Well, the BBC is hyping up Cameron’s play-acting in Brussels, giving us the predictable soap opera spin on whether Call me Dave can pull off a one minute to midnight victory for Blighty! As if. Anyway, there’s going to vast coverage in the next 48 hours so detail the bias HERE!
WEEKEND OPEN THREAD.
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If Camerloon doesn’t get the little he claims he wants then the BBC will not find it as easy to portray this as a flexible EU we should remain part of, in fact it will be very difficult for the remain campaign to make a case at all. There is no doubt that Cameron will come away with something he is going to describe as a victory, even if they’ve given him next to nothing which appears likely.
Watch this space for the spin !
Problem is that with no agreement there’ll be no referendum
Isn’t it is enshrined in law – the EU Referendum Act 2015 ?
Somebody over at EUReferendum.com highlighted this BBC broadcast. Owen Patterson joins the discussion at about 20 minutes and provides a superb insight. The BBC presenter subsequently ignores him!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b070hv9r
Thanks, I’ve just listened to it, and very good it is too.
Out, brothers, out! and the sooner, the better.
We must challenge the BBC’s use of the propaganda word referring to a ‘reformed’ EU. It has not been reformed. It is barely any different, there are no treaty changes, Cameron’s items are not binding. And many of the claims about what have been achieved are not new, exemption from bailouts for example – we are meant to have that already but that has been a sham.
Even if DC got absolutely everything he asked for (and of course he didn’t), the very fact that he has to go to the EU in the first place and ask, ‘Is it okay if we do this with our taxpayers’ money?’ is a pretty good reason for voting OUT. Why don’t politicians understand this? In fact, if this is the way it is to be, what is the point of ANY EU country holding elections when the decisions affecting their lives will be made by people they didn’t vote for in Brussels?
WhadIwannaknow is this: Can Cameron again break his promise to hold the referendum? If he feels the public will vote to leave the EU, will he stall and bluff and bluster until he can come up with an excuse not to hold it?
Watching the farrago that is the “EU debates”.
Note how much it`s all about the hacks…with the sound down, it was as if Matt Frei wants his own show on Channel 4…and he probably thinks we`d like him to get one too.
A fat failure in every sense.
File under Garry Richardson, Michael Crick, Mark Mardell, John Simpson…a load of fat failures who think that sniffing next to the stage is as good as being the elected lead actors.
Arrogant nobodies-like Snow.
First the farrago of media houris-but next the Farage!
Thoughtful you stated
‘ in fact it will be very difficult for the remain campaign to make a case at all.’
I agree, you are completely right, I don’t think there is an argument for staying in prior to Camerloon’s visit to Brussels.
The point above all others -in my book is, one sshould never,ever give away one’s sovereignty, under no circumstances should this ever be contemplated.
How on earth have we as a people considered this to be a good thing. I’m getting old now, but my generation would never have agreed to such a disgraceful act of treachery. You would have been openly called in the street, a traitor to your country.
I just do not understand the mentality of the young 18-24 in this country who overwhelmingly say that it is ok to give up our sovereignty. Further I would be thoroughly ashamed of my children if they thought the same and I would do my damndest every night and day, to persuade to support our country in its time of need. Fortunately with my children I don’t have this problem. But for those of whom you do, and do not show parental guidance, may be you need to wake up to the fact that your children are throwing away a country your very deceased relatives fought and in many cases died for.
More people need to strat calling the Pro remain traitors to their country, and I’m starting with the King of traitors
CAMERON
More people need to start calling the Pro remain traitors to their country, and I’m starting with the King of traitors
CAMERON
I think I’d prefer to start with Heath whose lies took us in in the first place.
As a trade association the EU could have been so good with rules preventing state subsidies of business and creating a level playing field with laws and regulations for all members.
It stopped the last Labour government subsidising industries which should have died long ago, like the BBC it tried to do too much, and it developed a socialist agenda.
John Major signed the Maastricht treaty, and while there were calls at the time for a referendum, my feeling was that we elect politicians to analyse and assess treaty legislation that no one person could hope to do, and yet still to this day the BBC have failed to educate and inform as to what was in the treaty, and feel sure if people in the street are asked what was in the treaty no one would be able to tell you.
It was the same with the Balkan war, no one appears to know the causes of it, because the BBC has never ever made clear to the masses what it was.
I believe that the BBC fails now on every single one of the three cardinal points, and in truth it could be argued that it does the opposite !
Disinforms
Dumbs down & promotes ignorance
Bores instead of entertains
When I was 18 I would have thought it unthinkable that anyone in the West would want to give up freedom of speech or democracy.
Now our youth are determined to create a ‘safe space’ where nothing and nobody can challenge the ideas of their Marxist masters and the ‘rights’ of minorities supersede those of the majority. A thousand years of progress destroyed by the ‘progressives’ in such a short time.
Isn’t it time we started referring to the “progressives” as regressives?
I prefer the term “Globalists”, they want global governance, hate nation states, their loyalties are Global not national, they support global business and free markets in people as well as goods, consider the world is a ‘global village’, love global travel (despite its un ‘Green’ consequences), want English to be the global language (they’ve almost achieved that) and think the global grass over the sea is always greener.
Globalist is the perfect description, and they hate it! Tee hee!
HI JimS
Too much work for them.
A few are harried and overworked…a few are persecuted or might lose their jobs if they dared to mention the liberal tsunami that`ll wipe us all out if we let it.
But most take that broad road to hell, potholed and flooding because it`s just too much work to clear, or to even check once in a while.
“Let someone else do it!”.
Let the cars drive over it all, use the hard shoulder you guys-and sack those who knew the drains, the weak spots.
Knowledge a danger to the jazz hands sports casual wankers who think Brent and Partridge, Ali G are “positive, life-affirming and appropriate role models”-their words, not mine.
And if the quangos and Strasbourg, Lord Do-Gooder and Moatys mates , Duggans new diggers run the whole shebang do your thinking for you-well, feet up and enjoy the ride.
When you let the State do all your thinking for you because you`ve got no balls, no brain worth washing any more…well you end up in Britain in winter 2016.
My kids don’t – they just don’t have a voice.
When the “T”s have been crossed and the “I”s have been dotted Cameron will have achieved absolutely zilch, other than a whole barrage of small print, and the overtly sickening and highly predictable weasel words of deception…The BBC will happily swallow it all though, because their coffers will diminish without their constant supply of E.U, backhanders to strengthen their unquestionable “impartiality”….(LOL)
How painful it must be for the BBC though to have to portray Cameron as a ‘tough’ negotiator, who has successfully ‘fought Britain’s corner’!
Corbyn could appear a mere EU patsy besides.
If I could draw a cartoon, I`d put Dave in a big shed outside with industrial scale woodsaws out side etc-loads of noise , hammers and sweated brow.
Then a couple of captions later, as the work went on-and more people piled around to question whether it would be Noahs Ark…a wooden watchtower…a massive table or the mother of all fences?…out he would come.
With a balsa wood miniature disability scooter or reliant robin carved- with a single match laboriously glued on and him stuck to it…but proud as punch.
“I asked him for some happy news”
“But he just smiled and walked away”
( Truly the day the music died…”Nearer mein Fuhrer to thee” in 25 languages…but esperanto prominent among them).
PS-noted that the Eurovision voting is to change-so “nul points” isn`t an option…is it any coincidence that this was revealed on Thursday?…and maybe THIS will be used by the IN campaign to show how powerful Camerons voice is, in Europe)
Thoughtful you stated
‘ in fact it will be very difficult for the remain campaign to make a case at all.’
I agree, you are completely right, I didn’t think there is an argument for staying in prior to Camerloon’s visit to Brussels.
The point above all others -in my book is, one should never,ever even consider giving away one’s sovereignty, under no circumstances should this ever be contemplated.
How on earth have we as a people, believed in this to be a good thing. I’m getting old now, but my generation would never have agreed to such a disgraceful act of treachery. You would have been openly called in the street, a traitor to your country.
I just do not understand the mentality of the young 18-24’s in this country who overwhelmingly say that it is ok to give up our sovereignty.
Further I would be thoroughly ashamed of my children if they thought the same and I would do my damndest every night and day, to persuade to support our country in its time of need. Fortunately with my children I don’t have this problem. But for those of whom you do, and do not show parental guidance, may be you need to wake up to the fact that your children are throwing away a country your very own deceased relatives fought and in many cases died for. What a slap in face to your mother and father. How they would weep at our demise as a once proud country.
The people can fight back, the ballot box is the way to say to the rich,the politicians, the bureaucrats, the multinationals, the corrupt, that some of us love our country and there we shall not surrender it and vote to leave and retain our identity and heritage.
More people need to start calling the Pro remain what they are, traitors to their country, and I’m starting with the King of traitors
CAMERON
Just more evidence of the people of this country enriching themselves in the past when it didn’t matter so much if it was on the record. Brigadier Sir James Timothy Whittington Landon who was one of the wealthiest men in Britain at the time of his death, but just wait until you read how he acquired that wealth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Landon
Well done Brigadier , don`t say none of us would of done the same if we had had the opportunity..
You say that of Tony Blair and his hundred + million and still growing from the same sources?
We have Saudi Arabia spreading Wahabism, and violent Jihad throughout the world, and you think it’s what anyone would do given the opportunity?
I know the pay of the Prime Minister is very low, but I think selling your country for 30 pieces of silver is something only a traitor would do.
Oh I don’t know Essex. If you’d seen the height of the wall around his little pad in Faccombe, and the level of security inside and out, you’d assume he didn’t enjoy a particularly relaxed retirement.
I think a thread about the tricks , subtle and not so subtle , that the BBC will use in the referendum campaign would be of help especially if it could be used by the press and sent round the social media .
That’s right Nibor,
I’ve started making a note on the invited panellists on bBBC Question Time. The bias for the’ remain’ is extraordinary. It’s a disgrace.
In the last month that I’ve taken note, it currently stands as
16 remain panellists
3 leave panellists
1 unsure
But if I am to judge from the last QT the audience were not buying into the IN lies about lost jobs etc, they were hostile – there is hope. The IN’s have pretty much lost the political and economic arguments and only have Project Fear.
They don’t need to use any tricks because an out vote will simply be ignored. The battle has already been lost, it was lost some years ago. Sorry to sound so negative, but that’s the reality. This sham of a referendum was nothing more than a political stunt by Cameron to win the election. He never intended to take any notice of the will of the country. All Cameron is interested in is an endless supply of cheap labour for big business, the ones pulling his strings are not going to jeopardise that by letting the people have their say!
It’s hard to say it, I hate to say it – but you’re probably right.
No-we`re not Ireland or Denmark.
No rerun…let them try.
Unfortunately, I think you’re right: this has all just been a charade. It has – inadvertently, of course – provided us with a glimmer of a hope, however, so I’ll still be voting out. I expect that will trigger another round of “negotiations” after which we will be required to vote again until we give the right answer. I will be very surprised if we actually do leave the European Union. Nevertheless, Cameron’s insincere buggering about has opened the door a crack.
It is also important to note that while it is necessary and desirable to leave the E.U. if you want to live in and independent sovereign state, it is by no means sufficient. There are so many things wrong with the country it’s hard to know where to start to list them.
Out, brothers, out!
The fact that our esteemed leader (ahem) has spent THREE DAYS in heated argument to achieve so very little must surely wake up those who say they’re still undecided. What on earth can people be confused about? The EU isn’t a friendly democratic club of like minded people or similar nations. it’s an undemocratic, bullying beast that’s intent on limitless expansion. At the moment we are one country among twenty seven others. That doesn’t make us stronger, it dilutes our power.
Very soon that economic powerhouse, Turkey, will be accepted into the fold. Oh joy! Another poverty stricken Muslim country with unrestricted access to Blighty.
What could possibly go wrong?
This is the latest from the live reporting, under the headline “take it or leave”
“Britain could gain leverage to secure more concessions from Europe by voting to leave, and then staging a second referendum to accept the improved package. ”
In other words, regardless of how we vote, we will NEVER leave. Cameron will simply ignore an OUT vote. I’ve said this all along, NEVER has Cameron said the referendum would be binding. The EU has form on this, remember. BASTARDS!!!!
No , if we do vote to leave that`s it , we leave , there is not going to be another option . that will be the end of it .
And that’s what the Irish NOers thought as well. Was it 3 times before they gave the ‘right’ answer?
Show me where Cameron said the referendum would be a once only, binding decision, and I’ll agree with you. Until then, sorry, the referendum is pointless. We’re trapped forever.
That , was Ireland , there is an Electoral Commission here to see fair play . This is the chance to leave, no if`s or but`s that`s it , which ever way it goes . There is only going to be ONE referendum .
Come back at the end of June and you’ll see. The only way an OUT vote would be taken seriously is if there was a massive margin, say 65-70%. We know that’s not going to happen, and I suspect that it will be decided by 1 or 2% at most. That will give Cameron an excuse to say there’s no mandate for such an important decision. Thinking he can swing 1-2%, he will go back to the EU, claim more meaningless concessions and we’ll have to decide again.
Listen, you must appreciate how absolutely desperate Cameron and his puppet masters are to stay in. This has the potential to bring down the government, and Cameron will risk EVERYTHING, including his own position, to stay in.
Or maybe a close finish will be predicted but a slight majority for staying in emerges after a few ballot boxes turn up late. However, as you say, a second referendum is likely to follow an exit vote.
I am sure that the voters of Tower Hamlets can be relied on to vote Remain.
Can they afford the stamps?
Perhaps not…
http://order-order.com/2016/02/19/grassroots-out-supporters-walk-out-in-protest-at-galloway/
What?…all 3 million of them?
“There is an Electoral Commission here to see fair play” Like they did in Thanet South? Like they did with the Islamic postal votes?
Car Moron is an used car salesman who is selling us a his ‘big deal’.
I hope that the British people can see through this including you . Watch Al Beeb give him their full support in the coming months.
oh dear this looks rather lame. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-02-19/of-course-matt-leblancs-first-day-filming-top-gear-involved-a-reliant-robin
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35616768
Well, who’d have f*****g thought it eh? The first act of the pantomime draws to a close. Everyone must surely realise this was going to happen all along, it’s the EU way. All the ‘leaders’ will go back to their country’s and claim victory, just as they always do, although the reality is the every EU citizen is a loser while ever this corrupt institution exists.
Sadly, today finally marks the end of UK sovereignty. United States of Europe is just around the corner and the EU juggernaut rolls on, swallowing all in its path.
They take us for fools, the trouble is….. that so many in our country are!
Unfortunately, the biggest fools are in the government.
Camerloon has apparently freed us from the yoke of ever closer union. As ever closer union is the raison d’etre of the EU what’s the point of UK membership of the EU?
German media are not interested in the British position. They see it as a diversion from the real purpose of the summit – freeing Germany from the self-inflicted “refugee” problem by threatening to cut the cash to countries who have indulged in “national egotism” and not done what Ma Merkel wants. She still believes that there can be no upper limit to the number of “refugees” claiming asylum in Germany because the Basic Law states that none claiming asylum can be turned away She seems incapable of understanding that passing a law to abolish gravity might not have a great deal of success. She is still counting on mythical feelings of “European solidarity”, the willingness of other EU countries to take a few enrichers off her hands. About 400 have been moved on since the crisis began. Only BREXIT can save us from these lunatics.
Its maybe that Scotland, keeps us in anyhow, while England, & maybe Wales vote to leave. NI may also vote to stay in. Its those countries that will swing it to remain.
That I agree with. We should have f***ed Scotland off when we had the chance.
Surely, the pro Scotland independence electorate will vote to leave, thus making the case for another referendum. On the other hand, maybe they’re not that cute in their thinking.
neilw:
“That I agree with. We should have f***ed Scotland off when we had the chance.”
You never had the chance you dizzy spastic. Scotland had the chance.
And it’s really RIGHT up there with the delusions of the liberals we all detest, to think that a country of 5 million could somehow keep 60 million in.
Do us all a favour and end yourself now. The Roman way. Honourable, like.
Is that really necessary?
Vital.
When I said “We”, I meant the collective “we”, the establishment, including the media. Had it not been for the endless scare stories there was a reasonable chance that the Scots would have voted for independence. Sadly, the same thing will happen for the EU vote, not that it really matters because an OUT vote would be ignored in any case.
A country of 5 million out of 60 is highly significant. if the polls are correct, close on 70% of our wee tartan friends want to remain, so yes, they will probably keep us in. I think you need a reality check.
Bravo! I’ve seen some creative excuses in my time, but your fumbling getout citing the use of “we” is fantastic!
There are various polls kicking about, as you well know. Taking voting age population into account, according to these polls, from ~1.8 million to ~2.5 million Scottish people will vote to ‘remain’.
I didn’t say that it had no significance at all, but when compared to our esteemed neighbours, it would be hypocrisy (or even cowardly denial) of a level unbeknownst to even Alan Bennett’s observations of his beloved homeland, to say that the ~20 million English ‘remains’ WOULDN’T BE THE THING THAT KEEPS US IN.
When you say ‘reality’, I don’t think you have the same concept as me, or anyone outside a padded room. Heed my advice about the Roman method.
Actually, you might well have been honestly using ‘we’ in the way you claim. Perhaps my inability to infer that came from the fact we’re on a website where all the commenters have the common denominator of being defiantly uncoupled from the Establishment and MSM. When it suits, though, eh?
Trust me, though, when I say that it wasn’t really possible to fuck off Scotland anymore than happened, between the divisive Salmond and the Unionist propaganda of the BBC. The ‘Project Fear’ over the EU referendum that many think they are in the midst of compares as a scratch to the gaping maw of the Independence Referendum.
Still, it’ll be England’s fault if we remain part of the EU.
NI will not vote to stay in, Essexman. Unionists are overwhelmingly leavers, and recent conversations I’ve had with friends from the ‘other side of the community’ show a surprising number of sceptics there too.
Essexman: “Its maybe that Scotland, keeps us in anyhow, while England, & maybe Wales vote to leave. NI may also vote to stay in. Its those countries that will swing it to remain.”
NI is tricky in that the ‘Outers’ there will also be very mindful of their border and all the recent past that thinking about policing it brings to mind. It will probably not be possible to keep open borders with Eire if the whole of the UK or England & Wales vote out and NI do as well. There will be pressure to remain in and to unite Ireland via the EU Referendum.
Scotland & Wales will be very interesting, too. Labour Party UK is having to swallow hard to overcome throwing up at the thought, but they’ve committed to Remain In despite, I think, really wanting to be out purely because they want to try and stage a recovery against the SNP. If they do, and if the Tories manage a small comeback – perhaps with UKIP gaining a foothold north of the border – then Scotland may just replicate the 2014 Referendum result, with a 5% margin wanting out of the EU. Or may not who knows. We know that Salmond is afeared of a June Referendum.
If what the Welsh politician said, recorded in a previous post lower down this page, is correct, UKIP may well throw everything into a campaign for the Welsh Parliament as well as a Welsh ‘Out’ vote. I think at present they may be well-advised to do so.
England? Who knows? Think I’ve made my mind up but four months . . . . ?
A week is a long time in politics.
#No Thanks!
Foxtrot Oscar, Camoron, you traitorous c**t.
1979 – and very prophetic!
Sorry – 1969!
https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/700806823486558208
I would love some reporter/ politician to actually call Cameron a traitor to Britain.
Something along the lines of…
‘What’s it like Mr Cameron, knowing that if we stay in the EU. History will show you to be one of, if not the worst traitor the country has ever seen?’
If anyone needs a JFK this man does.
Purgatory
I am sorry to say that I disagree, we need a new ‘Churchill’
I think that Purgatory was making an oblique reference to Lee Harvey Oswald – and the unknown people on the grassy knoll.
I originally types “men on the grassy knoll”, but of course in Britain in 2016 a reference to “men” without any qualifying adjectives has a very specific meaning.
Lose your money , your sovereignty , your dignity , your home but recommend the deal . How can you explain that away ?
No problem , the BBC is here to help .
I never could understand the BBC’s antipathy to Cameron. He is a typical hive product. The news at 10 could hardly have been more enthusiastic if it came direct from number 10. So Cameron is their man after all. Well we knew that.
No wonder the Tory clique never really speak against the BBC. Cameron’s lot despise us and in particular the party members in the shires. I suppose compared to our betters we are a trifle uncouth and still not progressive enough for them.
This deal is rubbish and we all know it so be prepared for spin on a massive scale. I really hope that Cameron’s pride comes before his fall. He is no conservative and definitely no patriot. What he and his ilk are I have no idea and no longer care. The world is hopefully moving our way that is against the purveyors of unreality and fantasy. I cannot see the EU lasting and the real motive of the so called heads of state was one of desperation. We go and it all collapses.
Watch this space as they say.
Wise words we may not hear on Al Beeb………………
“If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea”
The 53 Members of the Commonwealth and the rest of the world ………….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35616768
HYS
HYS at least offers opportunities to offer thoughts free from the BBC editorial integrity filter.
Just to share a posting from the last thread…
When the BBC has problems… and when the BBC has no problem at all….
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourbeeb/mike-berry/british-are-dangerously-ill-informed-about-eu-referendum
Beyond the comments, which honestly could be going better, it seems the British public needs to be more dangerously informed, and educated. Step up the national disgrace, and what’s this rushed to my in box?:
****
BBC Having difficulty reading this email? View it online
BBC News
Breaking News
Unanimous support for UK-EU deal – Tusk
There is unanimous support for UK-EU deal, European Council President Donald Tusk says
For more details, see the BBC News website
***
Yes! Unanimous support!….. A bloke says….
I am of course rushing to the BBC Newx website for ‘more details’ now.
Ok, I fibbed. I”m not really.
Oh, and they are on a roll. Another just swung in…
****
BBC Having difficulty reading this email? View it online
BBC News
Breaking News
Deal ‘includes seven-year welfare brake’
EU-UK deal includes seven-year brake on welfare payments and UK safeguards to protect City of London, BBC learns
****
See…. the BBC ‘has learned’. And passes such wisdom on to us. Using our money. It’s a miracle!
taffman, From your link:
Mr Farage unveiled former Respect MP George Galloway as a “special guest” at the [anti-EU] rally, describing him as a “towering figure on the left of British politics”.
Huh? Much as I respect Farage, I find that quote totally bizarre. I realise one has to sometimes welcome unsavoury members to a worthy cause, but surely there should be a limit?
Video starts off shakily with someone waving the camera around but then stabilises magically at 8:15 min in. I guess they found the tripod!
Truetoo, no I disagree; it’s absolutely necessary to tap into leftwing ‘leavers’ support. George cites Tony Benn/Michael Foot as his inspiration for getting out of Europe. Remember that deep down Corbyn is a Eurosceptic and this could apply to a number of his close followers (when it comes to the individual secret vote)
The ‘Leave’ campaign will need all the help it can muster when considering the fact that the ‘remain’ in brigade have the support of the USA, Bilderberg, Europe, the MSM and of course last not least the BBC.
Even eminent ‘leavers’ such as Portillo, Murray and Hitchens have conceded that the result of the vote is likely to be in favour of remaining (no doubt because of the above mentioned support)
It’s a cross party issue and I believe that the support of people such as Galloway can only help matters.
I have reconsidered and tend to agree. This is a vital issue and whoever wants to oppose the EU should be welcomed. But Farage didn’t need to be quite so enthusiastic towards a man who embraces Islamic terrorists like Hamas.
Remember that deep down Corbyn is a Eurosceptic…
The Grassroots Out Labour speaker – I think her name is Kate Howie – mentioned that Corbyn and McDonnell were against the EU but said that their opposition had been “stifled by the Labour Party machinery.” I thought that was a weird way to put it. After all, if these two regard themselves as leaders they should lead. And if they can’t stick to their principles they should piss off and find other jobs.
Thank Labour’s union paymasters for that. As is always the case, the party for the ‘working class’ is doing what it is told by corrupt and hypocritical union bosses.
Interesting. I hadn’t thought of that.
Thanks for posting the link, I don’t (generally) rate David Davis but It thought his speech was very good.
Agreed. I thought it was the best speech of the rally.
Is the eminent Pat Condell correct in his assessment of Angela Merkel – that she wants Germany to pay for the Second World War by committing suicide? I think it’s fair to say that Merkel is deeply ashamed of her country’s murderous role back then and that she is intent on proving that today’s Germany has been totally transformed into a giving, compassionate nation. And what better way to prove it than by welcoming a flood of ‘refugees’ in stark contrast to the Germany that slaughtered millions of innocents in the Holocaust and created a refugee crisis throughout Europe?
Well, it backfired badly when the Muslim invaders showed what they thought of German hospitality and compassion with the mass rape in Cologne. No doubt for Merkel that was an unforeseen consequence of her grand gesture. But other consequences were perhaps planned – like the certainty that the invaders will in time help ensure that the political left retains power in Germany.
Another unintended consequence is the threat the Muslim invasion poses to Germany’s Jewish community. There is of course a supreme irony in the fact that Merkel’s insane policy has created a substantial community of new Nazis of the Muslim variety – which may come into conflict with existing neo-Nazis but is equally likely to act in unison with them, given their mutual hatred of Jews.
Needless to say, the Muslim invasion of Germany and other European countries will be bad for Europe as a whole. The dictators in Brussels can rub their hands in glee for now at the influx of new voters who will keep member states subservient to their rule, but if they continue to facilitate the invasion they will in time be ousted from power by the invaders – who will seize the opportunity to create an Islamic Europe.
My thoughts and hopes are with you in Britain as you struggle to rid yourselves of the monstrous EU and its enablers like the traitorous Cameron.
Dont worry TrueToo,
Considering the average standing of those on the left these days it wouldn’t take much to become a “towering” figure.
So it’s hardly a glowing tribute if you think about it.
Nigel did say he would share a platform with all people from across the political spectrum. Good on him. He did not say, as far as I know, that he wanted to marry him.
Let’s leave the ‘no platform’ tactics to the other side.
(Remember too that Georgie was on the right side during the Scottish referendum)
Thanks for the chuckle. Galloway is indeed only “towering” to those who have no judgement. Farage didn’t have to be that complimentary.
Come to think of it, you are right. If it helps destroy the EU or at least achieve Brexit you should team up with anyone.
How many adherents to the cause could Galloway muster?
I hope Nigel knows what he is doing, unholy alliances to facilitate short term gain can often return to bite the nether regions at a future date. Galloway is absolute poison, duplicitous on a level few could ever reach, both charming and plausible he is the smiling assassin personified. Making a deal with the devil is a bridge too far, there are way too many unanswered questions concerning gorgeous George, I’ll still support Nigel but he’s gone down a little in my estimation.
The niceties and less savoury realities of diplomacy have in history thrown up some odd bedfellows, but usually the savvy operator has managed to use the association without much skid mark afterwards. Especially with a deft turn of phrase.
The Queen has mastered this well. Gush with Galloway seems…. inadvisable.
The deft turn of phrase that sprang immediately to my mind was
“I hadn’t expected to see President Mugabe there. Because it was quite dark in that corner,…”
Galloway, as you point out, is poison. A self-serving egotistical opportunist. While that could be said of any politician, Galloway plunges depths that even the others cannot reach. The Grassroots movement needs to drop him asap.
Well , you need me & the Essex mafia too . Pritti , John W. , James Cleverly , Bernard Jenkin , for starters , plus D . Carswell , about 40% of the county already .
I think I am the only person I know who thinks that David Cameron had to make all the right noises so that, when the UK votes to leave the EU, the ‘INs’ won’t be able to accuse him of not trying to get a deal? I have thought this all along, and I hope I am right. He’s damned if he does ‘renegotiate terms, and damned if he doesn’t. What will be interesting from now on is how the BBC handles it all.
I can’t help thinking that the whole “negotiation” thing has been choreographed from the very beginning for maximum impact. Cynical indeed but a lot at stake for the EU and what’s a late night or two to get our billions in nett contributions for ever (well, until our prosperity is diluted to the world average by Agenda 21 and its bastard offspring AGW)?
“negotiation”
I believe it’s been what’s known as a ‘Kabuki Play’
Kabuki is a classical Japanese dance-drama. Kabuki theatre is known for the stylization of its drama and for the elaborate make-up worn by some of its performers.
Agenda 21: Tick.
News covering EU Negotiations being pre-planned: Not confident enough to commit.
Ha!
Of course it’s theatre; but how one interprets the intentions of the playwright comes down to how one interprets the language used to describe the fateful process. Oink oink.
aww Shammy Chakarabati is a fan of Harper Lee. Remind me who cares what Shammy thinks ?
So David is going to campaign with his heart and soul for what exactly :
-More immigration
– Continued benefits to kids who have never set foot in the Country
– to keep on being a net contributor in the billions of pounds to country’s without a pot to piss in
– no ability to make our own laws
Go Dave – you showed them there
Didn`t the liberal left reviews give old Mrs Lee a pounding a few months ago for her last prequel to her “To Kill a Mockingbird”.
Which I`m proud to say I`ve never read-let alone ever taught.
If it created a load of Clintons, Blairs and Sharptons as those agitpotp luvvies said-then I`d “no platform it” due to its corrosive nature.
After all books kill-Catcher in the Rye sealed Lennons record collection didn`t it?
And no liberal call on the East Coast to re-open HIS case is there?
Yep-they slated her final book, but have neatly stepped over the chalk lines to tell us all how much they loved her.
Maybe the bad reviews killed her?….might see if Ed Stourton would want to see if Mark Lawsons mob did for her.
And-years of inquiries, judicial reviews and up to Strasbourg to get a posthumous review of her “To Kill a Watchman”. The endless Nutmeg reports until I get my way?
“Go Set a Mockingbird”?…in jelly aspic and served with larks tongues?…one for the Greenie Bookgroups under the stern gaze of our local council-who seem to monitor library loans these days!
Enochs been removed-as has Warraqs classic on “Why I am not a Muslim”…
As in any vote, the Referendum will be won by the side who can persuade enough swing voters, in this case the ‘unsure/don’t knows’. I suspect that this group will be very susceptible to Project Fear and whether enough big name politicians join the Outers. If they were deep thinkers, they would already have formed a view. The ‘renegotiation’ has achieved nothing that the UK didn’t already have, or cannot be later reversed. It is this point that somehow needs to be driven home to those ‘don’t knows’ who were somehow expecting the ‘renegotiation’ to make their minds up for them.
About the only hope left is the IN crowd persuade Eddie Izzard to front up, but only so long as every impartial BBC producer features him.
Note the BBC-and,no doubt their fellow travellers on the Eurostar “train de jus”-are continuing to squauk the “But The Outers need a leader-won`t ONE of those splinter groups speak for us all?).
Fukwitz!
It is a REFERENDUM..still-isn`t it?…not multiple choice?
So it`s easy…I want OUT-and have seen enough of Cologne, Cyrprus, Calis, Molenbeek, Duisberg, Troikas, Cleggs and Kinnocks, Andreasens, Buttiglionis, Mandelsons and Thorburn/Herrons.
So…it being IN or OUT?…YES or NO?…I`ve no need to see if Boris has blue bike clips or not…or coded notes to a Theresa Villiers.
Stay simplistic and populist-Islamophobic and racist…but not racialist or anti Muslim…we`ll yet find the good un`s who are in more danger than me!
Have these liberal merdes not figured out after May 7th last…their flatulent bubble is their affair-and I`m heaven sent to pop it!
Let`s hope this no brainer stays like that-you either want your granddaughters screwed where Occupy used to camp in Paternoster Square…or you don`t.
You either still hope to have a camping holiday in Kent or the Norfolk coast-or you`ll get Calais or Sangatte to negotiate.
What`s to discuss?
AND-for all those cretins who are telling me that “evictions” in Calais of the Jungle bennies will involve 1000(or maybe double…the BBC won`t dare go in to count them)…having heard that poor woman, that arrested general and all the others
who LIVE next to this scum who so concern the BBC…I`d say that 40,000 people will be “involved and affected”-and 38,000 of them will be DELIGHTED to see the f***ers razed to the ground….send them to Strasbourg, Luxembourg and Brussels…but not Cologne until it`s been “ethically cleansed”
I was wondering.
As our hapless MEP discovered not so long ago when ‘explaining’ things, the public seemed to understand just fine without anyone presuming to know better.
Especially any trying to motivate using fear.
Not every club can compel you to stay, or keep funding them, without a decent pitch.
I turned on the TV this morning to find that Breakfast‘s Naga was out in the cold. If only it was permanent!
Then back to the studio for the latest NHS ‘crisis’. A senior paediatric professor ‘says’ that NHS 111 is failing very young children, it unsafe and dangerous etc. clearly we were expected to believe that this was yet one more nail in the Government’s share of the NHS coffin and (unspoken) links to their last child death campaign.
Up pops our professor who straightaway dismisses the whole of the BBC headline. All she wants to achieve is for continuous assessment of the effectiveness of ‘111’ as regards children. ‘Yes, but’ says the House Eunuch, ‘what are the poor parents going to do with the ‘111’ service manned by spotty teenagers and children dying left right and centre and any more doom-laden messages that we can put out?’
Well the off-message professor says that she has no reason to believe that the service is failing but she would like measurements made and it would help if what she actually said was reported, [not the fake story made up by the BBC].
BBC Breakfast. Why ?
BBC anxious to paste over the rift between the Pope and Trump after Pope on his return to his walled state accuses Trump of not being a Christian for proposing walls.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-35615331
So why were the walls built around the Vatican?
Well, I guess you could say that the Pope thought he could trump Trump with a really weak hand.
As our friend on a previous blog quoted us 2 Chronicles 14. 7 to show why and when walls NEED to be built( and i`m not even including a whole book of the Bible-Nehemiah- which is about rebuilding walls that had been destroyed by Jew haters…I paraphrase!)-and there is not ONE mention of “bridges”-let alone “bridge building”-then we can only assume that Pope Frankie knows less about his so-called Holy Book than a couple of bloggers on a site in England.
But as long as Willey and Stourton will serve as footstools in business class, this most useless and dopey of popes will be happy.
His number 3…George Pell-is wanted to answer the usual “Boyzone Question” back in Oz…yet Franics thinks that TRUMP isn`t as Christian as George Pell?…
AND-if any churchy types tell you about our need to open out borders and stay in the EU-give them Acts 17.26 and tell them they`re going to hell if they can`t square the theological implications of it…I know them, but won`t tell the EU suckups and Jungles Bunnies who seek more Calais and Cologne chaps onto our shores.
But there are five entrances to the Vatican City state, each of these gaps in the wall are guarded by Pontifical Swiss Guards with Heckler & Koch MP7 submachine guns, should any Muslim invaders try to enter the territory of his Holiness the Pope.
Sorry to report to regulars that George R, who graced this site with distinction for many years, will be posting no more. He has entered the final stage of his illness, and there is no hope. Some readers will remember that I posted news of a devastating stroke at the time of the general election. Eulogy to follow…
I’m really sorry to hear that. I often picked up on his links and other contributions to the blog.
I am very sorry to hear that. I hope the end, when it comes, will be as peaceful as possible.
This is the sort of nonsense that makes my blood boil, particularly as I pay for it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35617232
So Mohamed f*cks off to Germany leaving a wife and disabled child to an unknown fate. The BBC thinks this is noble behaviour. The baddies are the authorities that are dragging their heels in getting Mo’s family to Germany. That might be something to do with the unprecedented level of applications from other men who have deserted their families. No wait, that can’t be right, the masses swarming over the borders were all women and children, many disabled. The BBC told me that.
The man is a coward and should have his yellow @rse kicked straight back to look after his family, that’s what fathers do.
The BBC constantly amazes me with its ability to plumb ever lower depths.
The BBC as presently constituted will never stop running stories about ‘the NHS in crisis ‘ or ‘ the benefits of mass immigration and multi- culturalism’.
The really worrying thing is that if a conservative government won’t tackle the following, then who will?
Using the BBC charter renegotiations to change its monopoly position and left wing culture.
Stopping mass immigration from both inside and outside the EU.
Restoring British sovereignty through meaningful EU renegotiation or advising the electorate to vote leave .
It’s no use replying ‘UKIP’ because they will never win enough seats to even influence a government under our voting system .
In which case, assuming you are correct about UKIP, the only hope is a government with a Conservative leader who isn’t a squishy metrosexual – in other words, not Cameron or any of his cabinet.
However, as even Margaret Thatcher was unable, or unwilling, to bring the monster to order, I am not hopeful.
Just imagine.
Had they chosen to head south and stay onland-none of that dangerous Med stuff-all this lot of Muslim umma could have gone down to Saudi and all those money-bagged states that border it.
Loads of tents from Mecca, loads of empty new towns in Qatar and the UAE-jobs, money and all that legendary Arab hospitality-turkish delight and rosewater houris on the divan.
And within a short hop to Mecca as well.
Anybody from the BBC care to tell us why their vulnerable blokes highlighted didn`t go to Saudi etc…where the Muslims could show the rest of us how “community and welfare heaven” SHOULD be done?
How very dare I?…
BBC Radio 4 continuing disinforming and failing to educate – plus another lecture on an issue which the BBC has taken a stand over – US Gun Control all sewn up with some mandatory Islamophillia – all in a single program! Kate Adey must be in line for a promotion!
A Man Dies Twice
From Our Own Correspondent
Meeting the people populating the world of news. In this edition: thousands were massacred in the Bosnian town of Visegrad during the war there in 1992 – today, as Fergal Keane has been finding out, the authorities there want it to become a tourist destination. Visegrad is also on Nick Thorpe’s mind only he’s talking about the town by the River Danube in Hungary, where the so-called Visegrad 4, a grouping of regional nations, was born. Nick says that in today’s Europe, their voice can no longer be ignored.
As the US-election spotlight turns to South Carolina and Nevada, Robert Hodierne examines gun control and why the laws governing it won’t be changing any time soon. Beth McLeod is in Malawi travelling on a boat built in Scotland when the country was a British protectorate which continues to provide a vital service to local communities. And he may have lived in Paris for two decades, but our man Hugh Schofield explains why it’s only now, finally, that he seems to wield a bit of influence!
Visegrad was of course the scene of a Massacre of Muslims when one morning a bad white man woke up and decided to wipe out an entire country of Muslims, and a lot of other bad men followed his commands!
This is the scale of the BBC disinformation campaign, and its still going on!
And of course Robert Hodierne is in favour of banning guns despite owning one, and holding a concealed carry licence!
Our man Hugh Schofield living in the Socialist republic of Paris ??? How many of the BBC apparatchiks are living there? You can bet they aren’t paying the 70% taxes levied by the Socialist government, that would be a step too far !
A BBC ‘reporter’ laments that Climate Change hasn’t been dealt with cos of lobbying money.
Is this reporting or campaigning ? : This FOOC seg seems like a Party Political Advert for the Democratic Party
audio FOOC 29/02/201 Robert Hodierne :
In the last 2 years the NRA has spent NEARLY $30m lobbying lawmakers *
… Gun deaths have almost doubled since 1960 in the last and kill more than traffic accidents **
“With Republicans.. firmly in control of both houses of Congress ..tightening of gun laws seems unlikely ”
“It’s all about money” “If America were to limit the role that money plays in electing public officials. a wide away of issues with wide public support would be dealt with.
Everything from Climate Change, to Health Care, to guns !
STOP right there … “all about money” They control both houses of Congress cos they were democratically elected ..their policy is NOT “all about money”, it’s democracy
* “NEARLY $30m lobbying” over 2 years that doesn’t seem a huge amount of money…when the big Green NGO’s spend magnitudes more on lobbying ..So why doesn’t he consider their role ?
** Lie by omission – #1 Relevant number is per head of population, not absolute number. Why ? cos since 1960 population has also almost doubled (up 77%)
#2 The context is the increase in suicides. The gun deaths are mostly not the shootings of the public you might think, but MALES using it as their preferred method of suicide. (Control male suicide and gun deaths would drop)
George R died just before midday. Symbolic that he should die on the day of a historic EU fudge.
Alan (to use his real name) was a 1950s student radical who demonstrated against Suez. He became a polytechnic lecturer, and for many years was a typical member of that breed. Then, something changed. I was with him when he helped campaign for the Referendum Party in 1997.
The turning point was 9/11. These people really were out to kill us! The BBC was in the vanguard of the politically correct pieties:’Islam is a religion of peace’, ‘the terrorists are not real Muslims’ etc etc. Alan cut through these pieties like a rapier. He coined the term INBBC, Islam not British Broadcasting Corporation, and who can say he was wrong? Many of his posts were about INBBC says this, INBBC says that. It is fair to say he was my political mentor.
Yes, he could be obsessive. Yes, some of his friends fell away, as they observed the change in his politics. But the important thing to note is that he was RIGHT. It was on this site that, in his declining years, he was able to find his true expression.
This site will be the poorer for his passing. My plea for those of you who remain is to keep his memory alive. We must never become a Muslim country! And INBBC cannot be allowed to get away with being soft on Islam.
RIP Alan. You saw the light and expressed it splendidly.
Thank you for letting us know. Posters come and go and being anonymous, one never knows why or how.
Alan (aka George R, we now learn) will be missed. RIP, indeed.
I’m truly sorry to hear that. The phrase “some of his friends fell away” tells why so many like-minded keep their own counsel and the BBC’s poisoning of the debate bears much responsibility.
Thanks coeur de lion.
This site has a lot of good people who would be great company, funny and with views and a back story that shows wit, coverage and independence of mind.
Replace “50s”…with “80s”….add a few other watersheds apart from 9/11 by way of steps on the road to here…and his story will be mine in large part as well.
God Bless him and His family and friends-and thanks again for telling us about him…worth a long eulogy I`d say!
Much as I despise Islamism, I really hate the Camp Town Racists who actually do the violence at Pegida meetings..white loathsome occupy students and safe space cadets who long ago became any number of columns-pillocks of Islam…well more that five anyhoo.
Muslims can threaten-but its the Brownshite left that dance on Mrs Ts grave and threaten old tory ladies who attend open meetings…
Close call-but hate the left first…RIP Alan sir!
Condolences to those who knew him personally beyond these pages.
His contributions were appreciated much further,
I just commented on the previous message but I will add that I am sad to hear of the end of a truly good and intelligent person. My condolences to his family and his true friends.
This fine site has been going for nearly thirteen years. I started to contribute a few years after it started and I’ve been trying remember if George R was here at the time. He certainly was a veteran contributor and yes, he will be missed. RIP.
Maybe we all need to get out eulogies ready up here…let`s race each other to get onto “Last Word”.
Maybe that last even programme of Last Word at 4pm one Friday soon , would feature whichever one of us was most instrumental in closing the whole network down!
What a eulogy!…”On Last Word today, the story of____-who I have to thank for throwing me and all here at Radio 4 onto Red Crescent Yemeni Hospital radio.Getting my circumcision and jabs at 5pm in Harley Street.
Thanks a lot____”!
Dare to dream….George R could be our Biko!
And-seeing as the BBC fake so much-we`ll be alive to hear our own obituaries!
“Jeff… Very soon that economic powerhouse, Turkey, will be accepted into the fold. Oh joy! Another poverty stricken Muslim country with unrestricted access to Blighty.”
This worries me greatly, but talking to lots of my friends – ordinary folk with ordinary lives and doting on grandkids, there seems a lot of apathy, and they don’t feel strongly one way or t’other. This worries me too, because they could well vote to stay IN, and when things go belly up with more immigrants clamouring on the door, they’ll be moaning like hell and then decide they wish they’d voted OUT. Security and Trade ? I’m more concerned about the security when IS are slipping in unrestricted, but what happens after the proposed 7 year ‘brake’ on benefits ? is it back to the negotiating table or does the ‘brake’ finish and then its a free for all on benefits ? Most of the public are not academics, but hope to God they think about what this country will be like for their kids and grandchildren if they vote to stay IN.
Astonishingly (as I don’t consider them stupid people) I am even fighting this war within my own family, two members of which are dithering, having been scared by Project Fear.
We have a tremendous fight on our hands, that much is certain, and it will be our last chance to save the Britain we have known and loved.
This may help- Michael Gove’s statement on why we must LEAVE the EU. Go to Guido who has published it in full, copy it and send it as far and as wide as possible – you can guarantee the BBC will do its best to hide it and supress it.
G Cooper depressingly I am in the same position as you with my voting age kids. Both are bright and my then wife and I bought them up to be caring and compassionate (which I dont regret).
Unfortunately as they lack the same life experience we have, they are unable to pick out the truth from the spin which the MSM and in particular Aunty impart to any subject (particularly with relevance to migration).
The BBC know that most people are pretty decent (and I do think us Brits still look out for the underdog). Therefore they are very adept at manipulating both the sheep and weak minded in our population – “Project Fear” and the more intelligent individuals by the use of manipulating images and downright lies and smothering every migrant related event with a cloying compassion appeal overload or denial (in the case of the Cologne Fun Night)
Depressing though this is I will still keep banging on as I believe that if we are able to escape the shackles of the EU we do have a chance to get back some of the values and culture that made this country such a great place to be bought up in.
So the predictable cabinet quintet have taken the plunge and opted for out – and all credit to them. If Boris continues to vacillate, however, he loses credibility by the hour which may well serve him right – and perhaps do the rest of us a favour.
Sorry dont trust Boris any more – sat on his fat arse for too long! No principles or belief there, just self interest and cunning -Should get a job with the BBC
With you there oaknash.
He`s a liberals version of what a harmless Tory should be like-so he`s shallow, vacillating and a media creation.
Just a cartoon really-clever bloke, but-like Joseph or Letwin-a political buffoon if actually required to STAND for anything.
Like the aforesaid-he`s got a role as a camp comic, warm up man or head in the clouds other worldy boffin…but not fit to be near any office that would allow him to DO anything-he`d call it wrong every time.
Boris looks like he’s just left it far too long to choose his side. He’s caught in a cleft stick with him now looking like a follower not a leader, especially if he sticks with Cameron, and looking like he backed the wrong horse if he backs leave and we don’t.
The only way Boris could win would be if he backs the leave campaign we vote out, and then goes for the leadership when Cameron has to resign.
If he leaves it much longer then his future is lost.
Referendum in June:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35621079
Previous EU In/Out HYS have removed poss like this:
12. Posted by finnerz
on
1 hour ago
Vote UP to leave
Vote DOWN to stay
Number of UP ratings 317
Number of DOWN ratings 104
Those were the numbers a 13:45
Lets see if the post is left alone or ‘moderated’.
What a surprise, the post by finnerz that I mentioned above has been removed. Out was leading in by 3:1. The BBC really are a bunch of devious b@st@rds.
Devious they certainly are. Can’t have people expressing Brexit opinions in an effective way through polls.
Did I just hear that right? “Nevin” Chamberlin editor on BBC “World At One” … You couldn’t make it up!
Have just watched the 1pm News on the BBC news channel which was solely about the EU referendum in the 30min section we got Dave’s speech, fair enough, news that Gove was for Leave, but his comments were too long to read. An interview with Corbyn, a round up of the opinions Scotland, NI and Wales. The reporter from Wales could have been a spokesman for the Welsh Labour Party as he was saying they are very unhappy as the referendum will take place close to local elections in May and give UKIP a platform who might go from 0 to 8 seats!!! Then finally we had a comment from someone (missed who it was) from the Remain campaign. Not a single representative of the Out camp asked to comment, frankly I couldnt believe it, not even from the BBC.
Expect more of the same! The BBC will be using every trick in the book – and a few newly minted ones – to swing this their way.
The important thing to remember is that we who read blogs and use forums are a minority. We need to make sure that those who primarily get their ‘news’ from the liars at the BBC are given the truth as an antidote.
Remind me again-how much does the BBC get for agreeing to peddle their lies from the EU?
And in fact-as we saw last year-the more the BBC poll, persuade and fiddle about like Savile on a plywood violin-the more the sensible British quietly exact revenge at the ballot box.
Remember this-only liberal retired loafers with too much time on their hads actually LISTEN to the BBC anymore…when the Queen herself went over to ITV after 2012…only Brand, Williams, Corbyn and Toynbee(and their Twatter feeders) give a damn what the BBC say.
Public sector basking sharks by the kiddies pool don`t have a vote…who knows?…the Guardian and its papier mache wailing walls might be getting breached by them if it continues to lose shedloads of money-sorry asylum seeking paedophiles….
GC: “The important thing to remember is that we who read blogs and use forums are a minority. We need to make sure that those who primarily get their ‘news’ from the liars at the BBC are given the truth as an antidote.”
You are very right about that minority aspect. The 18-25yo age group are said to be the ones who may decide it. (I think I’m sorry that 16-17yo were not given a vote as I think they may be more inclined to vote Leave EU. Not easy to tell teens what to do plus they often have an innocent, untainted ‘nose’ for smelling when they are being sold a pup.)
I hope and like to think that you wouldn’t call any Remain In and undecideds ‘liars’ in debates & discussions: there will be minds to be changed and getting into slanging matches may have the opposite effects to those desired.
In gearing up for debate, I was very surprised at or by Chris Grayling (Conservative) on TWtW. (Lunchtime news, extended edition, BBC R4 today. He was very statesmanlike, very measured, very clear and gently firm(!) in his arguments. Whatever side readers & commenters here may be on, Referendum-wise, if you did not hear it, I urge you to catch it on iPlayer. Sorry, do not have a specific time but I guess it is about 20-25 minutes in.
I think I made it pretty clear that it is the BBC I accuse of being liars. And habitual ones, at that.
Regular counts of that sort are a must if impartiality of any sort is to be forced out of the BBC. As is their widespread publicity.
But if you were up at 9am – as I was this Saturday the BBC R4 team did interview some MEP’s on their response on Cameeroons caper and were given air time showing how the charade works. I thought perhaps I was listening to a new channel or a BBC revamped news with careful explanation of the ‘pros’ and ‘cons’… and then something rather odd happened on-air. In the middle of an interview with a Brexit spokeman (missed his name but not Farage) there was a long pause … and —silence for about 20 seconds or so. There was no ‘intermission’ break but a cut back to the spokesman just finishing… and then a much longer break (and I counted two minutes). This was followed by an announcement ‘due to a technical fault we have not been able to blah, blah…’ and then the presenter had to waffle on about ‘poetry readings’ and forthcoming BBC programs for a few minutes. Whilst buttering my toast I thought ‘bloody typical’ – on the first day of Poltical Campaigning and the BBC blame a technical fault. What are the odds that the BBC are able to do that on cue over the next few months?
Can there be a more rude bunch of ‘professionals’ than tv journalists ? Just watched fatty Boulton and Faisal Islam shouting like a couple of fish wives across Downing Street to ministers leaving no.10, asking if they are IN or OUT. Embarrassing to watch. Its the same when these journo’s doorstep their prey as they get into a taxi and demand a statement from them. Equally photographers who jostle for that nostril shot of their victim. Maybe its me, but finesse and politeness clearly have been consigned to the dustbin of a previous life.
Not a BBC bias but did I hear David Cameron correctly today saying after we choose to stay in or out of the EU he “will do his best to enforce that decision” i.e. if you vote out then he will ignore that, insist on a re-negotiation with the EU again and hold another referendum until he gets the answer he wants.
I’m sorry. I didn’t hear that. Dave actually said He’d do his best to see that the peoples decision was enforced?
Do his best?
Are you shitting me?
Sorry. Should I have thrown in a special character there?
The BBC’s mouthpiece the Guardian today gives us this pretentious piece of conceited tosh “Here’s how to argue with a Brexiter – and win”
Sadly (and remember this is the Guardian) comments ain’t going their way….
Top Rated (Deusxxmachina 157 upvotes to date):
Gods! has more nonsense ever been written in the history of journalism?
He says: Being in the EU helps keep us safe from terrorism and international crime.
Fact: the atrocities in Paris were committed by terrorists who were able to move from one country to another because of the EU’s open borders.
Fact: the French and Belgian authorities exchange information because they are EU partners but it took the intelligence services of a NORTH AFRICAN country to tell them that the perpetrator and organiser of the Paris attacks was a Belgian national who was actually in Belgium!
He says: the EU can be changed. While the reforms Cameron has secured are modest, there’s a swelling chorus of voices in countries like Germany saying not just “We must do this, reluctantly, to keep Britain in”, but “We really do need to reform the EU”. If Britain remains, the reform lobby is strong; if it leaves, much weaker.
So much for the EU being good for our security.
But again – if the EU can be changed then why didn’t the leaders consider change? Why give modest changes to Britain if they can be lobbied to reform? You can’t have it both ways.
Also rather than make claims about change I challenge you or any other remain proponent to give one example, just one, of an instance where Britain has been able to change the integrationist project. Many British people are worried about EU immigration. Give one example of where Britain has been able to influence the ‘free movement’ principle?
Well I know for a fact that its easier for the British governing services to communicate with Australian governing services, than with French governing services, even though we and the French are in the EU, and Australia is geographically isolated, as well as being politically isolated from the EU.
Communication is better because the Australians speak English, not because of a need for political union, such as a need for Australia to share a Queen, or join the EU.
In Int. circles , there is a very special relationship between MI5 / SIS (MI6) & US ,Canada , Australia & NZ , Int. organisations .
It’s called ‘Five Eyes’ and it began in WWII to coordinate signals intelligence.
It shows that the bonds between nations are cultural, not nakedly political, and justifies the obvious truth that there is an Anglosphere.
How to argue with a brinner & win – but the EU gives us this & that and think of the risks if we leave when the EU might not let us trade with them.
There won’t be an EU for more than a couple of years if we leave !
Even if we stay it’s doubtful it can survive in the medium let alone the long term !
I know this is nothing to do with any of the current subjects. But with the BBC always playing the schools have no money and the NHS has no money card, this example someone sent me from Japan about school dinners is an eye opener.
Move over Jamie Oliver and let the kids handle it.
http://www.dailyliked.net/school-lunch-in-japan/
The article doesn’t surprise me. I holidayed in Japan last year, and it was a place I could happily spend the rest of my life ! People were extraordinarily polite, no graffiti, no pavements with chewing gum, lorry drivers wore white gloves (!), taxi drivers wore suits and their cabs were spotless, public toilets were unbelievably equally spotless, and service in the shops was unequalled. There was no diversity as such – the other tourists were mainly Chinese and Korean. The elderly are revered, and remembering the hoo ha of publicity surrounding breast feeding in this country, I saw a young Mum with friends having lunch – around her shoulder was a light wrap with a feeding infant underneath; no fuss or bother and nobody was any the wiser or ‘offended’. The food took some getting used to, as was seeing so many surgical masks being worn; but for me a wonderful country.
Re Japan – it is virtually a living monument to the maxim that homogeneity, not diversity, is strength.
Those with longer memories might recall that the UK initially decided against joining the original EEC, formed after the Treaty of Rome in 1957, though by the 60s we had begun to think it might not be such a bad idea. De Gaulle – the longest and most arrogant streak of piss ever to run a Western country – kept us out, however, for most of the next 15 years through a combination of spite, paranoia and hatred both of the UK and the US. And when we were eventually allowed to join the elite, it was on their terms – including, among the many negative details, the loss of our fisheries.
Oddly enough, since history is so despised by our current news suppliers, these annoying yet highly relevant details are being overlooked by the ‘In-Crowd’ and completely ignored by those who were once directly involved. Can’t think why.
That’s a good point Beltane, I particularly recognise your comments about De Gaulle, what a self important and ungracious person he was. He absolutely hated us despite our saving his life and saving his country. Churchill and De Gaulle always had a mutual dislike of one another. During visits to war cemeteries, I went to a few nearby war museums in France. The efforts of the British during the war are played down, the emphasis is placed on the French Resistance (an oxymoron in my book). A very ungrateful,self absorbed,over rated country, where the magic word of Thank You has never been adequately reflected in their post war dealings with us.
The gloves are slowly being removed as the prospect of the great unwashed finally having a vote on Europe looks more of a reality (I’m counting no chickens until it happens)
A bit nasty and with an undertone of spite Katya Adler starts the ball rolling.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35620434
“crowing” indeed, I’m no Dave fan but I don’t expect that kind of… well no actually thats just what I expect from the BBC.
I can’t wait for the wording on the ballot paper to be decided upon, heads I win tails you lose looks a likely option.
Here is another example of the subtle way the BBC will try to lead opinion:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35621079
In the link are statements like this:
‘The UK held a referendum in 1975 shortly after it joined the EU. The vote was in favour of staying in, but there have been growing calls from the public and politicians for another vote because, they argue, the EU has changed a lot over the past 40 years.’
Notice the inclusion of the innocuous ‘they argue’ in the quote and the incorrect use of the term EU which was founded in 1993. It is not a matter of opinion that the organisation the UK joined has changed, it has changed. The UK joined the EEC which was basically a glorified free trade association. The EU is an altogether different beast.
The BBC will be working overtime to try and undermine the Out campaign. All in a totally impartial manner you understand.
Ms. Adler’s Twitter feed is not encouraging if unsurprising for a national broadcast editor steeped in the professional principles of BBC impartiality:
“BBC Europe Editor. Views my own”.
Sorry for a sucking eggs history lesson, but I didn’t know that Edward Heath had already taken us into the EU two years prior to the referendum.
The United Kingdom referendum of 1975 was a post-legislative referendum held on 5 June 1975 in the United Kingdom to gauge support for the country’s continued membership of the European Economic Community (EEC), often known as the Common Market at the time, which it had entered in 1973 under the Conservative government of Edward Heath. Labour’s manifesto for the October 1974 general election promised that the people would decide “through the ballot box” whether to remain in the EEC. The electorate expressed significant support for EEC membership, with 67% in favour on a 65% turnout.
The February 1974 general election yielded a Labour minority government, which then won a majority in the October 1974 general election. Labour pledged in its February 1974 manifesto to renegotiate the terms of British accession to the EEC, and to then consult the public on whether Britain should stay in the EEC on the new terms if they were acceptable to the government. The Labour Party had traditionally feared the consequences of EEC membership, such as the large differentials between the high price of food under the Common Agricultural Policy and the low prices prevalent in Commonwealth markets, as well as the loss of economic sovereignty and the freedom of governments to engage in socialist industrial policies, and party leaders stated their opinion that the Conservatives had negotiated unfavourable terms for Britain.
Don’t know about you, but it sounds to me like history is repeating itself!
Tories pushed into a referendum they didn’t/don’t want by another party who looked like costing them votes.
A renegotiation of the UK relationship with the EU
Tories negotiating unfavourable terms with the EU !
I fear we do not have a hope in hell. I was out with a friend this afternoon for a couple of pints and he was telling me how he went off Dave but now thinks he did a good job with all them long hours of negotiation and what he came back with.
Everybody please …
-We live on an Island of coal we are energy self sufficient if we choose to be
– We are the cleverest people on the planet – think Concorde
– the City of London is the Worlds financial market
– We have the best engineers in the World
We do not need anybody
But we don’t have the best engineers, they are all in Syria along with the best doctors and brain surgeons. Apparently.
Beggars believe eh thank gawd I am 50 and will not see the backlash
Tell your mate Lock13
Cameron is a traitor… end of.
Lock 13, we apparently now have as much oil at Gatwick as the biggest well currently operating in the USA. But sssshhhh, don’t make a fuss about it or everybody will want some!
PS: I disagree with your last line. We don’t need rafts of politicians & civil servants & other faceless bureaucrats. We do not need to live in the past. But we cannot cut off our inter-dependency with everyone on this planet: our world is now globalised.
Yes and that is why we don’t need the EU. We actually export more to the rest of world and it is rising. Whilst the EU (only propped up by Germany) is falling along with the Euro. We can only exist outside the EU and our financial district (global investment and insurance services) has long been a target of transfer to EU controlled Frankfurt and our inevitable inclusion (by force) into propping up the Euro. In fact propping up the Euro by ‘pooling resources’ and writing off all debts (i.e. Greece) is already being discussed by pro EU groups requiring ‘further integration’ to be accelerated. Cameroons assurance is already in tatters on day one.
More factual information can be found on the FREEDOM BREXIT campaign team which along with facts to combat the BBC ‘news opinion’ we are forced fed. One other link (just found today) is our old friends at the The Unit which has long campaigned about the dangers of the EU future plans. On this site link (views and comment) is a chilling ebook on what actually will happen when IF and WHEN – we vote to ‘stay’. READ: A laymans guide ‘DEMOCRACY IN A FEDERALISED EUROPE’ as it predicts what is happening and what will happen should we fail to combat the BBC pro Euro propaganda unit. One of the predictions includes reducing the number of MP’s and making MEP’s responsible to Brussels parliament as well as making Police totally PC as well as enforce (by intimidation) any anti-EU dissent.
The argument some make that we need to be in the EU to trade with them is as bizarre as it is comic. Does Japan need to be a member of the EU to sell its products to member states?
Look around your house and count the number of German domestic appliances you own. Then add the German car that so many drive. Perhaps chew it over, while you eat your next meal from Aldi.
It is nonsensical to suggest, as some do, that the likes of VW and Bosch would allow the EU to put their continued success in peril.
As for ‘democracy’, this collection of recently communist and fascist states with the most important member currently being led by a former member of the East German Communist Party doesn’t and never has, understood the meaning of the word.
Agreed
Lock 13 sadly your thoughts are in line with an earlier post of mine – about apathy in ordinary folk but who are easily taken in with a good speech, rather than thinking for themselves and seeing the bigger picture. I do wonder about the intelligence of Joe Public, most read the Sun and could tell you the winner of Britains Got Talent, but when it comes to politics and a future being dictated by Brussels their eyes glaze over and switch over to the X Factor. Try asking anyone who votes to stay IN to explain why – there’ll be some interesting answers.
Incidentally, if the OUT’s do get the vote, then exiting from the EU can’t happen for at least 2 years !!
Love him or hate him, this is one powerful speech. Remember the enemy of my enemy is my friend, for now anyway….
What’s with the hat? I though Muslims couldn’t wear hats with brims. Didn’t Attaturk ban the fez and introduce flat caps because the brims stopped them touching the ground with their foreheads?
Finding myself on the same side as that duplicitous, grandstanding, traitorous sh*t Galloway, is a deeply unpleasant feeling. I do wonder exactly what he is up to with this. Could it be, in his devious mind, in some way connected to his mayoral ambitions? I really do hope the rest of the out campaigners distance themselves from him.
A great performance from Galloway.
Odious creep that he can be-he`s right on this one, so will bite my tongue.
Except for one thing.
At 7.30 or so he cites his internationalism. Honey words, list of BRIC type countries we now need to do business with…Iran, Brazil…the rest.
Do you think he`d ever be “internationalist” enough to cite Israel as a country he`d be happy to include in his list of ” sunrise countries we could do business with, instead of the sclerotic EU?
That`s MY test for him-but still, a great rabble-rousing , old school performance.
But until we excise the Jew baiting nastiness we know is in his DNA…it`ll have to remain a performance…albeit a good one.
But no sign of the ‘hundreds’ walking out as the BBC reported last night….
I agree, Galloway is subversive, it is entirely wrong to give him credibility merely because he claims to be in the Leave camp. He is bad news, he is dangerous, and the idea that he is a freedom loving democrat is perverse. He favours the enemies of our democracy and civilisation. Have nothing to do with him if you value your beliefs.
I saw an episode of ‘Porridge’ today from 1975. It was a BBC production.
How the BBC has changed.
Fletcher was reading a ‘girlie mag’ on his bunk. The insides of his locker doors were plastered with nude pin ups.
Today, the progressive BBC would refuse to consider this. Other than pin ups of nude…… (fill the gap yourself according to trend).
..
This is truly a troubling time for the country. Whether one is a conservative supporter or not, one has to admire and respect the enormous effort the PM put into the saga in Brussels. (Can you imagine what would have happened if Milipede had been representing us?) DC looked exhausted at the end of it all. It surely says something about the way the EU runs these summits that they go long into the night when folk are suffering from lack of sleep which is definitely the wrong time to make any momentous decisions or judgements. No wonder they can’t find solutions to their other problems. Poor DC was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t once he returned and much of that was down to the medja and the way folk are so quick to stick the knife in, in this country.
Obviously my previous post of a week or so ago was wrong when I dreamed he would not get a deal and come back and surprise us all by saying he would recommend we leave. Well, I can’t win ’em all! And I am happy to admit I was wrong. Today though I have struggled now with what to do – and probably a lot of other folk are the same.
It’s very similar to the Scottish referendum though on that score I had no trouble being a NO voter but one could not state that too loudly for various reasons!!! At that time it was a case of heart versus head. And this case is similar. Trouble is today, I’m not sure what my heart is saying and what my heads thinks it should do!
Before the deal, months ago, I used to think we should stay; then the more I learned, my head and heart were the same saying we should leave an undemocratic club which couldn’t organise a tea party, a club where the accounts have rarely been approved or passed and a club which seems as if it’s in its death throes already. We need to have control of our own country and its laws.
But if we vote to leave, there will be NO second choice as some have stated. That scenario was foreseen and written into the agreement I believe. If we vote NO, it is a leap into the dark, no doubt, but then we are a strong country and we have stood on our own in the past and survived.
If we vote YES, we could believe we would be safer, stronger etc, but what will happen when the EU eventually implodes and breaks up. Then where will we be and what would happen? It would not surprise me now if the other 27 member states start to grumble about the special status given to the UK. If they can have it, why can’t we…in Spain, Poland, and so on?
All I hope for now is that the debate that follows in the next few weeks and months will be fair and open and allow us to make a fair personal judgement in order to cast a vote where we as individuals are sure about what we think. That’s a lot to ask of our news and press!!! There are so many things wrong with staying in and also with staying out!
How do you make an informed decision?
Were you really taken in by Cameron’s BAFTA award winning performance?
Good grief!
Don’t forget GC & Soapbox, that Dave had been visiting many of the other leaders on their home patch first. He has delivered what he promised UKIP & the other Exiters – a Referendum. I don’t think he asked, at least publicly for a very good deal, and I don’t think what he has got is a very good deal. But at least he has delivered something.
The EU is thoroughly stuck in the 1940s. None of the other leaders, many of whom have had a chance to address the UK population via media soundbites, have shown any concern for the real key issues: EU modernisation, EU protectionism & what it costs everyone, the dodgy TTIP deal that could wreck the economy of the western/northern hemisphere world, the need for Free Movement of People to be matched by cancelling the UK’s EU contribution (indeed, offering a refund) in order to meet the infrastructure needs of additional migration, rescuing Greece & Cyprus while continuing to assist other recovering economies and the fact that a unilateral decision by one leader has caused the deaths of hundreds perhaps thousands of refugees and migrants and enticed millions to travel to Europe.
That is the real crisis. That is where the media should be putting a lot of its attention. The EU as configured is FAILING. And not one leader spoke to the reality of that in my hearing ie via the BBC R4.
If any reading this are living in EU countries and know better, please register and post information for us. It would be good to know if any of the present 27 leaders have any clear idea of what needs to be done, let alone a vision for the future of the EU. GC used the word ‘performance’. Very appropriate: it seems there is just an EU circus with the clowns and elephants leading each other round in a circle.
You write: “Don’t forget GC & Soapbox, that Dave had been visiting many of the other leaders on their home patch first. He has delivered what he promised UKIP & the other Exiters – a Referendum. I don’t think he asked, at least publicly for a very good deal, and I don’t think what he has got is a very good deal. But at least he has delivered something.”
That ‘something’ is a deceit. It is no better than a conman’s pitch to his intended victim. Cameron has calculatedly set out to neuter opposition to the EU, knowing that if he can win a referendum (and he can) we will be stuck with no way of getting out for yet more decades.
Had he not arranged a referendum, the pressure to quit would have become irresistible. What he has done is nothing more than a cheap conjuring trick – just as many of us would have expected from the spiv that he is.
I’m sorry Soapbox but Cameron behaved exactly how we knew he would, he achieved for the UK exactly what we knew he would (as near nothing that makes no difference). We also knew how the EU would play it, pretend to be tough then magnanimous as if they have given him a great deal whereas nothing has changed as we all knew it wouldn’t. Cameron put on an act, his EU comrades put on an act, everything was agreed in advance and all was choreographed. We, however, are left with nothing from it. I personally think Cameron should be arrested for treason and for lying to the British electorate.
By the way Soapbox, what ‘special status’ have we been granted?
I’m worried about this term “leap in the dark” that is being bandied about if we ‘go it alone’. For God’s sake, how did we survive before we signed up to the EEC then ? as I remember we all had jobs, food on the table, a decent NHS service, and we danced along to Abba ! hardly a purgatory existence.
in 1975, when the British people voted to enter the EEC, they were conned into voting ‘yes’ by Ted Heath and his Tory government, who lied shamelessly about what we were signing up for. It was sold to the British people as simply a trading agreement, so that we could do more business with other European countries. That was all. Nothing else.
Absolutely no mention was made of the fact that an unaccountable European government was going to be running our lives. Telling us what we could and could not do, ruining our industries, such as the British fishing industry which was destroyed by directives from the EU, and dictating to us what laws we had to have, how to run our affairs, and who we must allow into our country. If there had been, the vote would have been a resounding ‘No’.
I went along to vote with my Dad, but with differing views, so we cancelled each other out. I voted No, but Dad thought it was a good idea with a possible better future for his sons.
German TV news on ZDF, showing pictures of Farage and others, claimed that BREXIT had more emotional appeal to the British public than the status quo and that fear of leaving was Camerloon’s best way of infusing any emotional coviction into his case. A confirmation by realistic observers of the reason for deploying the barely credible “leap into the dark” shtick. The “leap into the dark” was giving up national independence, returning to normality is not a “leap unto the dark”.
What I find particularly galling is being accused of being a “little Englander” by EU apologists who want everyone to be a “no Englander”. Equally cretinous is the suggestion that leaving the EU shows some reawakening of “British imperialism”. Surely the point of dissolving empire was to allow self determination and create scores of states with national independence.
But people with these views are really motivated by the idea that states like Britain, France and Germany should be erssed from history because of their imperlialst/ colonialist/nazj past.
A similar experience although in my case it was my mother voting yes and me voting no and my father spoiling his ballot. That was my first vote and I have the unenviable record of never voting for a winning candidate since. Such, such were the joys! My horrible record makes me suspect that I’ll be on the losing side again this time, but I believe in prayer and the common sense of the people who must still have a desire to resist the Norman Yoke.
“in 1975, when the British people voted to enter the EEC,”
My place in pedant’s corner is assured so often….or should that be pedants’ corner…
In 75 no-one VOTED to enter the EEC, we were already IN.
The referendum we had was whether we stayed in or left.
The margin to stay was significant, but nobody knows or will ever know what would have been the result of a vote taken before we entered.
By not watching or listening to the BBC!
For example, Radio 5 broke into the sports reporting and went over to Downing Street to hear Camerons declaration of the date for the referendum. His first words in favour of remaining in the EU were about our “safety and security”, the now standard Project Fear approach. Radio 5 then had it’s political editor John Pienaar on to quickly analyse Cameron’s statement. Pienaar just repeated and amplified Project Fear by repeating Camerons’ stress on security and then found time to introduce the “rising threat” from President Putin! . Expect to hear more and more from Project Fear.
But laugh at it!
Pienaar’s politics on now R5. He’s interviewing Pritti Patel and making sure all the questions and discussion is nothing about the referendum issues but all about personalties and potential splits in the Govt. Very clever as Pritti has fallen for it.
Chris Grayling was smarter yesterday and to a similar line of questioning, simply ignored the questioners distracting line and always brought it straight back to the failures of the EU.
Try and listen to Norman Tebbitt’s contribution on R4 around 525 tonight. Masterly and said it all. Right to the heart of why Britain and England in particular is so very different in it’s attitude to government and freedom of the individual than any mainland European country.
It is so very simple. An Englishman is born free by virtue of his birthright. No king ,prince or governor bestows freedom upon him. This concept is alien to those in Europe and always has been. To them the opposite is true. Freedom is in the gift of a ruler. This difference is so fundamental that it overides any consideration of economics or security.
You either get this or you do not. If you do then voting to leave is mandatory. I need to hand on to my descendants that freedom that was handed down to me. It is my right and not open to discussion or negotiation.
Did so Dave S.
The great man sounded a bit frail-but made Carolyn Quinn sound like the callow dopey leftie that she is.
But-she had the good manners not to shout him down or unplug the line, like a Mair would have done.
Had she listened-she may have learned something.
Thatchers cabinet certainly had the best of men( Ridley, Tebbit, Lawson)…as well as the very worst( Baker, Heseltine, Channon).
Sir Lord Norm maybe the last great living Englishman…and his view on PM hopefully will inspire Gove-whose statement today was excellent.
So thanks Dave S-and thanks to the lad above who recommended Guido for Mr Goves great speech.
AS a teacher-always liked Mike…he really was hated by the schools and the left…so good for him.
If he keeps this up-I`ll pass over his prison nonsense….far too brainy for that!
Glad you found Norman Tebbitt inspiring. I agree that Gove is proving to be a serious man indeed. I had my doubts at one time. As for Boris that man is an inconsequential buffoon and I doubt whether he has a clue which course of action will further his career. So any course he takes can be discounted.
The liberal elite tend to be either thieves or fools.
Boris is a fool.
The likes of Tebbit, Gove ,Hoey et are flawed vessels…but in comparison to the rest of that Westminster crust of nasties and cowards…they`re giants.
Boris read Houllebecq and drew all the wrong lessons a few weeks ago-screwed up over Liverpoll, and is an adulterer who wants Turkey in the EU.
A comedy role in the Out campaign at best…and he`s now shown he`s a custard flambee , yellow as custard, in not telling Cameron to stick his deal….a spoonerism there eh?
What struck me most was the BBC reference and Donald Tusks remarks about ‘joining a Club’. It is definitely not a Club any one of us would want to join given the choice. It is more like the FIFA organisation where bigger ‘bungs’ are considered ‘normal’ and above the law of any country. It has never been called a ‘Club’ since the French originally decided we were not allowed to join (circa 1976?) – in case we tried to take spoil the fun and run it better than they can. We could run it better and that is why we will never have the power to do so. We can start our own Club and ignore the ‘UNIONISM’ which is really what the French based EI is all about. EU protectionism for failing economies hell bent on Socialism and Central planning and single currency.
Leaving the EU will have security implications apparently. There was me thinking the UK’s security had been secured by membership of NATO. Silly me, it was the EU all along.
This is a mistake made even by people who should know a great deal better. Even a seasoned hack like Alex Brummer writing in the Mail today waffles on about how the EU has preserved ‘the peace’.
Sadly, we are in for a great deal of this and much of it will come from the BBC.
If people come up with that argument, it is not a bad idea to remind them of an Act of War committed by agents of France against a vessel in the sovereign territory of a member of The Commonwealth, prior to the EU true, but while a member of the EEC/EC. Not many people remember the Rainbow Warrior.
Then you can remind them of Merkel throwing open the door of Germany last year and ask them “do you know when Germany got involved in a European military conflict, more or less unilaterally, while a member of the EU?” Remind them of Croatia.
Then there was the matter of France, while a member of the EEC/EC, testing a nuclear weapon when there was a Test Ban in place.
Did they offer Britain any help with Sierra Leone, our one most successful military venture of the last two decades or so? That was a successful peacemaking and peace preserving mission by, I think, the British alone. Remind them also of France selling Exocets to the Argentines in the early 1980s?
EU as peace-preservers and peacemakers? The record is a bit stained and blotchy.
Its all a bit rich this claim that EU has preserved the peace.
One of the most irresponsible actions to destabilize Europe in recent years has surely got to be the Fat Frau throwing open the gates of Europe to all comers. Sometimes I feel like I am a lone madman – Does not everyone see what a truly crap decision this was !
Claiming the EU has helped preserve the peace is a bit like saying Adolf Hitler did a lot of good work for the German/Jewish relations.
Or laud Jimmy Saville for all his charity works with children whilst at the same time knowing he is a serial sex offender -( Funny I think a certain organisation might have done this – who could it be I wonder ?)
Yes – ‘Vegetarians for Hitler’ has always had a somewhat hollow ring to it..
As far as I remember Iceland is one of those countries that support NATO and yet are not part of the EU. And again the EU is priming its own European response Army and is the REAL reason why our Armed forces are underfunded and being massively reduced in size. The new European Army will replace NATO – eventually- and take orders only from Brussels. It will also lead directly to a War with Russia as the new EU state socialism has huge expansionist plans well beyond Turkey. The threat of war is increased when we concede all power to Brussels. The EU will be direct threat to countries bordering Russia (the Ukraine is one such). At the same time as the UK does support NATO, the EU presses for overall disarmament (as does much of Europe with Socialist administrations, and they have greater say than we do). Rather like A ‘ponzi’ pyramid scheme. The EU has to expand to remain solvent by admitting more and more foreigners as low paid workers.
I am constantly amazed by the fools that claim the EU’s greatest achievement has been to stop war breaking out in Europe. NATO had nothing to do with this. The Iron Curtain had nothing to do with this. Hundreds of thousands of US and British military personnel based in Germany had nothing to do with this. The lack of a reason for war had nothing to do with it. A lack of an appetite for war and general prosperity had nothing to do with it.
All hail the EU, great peace bringers.
Trump wins and I do not think Al Beeb likes this , they are not happy bunnies .
“trump seems to be coated in Teflon and perma-tan” says one ‘soapy’ commentator on Al Beeb tv.
They don’t like it one bit …………..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-35624026
Same on Sky, Trumps win just mentioned in passing, they concentrated on Hilary’s win and a piece on Jeb Bush’s struggle with an interview where he callis Trump a bully…
Followed your link taffman, fairly restrained by usual Zurcher standards but he just can’t help himself can he? I’m sure he would be happier at the huffington post.
According to Al Beeb the Scottish people want independence from the most democratic country on this planet and then throw their ‘independence’ away by joining The European Union , which is not really democratic.
I would hazard a bet that all those Scottish servicemen that fought in WWI and WW2 would be rolling in their graves.
Are there any Scotsmen posting on this site who have an opinion ?
I…just might be a Scot. Very meek though, sir. Not one to get belligerent and ugly. Not my style, no sir.
My great grandfather fought at the Somme, and grandfather at the Normandy Landings, but it was the inescapable threat of conscription that snared them and pushed them to volunteer; not a patriotic sense of duty. They fought hard, hated the army, and I can say without a doubt that my grandfather never spoke of it to his family, and have heard that his father was the same.
Both of them would laugh at this whole sorry state of affairs, presumably especially my great grandfather if you told him that Britain was the most democratic country on earth.
Your familys conscription experience was probably played out in many homes across the country, a more realistic and accurate recounting than wartime propaganda would have us believe. But ultimately a pressed British man would fight harder for the nation than a euro defence force volunteer. Stripped of a credible independent defence and reliant on other member states to provide security is where continued EU membership would lead.
Quite. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, and all that.
But then there’s the Nuke. We have it. No need to elaborate further.
Anyway. Something just came to mind that I recall from Graham Greene’s 1943 entertainment novel ‘Ministry of Fear’. You’ll like it. Just let me find the bit, where Rowe is Digby….here we are:
—————————————
This morning as he was reading Johns came in for a chat, and Digby looking up from the paper asked, “What’s a Fifth Column?”
There was nothing Johns liked better than giving information. He talked for quite a while, bringing in Napoleon.
“In other words people in enemy pay?” Digby said. “That’s nothing new.”
“There’s this difference,” Johns said. “In the last war — except for Irishmen like Casement — the pay was always cash. Only a certain class was attracted. In this war there are all sorts of ideologies. The man who thinks gold is evil. . . He’s naturally attracted to the German economic system. And the men who for years have talked against nationalism. . . well, they are seeing all the old national boundaries obliterated. Pan-Europe. Perhaps not quite in the way they meant. Napoleon too appealed to idealists.” His glasses twinkled in the morning sun with the joys of instruction. “When you come to think of it, Napoleon was beaten by the little men, the materialists. Shopkeepers and peasants. People who couldn’t see beyond their counter or their field. They’d eaten their lunch under that hedge all their life and they meant to go on doing it. So Napoleon went to St Helena.”
“You don’t sound a convinced patriot yourself,” Digby said.
“Oh, but I am,” Johns said earnestly. “I’m a little man too. My father’s a chemist, and how he hates all these German medicines that were flooding the market. I’m like him. I’d rather stick to Burroughs and Wellcome than all the Bayers. . .” He went on, “All the same, the other does represent a mood. It’s we who are the materialists. The scrapping of all the old boundaries, the new economic ideas. . . the hugeness of the dream. It is attractive to men who are not tied to a particular village or town they don’t want to see scrapped. People with unhappy childhoods, progressive people who learn Esperanto, vegetarians who don’t like shedding blood.”
“But Hitler seems to be shedding plenty.”
“Yes, but the idealists don’t see blood like you and I do. They aren’t materialists. It’s all statistics to them.”
WE had to endure yet more of Sturgeon on BBC today. Why is this woman continually given undeserved media exposure?
If the SNP are stupid enough to engineer another Scottish referendum after a Brexit vote I’d love to hear how they will explain away some uncomfortable truths. With much reduced oil tax revenues and the offshore oil industry effectively finished off by cheap oil, how are they going to fill their £7 billion budgetary black hole? This was glossed over in the first referendum by insanely optimistic oil price forecasts. No chance of that this time. On top of this they will lose the subsidy they get from English taxpayers under the Barnett formula. The SNP would have to put up scottish taxes massively just to preserve the status quo on their expenditure, and the socialist nirvana they seek will be gone for ever. In addition, with Scottish independence and their EU membership ( if its ever granted) there will be a customs border with England and all Scottish goods may face a tariff if the EU denies the UK a trade deal post Brexit. We can also end free movement of Scots into the UK and ban them from receiving welfare benefits if they try to emigrate to England. Just bring it on!
Seems about right. If Scotland can charge English students for higher education, then why not England deny Scots something. And a lot of folk do seem to forget that membership of the EU isn’t guaranteed for Scotland. I would presume the £7 billion black hole will be filled with borrowing. It’s an intimidating state of affairs however you look at it, thanks to the overall UK debt being around £1.4 Trillion, and Scotland’s share of that being around £120 Billion.
I’m no SNP fan, btw, but many in Scotland see the Barnett formula as a bad thing, as market-based economics have been introduced into English public-service provision, with PPP, PFI and privatisation, meaning direct-receipt of payment from the public, and less taken from the treasury. This means that keeping the Barnett formula – which is taking the money spent in England on services and allocating an equivalent percentage (based on population and devolved service provision) to the Scottish Government – causes a drop in the funding due to the Scottish Government.
I would think that Northern Ireland would be the one to sorely miss the formula, not Scotland. Have you seen how much they get out of it?
An “independent” Scotland, if it wanted to join the EU, would have to join the Euro. I cannot see that being a vote winner.
Scotland could stand on its own two feet as an independent nation, but it could not support the socialist fantasies of the SNP. The chimera of oil wealth has been stripped away. If the Scottish National Socialist Party spent money the way they want to, Scotland would end up exactly like Venezuela or any other bankrupt oil state.
Taffman, one of the many reasons I voted NO was that I could not understand why anyone would want to vote for ‘independence’ from Westminster but want to be ruled by Brussels. It made no sense then, it makes no sense now. (31 years service in the RAF has perhaps given me a wider world view than some of my fellow countrymen, as Auntie Liz has sent me on trips which have allowed me to see tin-pot dictatorships and undemocratic hell holes in close-up)
Like many up here, I am a ‘shy’ voter. The whole point of a secret ballot is to allow the voters to express their own opinion (bloc-voting postal vote communities aside, obviously).
My favourite answer to an exit poll question, ‘How did you vote?’, remains, ‘By secret ballot’.
Grandfather on mother’s side Black Watch – Battle of Loos – lost right arm
Grandfather on father’s side Royal Artillery – POW 1917 – lost all teeth due to diet
Father – Merchant Navy Radio Officer 1939 – 1943 North Atlantic – torpedoed twice – Missing presumed dead letter sent to his parents before turning up in Newfoundland.
All proud Scots who fought under the Union Flag.
They all would be spinning in their graves, although I genuinely think these generations could not understand the lefty mentality driving us to our own self destruction.
As far as us Scots so, I gave up when the SNP bulldozed into the referendum with such clearly flawed policies on basically everything, and yet the masses lapped it up.
Yet in the upcoming Euro referendum, every other political party has a mixture of views and has MP’s on both sides of the debate. Except the Communist SNP where all MP’s, MSP’s and local councillors without exception are voting IN.
This vote probably will be close, and if we vote to leave narrowly, Sturgeon et al will see this as a perfect chance for more mischief and trouble.
Needless to say this referendum will be another ‘neverendum’ if we don’t vote to stay.
In both Scotland and the UK.
The cuts at the BBC are continuing to bite.
http://tradingaswdr.blogspot.sg/2016/02/no-self-doubt.html?
Clearly. You hum it, I’ll play it…