The politicians have been pressuring the BBC to use any name other than ‘Islamic State’ to describe the Islamic State in yet more appeasement of the Muslim pressure groups who wish to suppress all news and information that might shed light on why Muslims wish to join the Islamic State.
Here’s Cameron & Co’s equation….
If you use the term ‘Islamic State’ this will anger Muslims, these angry Muslims will be radicalised, and once radicalised they will join the Islamic State in order to defend the honour of the Muslim Community besieged as it is by the Kufaar….but it’s nothing to do with Islam.
This of course is similar to that other equation that means that Cameron & Co won’t put boots on the ground to fight the Islamic State….
If we put boots on the ground Muslims will get angry because we, the Kufaar, are killing Muslims…the angry Muslims will become radicalised and go on a Holy War to defend Muslims…by killing as many Muslims as possible and then claiming it is all the West’s fault….but it’s nothing to do with Islam….oh and when it suits, they will demand we put boots on the ground to defend Muslims and then become ‘radicalised’ when we don’t…ala Syria.
The BBC will then ask how it is that young British Muslims, disenfranchised, marginalised and demonised, become radicalised? What they never ask is why it is only Muslims?
The BBC has of course staunchly defended itself from the Politicians’ pressure and has declared that it is only fair that it calls the Islamic State by its name…..‘giving “the impression of support” for the group’s opponents and “would not preserve the BBC’s impartiality”. ‘
Curiously the BBC is more than happy to redact the words ‘Muslim’ and ‘Islamic’ when reporting terrorist offences or crimes by Muslims….all too often limiting their report to the names of the arrested.
The BBC is of course not so keen to call a terrorist a terrorist…unless he is an Israeli ‘terrorist’ or ‘war criminal’…then it’s quite fair to apply such labels.
Has ANYONE managed to provide any evidence that ISIS are NOT following the directions of the so called prophet Mohammed?
There are millions of Muslims, thousands of Imams who presumably are well versed in the Quran and Haddiths and could refute ISIS’s claims.
Not one, as far as I am aware, has done so.
ISIS, ISIL, call it what you will, is a Moslem organization, and with the exception of Cameron, the BBC and left fellow travelers most people see them as Moslems at war with infidels and other Moslems.
There have been some weak attempts to do so. These refutations aren’t exactly in the public domain though for some reason. Presumably because a pre-schooler could poke holes in them.
In the interests of full disclosure I am a Muslim.
Yes there are scholars who have condemned ISIS. The best one is Sheikh Imran Hosein. Visit his website http://imranhosein.org/articles/islam-and-politics/511-is-the-sunni-caliphate-really-restored-in-iraq.html
Listen to his videos where he denounces them for their actions.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SheikhImranHosein/videos
Look M … has he condemned the texts and teachings, those Quran, Hadith, Sira that continue to inspire, and mandate Islamic fascism and violence whether in Pakistan. Somalia, Libya … or … as we have seen London, Paris, Sweden anywhere in Europe … or Canada or indeed the US Texas, or Australia? … because if not, he s paying lip service.
He s ignoring the elephant in the room, its Islamic violence, from Islamic adherents, and the Islamic state
mandated in Islamic texts and teachings
… agreed some muslim s maybe moderate, but that is INSPITE of Islam not because of it, and if enough in numbers the less moderate they become … that is because of Islamic texts and teachings.
It is not the texts and teachings of the Quran, Ahadith and Seerah that are the root cause of that violence. Rather it is the deliberate evil interpretations of these works by those whose hearts are corrupted and bent on denying the truth. Of course a lot of these so called “Islamic” terrorist groups have been aided by the wicked NATO alliance and its client states. Remember those rebels in Libya which NATO helped on overthrowing Gaddafi? Remember those fighters who fought the USSR in Afghanistan taking great help from America?
You should really listen to his lectures. He knows more about Islam than you, of that I am sure.
Look, I’m sure 80% of Muslims are normal people that want to get on with their lives. The problem is, supposedly ‘normal muslims’ randomly fall victim to Sudden Jihad Syndrome and start killing innocent people – e.g. doctor that tried to blow up Glasgow airport, Charlie Hebdo killer (neighbours said he was lovely).
We (non-muslims) have no way of telling nutter from neighbour and opinion polls keep returning some terrifying results:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
Click to access 2006_02_07_times.pdf
I used to work with an Algerian. He is a very nice guy, but he does the ‘they’re not muslims’ thing whenever there is an atrocity. That isn’t good enough. Muslims need to state that the Koran is wrong in places – e.g. non-muslims to pay special taxes, so that they know they’re oppressed and humiliated or that it’s OK to marry a 9 year old or have four wives or stone a woman for adultery or throw a gay man off a building.,
I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this, but your religion and co-religionists have serious issues to work out, before you can mix with the rest of us in the modern world.
PS: I live in London and enjoy a chat on the way home. I was discussing this case at the time the investigation was ongoing:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/01/newport-wales-missing-teenage-girl
The muslim driver agreed with my suggestion that her parent’s might be to blame (this was conjecture, before her body was recovered). He then went on to state that he would kill his daughter if she ever did anything that contravened Shariah Law and brought shame on the family. Surely you can see why ordinary Brits that mix with ‘ordinary’ Muslims come away with a negative image of Islam?
Firstly how accurate are these polls? Are they open to easy manipulation?
Secondly the Quran is not wrong. Many Muslims can be and are wrong but the Quran is not wrong. If Muslims were to believe that, then we have no business in calling ourselves Muslims. (I suspect those that have power in the Judeo-Christian Modern West would love nothing better than Muslims to do as you have said).
Regarding non Muslims paying special taxes – it is not to oppress them. The whole political system of Islam is very different to the political systems of most European nations in which religion plays very little role in the public affairs.
Regarding men marrying children, this is not permissible in the Quran even though today Muslim men are doing this – either out of ignorance, corruption (of the heart) or because of fabricated ahadith. Marriage is between adults i.e those who have reached the age of puberty and have psychologically matured to accept the duties and responsibilities that married life entails. The former is easily determined, the latter not so easily however there is no arbitrary age for marriage in Islam.
Regarding polygamy – what is wrong with it? The One of created both Men and Women and their relations has allowed for this. And throughout history in many cultures polygamy was a normal and healthy part of their society.
I do not think the the punishment for a man engaging in homosexuality is being thrown off a building (at least not from the Islamic POV). However I am sure it is equivalent to the punishment for adultery or similar. (To be honest I do not know exactly what is the punishment for those convicted of homosexual actions, perhaps it would be better if you corresponded with an Islamic scholar who deals with penal ethics in Islam?) By the way the punishment for adultery USED to be stone until death until it was ABROGATED to lashings. The abrogation was of the law of stoning in the Mosiac Shariah.
Yes you are correct, many of my co-religionist have serious issues to work out. Islam is perfect, we are far from it.
“Regarding non Muslims paying special taxes – it is not to oppress them.”
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
—Qur’an, [Quran 9:29]
I can’t be bothered to refute your entire post, if you’re going to lie and pretend Jizya isn’t about subduing non-muslims.
Your claims that ‘Islam is perfect’ and ‘the Quran is not wrong’ place you firmly in the ‘extremist’ camp, in my opinion, and I’d rather you weren’t in the UK.
Sorry, nothing personal, but I’d rather not see my country descend into the strife we see when Muslims congregate.
One cannot take one verse stand alone and draw conclusions on its basis. That is schoolboy thinking (& unfortunately many Muslims are schoolboys).
Firstly the Quran is in Arabic and Arabic alone. No translation, no matter how good, is the Quran. It is a bit like translating Shakespeare into another tongue – it then ceases to be the authentic Shakespeare. Having said that I recommend that one use Muhammad Asad’s translation as that is the best one in the English tongue. His rendering is more accurate albeit a more difficult read.
Secondly, as I have written above, before drawing conclusions it is vital to study the Quranic verses not in isolation but together with all other verses of the same/similar topic. Without taking in to consideration the whole of the Quran when studying a verse, one will be open to misguidance (and those Muslims who dance to the tune of the Anti-Christ are using them as justification for their crimes, e.g ISIS et al).
The Quran was revealed to the Last Prophet and he was sent to teach it and therefore an understanding of the ahadiths are also necessary. Also vital to understanding it is the historical context of revelation.
9:29 is from Surah At-Taubah. Most of it revealed around the time of The Campaign to Tabouk and most of it directed to those pagans who violated their treaty obligations and the hypocrite Muslims. It also concerns itself with those Children of Israel who (secretly) broke their treaties with the Muslims and allied themselves with the pagan Meccans in attempts to destroy the Muslim community of Medina.
This is the translation by Asad –
[And] fight against those who – despite having been vouchsafed revelation [aforetime]- do not [truly] believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon them] till they [agree to] pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled [in war].
It is very important to also read the commentary that Asad has made upon this, I will not quote it verbatim as it is quite extensive however the gist is as follows:
1. In Dar-ul-Islam, every able-bodied Muslim is liable for compulsory military service.
2. This is, primarily, a religious obligation, non-Muslim citizens, who do not subscribe to the ideology of Islam, cannot in fairness be expected to assume a similar burden.
3. Non Muslims must be accorded full protection of all their civic rights and of their religious freedom: and it is in order to compensate the Muslim community for this unequal distribution of civic burdens that a special tax is levied on non-Muslim citizens.
4. jizyah is no more and no less than an exemption tax in lieu of military service and in compensation for the “covenant of protection” (dhimmah) accorded to such citizens by the Dar-ul-Islam.
5. Only such of the non-Muslim citizens who, if they were Muslims, would be expected to serve in the armed forces of the state are liable.
6. All women, males who have not yet reached full maturity, old men, all sick or crippled men, and priests and monks are exempt from the Jizyah tax.
7. All non-Muslim citizens who volunteer for military service are exempted from Jizyah.
So, again I repeat, Jizyah is not about oppressing non Muslims.
M – “Firstly the Quran is in Arabic and Arabic alone. No translation, no matter how good, is the Quran.”
So what you are saying is that all people who aren’t completely fluent in Arabic should leave Islam as they haven’t got a clue what it’s about.
Are you completely flent in Arabic? If not why haven’t you left the religion yet?
Good point, Demon. I have no evidence, but I suspect that most muslims in the world do not understand Arabic. So they can never read the Koran. The whole thing is a sick joke.
No I am not saying those who don’t have a fluent command of the Arabic tongue should leave Islam. Rather they should try to increase their understanding of that language. Which is what I am trying to do. However one should use translation to help him BUT he should bear in mind that the translation is not the original and the multi-dimensional meanings of the Quran will not necessarily be captured in their entirety. That’s all.
Under sharia, it is blasphemous for a non-muslim even to attempt to read the koran, or to comment upon it, or to discuss it. I think “M” forgot to mention that bit.
Re the polls manipulation etc. can you point me at any that contradict the responses of British Muslims expressed in the numerous examples over the last 5 years that show a significant % and therefore in real terms a lot of people who support these atrocities and empathise with the perpetrators
M – “He knows more about Islam than you”
Look lets cut the crap, he can dress it up, put on the prettiest bows, wax lyrical on and on about it.
but … it is still a deeply flawed, dangerous, violent political ideology, and the word of who you sadly call a godhead – Allah is immutable, according to your own text
M … “bent on ignoring the truth”
… of Islam!!!!!! …. dude 😀 what are you smokin
Sorry M if you thought you would get a rational conversation on this site.
It is infested with racists, bigots and the losers in life who have to blame anyone (preferably non-white, female, gay or another religion) for their predicament.
Noggin is the epitome of what passes for rational thinking. Any different view is dismissed with as much offence as possible. Stringing together a coherent sentence is beyond his limited thought processes.
He is actually a very frightened cowed individual. This is is only outlet
Ahhh! “offence” 😀 of utmost importance to you,
now why is that?.
The old standby … “waaycist” even 😀
Islam – deeply flawed, dangerous, violent political ideology, well to that I could add totalitarian.
Your rationale against this?
“blame anyone (preferably non-white, female, gay or another religion)”
What religion am I?, am I religious? … pray tell
and
… females, gay, non white? 😀 you are so far off the mark its laughable.
That’s a bit rich, coming from someone who can’t spell “his” and who doesn’t understand punctuation.
“Unbelievable” is not the word, it’s just astonishing how these supposed dignified leaders grow more cowardly by the day, more appeasing by the minute and more stupid by the second…camoron, merkel, obama, sarkozy..the whole lot of them are liars.
The way it seems to me is that these people want a war, they are forcing the islam agenda a bit too much and I just don’t know why? What is so important about islam to us in the western world? Many in the UK are sceptical about their own religion yet we are being forced to accept the ideology of a ‘religion’ that is totally at odds to our way of life and I just want one politician to tell us why.
There is a stat I read recently that was seriously worrying, the amount of NI numbers handed to romanian and bulgarian immigrants has increased from 27k in 2013 to 187k last year?? And that is with camoron telling us he will cut immigration, and this is on top of the thousands of African immigrants the EU are letting in.
What has happened to the boat immigrants from Libya? All has gone mysteriously quiet on that front! It’s as though the liberals are on a fast track to implement their multicultural utopia before people realize what has happened and can act!
I read the news, watch the TV and listen to the radio and the world is going mad yet whilst Rome is burning our so called leaders play their fiddles to the same old tunes.
Glen
“our so called leaders”
The misleaders.
We must leave the EU, then we can begin the task of unravelling the recent past.
They don’t want war, but they don’t necessarily want to preserve our nation. They think that the population can change, but the country will continue. I guess they’re right to some extent – the Edwardians are dead, but a nation called Britain still exists. I just think that there is more to Britain than land and architecture.
I have no issue with skilled, controlled immigration, where *every* immigrant is a net benefit to the UK. I don’t care about race (my wife is ethnically Chinese, but culturally English). I do, however, passionately care about British culture.
Immigration is at such high levels that there is no chance of integrating immigrants (especially the unskilled and those that reject our way of life – their children might integrate over time, if they weren’t married off to first cousins in the third world (on pain of death).
Effectively, every generation is ‘first generation’ – either a UK born man ruling the roost and controlling the recently arrived wife/cousin or a recently arrived husband/cousin that considers women to be mere possesions.)).
It is impossible now. The politicians are lying and if not lying are in denial. The media is not to be trusted. The BBC is even confused. Is it Isis or Isil or whatever?
These idiots seem to think words can be made to mean whatever they decree. This is the way a nation and a culture dies.
Isis is real. it exists. it is a revival of the Caliphate. It is ruthless . It is founded on the Quran and the Hadiths. They say so and we better believe them.
My father’s old partner left Germany in 1933. He was Jewish and said that he had read Mein Kampf and believed what was written in it and that the Jews had no future in Germany.
Most of his friends ands family said otherwise and put their heads in the sands. They would not face reality. They died.
We face a determind foe and we need to understand this now.
We need to listen to our enemy and believe what he says. That is how you survive not by inventing a different reality and lying to yourself and the people you are responsible for.
These politicians and these media fools need to go and make way for those who will defend and fight for their culture and their families.
In the end it ,as always,it will be left to those ordinary men and women to do what our foolish leaders will not do.
Yes, dave s, the New Caliphate keeps sending the West the clearest of messages in the form of the ever increasing body count of Westeners. What is there not to understand?
The BBC seems, of late, to be wheeling out Tom Holland to explain why the New Caliphate might indeed have something to do with Islam. On This Week , however, he was claimimg that there was some new problem or other in Islam that only Muslims could solve and that only Muslims could determine what a true Muslim might be. This would be fine if what Muslims thought and did affected only Muslims. As Muslims feel entitled to murder non-muslims simply because they are non-Muslims, putting one’s hope in a “Muslim reformation” seems to be wishful thinking of the most absurd kind. Most non-Muslims would be dead by then.
The fact is that the political class made a massive strategic blunder in allowing millions of Muslims set up mini-caliphates in Britain where Sharia law applies. It is as if the British government in the early 1930s had allowed millions of devoted Nazis to set up mini-Reichs “communities” where the Nuremberg laws applied . When hostilities break out, the folly is self evident. The front line is now in Britain instead of continental Europe or the Middle East. Cameron will waffle on about names for the New Caliphate or other obfuscations. Prattle on about “broad spectrum responses” or ” hearts and minds”. If the vast majority of muslims are moderate, peace loving, law-abiding enrichers, why is the “hearts and minds” approach necessary? Preaching to the converted is usually considered to be a waste of time. Cameron’s grand strategy is to waffle and hope the problem will disappear in 30 or 40 years time. Although when the problem literally does try to go away to Syria, the wisest of the wise are desperate to stop them.
Yes, the threat to us from ISIS or whatever is not from its visible geographical centre in the middle east or africa. it is from its vast, distributed, civilian front which is already at our doorsteps. The dismembering of this presence while properly respecting the civil rights of those caught up in it through their religion, is the central conundrum. Ironically, it is the Left who have least to say that is of any use on this issue – one would think that having practised (and continuing to practise) such ‘activism’ & legal warfare for decades themselves, they would recognise the signs, and see what is happening. It is almost as though all their old secular-sectarian methodologies have been stolen from them and re-purposed by those whose intentions are truly alien to Western life, even the contorted and worthless version of it espoused by the left-collectivists.
I am campaigning for the use of DAESH. These barbarians are clearly Islamic but not the only state to claim so. This is important because the operative word is THE. Their claim is to be the Caliphate, the single state for all Muslims.
BTW by what definition are they a state?
Some say calling them DAESH irritates the self-declared Islamic State because it reduces the grandness and splendour of the posturing name they have given to themselves. This is even though DAESH is an acronym for the arabic al-Dawla al-Islamiya fil Iraq wa’al Sham. Isn’t that a plus?
Daesh it all
The BBC, the MPs and the semantics of ISIS terrorism
The idea that you can understand or have power over something or somebody by finding its “true name” seems to be a throwback to the days of magical thinking and fairy tales. If a Hindu family lost a child the belief was it had been taken by a supernatural entity. They would then call the next child something unpleasant like Kuriya, pile of dung convinced that the entity would overlook what was worthless.
I totally agree.
Although, during the Brazilian World Cup C4 interviewed a girl that had been kidnapped and forced to work as a sex worker. She’d escaped and returned home. She’d deliberately got fat and made herself look undesirable to avoid being taken again.
BBC are now doing one of the few styles they seem to excell at these post-Blair days – emoting. And condescending. And obfiscating. Reporting from Walsall, the home town of three British football fans gunned down by [fill your own blank: terrorist/militant/IS/So-called Islamic State/ISIS/ISIL/troubled youth radicalised by the internet/etc etc] I’m told by our BBC man on location outside the local football ground that “The Black Country is a tight-knit community”
Really? Honestly?
Oh dear, where to start?
Let’s just say we have two rather different ‘tight-knit’ communities here now.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100275208/radical-islam-in-secular-schools-now-the-shocking-truth-emerges/
‘What the Trojan Horse scandal has revealed is that leaders of the Muslim community in Birmingham have been creating a Wahhabi-inspired counterculture in secular, not faith, schools.’
The brutal reality is that islam is incapable of reform. Any strict observance of islam has to include sharia, because sharia is absolutely central to islam. Being based supposedly on the word of allah and the utterances of Mohammed, sharia itself is never going to change. The fact that some koranic verses are more conciliatory than others is neither here nor there, because the aggressive verses always supersede the less aggressive ones.
Even if certain islamic speakers purport to support reform, I’d be reluctant to take their assurances at face value. It’s a pretty safe bet that sharia has a definition of “reform” which is spectacularly at odds with that which any non-muslim would understand (just as it has for, for instance, “terrorist“, “defamation” and “human rights“).
The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) comprises 57 states, i.e. all those countries under muslim rule. The OIC has a habit of issuing declarations and demands, which are invariably self-serving, even when phrased so as to seem superficially neutral, which are always granted unanimous support and which refer in their clauses to their basis in sharia.
When, for example, the OIC demands that the UN as a whole enforces respect for “religion“, this is not prompted by some ecumenical sentiment, or a hitherto inconspicuous respect for Christianity, although that, we can be sure, is how both the beebyanka and Cameron will interpret it. In sharia, there is only one religion. Every muslim country, including all those nominally allied to the West, has supported these declarations, which means every muslim country, to some degree, already implements sharia, even when, ostensibly, some don’t.
An hilarious article I saw on Al Jazera ( which appears more balanced than the Beeb) was a story of a German school who advised their (girl) pupils to not dress “provoticabily” in case it offended the large local Muslin ‘community’.
I think some of the locals were none too pleased.
So, I’m guessing that if Islamic State is ‘nothing to do with Islam’, by the same measure the Crusades were ‘nothing to do with Christianity’, Spanish Conquistadors were ‘nothing to do with Catholicism’ and the Inquisitions themselves were ‘nothing to do with the Vatican’..?
Do I win a prize?
In the interests of full disclosure I am a Muslim.
The Crusades were naught to do with the religion that was exemplified by the Messiah the Son of Mary. As a Muslim I know this. They were wars waged under the guise of Christianity, to give them some sort of legitimacy. It is interesting that the part of Christendom which ultimately degraded itself in becoming secular, where now a man can marry another man, was responsible for those wars of oppression.
Not so the Orthodox World!
In the interests of full disclosure I am a not an adherent to the ideology Islam.
Incorrect … everything to do with religion, and one “so called” religion, in particular preventing pilgrim passage and increasingly violent raids for decades.
this is as good as many other FACTUAL accounts.
https://youtu.be/TMGRGtiO9Ro
The time of the Crusades was an age of almost universal faith in the West and in the lands of Byzantium come to that so it is necessary to view the Crusades also in that light.
There is a school of thought that attributes the Dark Ages in Europe to the closing of the Mediterranean by the Islamic armies.
So the clash of civilisations has ancient roots indeed.
The attempts by Western Christian Europe to take over the Holy Land would inevitably have been from a mixture of motives as always in human affairs but it was , in the context of the time ,at least as legitimate as the later conquest of Byzantium and Constantinople by the armies of Islam under the Turks.
As always it depends on your point of view.
Whether a secular world is a degraded one is open to argument. Europe has long been secular in inspiration and unless there is some cataclysmic event will stay so. The Islamic world is still in an age of faith .That is a matter for the Islamic world but there is no justification for the secular West or the Islamic East to impose their way of thinking upon the other. It will lead to war and destruction. It is for this reason that seperationism is maybe the best course of action. Minimal contact and minimal reason for offence on either side.
Whilst the average man during the Crusades in the West was a man of faith, in my opinion, the leaders and financiers of those wars I cannot accept as real Christians.
Let me tell you something, the conquest of Constantinople was not a good thing to have been done by the armies of Islam and definitely not the way they treated the people and the city. It has left a great wound in the heart of Orthodox Christianity.
I agree with one thing you have written, separationism may be the best course of action HOWEVER the Modern West cannot help but interfere. She is hell bent on transferring the status of ruling state to Imposter Israel (and this necessitates interference and deception in the East) and simultaneously the Modern West is destroying the native Europeans by replacement level immigration, feminism, abortion etc etc.
‘Imposter Israel’, eh M?
The one state in the Near East with freedom of speech, property rights, proper democracy where defeated parties go into loyal opposition, separate judiciary and which treats women and gays as equals in society.
Are you passing yourself off as a representative of moderate Islam?
Not impressed.
Yes, Imposter Israel. This Israel is trying to convince the Children of Israel (already has done so) and the rest of Mankind that it is the Holy Israel of the Prophet’s David & Solomon (PBUT). It is NOT! A state built on the ethnic cleansing and continuing oppression of those who resist its wickedness. What good is “freedom of speech”, “democracy” and “property rights” when a native cannot live in his country, in where his family have lived for countless generations, in dignity?
Also Holy Israel would never tolerate “Gay Pride” marches such as those that happen in Tel Aviv.
I am Muslim. I do not subscribe to this division of “moderate” Islam vs “extreme” Islam. There is just Al-Islam.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688255/posts
1. Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel’s border in order to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Arabs lost and Israel took control of the land. Do you agree that if the Koranimals don’t want to lose territory to Israel, then they shouldn’t start wars? Do you agree that there is justice that Israel, who as far back as 1948 has always sought peace with her far larger neighbors, should live in prosperity – making the desert bloom – while the residents of 19 adjacent Arab countries who are blessed with far more land as well as oil wealth live in their own feces?
2. Did you know that the “Palestinians” could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a countries of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years before Mohammed ever had a wet dream about virgins? The Arabs rejected the UN offer and went to war with the infant Israeli nation. The Arabs lost and have been whining about it ever since. Do you agree this is like a murderer who kills his parents and asks for special treatment since he is now an orphan?
3. Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy? Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians? How about to other Arabs? Wouldn’t you just LOVE to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, or Syria?
4. Since as many Jews (approximately 850,000) were kicked out of Arab countries as were Arabs who left present day Israel (despite being literally begged to stay), why should Arabs be permitted to return to Israel if Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Arab countries? Can you explain why Arabs can worship freely in Israel but Jews would certainly be hung from street lamps after having their intestines devoured by an Arab mob if they so much as entered an Arab country?
5. Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps? And why are those refugee camps still there? Could it be that the billions of dollars that the UNWRA has sent there goes to terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Hezbollah? How did Yassir Arafat achieve his $300 million in wealth? Why aren’t these funds distributed for humanitarian use?
6. Did you know that the Arabs in the disputed territories (conquered by Israel in the 1967 war which was started by Arabs) and who are not Israelis already have two countries right now? And that they are called Egypt and Jordan?
7. If your complaint is about the security fence which Israel is finally building in the Disputed Territories, are you aware that it is built solely to keep the “brave” Arab terrorists out so that they can no longer self detonate on busses, in dining halls or pizzerias and kill Jewish grandmothers and schoolchildren? Why are the Arabs so brave when they target unarmed civilians but even when they outnumber their opponents they get their sandy asses kicked all the way to Mecca when they are faced with Jewish soldiers? Why do Arab soldiers make the French look like super heroes?
8. Please explain why you are so concerned about Arabs, who possess 99% of the land in this region and are in control of the world’s greatest natural resource, which literally flows out of the ground? Can’t their brother muslims offer some of the surplus land and nature’s riches to the “Palestinians”? Or is it true that Arabs are willing to die right down to the last “Palestinian”?
9. Why do you not exhibit the same level of concern for say, people in Saudi Arabia who are beheaded, subject to amputation, stoning, honor killing etc.? What about women who are denied any semblance of basic civil rights, including the right not to be treated as property for the entertainment and abuse of her father, brothers, or husbands? What about the Muslims in Sudan and Egypt who are still enslaved, or the women there whose genitalia are barbarically cut off? How about the oppression of Shiites by Sunnis, the gassing of the Kurds by Iraq, or the massacre of “Palestinians” by Jordan (Black September)? Why doesn’t this concern you?
10. Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel? What would happen if the Israelis gave up their weapons and disarmed? Would they live to see the next day? But what would happen if the Arabs completely disarmed? You know the answer: They would all be AT PEACE! And if there is no war to rile them up, the Arabs would be forced to look at their own repressive, pre-medieval societies. Why would they want to do that when there are Jews to kill?
11. Have you heard “People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”? Can you see the parallels to the Arabs, who are blessed with land and oil, but still gladly train their children to kill themselves in order to kill Jews? Have you heard Golda Meir’s words to the effect of “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours”? Why do the Arabs hate so much?
From the Islamic POV, it would be better to call “Palestine” the Holy Land as that is what it is. “Palestine” is the secular name. (Many Muslims fall prey to this). It was the Lord God who had given this Holy Land to Abraham (PBUH), his children and all those who followed his religion. Once the Children of Israel ceased to follow in Abraham’s (PBUH) footsteps their claim to this Holy Land was then null& voided. (They had slain many messengers , changed the Word of God and refused to accept the Son of Mary as the True Messiah amongst many of their sins). The deed of the Holy Land then fell to those who still followed in Abraham’s footsteps, those who followed the Last Prophet(PBUH).
The UN has no authority to do what it did as it went against the Lord God. From the Islamic POV it is not a matter of accepting the 1967 borders or accepting the partition plan of 1948. The Imposter state of Israel has been re-established by Gog & Magog to eventually rule the world. This Imposter Israel is flagrantly going against the commandments of the Lord God and the Children of Israel are being taking for a wild goose chase by Gog & Magog.
From the Islamic eschatological POV Saudi Arabia had to be established before Israel could be reborn. In fact the Kingdom has committed the greatest treason against the Muslim World. I cannot wait till it goes back into the garbage bin and the Hejaz is liberated.
M – I’m not religious at all but your first paragraph is disgusting. What it claims has led to all the religious wars for 1400 years. It gives Muslims carte blanche to invade other peoples’ lands because they don’t believe in Mohammed. What you said about the Jews is frankly racist.
What is disgusting?
It does not give Muslims carte blanche to invade other peoples’ lands. For example what the Ottomans did was wrong when they attacked, relentlessly, Eastern Europe for aggressive reasons only. The Holy Land has been SPECIFICALLY designated by the Lord of the Worlds for people who follow in the footsteps of Abraham (PBUH). Occupancy of the Holy Land is conditional.
What is racist?
That the Children of Israel slew Messengers? That the Rabbis changed the Word of God? That they rejected the Messiah, the son of Mary? That they were expelled from the Holy Land twice for their wickedness, firstly by a pagan Babylonian army and then secondly by a pagan Roman army?
M – I believe you have been flushed out
… hmmm when the ideology you ve been indoctrinated into is so utterly flawed, I m afraid education is no defence.
… by their words you shall know them eh!
While it is correct that the church of the crusades may be rightly described as apostate and therefore not truly Christian (ie. following Christ) it is also true that Israel has fallen from the ideal that God asked of the people of Israel which, the Bible states, is the reason why He sent His Son to be an atonement for all peoples.
That means that the present State of Israel is something that is political AND separate from Biblical ‘Israel’. It is notable that the State of Israel is not a religious entity and did not set out to be right from the outset in 1948. Some might argue that is, perhaps, not a good thing. You cannot turn back the clock on this.
The modern 1948> State of Israel cannot be an imposter as it is not in any way replicating the original Israel of the Bible. True, it asks to be allowed to occupy the same territory in peace, something that some nations are opposed to but on which many others would have a variety of different views. As you well know, the international community are still struggling with that issue.
The Lord God has put a ban on the Children of Israel from taking possession of the Holy Land that is until Gog and Magog are let loose. (This was a divine punishment which happened twice, in the second time the Children of Israel were scattered throughout the Earth).
The current state of Israel is a terrible and atrocious imposter. (This is plain and clear). However with time it will convince more and more Children of Israel. I suspect that after she manages to expand her borders to the Biblical ones more and more will be convinced. (Some are already convinced – watch Louis Theroux http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12347050 – it seems that the Anti-Christ is succeeding with his deception).
M, I asked you previously to name ONE thing that your religion had contributed to mankind. Something that we could feel enriched by – and you couldn’t respond.
That you couldn’t didn’t surprise me in the least – BECAUSE YOU CAN’T.
What YOU and many like you get from your religion is the belief that you have the truth and the rest of mankind who don’t agree with your way of thinking deserve killing or otherwise silencing.
This is the psychology of a psychopath, which is why any wishing to leave your religion are threatened with death. CONTROLLING BY FEAR!
Your vision of heaven is ruling over other human beings – control. If you really had any vision you would know that this is in reality HELL. You believe you have the truth and there is nothing more to learn – how sad you are.
Lacking compassion, empathy, understanding you try to push your God on others. It will only ever appeal to psychopaths.
Even if your God were real – he/it would still be a piece of shit for what he tells you to believe and do.
There’s not a lot of difference between your kind and those inhabiting the BBC. Both are convinced their way is right and neither could care less on the real price for pursuing their paths.
You and the rest of your kind make me sick.
I chose not to respond to your question, not because I could not but because feelings are very subjective. What may enrich one may not necessarily enrich another. Besides what did your question mean? That if you could feel enriched by Islam it must true and if you could not that it must be false? A significant portion of Mankind did feel enriched and hence them converting to Islam in bygone days. Or do Africans, Indians, Indonesians, Central Asians etc not count as part of Mankind?Or did you mean only the European part of Mankind?
However one enriching contribution that the Quran has given to the world is giving the greatest emphasis on the concept of Unity, not merely as a concept among concepts (like in other religious books) but as an all pervading principle which governs all the basic domains of faith and reason. This concept of Unity is multi-dimensional and comprehensive which if followed through leads to a principle of Integralism. This integralistic approach of the Quran reconciles the elements of value in Rationalism & Empiricism, affirms the reality of both the rational and empirical, demands belief in the supra-sensible and the sensible and synthesizes the Ideational and the Sensate into a balanced and unified Integralistic culture.
If I did not believe that Islam is the Truth, what business would I have calling myself its follower? I just wish to share this with others, it is ultimately for them to decide to accept or to reject. What kind of Christian does not believe in the Truth of his religion?
Your vision regarding my vision of heaven is incorrect.
I appreciate your reply M and you pose some good points which I will address shortly.
I would first say it’s a pity you didn’t respond to my question when posed initially as that had something to do with the tone of the one above.
To clarify:
By ‘enriched’ I mean the way we develop as human beings. Increasing those qualities which enhance our fulfilment. An example would be that following the 10 commandments of the old testament, which are teachings aimed to promote better harmony amongst humans, we have Jesus adding further dynamics to think beyond eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth.
This I called enriching, regardless of whether one is a Jew or Christian. We can still be enriched by the philosophies contained in these and many other religions.
What I understand from what you wrote is that Islam gives a unity based on that if every person believes the same there will be harmony.
What is missing from your philosophy is the importance of freedom to human growth. Freedom to think, act, believe differently so long as one is not hurting another.
Please don’t take us for fools, we know enough about Islam to see the force which it uses to ‘bind’ its adherents together. It is this force which makes any message it might otherwise contain completely negative.
It is your right to follow its dictates and believe in what you will, if you think it really serves you. Most people find love as the ‘glue’ that keeps them in a certain belief system, and everything I’ve yet seen about Islam shows ‘love of dominance’ as the binding force.
As I’ve said before, only those with an inner insecurity or inferiority complex would gravitate to such a system, which qualifies my use of the term – psychopath.
Are you saying that virgins and serving boys are not part of your view of paradise? Do you deny this view is not given in the Koran, and therefore you are bound to believe in it? In which case I stand by my initial statement.
How is it you omit to mention the FORCIBLE CONVERSIONS to Islam that account for many of your flock?
The concept of Unity given in the Quran is comprehensive. It can further be divided into:
1. Unity of God
2. Unity of the Universe
3. Unity in relation to God and the Cosmos
4. Unity of the Natural and the Super-Natural
5. Unity of Knowledge – Unity of Faith and Reason
6. Unity of Truth
7. Unity of Religion
8. Unity of Love and Law
9. Unity of Mankind
10. Unity of Men and Women
11. Unity of the Human Personality
12. Unity in respect of Freedom and Determinism
13. Unity in Social Life
14. Unity in Politics
15. Unity of Church and State
16. Unity in Economics
17. Unity of Classes
18. Unity as the basis for Culture
Freedom is part of this concept of Unity and principle of Integralism. The Quran teaches that when God created Man, gave to him personality and freedom, although not absolute freedom, but nonetheless adequate to Man’s nature. It also teaches that God has made Man his vicegerent to function in harmony with God and as such God has not abandoned Man. Man is to use his freedom (within the limits set by God) to achieve his destiny.
You wrote, “Your vision of heaven is ruling over other human beings – control”. This is incorrect. Those wide-eyed maidens in Heaven will not be humans like you or I, neither will those “serving boys” be humans. (I do not like the term serving boys, “immortal youths” is better.)
The verses describing Heaven in the Quran are only allegorically describing the after life. If you read Asad’s commentary of the Quran, he says “The impossibility of man’s really “imagining” paradise has been summed up by the Prophet in the well-authenticated hadith; “God says: ‘I have readied for My righteous servants what no eye has ever seen, and no ear has ever heard, and no heart of man has ever conceived”‘
(Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of Abu Hurayrah; also Tirmidhi).”
The vast majority of the conversions were not forced, and those that were forced, were against the explicit teachings of the Quran. Indeed this myth of Islam being forced down upon others at the point of the sword is from the prejudiced viewpoint of the Gog & Magog Judeo-Christian World Order. As the British Orientalist De Lacy O’Leary said in “Islam at the Cross Roads, 1923”, “History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated”.
Since this page doesn’t offer a further reply to your last post at 3:47pm today, I have to do it here.
It’s a pity you take me/us for fools, as if we are not aware of what has been going on in the Islamic world for the last 15 years. You must think that we rely on the BBC to get our news about it. That taqqiya is an unknown concept to us.
According to you all the negative news reports concerning are really due to Gog and Magog…. 🙄 Yeah right!.
So you would prefer us to suspend belief on those who do follow and report events around the world, including here in the UK, and blindly accept your version of events.
NOT IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS!
All you’ve done is make sure we add you to the list of twisted liars who are doing their best to bring our values and society down to be replaced with yours.
I suppose those Muslims that you would concede have used force and terrorism are ‘misunderstanders of Islam’. Call them what you like. You have tried to use deception here, or you deceive yourself and can’t tell the difference, either way you are clearly seen for who you really are.
As for virgins and serving boys not being human, neither will you be once you die. So if they’re robots is that okay? Blow up doll?
Actually a blow up doll might be very apt for the jihadists among you – perfect. 😈
As you may gather, I resent you taking us for uninformed and unaware fools.
Do you really know what is/has been going on? It is not the last 15 years but more like the last 150 hundred years if not more!
Gog & Magog are involved in corrupting the world. This includes the Muslim world as well. Gog and Magog also have control over the world’s banking and financial system, most of the influential media corporations, publishing houses, and most Western governments! Of course this does not excuse those Muslims who have let themselves be corrupted and have been “turned”, so to speak, to the cause of the Anti-Christ (whether they know it or not). Whether they be individuals or organizations or states i.e Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc.
I am not deceiving you or anyone else here, just writing my opinions.
Once we die, we will STILL be human, just in a different form, but human nonetheless. (According to Islam that is.)
I do not take you as being uninformed, not at all…perhaps misinformed?
Gog & Magog are involved in corrupting the world.
Care to be more specific? Like just who this Gog and Magog are supposed to be, and why they should want to corrupt the world?
This is the 15 years I’m concerned with besides the stories we hear every day concerning actions by Muslims within our society who clearly have no concept of what our values and qualities are, except to try and take advantage of them.
You need to define human, and what you think will differentiate you when dead from your virgins and serving boys. Presumably humans shouldn’t have an open mind. They should just accept a book as the living truth.
🙄
What I see about you M is you have decided to embrace a particular belief system, and it gives you the feeling that you have the truth. You will explain all events going on in terms of that simplistic belief. I presume you feel you need that security. Possibly lacking self esteem you need to cling to the belief that you really know.
Or to put it another way:
When reality interferes in any way with your ‘philosophy’ you resort to simplistic and unverifiable accusations to give yourself the feeling that you really know
Yes, if by “age of faith” you mean “age of superstition” then the Islamic world is still locked in an age of superstition. There is a lot of waffle from BBC types about reinterpretation of “holy” texts. This will never happen in cultures that rely on revealed truth. For ancient peoples it was essential to perform rituals using the proscribed words and the proscribed actions. This is why the Koran is revered – it is the godhead itself talking to man. This is why divine injunctions must be taken literally. If a Vestal virgin lost her virginity she was buried alive in an unmarked grave. The modern mind might think that if a Vestal virgin was raped, she was entirely blameless and so should be spared death. However the ancient mind only considers the infringement of divine law relevant, whatever the circumstances she would be buried alive. The Muslim conception that a married woman who has been raped is guilty of adultery and so should be stoned to deatn arises from the same type of belief in a divine law. Writing downancient tribal practices, beliefs and knowledge and pretending they are ordained by a supreme being and so apply universally and eternally is of course a mill stone round the necks of future generations -believer’s eagerness to mutlate the genitals of their children, for example.
I cannot just now remember who discussed this but I do know many over the centuries have pointed to St John’s Gospel Chapter 8 -the woman taken in adultery- as one of the key moments in the history of Western culture when we were liberated from the old tablets of stone religion and the oppression of divine law.
Those few verses1-11 are in any event extraordinary and whether or not you regard Jesus as divine do not affect their power.
There is nothing remotely like them in the Quran or the Hadiths
I have often thought that whoever wrote them down was actually there and the impact on him must have been overwhelming. They have an immediacy that never fades. It is from things like this that our culture draws it’s power.
It is interesting that when liberals try to draw equivalence between Islam and the West they ignore the Gospels and concentrate on the Old Testament despite the fact that even degraded modern liberalism has it’s origins in the New Testament
I’m not at all religious, but there are some truly important lessons, such as this, in the bible. How can anybody argue with that lesson?
There is also a load of guff – e.g. mental illness caused by evil spirits and cured by ‘exorcism’
http://biblehub.com/niv/mark/5.htm
Luckily, we’re able to use our brains and weed out the nonsense from the profound teachings. I’ve had many a discussion with muslims and they appear to be incapable of hypothetical reasoning – e.g.
Me: ‘imagine for a moment that there is no god’
Them: ‘There is a god’
Me: ‘No. I appreciate that you believe in God, but just imagine for a second there isn’t a god’
Them: ‘There is a god’
grimer, if by saying ‘God doesn’t exist’ we disinvent or disappear God, how can he be God?
If you take the view there is no God, he does not therefore ask for your worship and to share his love with you in a loving & graceful & merciful relationship, then fine. The ‘texts’ 😉 old & new would appear to indicate that you are entirely free to remain in that state of belief and action for as long as you choose, even to your natural death.
I was researching some thing on internet.
‘ did Marx really say “the first battlefield is the rewriting of history”?’ was the question posed
I found this and thought of you instantly
http://www.reformationsa.org/index.php/history/147-the-crusades-and-jihad
Not only were the Crusades an entirely defensive war but they represented the moral high point of European aristocracy – the most powerful and wealthiest knights in Europe gave up every thing, power position and honour, to travel east to liberate the homeland of Christianity from the brutal yoke of moslem occupation. With no hope of return they looked for reward only in the next world
We should honour their memory
Is that not a bit like millionaire Osama Bin Laden giving up everything to wage Jihad in Afghanistan?
You’re framing this issue in terms of Christianity = good and Islam = bad.
Whereas, Medieval Christianity = oppression, intolerance, control, horrific treatment of anybody that dissents
Modern Islam = = oppression, intolerance, control, horrific treatment of anybody that dissents
Yes I am framing it those terms, because those terms are true and correct.
“Whereas, Medieval Christianity = oppression, intolerance, control, horrific treatment of anybody that dissents ”
No that’s the Marxist revisionist view (“the first battlefield is the rewriting of history”) A sorelian myth that emanates from the same intellectual milieu that promotes the myth of an ‘Islamic golden age’
The Medieval church has the same problem as the Victorians in that it is remembered for what it inherited not what it bequeathed
In the interests of full disclosure I am a Muslim.
Western Europe launched the Crusades for two reasons. Firstly to liberate the Holy Land (so that one day a state of Israel could be reborn), this only happened when Western Europe secularized herself to become the Modern West. I think the year was 1917. Secondly to back stab the Eastern Orthodox Christians, the Byzantines. Ultimately with out the Crusades the Ottoman Turks could never have conquered Constantinople. (The Orthodox Christian world has never forgotten this and she has not forgotten the duplicitous role of the Modern West in more recent times.)
Revisionism is not bad in itself. This is how we make progress and gain a more accurate understanding. By re-visiting the past with different perspectives, when new data comes to light or when emotional prejudices of old cool down. In Science it is very common for scientists to visit old theories and re-experiment on them, this is one of the ways they make progress and gain a more accurate understanding of the physical world.
M, “Firstly to liberate the Holy Land (so that one day a state of Israel could be reborn)”, if that was the motive, then they did a pretty bad job. They also were not paying much attention on the journey to the ‘Holy Land’ because they would have seen how Jews, both those practising their old faith, or others, as followers of Jesus, had been dispersed through all the countries they passed through en route and were not going back.
They did do a bad job of it but what they did not do a bad job of was back-stabbing the Byzantines and weakening them for the Ottomans. This plan to liberate the Holy Land for a state of Israel (designed by the Anti-Christ) only succeeded in 1917. Then from 1917-1948 the Zionist movement convinced many Israelites to move to the Holy Land (at least enough to establish a state), this continued on after the state of Israel was born. His plan to make Israel the ruling state in the world is on track, however there are a few hurdles to overcome ( & ISIS are helping him in his messianic mission).
To: DBMIVU,
You have and make a good point. The problem is that to comply with the need for speed in the modern media world, explaining the background to the Crusades or the Inquisition or any other major ‘deed’ in the history of the church {lower case deliberate} doesn’t fit with a 30 second soundbite in a 3 minute item, whether in News & CA, or as part of a longer documentary.
The same would be true of the complexities of Henry VIII, let alone the whole of the Reformation!
[Aaaugh! I clicked on Reply to DBMIVU. The wretched software has again dumped this post in the wrong place. Sorry!]
The evidence is there for all to see and has been for years, Islam and Western values are incompatible. The sooner the liberal elite grasp this , the sooner we can start to sort out what needs to be done. All this talk about what the BBC should or shouldn’t call this ‘army’ of Islamic murders is neither here nor there.
By actively bringing millions of Muslims into our country with no democratic mandate to do so , the liberal left have created a tinder box. They have refused to accept this despite the overwhelming evidence of the past 10 or 20 years. I now, at last, detect that some of them are beginning to wake up to awful situation that they have helped so much to create. Even the PC extremist BBC is beginning to allow cautious discussion of the true nature and depth of the problem we in the west have with Islam and are NOT framing such discussions as if the problems were all of our making. Of course we could find the PC reactionaries at the BBC reassert their , ‘ it is all our own fault mantra and Islam is ROP, and the moral equivalence clap trap’, we shall see.
It is probably far too late to find a solution that doesn’t cause massive disruption , violence and heartache to all concerned but at least the process of accepting that there is a problem between Islam and Western values has started, even if only tentatively. It isn’t going to be very useful to hammer the left for its stupidity in creating the problem in the first place but it is hard not to do so, after all plenty of brave people have been warning them for years but have been suppressed by the BBC et al.
But if the letfist elite at the BBC do allow discussion about the problems of Islam in the west to be openly debated, looking for scapegoats amongst them won’t be helpful.
Al Beeb reporting ‘migrants try to storm Channel Tunnel’.
Anyone get the idea that the French, and indeed the British governments are not taking border control seriously? The whole thing is farcical, the ‘illegals’ are trying to break in to our country. They are bringing our trade to a standstill.
No one knows how many terrorists, murders, criminals and rapists are among them.
This would not have happened before we joined the EU. What is our PM doing about this – its getting worse since he was re-elected. Immigration/migration figures are up.
This goverrnment does not really care. It could be dealt with easily by placing armed soldiers on the tunnel and terminals. That this is not done speaks volumes.
Just try to storm the Chinese or Japanese or Russian border and see what happens to you.
What about “The Real Islam State”? After all that’s the attraction, isn’t it?
The Holy Land was liberated so that one day the State of Israel could be created? Really? What a wonderful example of how religion corrodes the brain.
To Teddy Bear
July 11, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Gog and Magog are human beings, they are from the Children of Adam. They are two peoples – Gog and Magog (or Yajooj and Majooj in the Quran). The Lord God has endowed these two peoples with awesome power and they are using their power to help the Anti-Christ in achieving his mission to make Israel the ruling state in the world. Read “An Islamic View of Gog and Magog in the Modern Age” by Imran Hosein at http://www.imranhosein.org/books/131-an-islamic-view-of-gog-and-magog-in-the-modern-age.html. Also watch Imran Hosein’s lectures on this subject at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=889glXNbUYE
I am not alone in not accepting the official theory regarding the 9/11 attacks. Where two commercial airliners flew into two skyscrapers and three skyscrapers came down in New York. The question one should ask is who benefits from that attack and the subsequent “War on Terror”? My answer is those who wish to make Israel the ruling state in the world and a part of the strategy is to use and foment conditions in where destabilization occurs and terrorism is used in this destabilization and fomentation of the “Clash of Civilizations”.
Humans beings have a soul in which the Lord God has breathed into.
One does not have to accept a book as the Truth, but one, if convinced by that book, is free to accept that book as the living truth. Rather that book encourages people to think, reflect and think things through.
Islamic eschatology is, so far to my knowledge, explaining reality better than any other “philosophy” including secular philosophies. It is explaining why the Holy Land was liberated in 1917. Why the State of Israel was created in 1948. Why Britain became the ruling state and helped with the Balfour declaration? It explains European colonialism, it explains why a rising Orthodox Christian Russia is being being viciously targeted upon by NATO.
Nurse, nurse quick he’s escaped again.
So Gog and Magog are human beings which, therefore according to you, have souls which the Lord God has breathed in to.
So why then do they want to help the anti-Christ and make Israel the ruling state in the world?
Are they following God’s plan or are they against it, and if the latter, how did this come about?
So the virgins and serving boys look like humans but don’t have souls, just big tits?
So blow up dolls would suffice?
So according to your belief system, the fact that after half the number of Jews in the world were wiped out was not sufficient reason to grant the remaining number their own land, it has to do with some conspiracy theory. And the land that was given to them is approximately the size of Wales, and two thirds of that is extreme desert, but that was deemed fitting to rule the world from?
But this makes sense to you, and explains reality??? ❓
The Chinese must be shaking in their traditional clogs.
I notice you didn’t mention the 26,370 deadly Islamic attacks that have happened since 9/11, which was more to the point of why I posted it. Care to tell us whether the videos recorded of Islamic terrorists beheading and torturing their victims shows a soul behind it?
Rather that book encourages people to think, reflect and think things through.
Is that why any who decide they don’t want to follow it any more and want to renounce it are threatened with death?
I would say:
Some people are souls – and some ass holes
Perhaps you should define soul, because I’m not detecting what you think it must mean from what you write.
You should read the book and watch the lectures given in the links above to understand more about Gog & Magog.
Now as for the Anti-Christ – according to Islamic eschatology, he does not have a choice. He is a being created by the Lord God and has been given the mission to impersonate the True Messiah.
The Life of the Hereafter will not be comparable to this Life. Like Asad has said in his commentary of the Quran that the verses describing the life after death are to be taken allegorically.
The Holy Land was given to the Children of Israel CONDITIONALLY. Once they broke many divine decrees, their tenancy was null and voided. It ceased to be their land many centuries ago!
Now as for Israel ruling the world. Let us look at it in another perspective. Before the Anti-Christ can claim to rule the world from Jerusalem, he first has to liberate the Holy Land (done in 1917), he has to get the Children of Israel to move there (done between 1917-1948 and afterwards), he has to make the state began powerful (arguably done that, Israel has a very powerful military and is a nuclear weapons state), he has to expand the borders to the Biblical ones (he is in the process of doing this right now with the ME wars and NATO interventions and support of “rebel groups”). When Pax Britannica gave way to Pax Americana, two world wars took place and a whole host of changes in the world’s political, social, economic systems took place. Now when Pax Judaica is to take over from Pax Americana, I suspect world war III has to take place and after this war the world will be a lot smaller (and easier to rule). You can see the beginnings already in the confrontation between NATO and Russia.
Muslims have been involved in many terror attacks, of this no doubt, but why has NATO and allies been helping many of these (pseudo)Islamic groups? With military aid and finance and even humanitarian aid. The “War on Terror” is a Modern Western creation designed to ultimately create situations which allow for the dialectical “Clash of Civilizations” to take place and achieve the goal – of a man ruling the world from Jerusalem and claiming to be the Messiah.
I cannot define the soul – I do not think that anyone can define it. It is something supra-rational or supra-scientific.
Now as for the Anti-Christ – according to Islamic eschatology, he does not have a choice. He is a being created by the Lord God and has been given the mission to impersonate the True Messiah.
That’s a pretty devious God you’ve got there. And the purpose of that is what exactly? Have you ever thought about the nature of this God that creates beings with supposed free choices based on the intelligence and qualities given them, including this ‘soul’ that you can’t define and don’t think anyone else can, and you would presumably say that unless these beings don’t behave exactly as this deity wants them to he brings about the worst punishment on them.
Have you ever thought about that?
And this is a deity that you think is worthy of worship?
As for the simplistic way you describe world events and atrocities, past and present, to fit into your tiny bubble to make yourself feel wise and knowledgeable, unaware that many of these events are caused by others with a similar bubble trying to prove it right, instead of seeking harmony.
According to you there is NOTHING TO LEARN AND DEVELOP FROM LIFE – you have to follow something that was written 1400 years ago. It cannot be improved upon, and this is the life you worship.
It’s good that you admit to not knowing how to define the soul, pity though that you also add that you don’t think that anybody else can, but I understand your psyche enough to know why you do. My advice would be not to think that you CANNOT define it, just that you haven’t yet -AND SEEK TO.
Look within – not in a book.
That’s why you have life.
The Anti-Christ is there to punish the Children of Israel and as a test for Mankind. Those whose hearts are not corrupted will be able to recognize him and his evil deeds, those whose hearts are corrupted will be easily deceived by him.
All I say is then, wait and watch what happens in the future.
May I ask can you define the soul?
In the disinterest of full trolling, have to say that struggles on the love speech front.
You really missed the main point of my question. It was for you to consider it in the theme in which I surrounded it.
As to defining the soul, it is better if I describe why you might find it difficult defining it yourself.
Like many, you want a simplistic view of life which enables you to explain the goings on, whilst feeling an elitist in the scheme of things. You will maintain this until such time as either life reveals that it is far more elaborate and complex than you have so far been able to comprehend, or it just ‘turns you off’.
So given your present ‘philosophy’, you are unable to identify with the real problems that exist in the world, and empathise with those struggling to survive in the face of many of them.
This is partly what stops you from seeing soul. Until such time as you can let go of your existing security blanket, and not use a belief system to understand a LIVING WORLD, it will elude you.
What do you as a living being actually know of life if you dismiss everything and anything you’ve been told or instructed to believe?
You don’t have to reply to me on this – just to yourself.
If you were a Christian you would have to believe that Muhammed was the anti-Christ sent to divide and rule….let’s face it the Koran has little real connection with Christianity and the Bible other than plagiarising a few stories..done so in order to give Muhammed some credibility and authority…not just a new religion but one with the inherited authority of the Jewish and Christian texts…..honest.
As for the war on terror being invented….are you claiming it was the Jews who did 9/11? You’re a Truther? MI5 blew up the trains on 7/7 yes?
Elvis is serving up cod and chips down the chippy on your high street?
You’ll be telling me you’re a Muslim next!
I have corresponded with Christians on eschatology. I have not yet been able to find what is the Christian description of the Anti-Christ. From the Islamic eschatologic perspective, the Anti-Christ has to impersonate the True Messiah and no Israelite is going to accept a non Israelite to be the Messiah so therefore when the Anti-Christ appears in the form of a man, he will be from the Children of Israel.
Of course there are differences between Christianity and Islam but also great similarities. One of these great similarities is that both believe that the Son of Mary will return to rule from Jerusalem. Islam is not a new religion, but in fact the oldest. Adam (PBUH) the first man did “Islam”. With Abraham (PBUH) came the public model of the religion of Islam and it was finally completed with the Last prophet (PBUH). The Quran came to correct the corruptions that had been put into the previous scriptures.
Regarding 9/11 and the subsequent “war on terror” – just look at the event and the aftermath. Ask yourself cui bono?
Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sARSBdEDwnk