So, we have a Labour Leader who won’t condemn the IRA and a Labour Shadow Chancellor who has fantasised about assassinating Margaret Thatcher. What a crew. Anyway, time to start the week with a new Open Thread. The floor is yours, comrades.
START THE WEEK OPEN THREAD
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*Number of countries that are signatories to UNHRC convention on refugees and asylum seekers
** BBC report says each refugee costs £50,000 per annum the UK
***Pew Poll of 2015 showed 63% of Muslims want to live under sharia law
****Jews who fled Muslim antisemitism in Algeria and Morocco for France have now been forced to flee France mainly because of Muslims immigrants (especially from Algeria and Morocco). Almost all the current surge of antisemitism throughout European is due to Muslim immigrants.
*****The wealthy Arab Sunni Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and UAE have been the principle funders of the various wars yet have taken 0 Sunni refugees. And of course Shia Muslim Iran has played the biggest external role in all of the wars and has taken 0 Shia refugees. Meanwhile one minority who deserves refugee status – the Kurds – are being stopped by Turkey from getting a safe haven in their own lands. The other minorities like the Christians and Yazidis (who make up a very small minority) are of course not covered by the above and should be taken in by Christian countries.
Also note that for Syrian refugees Israel remains enemy #1.
In light of the coverage of the present “migrant’ invasion of Europe, via Hungary, by Al Beebus and the rest of the MSM, a thought occurred to me – since when did it become generally acceptable by the media, for huge numbers of people to cross (or even attempt to cross) an international border (unchallenged) and enter another country: without that country’s permission; without possessing a passport or even rudimentary identification documents; to seek to wilfully evade the state representatives of that country in the lawful execution of the national laws of the place and the law of the EU – of which the country is a member state?
Why is it also, suddenly, utterly beyond the pale for a country to enforce its own borders; and to seek to control: who enters; where they enter and how many enter? When did all these simple actions, suddenly become extremist positions for a national government to take?
Good points, Al Shubtill. What seems to have happened is that legal niceties have been trumped by the single word, ‘refugee’.
It seems that this simple word replaces the need for a passport, visa, letter of introduction, work permit or identity papers. Now, I don’t necessarily have a problem with that – I do believe such things as genuine refugees exist.
What is frightening, however, is the way any discussion of who actually qualifies as a refugee seems to be being consciously avoided by much of the media, particularly the BBC.
The statement ‘they are refugees fleeing persecution’ is used not just as a universal passport, but also a means to shut down any argument that questions unlimited immigration. And even that is starting to change – we are now also hearing of people simply ‘fleeing poverty’.
I do tend to over-dramatise things sometimes, but it seems to me that this is more than just a ‘refugee crisis.’ It’s a very serious battle of sentiment versus rationality in public policy and the media, with some very shadowy people taking advantage of the situation to further their own marxist, muslim and other agendas, with economic migrants in the main being the hapless pawns in a potentially very nasty geopolitical confrontation.
I’d go further. It’s a very serious battle of ‘Political’ sentiment versus rationality.
‘It’s a very serious battle of sentiment versus rationality in public policy and the media’
Its far more complex than that, this is orchestrated, by whom or why is open to speculation, the media is just a useful idiot bit part player.
When did all these simple actions, suddenly become extremist positions for a national government to take?
That’s easy. It happens when a country joins the EU and becomes subject to the Treaty of Lisbon, at which point it ceases to be a national government in any meaningful sense. It’s all explained in the small print and no – you can’t cancel the contract or get your money back.
Brave fookers eh? Not heroic enough to stay and fight for their country, but also happy to use their children as shields.
That baby in the photo posted by Geoff (thanks) is suffering abuse at the hands of it’s parents. As simple as that.
If a UKIP member had employed the same tactic with a baby when confronted with opposition, you can imagine the Media response. Demands to arrest the parent, condemnation of UKIP and so on.
The parents of the baby in the photo are not in danger. They are fed, watered and protected. It’s a cynical abuse of a baby for sympathy by those seeking an even better life. And a successful attempt to gain publicity.
These immigrants know exactly how to press the sympathy buttons courtesy of the BBC and other news organisations. They have full access to social media etc. and are guided in their actions. These are not the ‘huddled masses’ of yore.
..
AlBeeb were quick to broadcast the photograph of the dead boy being carried off the shore as part of their propaganda – will they be as quick to broadcast the above photograph?
Appalling picture-be very surprised if the BBC/Guardian oafs will use it.
Very Michael Jackson-and that didn`t turn out too well did it?
That said, the liberal media-Sky/Channel 4 and the BBC and the kitty litter equivalents in the broadsheets-seem to be utterly demented at the minute.
Corbyn…migration…talking heads that approve of both Corbyn and migration-a plug for the EU/UN..then repeat same cycle of crap as it evolves…or spirals into a corkscrew up their arses.
Then here we go again…never seen them as loopy and deluded…mad cow watching a few of their 99 balloons floating by with their cheques and Tuscany villas flying off very soon.
Nuts!
That image is for real?
And I thought I had seen it all.
What are the BBC reporters, editors and anchors on that they can’t grasp this is not a rational entity at the gates.
Indeed. I think we are seeing a coming together of a lot of very unpleasant things that have been floating around for some time now, eg:
1. A boiling point of social-media hysteria, making rational debate very difficult. Mostly this is on the left, but there’s a fair bit of right-wing paranoia going on as well.
2. The first social-media/smartphone guided mass migration in history. In the same way that the 2011 riots were facilitated by communication technology, so has this mass movement been. It’s why comparisons with previous mass migrations by the media (kindertransport, 1956, etc) are totally spurious and a typical left-wing stuck in the past mindset.
3. A snowballing of pan-European cultural-marxism and cultural self-loathing, out of all control, refusing to countenance the serious social and economic problems it is risking. It may be a coincidence that just at this time, Labour elects an unreconstructed socialist throwback as its leader, but it’s a very odd coincidence. It’s part of the national mood, I suspect.
4. A serious disintegration of the EU; hot on the heels of the Greek crisis, we have the Germans issuing threats and orders, and the breakdown of concepts of protection of citizenship or entitlement within the states of the union, with vicious reactions to any state (ie, Hungary) willing to protect its own borders.
5. . Finally, a realisation by growing numbers of people of serious bias and hidden agendas in the mainstream media, particularly the BBC, with an inability or refusal to ask difficult questions about what is really going on in this crisis, instead relying on emotional hysteria and cliche.
Absolutely agreed – and on all your points.
It’s hard not think of ‘The centre cannot hold….’
Exactly right. For your point 5 to have an effect, people will need to overcome their fear that society will collapse without the mainstream broadcasting and print media being in their eyes and ears all the time. Society would continue quite happily without all that heavy, centralised, persuasion being practised on us. We really don’t need Big Brother any more.
Phew! That was a close thing. It looked like the BBC was going to be caught on the horns of a dilemma – Labour or EU? EU or Labour?. But Jezza has made then friends again Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has told the BBC that he will not campaign for Britain to leave the European Union.
Jezza has received instructions from his BBC-EU bosses, the same bosses that give orders to Cameron, May and the Quisling Government.
PM’s Questions from the public (sector)
What’s the modern Labour Party for? Evan, Kirsty and Johnny Marr will spending hours of Licence Payer’s time pondering the conumdrum that would baffle a Vorderman – but I’ll let you into the secret…. shhhhh it’s a Trades Union for the Public Sector
Questions from Tom, Dick, Janice…. tinker, tailor -we ain’t go no soldiers – Housing Association Worker…
The point was less than subtly driven home by BBC news this evening as Corbyn’s first PMQs was followed by a report showing average pay going up – but moaning about Public Sector pay not keeping pace. Did you see what the BBC did there?
Of course the Labour Party Trades Union for the Public Sector works best when Labour are in power – expanding public spending building empires, social engineering, 5 a day, cradle to grave, trans sex education, everyone to uni, raising school leaving age to 35 etc – so watch this space… four-and-a half-years is a long time for the joke to wear thin and not to have access to the public purse
Bloody hell-just got in from the pub, put on THe World Tonight-and its STILL bitching on about Hungary!
The usual foreign talking heads from the UN/EU-and as many other funded “universities”, ” charities” say the same thing…FFS Hungary, let them all in and sod Schengen or Dublin.
Look-we need a new electorate…and, unsurprisingly Ritalin Shah(clue`s in the name) only hopes that we can get one if the hordes of angry blokes can be let to run amok across the plains of Hungary.
Thence to Germany and the UK.
How our Hungarian reps manage to keep their tempers is beyond me…the Mark Regev Forbearance Award.
Shah`s a complete Islamic suckup-accusing Hungary of being “legalistic”.
Reminds me of Matt Frei earlier on-who said the “world was impressed and we were all proud at Germanys capitulations”…but by erecting a border check now threatens to “undermine the moral foundations of Europe”.
This is MATT FREI-ex Beeboid….what the fuck would HE know about “the world” and “moral underpinnings”?…and how dare he presume to use language like that when he`s a thick clot of scum himself in all he says and do…he`s Michael Crick without the combover.
Say cheese
Evan Davis “Hungary giving lessons in how not to deal with migrants”
So, there’s his opinion then. Can we have any alternative opinions BBC? Thought not.
By the way, did you catch the footage where it was kicking off which caught the bloke in the UN pale blue bib…. and camera? Vital bit of refugee aid equipment that. Forget the tents and bottled water…. smile please…. or the grimace might make a more appealing picture for the folks.
chrisH, spot on ! Bet you wished you had stayed in the pub !
Hilarious bit on Newsnight analysing today’s PMQs. Far from Corbyn’s performance being the lamentable drone that most folk seem to have seen, the panel (of Labour supporters) overwhelmingly thought it went well. Up is down, black is white, wrong is right etc.
I have spent the last week scrupulously avoiding all BBC output and felt a lot happier for it but at least Ian Katz and the Newsnight team sent me to bed with a smile on my face. Thanks so much!
Evan Davis (for it is he) has just informed the nation, via Newsnight, that ‘Hungary has just given the world a lesson in how not to handle a refugee crisis’. I kid you not.
Your license fee at work, folks.
Davis perhaps believes a lesson in how to handle a refugee crisis can be given by Mrs Merkel who flouted EU Law, upset many of Germany’s neighbours and has now precipitated the scenes we now see in Hungary (soon to be coming to other EU countries now the Hungarians have decided to establish some sort of control over the situation).
Truly unbelievable.
”Mrs Merkel who flouted EU Law, upset many of Germany’s neighbours.” And upset the German people.
Not sure, but when sneaking through enemy lines, shouting ‘Allahu Ackbar’ a wee bit too early may just blow the surprise element later on.
I personally think the Hungarians have been remarkably restrained in how they’ve dealt with these unwelcome (would be) visitors; I don’t think these people would have experienced similar treatment if they had breached in such a fashion, or attempted to breach, the borders of: Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Columbia, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Iran; or many countries throughout the world where the border of a nation state really does mean something and is defended as such.
“A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation.” Ronald Reagan.
Sheer ignorance and an insult to Hungary. Not that Davis has a clue about Hungary or European history. I said days ago that it is Hungary where the EU either holds to it’s unreal dreams or breaks. The east of Europe is different thank God and if things here go the way I expect many of us will be heading there as refugees .
This is a real crisis and the EU is unable to cope. The nation states of the eastern part of Europe must do what is necessary to preserve our culture and theirs. Western Europe , including this sad land, is beyond help now.
You will hear words to the contrary but this is how it really is . The cultural marxists have all but destroyed us.
This is escalated in time .I thought we had still a few years but this is not to be.
The EU and it’s useless military wing Nato will not defend European culture or themselves now. They would rather go down to destruction than be thought of as making value judgements concerning cultures and peoples. Evan Davis and Frei are but typical examples of these useless emotion driven drones.
I think the global Left have been forced into action because they know they are in increasing danger of being rumbled and deserted by the general populace. I get the impression they are thinking rather desperately ‘It’s now or never’. If they can’t succeed right now, they never will. The iron grip on the media is a grip of desperation, too. There is every point in resisting simply by loudly continuing to disbelieve because, like the Soviets before them, they are, in the end, all piss and wind. Dangerous piss and wind, though.
Also, does AlBeeb know that their ‘end is nigh’ and are making a last ditch attempt at trying to scupper the Tory government’s latest decisions – Their ‘swansong’ ?
The BBCs reporting has been very one sided, they seem to love mass immigration.
I think Hungary are doing a good job, but are demonised by the BBC, their reporting is unrepresentative of public opinion.
Lord Carlisle did a grand job of putting Joanna Gosling in her place last week, when being interviews for the ~Victoria Derbyshire programme. He pointed out the biase in the BBC
I wish the Hungarian police were over here ! at least they have some teeth and clearly no-one will mess with them. Can you imagine our boys in blue dealing with that scenario on the Hungarian border here ? there’d be lots of pushing and shoving and helmets being knocked off, – and then if a rock throwing thug got knocked to the ground, it would be the hapless officer having a ‘thorough investigation’ threat hanging over him. No, those Hungarian guys may be gun wearing, but they mean business, and I for one would feel much safer with them around, than our ponytailed Community Officers who pitch up on months with a Y in it !
An important point if I may?
There are many Tory voters reading and commentating on this website including ‘Essexman’.
So, this question I ask and it is directed to them…
Given the Anti Tory Bias and evident bias on all matters political on AlBeeb – what is our Prime Minister, our Tory MPs, our Tory readers and contributors going to do about this?
We await your replies …
Taffman. I’m not a Tory voter but I did vote Tory here as we were mislead that it was neck and neck with Labour here. Repeating myself because I have quoted this event before. I wrote to our MP a while back not about anti conservative bias but general bias. His response was that he was only an MP and what did I expect him to do. My interpretation was and like the BBc this is pure speculation with no evidence, call it made up bollocks if you will was that he didn’t want to cross swords with the BBc. So I expect they in general will do bugger all until more of the population wake up to what the BBc is up to, although I suspect the last 2 weeks of reporting on illegal immigrants has probably brought many more into the fold.
Well said Dave666.
Lets hope that the rest of our Tory readers including Essexman adopt the same attitude as you before its too late.
BBC World Service 2am top headline given to Serbia criticisng Hungary. Inadvertently there was no mention of the silent majority across Europe applauding the Hungarians’ robust defence of their national border against mob violence.
Just heard Lyse Doucet meeting various people at the Hungarian border. She seemed to be pointing them towards the unfenced border with Croatia – and wishing them well.
Great. We are forced to pay for a BBC staffer – a French Canadian – to encourage people to crash their way into Europe.
Cause… effect…
Just there to report, eh?
I’ve been on an ex-services site on Facebook where someone asked the question do you support Hungarys actions. In not very much time it was up to around 300 with no one criticising. Also and I don’t know how true it is I don’t know I’m somewhat sceptical, supposedly there was an Army wise anti-terror exercise in Germany in the last few days with troops according to this being told to be aware of their personnel safety.
I think the immigrants are beginning to overplay their hand with photos of the their abuse of babies and children, in order to manipulate the BBC and other media. They remember how influential the images of the drowned child were. Expect more.
These immigrant tactics are similar to Hamas exposing women and children intentionally to both Palestinian and Israeli rockets in order to gain BBC sympathy. And remember Sadam Hussein in 1990 doing something similar with British children as human shields?
And the media are lapping it up.
Sky just tweeted a 50yo man with a head wound carrying a crying child, with nothing else in the picture but uniformed police. The comments on what folk can see with their own lying eyes elsewhere suggest such propaganda is not going down well.
I also saw a Daily Express post about support for the EU plummeting too.
Perhaps not the best time for the Green party to have bought a sponsored tweet to let Caroline Lucas sing the praises of the EU!
The establishment seems to have failed to grasp that while social media is a great propaganda tool, it is not so effective with people whose exposure to information is outside their inbred bubble world.
Classic FM and its risible Global News just went off too.
According to them there is ‘international condemnation’ of Hungary for using tear gas on children.
Not from the public if Mrs. Who is a guide. She just asked me what kind of parent brings an infant to the heart of a riot.
The kind that has BBC & Sky producers on speed dial.
Was this what I just heard on the end of a report as I turned the TV on. BBc breakfast. “some of the migrants chose to fight back”. No not against ISIS, those that are actually from Syria, no it’s throwing rocks at Hungarians. BBc still trying to put a sob sob spin on the illegals. Then off to America for a negative trump reporter. Then over to Sally, has she had her hair done again, talking to the reporter in Hungary who talks about the “asylum seekers”. More one sided bullshit from the sofa sloths.
The BBC and when the reporting of violence kicks in, especially first blows and return fire, can vary. For instance, the Israeli border, as Hamas decides to test more homemade rockets in the general direction of schools.
After local news sofa sloths tell us Hungary has been criticised for using tear gas blah blah blah. What else are they supposed to do sloths? Run video of child suffering from tear gas that won’t be winning any acting awards soon. Again one side of the story only.
Ah. yes – these would be the ‘water bottles’ that perform some feat of transubstantiation mid-flight and only later turn into rocks.
That’s if you believe a word Lyse Doucet says.
http://lettersfromwalesuncut.com/2015/09/16/house-of-lords-communication-committee-investigation-into-bbc-charter-renewal/
There’s interesting, isn’t it?
AlBeeb Wales this AM. Wall to wall pro immigration propaganda.
They interview an illegal immigrant from Syria who fled the war in that country . Usual story ; A ‘student’ fleeing war etc etc , not coming here for free money etc etc – No one has pulled him up and asked him why he travelled through, Turkey, Greece and most of Europe to effect an illegal entry into the UK in a lorry. Or that that he passed through many countries which he could have claimed asylum.
AlBeeb then wheel on a spokeswoman from the Welsh Refuge Council – demanding the Welsh Assembly take in so called refuges and provide them with adequate housing etc and to ensure that they do not live in poverty.
The media and the pressure groups that ‘shout the loudest’ in this country have greatest influence on our politicians. While the ordinary working people are barely heeded and are expected to endure a time of so called ‘Austerity’ . A term used by all the political parties.
BBC -Hrd the UN “uman” rights council, is condemning Hungary again, over illegal immi, er migrants, er refugees, er those fleeing ersecution.
Yep! the joke cartel, that continually berate Israel, because of the 57 Islamic voting block … not asking why the (vast majority young healthy men) choice of holding babies in front of them to prevent police action as they
riot and cause trouble
Why aren t these fury fighters taking on ISIS?.
Very similar to Pallywood, actions of Palestinians
Actually talking of the UN where is the Security Council? the border force? over these non EU borders?
Hmmm UN 57 Islamic voting block, … Islam is to always expand/everywhere else s expense?
Hijrah, or jihad by emigration, is Islamic tradition, (the migration or journey of Muhammad and his followers from Mecca to Medina – 622 CE)… anyone?
Police Fire Tear Gas At Rioting Migrants Chanting ‘Allah Hu Akbar’ Trying to Break Through Hungarian Border
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/16/state-of-emergency-hungarian-police-fire-tear-gas-at-rioting-migrants-trying-to-break-through-border/
It is interesting to try to discern the narrative the BBC and its little brother Channel 4 are using to criticise Hungary.
We are told the border fence goes against the spirit of Schengen and the principle of open borders in Europe
– but were the open borders not intendend for Europeans? Who said open borders were for Africans, Asians and Middle Easterners?
We are then told the restrictions imposed by Hungary threaten Europe’s good reputation for human rights.
– and what exactly has that reputation ever done for us? Soft touch, more like.
AsISeeIt, good point. There seems to be a misconception going round that ‘A Europe without borders’ means a Europe without external, as well as internal borders. This has never been the case, nor I believe has it ever been the intention of even the most insane EU-phile. But suddenly, anyone (ie, Hungary) who dares to enforce any kind of external border control is an out and out villain! You would think that this should be a prime subject for debate on the BBC etc, but no!
I am beginning to think more and more that there is organised, wilful manipulation of the debate going on in the mainstream media. Just how long they can keep up this deception will be interesting.
24 comments on this Sky News Online article re Hungary. (HYS)
ALL very, very much in favour of blocking migrants. (Sky are more ‘open’ to comments than the BBC HYS).
http://news.sky.com/story/1554031/hungary-accused-of-bully-boy-tactics
This gives a small indication of public feeling.
Here’s one of the comments:-
ReggieBoy67
45 minutes ago
As refugees they should have stayed in the UN camps, then they would have a better chance of being resettled in another country.
Just rail roading your way across a country because you think you have some ‘right’ to go where you please is wrong and unacceptable.
Hungary is not to blame for this chaos – Merkel & Juncker are
..
Never expect a balanced debate from the BBC
Victoria Derbyshire presents us with 5 reasons why we should care about the US elections “We always get complaints about covering this, not many” Vicky almost let slip the BBC may not always get it just about right in the eyes of viewers – hence her quick qualification there.
Number one is the US is still a superpower (have to admire that ‘still’)
2 – Entertainment!
3 – Celebrity!
4 – First woman President – eva!
5 – Have to admit I lost interest after it was clear the Beeb were backing Hilary as their story line
“Obviously Donald Trump has insulted a lot of people… ” Derbyshire checks herself for a moment but her two guests – a Democrat woman and an anti-Trump Republican woman nod their conscent and approval and so the BBC woman goes on “Yes, Obviously, he has insulted… women, Mexicans….”
I know the VD show is not meant for me but occasionally one looks to see where the Licence fee is going
The Hungarian Embassy in London has published a pamphlet about its position on migrants, here:
http://london.gov.hu/hungary-s-situation-in-the-context-of-modern-day-mass-migration
There some quite interesting points therein. This one caught my eye:
‘Prime Minister Viktor Orbán takes the view that in 90 per cent of European Union Member States, there is a gap between the views of the public and the policy of the elite; this is a grave problem in a democracy. In a democratic system, we cannot live with this internal contradiction for long.’
Take note, BBC!
Some of the ‘HYS’ replies on this terror warning on BBC News are relevant and are worth a read……………………
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34276525