islam, the result of which is death.
sadly, all we in the west are doing is appeasing Islam. hoping the problem will go away. Its not going to go away. The West isnt going to stand up to islam because it fears the reaction of peaceful muslims who will kill us and subversive groups like the SWP, UAF, BBC etc who will protest and say nasty things about the government.
The result of which is when the war between Islam and the West finally kicks off is that its going to be very bloody and make WWII look like an afternoons picnic on a pleasant summers day.
thank god we have an armed forces we can reply on to defend us….oh wait….errrr….hmmmmm…oh dear 😳
I fear for the future. I think it will be bloody & Islam will win & take over Europe because us Westerners are too tolerant & accommodating (appeasing? maybe not quite). When this happens is an unknown, I don’t think it will be soon, but I reckon within a century. All our culture will be trashed, the contents of our museums & art galleries destroyed, the iconoclasm will make Mao’s Cultural Revolution look like a picnic.
It ought to be simple to dismantle Islam in the west.
Unlike the Bible, which is supposedly mostly made up of narrative accounts by different authors and therefore prone to ‘error’, the Koran ‘is’ the revealed word of the supreme being.
It isn’t what some man/men thought the supreme being wanted but the actual words.
Unfortunately different versions exist, parts are clearly lifted from other religious books and it is internally inconsistent. Some ‘supreme’ being that can’t even get a book right! Not only that, the ‘faithful’ have decided that the ‘unalterable’ words should be re-ordered by length of verse!
You couldn’t make it up! Unfortunately someone did and it wasn’t a supreme being.
In our society anyone used to be free to think anything but we didn’t have to ‘respect’ the stupid. Why on earth aren’t we collectively laughing at this alien trash?
‘Breaking news’-
While INBBC obfuscate further on this, NINE more Muslims* have left Britain for Islamic State area of Syria!
* INBBC carefully censors out word ‘MUSLIMS’ now, of course, and attempts to shift blame on to British government!
(Source: BBC TV News channel minutes ago.)
“Nine Britons including four children are arrested by Turkish police as they try to illegally enter Syria.
“Brits arrested on Turkey-Syria border and are now in custody.
“Nine people tried to enter Syria illegally, according to local media
The arrested Brits are three men, two women and four children.”
By SARA MALM
FOR MAILONLINE.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3021861/Nine-Britons-arrested-Turkish-police-try-illegally-enter-Syria.html#ixzz3W5EvazwH
This is the situation in British society when the percentage
of the population which is Muslim is little over 5%.
Imagine the situation in British society as that percentage increases,
as it soon will, to 10%, 20%, and more.
And the political class-Tories, Labour Lib Dems, and much of MSM
(inc GuardianISIS), stiil campaigns for mass immigration from
Islamic societies, including Turkey.
Scientists at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have found that when just 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, their belief will always be adopted by the majority of the society. The scientists, who are members of the Social Cognitive Networks Academic Research Center (SCNARC) at Rensselaer, used computational and analytical methods to discover the tipping point where a minority belief becomes the majority opinion. The finding has implications for the study and influence of societal interactions ranging from the spread of innovations to the movement of political ideals. Minority rules: Scientists discover tipping point for the spread of ideas
While I’m not sure that is true there is no doubt in my mind that when they reach 20% they demand their unshakeable belief take precedence over the weak beliefs of the 80%.
UK’s ethnic minority numbers ‘to rise to 20% by 2051’ Are we screwed?
That link is from 2010. Isn’t the figure already 14%? At current levels of immigration and birth-rate, we’ll be at 20% long before 2051. Not all Islamics, happily.
The only good thing to come out of that 20% tipping point, is that all the idiots who support radical Islam ; Greens, gays, lesbians, liberals and bBC workers, they will be the first to be shown the error of their ways , thank Allah I have brown skin and an islamic name.as I will enjoying filming their assendence to heaven via the nearest crane.
HaHa – you better practise your ‘Allahu Akbar’!
Can you make it a public event , the likes we haven`t seen in Merry England since the Victorian period .
If we went by the faces and voices broadcast by the bBBC, it would appear that ethnic ‘minorities’ already comprise at least 50% of the UK.
The Egyptian government recently closed down 27,000 mosques to combat extremism.
Muslim clerics in Egypt have to promise they will not use Friday prayers for political purposes and have to be licensed. Those who breach the law are banned from preaching anywhere in Egypt.
Egypt is crystal clear that islamic extremism has everything to do with islam and islamic ideology. Egypt is making a stand; intolerance will not be tolerated.
Ironic that a muslim country can do this and noone bats an eyelid. What would happen in the UK if someone suggested doing this?
I read that in Turkey, prior to the reversal of secularism which it is undergoing presently. The sermon for Friday prayers was sent to the mosques from the government; which were then monitored to ascertain that the imams preached the sermon which they had been supplied with. The West needs to learn how to deal with Islam, from countries which have had long experience of doing so.
The BBC seldom reports on Egypt. For instance – I did not hear a dickybird about the decision to crack down on wayward mosques. THOUSANDS of mosques closed down – but not a cheep from the BBC.
But their Middle East staff make sure we know that someone has purloined a door in Gaza.
News values ? What news values ?
I look forward to Yolande Knell’s full report on what is happening in Egypt.
……………………..
In passing – the other day I heard a BBC report on Syria that combined contributions from “cry me a tear for Yasser Arafat” Barbara Plett, Lyse (dont’cha love the Taliban”) Doucet and the fragrant Orla Guerin.
Gruesome .
Orla Guerin: makes The Grim Reaper look like Ronald MacDonald.
And an anti-jihad anti muslim extremist march in Tunis – sadly I can’t imagine that ever happening in the UK now.
Why is anyone surprised? Our government since BLiar at least have been in the pay of Sunni Islamic potentates, and we know that Camoron would sell his own mother if it made him a little cash. But we’re not talking ‘a little cash’ we’re talking tens of millions, which is pocket change to those Arabs with the money, but not to us poor Westerners.
If they are pouring money into America, and are openly associated with Obama then they are certainly going to be looking to do the same here.
Until people to start openly believing in the possibility that bribery and corruption might be taking place then there is no hope at all in even beginning to tackle this problem.
Jeremy and his mentor
http://edgar1981.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/jeremy-bowen-in-new-bbc-interview.html
More fans of Jeremy
http://daphneanson.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/pimping-hamas-propaganda-bbcs-bowen.html?spref=fb
“But, as it is, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him nor safely let him go. Justice in one scale and self-preservation in the other.” Thomas Jefferson.
Basically, the bbc are reporting on the UK’s newest export phenomenon as though it was a village fete in the heart of the Cotswolds, as though it is an everyday part of British culture and life, as though we should care…I’m afraid I don’t.
Look at recent ways that the jihadist incidents are being reported…’many are friends on a misguided adventure’ nothing to do with islam…’headteachers fear many pupils are ready to travel to Syria over the Easter period but don’t want to report them because they don’t want them criminalized’…they are all victims, it’s not their fault, then you see the victim father at the Lee Rigby protests. Pathetic lies.
What is happening is more proof of the collision course against the west and Christianity/Judaism that islam has been on since the inception of the cult, a cult that is becoming more incompatible with our way of life by the day, the majority of muslims want us to fit in with their way of life, it’s integration on their terms and it isn’t working.
The bbc are a main player in the fifth column, they despise our country, getting rid of the bbc would be a good place to start in solving a lot of the UK’s problems.
“Basically, the bbc are reporting on the UK’s newest export phenomenon as though it was a village fete in the heart of the Cotswolds, as though it is an everyday part of British culture and life…”
How true! A few mornings ago I was gob smacked listening to Today when useful idiot (either Naughtie or Humphries) referred to such potential beheaders of infidels as “volunteers” quite as if they were as benign as someone rattling a Cancer Research Tin! Sickening.
it is an islamic fact and stated in the koran and the hadith going back to the 7th century that muslims are allowed under islamic law to lie to and decieve non muslims to protect there fellow co religionist muslim brothers and sisters,that is a fact bore out when the father of one of these jihadists sat before and lied to the home affairs select committe 2 weeks ago when he said his daughter was showed no signs of radicalisation then he pops up himself in a video in the daily mail showing him screaming and shouting anti western,anti british hatred at one of anjem choudary demos outside the american embassy.when are the bbc and the rest of the dopey media going to understand it is not what all it seems within the muslim community when they cry crocodile tears before the media pretending they know nothing about all this extremism and radicalisation of there children when they in fact as parents are the very ones who are radicalising there own children,the bbc and the media have been conned by these parents simple as that.
You either live by the word or you reject it. There is no compromise in religion when it comes to being true to God or Allah or whatever other almighty fairy you want to believe in.
At least the fundamentalists follow their religion word for word. In that respect I tip my hat.
Don’t be a hypocrite. Either follow your religion to the word, or dump it!
The thing is Edward is that Islam is not a religion the same way Nazism was not a religion although their dogmas and aims are identical.
Islam is a supremist political cult aimed at world domination through violence and like Nazism calls for the genocide of the Jewish people and the eradication of Christianity as part of it’s creed.
Another common denominator between Islam and Nazism is that both their founders were practicing Satanists and were demonically possessed. Hitler through his involvement with the occult group the Thule society headed by Germanys top Satanist Dietrich Eckart whilst Mohammad admitted himself in the Koran that he was possessed after summoning demons in the caves at Hira.
Denying that Islam is a religion to suit your argument is like a socialist denying poverty-stricken Cuba is a socialist country, unlike beautiful wealthy Sweden.
And the old ‘bring out the Nazi argument’ when defending Christianity is getting tiresome.
A good point badly made. Very badly made.
Where did Highland defend Christianity? It sounds like you think the shared goal of Nazism and Islam to kill Jews and Christians is a redeeming feature!!??
You appear to have a bugbear against all religion. This is one of the huge weaknesses that undermines counter-jihad. If we concentrated fire on the Jihadi enemy to defend democracy instead of prioritising our personal bugbears, the counter-jihad cause might be doing a little bit better now.
Atheist, Christian, whatever, we are all free to barter in the market place of ideas of democracy.
In the baazar of barbarity of Islam, that’s not the case.
Christian apologists usually bring up Nazism when making a point for or against. You’re right that Highland is not necessarily a Christian, but I’m willing to bet he/she is. Stating that Islam is not a religion would only come from someone of another religion (the only true religion, of course), so I’m willing to place my bets.
I have noticed that this website is populated by a majority of Christians, and I don’t have a problem with that. It’s just that whenever someone posts something that might criticize religion (with the exception of Islam), there’s a rush to attack their point of view.
Edward,
There is good evidence that something supernatural brought an incredible darkness to Germany – a significantly Christian nation – to deceive the populace for several years. It certainly wasn’t the One who proclaimed Himself to be the Light of the World.
No, it was a Catholic called Adolph Hitler.
Multiculturalism is little more than a piece of political spin to justify the disastrous consequences of a failed immigration policy. Throw in a few nice, warm sounding words like diversity, that have too broad a context to mean anything at all, and call any criticism racist. Suddenly it sounds like a real philosophy.
What is so crushingly disappointing to me is that after more that a millennium of darkness and ignorance imposed by the church, we had at last emerged as a modern, tolerant, and largely secular society, albeit with Christian values. And yet this defining tolerance, through uncontrolled immigration has allowed the import of a whole population, whose culture is completely at odds with our own, and whose religion precludes any possibility of it’s own age of enlightenment. The liberal left, the very people who once would have stood for progress, now kowtows to a kind of religious fascism that would drag us back to the middle ages.
“we had at last emerged as a modern, tolerant, and largely secular society, albeit with Christian values.”
Some of course would argue that the bedrock of our democracy is our judeo-Christian values. It does not seem to be a coincidence that freedom under the rule of law took root in Christian countries and tyranny in Muslim countries.
Maybe that’s because Christianity is about love and forgiveness and Islam is about hate and vengeance?
Could there be more contrast between the life of Christ and the life of Mohammed? Christ sacrificed Himself on the Cross to atone for our sins and after Jews and Christians declined to be duped by Muhammed feigning belief in judeo-Christian teachings to gull them into accepting him as ‘God’s last prophet’, he threw a strop and unleashed a 1400 year murder campaign against Jews and Christians and whomsoever may have the slightest case of scepticism about his somewhat improbable claim.
There is no difference between the lives of Christ and Mohammed mainly because they are irrelevant place holders in hermaneutic text. Both stories run on the same lines;god speaks in their ear,they tell us what’s what and we trot off with the recieved wisdom. It is an ideology for the gullible and mentally feeble. It is also very useful for invading nations for example the Romans without whom we would not be Christian and the British for which the Africans are now eterally grateful.
It would be far better if humanity ditched this supernatural nonsense.
‘It is also very useful for invading nations for example the Romans without whom we would not be Christian…’
Wrong.
‘Christianization of the Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms began in AD 597, influenced by Celtic Christianity from the north-west and by the Roman church from the south-east, gradually replacing Anglo-Saxon polytheism which had been introduced to what is now England over the course of the 5th and 6th centuries with the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons. ‘
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_Christianity
So not part of the Roman invasion. In fact, not even exclusively ‘Roman’.
MotCObus, I suggest you read the four Gospels this Easter and compare them with a history of the life of Mohammed.
Manon, I have avoided responding to many of the things you post on this site, as I partly share the view that you are a troll, of some description. However, when you put forward into contemplation, that there was no difference between the lives of Christ and Mohammad (apart from theoretical interpretation of Scripture); the lacunae in your knowledge become increasingly apparent.
I think if you are going to post about such things, you shall need to enlarge your understanding of the subject. I recommend you read: “The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran”; “The Truth about Muhammad” (both by Robert Spencer) and “The Third Choice” by Mark Durie. My aim is not to insult you, but I think that you would begin to comprehend the profound differences between Islam and Christianity (and also their founders) if you were to read these books, or even one of them.
It does seem a shame that manon isn’t willing to appreciate the difference between what Christ said and what Mohammed said. That difference being that it wouldn’t worry him if a Christian knew who he was and where he lived, but it would if a Muslim did. Likewise if he had the choice of boarding a plane where only the Muslim passengers were searched or where only the Christians were searched, what flight would he take?
While atheists insist on being so egocentric it does undermine the democratic unity needed to fight Jihad. This week in the Spectator as well we had the leftist Nick Cohen making the idiotic claim that those on the right only oppose Jihad because they hate Muslims.
This is the moral narcicisim that jihadists exploit to the full.
“There is no difference between the lives of Christ and Mohammed”
That’s ridiculous. How many people did Christ kill, enslave or rape?
Well put, hp.
We have the incredible modern example of Albania where a dictator abolished all religious belief. After his death, the blood feuds – rather typical of Islam – resumed almost instantly.
The term ‘Christian value’ is often misinterpreted as a value that comes from Biblical scripture, but in most cases it is a value that comes from the minds of people who just happen to be Christian. You could call it a common sense value.
The abolishment of the slave trade in the first half of the 19th century was indeed passed through Parliament with lots of help from various Christians, but in those days it would have been unusual to be a non-Christian in a position of power.
Likewise with the abolishment of capital punishment. I’m sure that would be classed as a ‘Christian value’ too.
But neither capital punishment or slavery are outlawed in The Bible. So where did the decisions to abolish both come from?
There has been lots of talk of Islam being the religion of war and evil, but Christianity has an equally dark page in its own résumé. It isn’t until the irrational religious messages – that have their roots in the sweltering, skin-blistering Middle East – become more irrational as they bed themselves down in the sumptuous surroundings of moist, water abundant, northern Europe where people are spoilt with another day of hard toil on fertile land getting soaked to the bone with yet more water in the form of rain.
We live in the land of plenty. The Bible is at odds with our own understanding of the world simply because we do not get plagues of locusts and we do not starve as they did in the Middle East through lack of water and fertile land.
It must have been a much more ‘cut-throat’ society over there in the Holy Land, and that’s not surprising when life is much more precarious due to climate and geography. No wonder the people in that era needed something to give them hope and discipline.
The commandment “Thou shalt not kill” seems so obvious and without question to us because we sit in front of our computer screens with a cup of tea or, perhaps, a Big Mac, without any need to kill our neighbours so we can reap more of the little rewards that a desert climate can afford.
But was that commandment beyond the intellectual scope of a human being even if that person lived in the Middle East in the year 1AD? According to Christian authoritatives – Yes!
As far as Christian teaching goes; we are all born into sin and the only moral guide is God himself. Humans do not have the capacity to understand morality so we have to accept God’s word on right and wrong – good and bad.
Make of that what you will, but if some of us could scrutinise our own religious faith as closely as we scrutinise the BBC, we might actually begin to understand those who do not share our beliefs.
I completely agree with you Hipplepooter, although I have no religious faith myself, Judeo-Christian values are indeed the bedrock of Western democracy. Unfortunately, the church itself has not always acted in accordance with those values, but that’s a different argument altogether.
Complete twaddle. Judeo Christian values are more cloely linked to Feudalism and Monarchy than democracy.
Complete bollocks.
MotCo,
Then you have to find a way to explain away the influence of Christianity, especially that of the Non-conformists on Feudalism, Monarchy & Democracy.
If you do not do so, you will be forced to rewrite the history of the UK.
Once again you’ve missed the point. We are discussing values not the political power of the church.
That last point was addressed to the man who seems to be stuck on a bus.
Thanks for clarifying, OA! This site unfortunately has a mind of its own when patching in ‘Reply’ postings. Think you may have also slightly missed the point in that it was adherence to true values (true Biblical values?), rather than distorted or invented ones, that brought about dramatic change to the UK.
Although Wolf Hall presents a rather worldly, confused & troubled Henry to the viewer it did also shine a light in Episode 1 on the Light that comes when an undistorted view of Jesus of Nazareth in one’s own language may be had from four different Gospel writers plus some others who had remarkable encounters post mortem & post-resurrection.
Sorry, I misread that bit after “stuck”. He couldn’t possibly be stuck there. I don’t know what made me think that.
That bus must be in Clapham, in Lancs/Yorks border country (just off the A65) by now.
That was what I meant
Up2,
The order in which this site posts replies does seem a bit strange at times. I didn’t miss your point as I hadn’t seen your post. In fact I completely agree with you. I was just making the point in a more general sense. Even from my point of view as non-believer it’s impossible to ignore the way in which our culture has been defined by Judeo-Christianity.