After Trump’s strike on Assad the BBC contacted Peter Ford, a former British ambassador to Syria, and led with his views on many news bulletins today…that the gas attack was a false flag operation by Jihadis….without telling us that he is ‘a vocal critic of UK policy in Syria’ who also happily appears on RT with the Iran stooge George Galloway….how the hell did this guy get to be a British Ambassador?…why did the BBC give his views so much airtime when, as in the interview above, it is acknowledged that his views chimed with Russia’s, but otherwise remained unchallenged?…The BBC also gave the views of Tory Crispin Blunt, that it was illogical for Assad to do this, a high profile….never mind that it was almost impossible for IS to have done it….
If the operation was an IS false flag operation how did they manage to get hold of nerve agent? Next to impossible for them to do so…and did they then bomb the hospitals and aid centres immediately after the gas attack? They don’t have aircraft so who did that? Good that the BBC interviewer not raise such awkward questions.
The DM has pointed out that the detritus from one damaged aircraft shelter in Syria mirrors exactly the barrels in a Russian chemical warfare propaganda film.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4392138/Is-proof-Assad-DID-launch-chemical-weapon-attacks.html
I saw those pictures too Pounce. Maybe they are some sort of way of storing two relatively inert chemicals that combine to form a chemical weapon. But without being an expert on military ordnance who really knows what they are? I am sure our BBC will have an opinion.
Unfortunately with the BBC, I now never know what to believe. They certainly were quick to jump to conclusions on the original false WMD allegations on Saddam Hussein so whatever they will say, I tend to take with a large pinch of salt.
Their credibility as a reliable news organisation long since surrendered for a bloated and never ending budget – providing they stick to the liberal song sheet they have been given by the cabal of discredited politicians who have been complicit with the same media in destroying the harmony of our once united country.
As regards Assad – He definitely is an evil bastard. And probably in the long term he should go. But to replace him with what? The only person who can hold a country like Syria together is another Assad. And even assuming he did launch chemical strikes – morally is he any worse than a media which pretty much ignored the ethnic cleansing and murder of the Yazdis, Christians and other groups by the so called “moderate” anti Assad forces as much as ISIS.
I dont know. I suspect the real reason why there is so much huffing and puffing regarding deaths by chemical weapons is because this sort of warfare emphasis es how much our own liberal “democracies” are vulnerable to these sorts of weapons. And the more we import members of the arabian death cult into our society the more likelihood that there will be a minority of focused individuals who will bring such acts to our society.
The stark truth is. If we had truly wanted to save lives in Syria. from the beginning we would not have interfered in the first place. Unfortunatly we were dragged into a war probably under the malign influence of the Saudis and also due to a naive hope from the liberals that we could impose some sort of progessive caring democracy on an unreconstructed culture that have been slitting each others throats for eons. This has probably also played into the hands of globalists like Soros, whos causes thrive on turmoil as war it encourages population shifts and instability within western cultures.
The question is now we have opened it can we put the lid back on Pandoras box? I certainly hope so. But until the West starts asking hard questions rather than just focusing and emoting on dead babies then nothing will change and there will end up being more dead babies than less.
Excellent summary, Oaknash.
I don’t have any problem with the BBC interviewing Peter Ford, or if they interviewed George Galloway. The ‘other side’- the establishment’s enthusiasts for war and Saudi stooges – receive 90%+ of the (uncritical) coverage. It is a pity this occasional airtime for dissenting voices does not extend to topics like Global Warming, Immigration, Brexitphobia and so on.
At least no BBC stringers were picking out their fave shirt to carry a relative around for the cameras.
I don’t think it entirely matters whether or not Assad was behind the latest attack (the Americans seem to reckon that they have convincing evidence that he was). Like Charles I, he has made war on his own people, solely to maintain his grip on power. Like Kim Jong Un, he is a king in a nominal republic. I don’t know what the solution to Syria is, but it definitely includes removing Assad, excluding Iran, Lebanon and Turkey and crushing isis, al qaeda and every other faction of the religion of Peace. Assad could go into exile in Moscow and the Russians could keep their warm-water base in the Med, if it makes them happy.
Wars can be brought to a successful conclusion. It’s been done before. With peace restored in Syria, all the “Syrian refugees” in Western Europe can be invited to return home.
Owen, you condemn the christians and other non Muslim faiths to a very dangerous future if Assad is removed. The West instigated most of the turmoil in the Middle East with their rose tinted vision of the so called Arab spring and prior to that Iraq. Do you honestly believe a stable democratically elected government would replace Assad – maybe after 20+ years of further blood letting by the various “rebel” factions with plenty of old scores to settle and it would be the innocent civilians that will continue to bare the brunt.
Owen, you make a mistake there. Assad has not made war on his own people.
Some, repeat SOME of his people have made war on him. They are a minority in total and are said to number over one hundred different groups, some of them are from outside Syria.
There are probably a majority of Syrians who are either quite happy with Assad or are prepared to go along peaceably with his rule.
“As regards Assad – He definitely is an evil bastard.”
Really? The Assad family have been in power in Syria since the 1970s and there has been no major criticism of his regime until the civil war, apart from his anti Israel stance.
His country was a shining example of differing faiths being able to live together regardless of the usual hotheads from the Sunni Muslim side.
I would argue that what we see as ‘evil’ is simply the only way Jihadis can be effectively controlled and suppressed.
The country was destabilised by the injection of ISIS by Saudi Arabia, and the inept worst president the US has ever seen – Obama, who snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by pulling out of Iraq too soon. This enabled ISIS to establish themselves in Iraq as well as Syria with disastrous consequences.
I agree.
I’m cautious of claims of civilian casualties in areas controlled by ISIS, al Nusra, Hamas etc.
Are there civilian casualties? Yes, because one can see that children have been injured or killed. However, the sad reality is that all the above Freedom Fighters that the West loves, are guilty of the most heinous acts – slow beheading, crucifixions, burnings etc, watched by a civilian crowd that lives among them.
Would such people, store their armaments, chemical or explosives, fire from schools and hospitals, knowing full well that they can exploit civilian casualties? I think they do so as a norm.
What about the civilians? Did these civilians volunteer to stay with the Jihadis as a civilian support. Are they civilian Jihadis, in doctrinal agreement with Jihadis, for keeping arms and explosives in schools and hospitals, as it deters the enemy from targeting those sites, and if targeted, get good propaganda out of it. In short, do Jihadis and their civilian support infrastructure, abide by the Geneva code.
If you ask the Israelis, they will say “No”.
As most of the so called “rebels” do not wear uniforms then it’s easy for the likes of the BBC to report 70+ civilian deaths during the alleged chemical attack. There again if the “rebels” instigated the release of gas then they would have had prior knowledge and made themselves scarce – it would be interesting to know if there was any “rebel” casualties from this incident.
Remember the battle for Palmyra last year? West & East of that city divided between nominally pro Assad (more likely pro-peace!) and those who were anti-Assad. The BBC were caught out being a bit naughty with their attributions.
I remember one, from a headmaster or headmistress, that was very much dressed up as ‘civilians being attacked by Assad’. Later we learn, when the clip was re-used and other questions asked that the ‘civilians’ were more correctly ‘rebels’ if not actual fighters or terrorists.
Later, the BBC switched to describing them not as civilians ‘caught up in the battle for the city’ but correctly as rebels.
A good summing up, thoughtful. As FH points out, the “arab spring” was a disaster. Syria under Assad was peaceful and all faiths co-existed. Funnily enough, it was the same under Saddam. After his removal, Obama stupidly pulled out before the west’s cock-up had been completely rectified. Egypt is not the same after Mubarak’s removal. Albeit under military rule it is better than under the muslim brotherhood. Libya? Definitely better under Qaddafi. And look at the knock-on effect in Niger et al…….
‘The Assad family have been in power in Syria since the 1970s and there has been no major criticism of his regime until the civil war, apart from his anti Israel stance.’
Anybody who believes this comment is very ignorant in respect of Syrian history:—
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Syria
I do hope that when the Western allies and rebels in Syria replace Assad, someone is there to protect the Christians from Islamic slaughter whilst a democratic constitution is set up with provisions for a four year Presidential election determined by an electoral college.
Meanwhile, I am puzzled by every aspect of this case. Still, there is nothing like pictures of dead children to motivate politicians, especially when their corpses look so white, as in fresh from the fridge
Forgive my cynicism at this stage I have lived too long
GWF, you make a very good point “especially when their corpses look so white, as in fresh from the fridge.” and when it is claimed from the outset that it was a Sarin attack which does not. I have been told that does not leave very small children with a healthy roseate colour, either, as portrayed on the BBC web-site. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39495413. Tends to turn complexions of older people blue very quickly, as well. See photo of workers in bio hazard suits, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39500947
There are some ‘funny’ things going on. I share your cynicism.
I think Assad would like Syria to return to democracy. Yes, I know he ran ‘a regime’. Were there not elections in Syria? Those wretched voters, always going after populist candidates like Assad. Someone who could arrange for people of very different faiths – that might be hostile to each other elsewhere on this planet – to (mostly) live peaceably together and enjoy education, culture and a very slowly increasing prosperity. All upset, if general information available on the Internet is correct, by Islamists and internal struggles between Kurds and Arabs. All with the pot possibly being stirred by outsiders.
It’s a mess.
Come on Trump and Putin: get it stopped.
UP2snuff
Add to the white looking corpses an unconfirmed story of children recently abducted by Isis from their village.
Dispatched to the fridge, so I hear.
You my have noticed an earlier post of mine where the brave White Helments were handling the children’s corpses without wearing safety gloves. They should have died after 15 minutes exposure to sarin.
This war is not being conducted by either side according to the rules of cricket
More on my point about the so called victims of chemical wepopons being
villagers kidnapped by Al Quieda and planted by the White Helmets.
This whole WMD scenario is beginning to stink
G.W.F
A few points about the above story:
1) Casualties were taken and treated straight away to a Turkish hospital. The Turks verified, that Sarin was used in the attack.
2) Sarin is a non persistent nerve agent . There are two type Non and Persistent. Sarin is a volatile liquid at room temperature and will quickly evaporate. The reason for NP agents is it allows follow up troops to quickly over ran an area which has been hit. The area was hit early morning, looking at the white helmet video and the shadows under the vehicles I would say that is around midday hours later. Which means that the vast majority of the liquid will have sublimated and evaporated
Here is a little more info.
Click to access 25%20Nerve%20Agents.pdf
And here is a picture of the dead with no visible injures
Muhammad, field coordinator of Alrahama Hospital in Khan Sheikhoun, which is in the Idlib governate, told Fox News that their rooms were flooded with some 200 locals young and old – some with pinpoint pupils,
Take note of that pin-pointed pupils part. Ask any ex squaddy what they are taught about the symptoms of nerve agent poisoning.
Finally here is an actual video taken not long after the attack
I can assure you there is no faking that
Thanks Pounce, excellent response
Pounce, thanks for info. Do I recall correctly that Sarin CANNOT be delivered by bomb or missile? It has to be via shell or dropped canister or dispersed from a vehicle or aircraft (fixed wing or other) similar to a crop sprayer? Is that right?
There are other nerve agents and gases, are there not? Can you suggest what might have produced the symptoms visible in the photos of children? Could they have simply been over-oxygenated, accidentally, as part of their treatment?
The problem we all have now, around the world, is that every combatant group is aware of PR and will seek to promote their cause via the media, even to the point of creating publicity via ‘false flag’ attacks. Our national broadcaster should be the one we could rely on to get the truth, yet we have evidence that it manipulates the truth creating doubt among wiser heads than those at the BBC who are only just recognising there is a thing as FakeNews and, even, FalseNews.
The Turks certainly CLAIM to have verified it as a Sarin attack. The children in other photos did not appear to be displaying Sarin symptoms as I have posted elsewhere. They would be dead and blue, not pink and alive and were wide-eyed with dilated pupils. This is the photograph that I referred to in another post as the one that I thought had been on the BBC web-site but quickly taken down.
Does anyone have any recollection or evidence of that display of the photo on the BBC w/s?
Come on Trump and Putin: get it stopped.
I’m absolutely convinced that it was Putin who ordered the gas attack!
The ONLY reason the West wants to replace Assad is because the Arab league wants a different decision on the gas pipeline through Syria.
We know our leaders are wholly compromised by Saudi bribes and will do what ever they are told if they think they can get away with it.
Only reason, Thoughtful? I can think of another. They want control over Israel. There may be other reasons, too, not least that Islam is wholly incompatible with Western liberal life-styles and to avoid serious conflict there will have to be a ‘buy off’.
G.W.E
I’m sad to say, that democratic pluralism does not work in an Islamic country. It will inevitably lead to a Sharia state, with no freedom for religious minorities, followed by persecution, burning and bombed churches, and finally, the eviction of Christians, and other religious minorities.
Remember the Arab Spring – all the hopes of Western media for pluralism, free press, religious freedom etc etc in Egypt, the most advanced Arab country. All in the hope that Islam is like every other religion – like Christianity specifically. It didn’t work out, despite the best efforts of the West to pretend that democracy was working. It was working, in the way Muslims meant it to work, but not the way the West imagined it might. Churches burnt or bombed. No permission to rebuild or repair etc – standard Sharia.
The best one hope for in a Muslim majority country, is a strong dictator who does the best for the country, applies law and order vigorously, and protects all the people from bigots.
That is the best one can realistically hope for till Islam reforms.
Well it seems clear that to make any country – with a significant number of Muslims – into a civilised place to live, unfortunately the only way to do it is with some form of brutal dictatorship.
However much the thought might offend our gentle western values, we have surely seen enough brutal dictators deposed and replaced with something far worse by now to see the pattern? Libya, Iraq and now Syria have all been destroyed by the feeble-minded left encouraging the replacement of admittedly unpleasant governments with fanciful western-style democracies.
If there is only one lesson to be learnt from the past decade, surely this is it?
While I would not have held a candle for Saddam, Gaddafi or Assad; they did provide a culture where the people could go about their lives in relative peace and with the force of law mostly keeping order. No more.
Well said. Leave ’em to it. The entire region isn’t worth a single drop of Western aviation fuel.
You make a good, realistic world point.
I hold no brief for Assad, manchesterlad, but of those three you list in your final para above, the UK had a previously good relationship with Basser al-Ashad.
If I recall correctly, he trained and worked in the UK and married a British woman. No-one in the UK cosied up to Saddam Hussein. At all. Blair tried to get pally with Gaddafi and appeared to have built some sort of rapport with him. Cameron did not share in that obviously.
Something went wrong in that relationship between the UK and Assad. I do not recall the BBC ever investigating that as a news organisation stuffed with so-called journalists or even bother to mention it from time to time.
Something went wrong in that relationship between the UK and Assad. I do not recall the BBC ever investigating that as a news organisation stuffed with so-called journalists or even bother to mention it from time to time.
Gas pipeline to Europe from the Gulf states. It snookers potential Russian oil/gas blackmail of Europe.
Wouldn’t disagree with that, NC, but M-E oil, while essential, is a whole lot less essential than it used to be. Middle eastern gas (and from elsewhere) is essential at present but may soon fade slightly in significance when fracking eventually gets underway.
“Libya, Iraq and now Syria have all been destroyed by the feeble-minded left”
No, they have been destroyed by corrupt politicians taking bribes from the oil rich Sunni Muslim Arab league countries led by Saudi Arabia. In every single one of the countries you mention Saudi et al had a vested interest in the West either removing the leaders, or destroying their military capabilities.
Don’t forget Two Republican Presidents attacked Iraq hardly feeble minded Lefties
That’s another reason, Thoughtful. Yes, that is a factor.
What about Indonesian money? Lots of oil and gas there. Also Muslim. 200m+! Also Sunni with variations. Also seeing its hegemony slip toward ASEAN countries recovering from Communism and with potential for economic growth above that of Indonesia.
I am very disappointed to see that Trump seems to have been bullied by the left into taking their typical hate-filled, emotionally-led, war-mongering actions without any clear objective.
I did think he was better than that, but I suppose months of harassment by the media and the left has beaten him down.
It would not be suprising if it was a bit more than ‘bullying’. Possibly the state security apparatus behind the scenes has suggested it could reduce the campaign to undermine him if he is a bit more ‘co-operative’ in foreign policy matters.
Sorry can’t agree with that. I would say he is acting on events and showing that he can be objective and reactive rather than being the ‘puppy dog’ of any particular faction
(or indeed Media outlet).
Well of course none of us know what intelligence information Trump has seen to make him take this action. However, it certainly seems to me that the ‘fog of war’ at least would make such quick condemnation of Assad as the perpetrator unwise, to say the least.
I do not think Assad had anything to gain by such an attack.
On the other hand, the Islamic ‘rebels’ have clearly had plenty to gain from this. I would think it highly likely they would poison prisoners with nerve agents (kidnapped especially for the purpose maybe) and dump them in the area. They have no concept of morality that we would recognise and would have no qualms whatsoever about this – especially as they are clearly on the defensive from Assad’s forces now.
I guess Paul Watson’s arguments are less acceptable now that Trump supporters are maintaining that a) he has access to information we don’t have about Assad’s WMD (oops wrong war) and b) it was necessary for Trump to demonstrate he is not in the pockets of the Russians.
The video is worth watching. God help the Christians if Sadam (ooops Assad) is removed.
GWF, I think most of the Christians have gone from areas that have been overwhelmed and/or controlled for a period by Jihadist or Islamist groups. There are some around Damascus. My friend’s sister is still there, I think, right now. There are Jews in Damascus as well. Under Assad’s umbrella they are relatively safe. Some other mutual friends here in the UK were shown mobile phone pics of life in Damascus, received via the sisters, and were astonished ‘at how normal life is there’ (their words to me) in the Assad controlled capital.
The potential problem is not ‘after Assad’ in Syria but Lebanon and Jordan.
The latter was already swamped with refugees from the second Iraq war, many of them Christians and is a relatively stable nation with a ‘real world’ leadership perspective. They are struggling with the number of refugees, increased vastly by the conflict in Syria.
Lebanon is still trying to come to terms with peace after years of Civil War and is awash with weapons in the hands of families, war-lords, ‘special interest groups’ and gangsters. A stable Syria is a measure of glue that holds Lebanon and Jordan – an arc of potential trouble – together in a fragile peace.
The West has neglected peacemaking or even deliberately stirred up trouble in Syria without thinking about world-wide implications.
Now, reality is really biting them.
Perhaps it is all being done deliberately with a perverse desire of some (many?) in the West to undermine and destabilise and threaten Israel?
Paul Joseph Watson, as usual, argues his points well. Some of what he says is unarguable, such as getting rid of these dictators has always led to something far worse and more frightening afterwards. Also he’s right that Trump’s u-turns on Syria look decidedly dodgy.
What I’m not sure about though is who was responsible for the chemical attack. PJW may be right that the rebels have a stock of WMDs but do they have a delivery system that could make them work? Do they have aeroplanes? I don’t think so.
He said that it would be stupid for Assad to attack his own people in this way. Possibly. But as the American officials say they are no longer planning for regime change and the Russians, no doubt, have told him they will stick with him come-what-may, this may have emboldened him to commit this attack. I assume these weapons were Saddam’s that he quickly passed to Syria for safe keeping once the weapons inspectors went into Iraq. Assad obviously could now use them once Saddam was killed.
I don’t know who committed the atrocity. I still feel Assad is the more plausible as I can’t see how the rebels could carry it out, however some of PJW’s arguments are equally logical and plausible.
All I am certain of is that this will help ISIS and other evil groups who want to slaughter as many people, particularly non-Muslims, as possible. My first instincts were that Trump was right to have a limited raid to remind Assad not to commit these acts – I’m not so sure now.
One other thing, Trump was attacked by the MSM for not warning the Russians to get out of the attack zone. Now they’ve learned that he did warn them they are criticising him for that too. If he hadn’t have done anything he would have been wrong, as he did something he is still wrong. Those leftards are hypocritical ba*tards.
Demon “What I’m not sure about though is who was responsible for the chemical attack. PJW may be right that the rebels have a stock of WMDs but do they have a delivery system that could make them work? Do they have aeroplanes? I don’t think so.”
Think some rebel groups have aircraft either fixed wing or helicopters. Our great news organisations such as the BBC appear to have completely forgotten that in war, opposition weapons as well as soldiers get captured, and the weapons used by the captors from then on. It’s highly likely that with all sorts of people going to Syria to fight with different groups that some may be pilots and technicians. The Fog of War appears to have completely fogged the BBC journalists’ minds.
As I understand it, you do not need aircraft to deliver chemical weapons or gas. A lorry or van or ‘technical’ (Toyota flat bed) will do the job quite effectively under the right weather conditions. Some chemical weapons can be loaded into shells and fired from mortars or artillery in WW1 style.
A good report by Paul Watson. (I wish he’d pause between statements, though….) Trump DOES appear to have made a foolish mistake…. Only hope he patches it up with Putin……
But, if he informed Putin first, possibly he was using the attack to ward off the left……? And no EAL collateral damage done to Putin’s Syrian campaign….
One can but hope.
Last night I flicked through BBC Sky and Fox news at six o’clock. The obvious new news was the terrorist attack in Sweden or rather the evil truck attack!
Sky led with this attack Fox was about Syria but very balanced, the BBC spent from six till six fifteen ( which is an eon for one news story ) on the Syria attack giving airspace for the Russian viewpoint and then the viewpoint of an Assad apparatchik both of course attacking Trump.. truly sickening to watch.
Alan and everybody else who assumes that the evil bastard Assad dropped the gas on his own people. Are you sure about this? If the Americans were 100% sure that this was the case and they have the proof , then they were correct in what they did. BUT for once the BBC is RIGHT
in allowing critics of Trump to discuss their concern. WE all make facetious comments about the biased BBC on this website. I as much as anybody. This terrible topic needs to be thought through, without leaving our brains at the door, as the ex ambassador said.
I happened to see, I am sure a fake video yesterday of ISIL setting off the gas explosions
in Khan Sheikhoun. After the explosion people are seen falling down trying to run away. I reiterate I believe this video is a fake. BUT for the life of me I cannot see why Assad
would do this, for what reason?
Foscari
Unfortunately the BBC has nothing but criticism of President Trump… nothing positive, so I do make the BBC wrong as it is clear bias.
Pres Assad is the one leader in the ME that allows all people to practice their faith freely. It is in Syria alone that Christians of all denominations, as well as Druze, and others, can practice their faith openly and without fear. If he is disposed because the USA is once again in alliance with al Qaeda satellites, or ISIS offsprings, then I fear for Christians in Syria. They will be massacred and driven out of Syria, as they have from everywhere else in the ME.
Pres Assad was winning the war. He had no reason to use chemical weapons, knowing full well that it would invite American attack.
Just a couple of days prior, the Trump administration had announced that the removal of Assad was upto the Syrian people. So, despite all this, Pres Assad decided immediately after the announcement, to use chemical weapons, and assure an American response.
It beyond belief. Way way beyond belief.
What I believe is happening is that a certain faction in the WH, is opposed to Steve Bannon’s attempt to take down the Deep State. This faction at present has the ear of the president.
By using Pres Trump to attack Syria, they have effectively captured him. Pres Trump is now a prisoner/hostage in the Deep State. If his approval ratings start to go up, he might like to stay a prisoner.
NCBBC – good comments. A similar situation prevailed in Iraq with regards to religious freedom. During the first Iraq war, Christmas trees and lights were prominent in the streets of Baghdad. Meanwhile, British and American servicemen serving in Saudi Arabia had to celebrate Christmas in their tents and behind closed doors, in case their hosts were ‘offended’.
P.S. Don’t forget that there is religious freedom in Israel, the only country in the Middle East where the number of Christians has actually increased during the past 60 years.
Ian Rushlow
Yes indeed – Israel is one country that Christians can live and practice their faith. But then, I don’t regard Israel as a ME country. Its a Western country , geographically located in the ME.
For anyone who needed it, this week’s horrific chemical airstrike on civilians in Northern Syria provided a jarring reminder of the merciless realities that prevail throughout the Arab world — and of the fate Israel and her citizens would be subject to, were it not for the military might of the IDF.
Brutal bestiality of Hobbesian anarchy
Of course, apart from the means used to perpetrate the latest atrocity, there was nothing really exceptional about it. According to the latest estimates, only a few dozen people (100-150) were killed, a mere fraction of one percent of the fatalities incurred in the ongoing Syrian civil war, in which hundreds of thousands have been slaughtered with unspeakable brutality (beheadings, immolations, disembowelments, dismemberments…).
But, of course, such barbarism is not confined to the Syrian theater. Across virtually all the Arab (Muslim) world, bloodcurdling waves of indiscriminate killings have repeatedly ravaged entire countries. As the perversely named “Arab Spring” dramatically underscored, nowhere else is the brutal bestiality of Hobbesian anarchy — as the natural state of the human condition — more vividly demonstrated than in the Arab (Muslim) world….. https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/04/07/the-horrors-at-hand/
One possible scenario
Since the fall of the Warsaw pact and the USSR, NATO has been looking for an enemy. The Military Industrial Complex in the USA needs one too. 9/11 provided one justification. But a disparate group of Islamic nations does not provide a proper antagonist.
So its ” Back to the USSR”.
Russia has always been the bugbear of NATO, despite its now being a traditional Christian values country.
Russia gets most of its earnings from oil and gas exports to Europe. This makes Russia a key player in Germany’s industrial success. Simultaneously, there is plenty of oil and gas in the Gulf states. There is just one problem – Syria is in the way. Syria, supported by Russia for obvious reasons, will not allow an oil/gas pipeline. If Syria falls to the Jihadis, and then incorporated into Saudi Arabia, a long term of goal of Saudi Arabia, then Russia is snookered.
Thus, I dont see Russia betraying Assad. And I mean “betrayed”, as his fall will assure the destruction of whatever remains of Middle Eastern Christianity. If history is any guide, we in the West will not be there for them. They will be forgotten, and wiped from the news..
This airstrike by the US on Syria, serves no purpose other then alleviate Pres Trump’s difficulties of “Russian collusion”, with the Deep State – CIA, NSA, FBI and 13 or 14 other agencies, as well as the LeftLib establishment.
“Since the fall of the Warsaw pact and the USSR, NATO has been looking for an enemy. The Military Industrial Complex in the USA needs one too. 9/11 provided one justification. But a disparate group of Islamic nations does not provide a proper antagonist.”
I’d beg to differ, if that was true, how come everybody in the west have shrunk military spending . The British have removed nearly all their troops from Germany, we have only 140 tanks no aircraft carriers . Its the same elsewhere, why do you think Germany got the tanks it sold to Turkey,Greece,Canada, Chile,Indonesia,Finland,Poland, Singapore, at the end of the cold war it had 2000 leopard 2 tanks today it has 244.
As for using 9/11 as a reason to increase military spending , yes spending did increase, but it was for stuff we didn’t have: MRAP vehicles, body armour UAVs all purchased from non traditional sources and not the usual suspects.
“This airstrike by the US on Syria, serves no purpose other then alleviate Pres Trump’s difficulties of “Russian collusion”, with the Deep State – CIA, NSA, FBI and 13 or 14 other agencies, as well as the LeftLib establishment.”
So your saying in this age of open transparency, wiki leaks and such that this is all a much bigger version of …..look squirrel.
Pounce
You are right that Europe has decreased its military spending. But the main thrust of Western military effectiveness comes from the USA. Here, military spending has not been reduced. I would think it has gone up, if one considers the average over a 20 year period.
No wonder the Americans are miffed.
As for the other stuff – I dont know. Maybe even Wikileaks does not know just yet. Caution is advisable in an era of photoshop, false IP address trails, false satellite images, and what not.
Like in any good crime fiction story, the detective hero asks- “who stands to gain”. I don’t believe Assad stands to gain. Unless he is incredibly stupid, or there is a rogue element in the Syrian armed forces.
“Here, military spending has not been reduced.”
Actually it has, yes it increased after 2001 but those costs came about from invading Iraq and Afghanistan and the subsequent operations there. But whilst everybody concentrates on spending , maybe we should be looking at how that money is been spent and then when we do, you can see that actually a lot of that rise is down to politician micro managing :
F22 originally ordered 750, then 648, then 339 then 277 then they cut the program at 183 those political cuts saw a $150 Million plane cost $412 million.
Its the same with the B2, 132 planned, 21 built. The Zumwalt destroyer 32 planned , finished with 2 so those 2 ships cost $7.5 billion each.
Even something as small as a uniform adds costs, in 2010 the US navy replaced its entire working uniform, it is currently replacing it with something different. The US army changed its uniform from 2002 with everybody changed by 2010 , now it is changing again (to what the Brits wear)
All this costs money and doesn’t really make a military that much more effective, other than make some bloke rich.
I think the expression pound foolish , penny shy comes to mind.
Sorry forgot to add, US defence budget is now down to 2007 levels
One can only go according to the figures. There is no doubt that a screw or nut destined for the US military, costs a lot lot more then what one pays at the local hardware shop. But that is the nature of defence expenditure. I think its systemic all over the world.
I havn’t calculated it out yet, but over a 20 year period, most of the time there has been an increase in military funding. I would have to put the data on a spreadsheet and calculate properly, and not just take an average of percentages.
But coming to the point- the military, and the defence industry, would prefer to have a persistent and credible enemy for the continuation and increase of the defence budget.
Pounce: “But whilst everybody concentrates on spending , maybe we should be looking at how that money is been spent and then when we do, you can see that actually a lot of that rise is down to politician micro managing”
So right! Do I recall there were more MoD staff than top ranks in all the UK military wings, and that – proportionately to frontline servicemen and servicewomen – the UK had more ‘top brass’ than any other nation in the world?
Did the Osborne ‘Austerity cull’ have any/much effect at the MoD?
Don’t forget that the former Warsaw Pact states have now joined NATO. As part of this process they have been forced to re-equip: Soviet-era planes and tanks are not interoperable and it is a requirement of NATO membership that standard equipment is used. Once purchased, that kit needs to be maintained and upgraded; this is very lucrative in the case of aircraft sales, where the support and aftersales service is worth more than the initial purchase – as the Poles are discovering, a dog may be for Christmas but an F-16 fighter is for life 🙂
The value of these sales may not directly offset the ‘peace bonanza’ that the Western European countries had in the 1990s, but they are a nice little earner for the Military Industrial Complex, who put a lot of time, effort and money into the case for expanding NATO.
Good point.
Sweden – the rape capital of Europe.
Then this
The state-backed Swedish Institute handed control of its official Twitter account over to an Arab migrant who then proceeded to tweet:
https://www.infowars.com/im-the-immigrant-fking-your-daughter/
Watch as the Swedish Establishment goes full ON to demonise the alt-Right, and arrests any who speaks against “cultural enrichment”.
One weeps for Sweden.
Here’s something from ‘War is Boring’
On April 4, 2017, the commander of No. 677 Squadron — Col. Yusuf Hasuri — received written orders from the Ba’ath Party headquarters in Damascus to arm two of his Sukhois with bombs filled with chemical agents. Syrian intelligence believed that leaders from Syrian jihadist group Hayat Tahrir Ash Sham were planning on meeting in the town of Khan Sheykhoun. The Su-22s took off at 6:30 in the morning — unusually early for a Syrian air operation — and took the population of Khan Sheykhoun by surprise. Local early-warning systems activated minutes after four chemical bombs released by Hasuri and his wingman hit a road inside the town.
Between 74 and 86 people — including dozens of children — died within minutes. As at least another 557 people were injured. An Su-24 launched from Tiyas air base at 9:04 that morning dropped four bombs on a field hospital treating the wounded.
Pounce, maybe. That raises more questions.
Why, in the circumstances outlined:
did the Ba’athist leaders opt for an imprecise strike?
with endless supplies of Russian military strike weapons at their disposal together with other kit from arms dealers, did they not use something much more likely to eliminate Syrian jihadist group Hayat Tahrir Ash Sham?
did they not consider the likelihood of collateral damage and the negative PR consequences?
did they consider they might cause problems for their allies?
“Why, in the circumstances outlined: did the Ba’athist leaders opt for an imprecise strike?”
But it wasn’t an imprecise strike was it. Using such a lethal weapon which can blanket a town in which to chop off the head of the snake would in the eyes of the Ba’th leadership be worth the risk. The attack was made by old Su22 aircraft, they are not fitted with PGM for that you are looking at Su 27/30/35. and a targeting pod. Which the truth be told isn’t something the Russians have a lot of, which kind of explains why they have used a hell of a lot of dumb bombs in syria.
Putin’s modern Air Force choosing devastating dumb bombs over precision strikes
The difference between the Western coalition and the Russians is the west has used only PGMS. The Russians and friends have used primarily brute force.
Even the bBC has noticed that fact:
Video material released by the Russian ministry of defence along with stills and other video material show a variety of weapons being used, the overwhelming bulk of which appear to be dumb – that is to say unguided – bombs rather than the precision-guided munitions that dominate Western air campaigns. OFAB 250-270 fragmentation bombs have been seen being loaded on Russian aircraft at Latakia as well as OFAB 250-500s and OFAB 100-120s.
Some GPS-guided KAB-500S bombs have also been seen. Evidence has emerged of the use of cluster munitions (the SPBE-D) another Russian system, though this could have equally been dropped by a Syrian jet.
Pounce, did they get them, the rebel leaders? Apparently not unless everyone is keeping quiet about it?
That’s something that has struck me while reading and posting this afternoon. In the PR war, Assad has been very quiet, very patient, occasionally explaining that the government is fighting rebels, terrorists and Islamists. That maybe because our media are being a bit delinquent in their news gathering. To be fair, they (UK, if not all Western journalists) were excluded from Syria at the beginning.
On the other hand, we know some are fully on the anti-Assad team, the BBC for example.
So the Russians are implicated but their pilot isn’t named?
Have they run out of the tools for the job? – it’s not like PGMs aren’t available in Syria and the Su-24 is by many accounts a serviceable targeting platform.
odd
Alan
appears on RT with the PAID Iran stooge George Galloway….
TFIFY
George has a singular talent for lubricating his advocacy with a few bob that is nothing short of miraculous -That the Member for Baghdad inveigles himself into the Iranian camp and is promoted to top Anglophone mouthpiece is truly a thing of wonder.
I do wonder what he’s trousering.
Having listened to Paul Joseph Watson clip above and read comments of other B-BBC contributors I have been transported back to 1977 and 1978.
The Carter administration went to Washington with a measure of a ‘drain the swamp’ agenda similar to that proclaimed by Trump during the election campaign. Carter and his staff were Beltway outsiders. They wanted to fix things that they thought were wrong in the USA. They blamed Washington and its previous inhabitants. They were going to do it their way. They had been elected.
As soon as Hamilton Jordan’s cowboy boots were put up on the President’s desk it was a symbol of the struggle that was underway between ‘establishment’ and the political class (include the Pentagon in that) and the new Carter administration. That riled their opponents and they had plenty of those within the Washington establishment.
I can believe it when commenters here on B-BBC suggest Trump’s Administration is being undermined possibly from within, in addition to the establishment outside but still within ‘the swamp’ that Trump wanted to drain. Was a pressure was put on Trump to act? A trade-off for a ‘reduction in heat’ from Republican opponents as well as the establishment beyond Trump’s staff?
Whether Trump’s order was based on good information or not, who can say, outside of the White House, the Pentagon and Langley? The deed is done. Things have changed. Those who complained of Trump’s isolationist attitude will now have to reconsider.
The Deep State, made up of 16+ intelligence agencies, the IRS, and the Military Industrial Complex tied with with Morgan Stanley, Goldmann Sachs etc, is not just going to fold up and collapse because some outsider with no know-how, political acumen, or widespread support in the MSM and Congress, is going to beat them.
Its naive, me included, to think it could be done in a country with the First Amendment. The only way is to reduce its grip, step by step.
In this instance, I would expect Pres Trump to accept the findings of an independent UN body, to see what happened re Chemical weapons. If Chemical weapons were used by government forces, Pres Trump is in the clear, and Russia is stymied. If the investigation shows that chemicals stored at the site, were released incidentally because of an air attack, Pres Trump is back in business to “drain the swamp”. He blames the CIA and other security agencies for misleading him, putting the USA in a potentially dangerous confrontation with Russia. He then fires all who were responsible. Either way, his authority is restored and perhaps even increased.
At this moment he is in danger of losing quite a lot of his loyal base.
If Assad is forced out of office, then who will take over but the Freedom Fighters that are now installed in Iraq and Libya, thanks to USA and UK.
Here is a video of Assad with Christians at a convent in Aleppo.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4065178/Christmas-Aleppo-Worshippers-cram-cathedral-destroyed-rocket-fire-December-25-mass-five-years-Assad-wife-meet-orphans-Christian-convent.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDy3XQA5WQw
Look at the faces of the nuns and the way they greet Pres Assad. These nuns, bravely stood against all that the Islamic radicals were doing to them, with no support from the West, none, would greet a “brutal” dictator.
Then the children. You cant force children to be relaxed and happy. If the children were frightened of Assad, it would show.
“If the children were frightened of Assad, it would show.”
The older girls look more like Assad’s version of Corbyns groupie girls MOMENTUM!
I posted this above, but here it is again. A video of the scene of the chemical attack the otherday. If you have young children I suggest you don’t watch
Still think it was faked.
Amos As-el in his Jerusalem Post article “Assad’s political alchemy ” gives a rationale to Assad’s chemical attacks.
“ASSAD’S GAS delivery is part of a strategic vision.
The location of the attacks this week, the town of Khan Sheikhoun, is just east of the Nusayriyah Mountains, the Alawite minority’s stronghold east of Syria’s Mediterranean coastline. At the same time, the town also sits smack on the M5 highway, Syria’s most important artery, which runs from the Jordanian border through Damascus and Homs to Aleppo.
The gas attack and the hospital bombings that followed it are part of an ethnic-cleansing effort that is designed to chase Sunni populations to the east of this north-south axis and replace them with Shi’ite Arabs from Iraq.”
Not faked Pounce but maybe not Sarin and maybe not delivered by Assad’s forces or at his command. Who really knows? As you have mentioned elsewhere, Sarin disperses relatively quickly.
If you are a rebel force there a simple ways to make a gas that is normally non-lethal except in concentrated amounts in enclosed spaces but would produce considerable distress especially among very young children. Then take some pics, get them on Social Media and hope and wait for the ‘Kurdi effect’. All without firing a shot, using precious ordnance, risking fighting men.
There is a war.
Then there is the propaganda war.
The truth was a casualty in both in Syria a long time ago.
I am less clear about Trump and Syria and the facts leading up to the air strike.
But here is my question.
If every claim about Assad’s use of gas against his own people is correct, if Assad is a brutal dictator – like so many in the region – why is it America’s job to deal with him?
Trump wad elected to restore America, not police the world
Stefan Molyneux goes on a bit but he asks some relevant questions.
The mainstream media is not telling us who these renamed Al-Qaeda terrorists in Khan Shaykhun are, but Islamic terrorists sacrificing children for the benefit of help from the United States at a time that Al-Qaeda is losing to the secular regime in Damascus would make sense to anyone with intelligence. However these facts have emerged.
On May 3rd, 2016, Seymour Hersh said that Hillary Clinton approved the sending of sarin gas to Syria to set up a sarin gas attack and place the blame on the shoulders of Assad. So that the U.S. could invade Syria and blame Assad. By the terms of the agreement, funding came from Turkey, as well as Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The CIA, with the support of MI6, was responsible for getting arms from Gaddafi’s arsenals into Syria. Seymour Hersh stated “Evidence leads directly to Obama who is still active in Washington, Martin Dempsey, former CIA Director John Brennan who is now working with the BBC and Saudi Intelligence Chief Prince Bandar.
Also, the Free Thought Project reports that the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya was operating as a “rat line” for Gaddafi’s weaponry while Hillary Clinton was at the helm.
Also, Christopher Lehmann said on October 7, 2013 that top U.S. and Saudi officials were responsible for the chemical weapons being used in Syria.
Also, in January, Ron Paul said in an interview that false flag attacks could be used by both the so-called American “deep state” and foreign actors to draw the Trump administration into foreign engagements.
Also, Wikileaks has a video out describing this as a False Flag Chemical Attack.
However, Trumps intelligent temporary gesture seems to have neutered this loony plan, as is revealed by this: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/159300836386/the-syrian-air-base-attack
Richard
With so much disinformation around, the one way one can look at this is who gains from this alleged Syrian government attack on the Freedom Fighters.
It certainly isnt Pres Assad. In fact he has lost. Why should he take this action when he had the assurance of Pres Trump that the USA was no longer in the business of driving him out of office.
The one who gains is Pres Trump, as he shows himself to be a forceful president. It also get the rest of the Deep State Establishment of his back. This establishment was slowly edging its way to his impeachment. Pres Trump has lots to gain.
The Establishment has corralled Pres Trump into the reservation. So the establishment and the Intelligence agencies too have much to gain. Besides they have Pres Trump on board.
I cant think of a single reason why Pres Assad would order a poison gas attack. He has nothing to gain, and much to lose.
I have been listening to Newt Gingrich saying how the photos of the dead Syrian children moved Trump, adding that Trump is the kind of man who cares deeply about children.
That is good.
Can we now persuade Trump to bomb the shit out of the Town Halls where UK politicians and cops have done bugger all to prevent RoPer gangs from raping and torturing our children?
Perhaps that would send a message to the Quislings who run this country.
Good point.
The film released on the attacked airfield is rather odd. Point One. Given the amount of cruise missiles launched.
Point two. President Trump vowed to wipe out Isis. This seems to have been forgotten .
Point three. War is deception was true and remains true.
Now if a were a strategist my aim would be to persuade my enemy to act on my terms even if he thought he was not doing so.
I think we need to wait and see what unfolds.
I caught a comment from an American sounding woman (but did not catch her name) on TWTW (BBC R4 1-1.30pm) who said that it was notable that Russia did not try out its air defences against Trump’s Tomahawks.
Interesting.
Maybe Russia did but not making a big deal out of it.
Russia claims that only 23 Tomahawks hot the Syrian air base. What happened top the remaining 36.
1. Duds
2. Brought down by SAMS.
I dont either side will be rushing to advertise this. But the message must have got through.
America is in no position to play chicken with Russia. It has far more lose then Russia in any confrontation, which in the nature of such events, has no upper limit.