Time to start the week with a new OPEN THREAD. Detail the bias here!
START THE WEEK OPEN THREAD….
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- wwfc Dec 22, 19:28
Weekend 21st December 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCMlEHGHtjQ&ab_channel=LondonNPC - atlas_shrugged Dec 22, 19:19
Weekend 21st December 2024
Dis is zer German vetter station Alles ist normal und wunderbar. Heute ist vetter. Morgen ist jest vetter. Nexter vochen… - Guest Who Dec 22, 19:09
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https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/AWBnLoYN_tg/olivia-rudgard Livvy is so sweet. - atlas_shrugged Dec 22, 19:08
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A nation in grief as the rotating helicopter blade came a bit closer. - tomo Dec 22, 17:53
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[img]https://i.ibb.co/DMrTDjx/chrome-y-OIa6k-JNIt.png[/img] - atlas_shrugged Dec 22, 17:26
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This guy is actually quite funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaPbUvPOkD8 Apologies if this has been posted before. - Fedup2 Dec 22, 17:19
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Excellent – the Marxists legislating to ban unapproved donations to other political parties – just a step to banning other… - atlas_shrugged Dec 22, 17:18
Weekend 21st December 2024
The wonders of bBC output. Where would we be without Planet Earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2A07ToxkTI This is a 100% genuine episode bBC…
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Like Payne by name I was late to the party having only just caught up on the Tommy Robinson/Piers Morgan spat.
I don’t believe Morgan when he says he has read the Koran. I said the other day on this forum that only an imbecile would use the term Islamophobe. Case proven – in fact it was all that Susanna Reid said.
He wears his heart on his sleeve, but I do sometimes wish that Tommy was a better debater. We need someone with the intellectual rigour of a Douglas Murray and Tommy’s passion.
Instead of pushing his question: ‘What do you know about Mohamed?’ to which he was never going to get an answer from the truthaphobic Morgan, he could have asked him:
“Which came first, Islam, or Islamic extremists?”
“How ‘Islamic’ do you think ISIS is? A little? just a perversion of Islam? or very very Islamic?”
“Why was the term ‘Islamist’ invented? Do you think the term is recognised in Islam?”
“Islam means Submission. Do you think that submission is supposed to be complete, or should good Muslims be ‘just a little bit submissive?”
It’s a pretty sad reflection of today’s political and media scene that the only man to have the courage to go on TV and speak truth to power is Tommy Robinson. Not one of our 650 MPs will do it.
It is an equally tragic fact that Tommy is only invited on to such programs in the hope that he will dig a deeper hole – much as Farage once was, until it was realised that the man was generally much brighter than his interrogators and actually provided genuine entertainment value along with credible information.
To those whose opinions are pre-formed of course, Tommy currently plays Farage’s former role, to those relatively few with open minds he can be a revelation.
Yes, I agree. It was clearly a hit piece and the chance to lynch a dumb right winger to appease a mouth frothing left wing mob.
Personally, I think Tommy should have made fun of the hysteria when he got the Quoran out and accused Piers and others than when they try to suppress debate about Islam and the reasons for these numerous terrorist activities that they are echoing the same ‘sweep it under the carpet’ mentality that consigned 1,400 girls to a decade of sexual abuse. Surely, no one could answer against that charge.
What make Farage so Brilliant is that he learnt the hard way.
Tommy is taking an even harder route
… thus has a chiselled character as and is not yet a smoothie like Murray or Steyn.
He has though got bags of sincerity
Anyone got his book sale stats ?
Mr Robinson is doing pretty well. I have checked the stats for his book ‘Enemy of the State’ on Amazon and they are as follows:
Overall rating: 4.5 stars (out of 5).
945 reviews, of which 850 are 5 stars, only 66 are 1 star.
Sales ranks: No. 31 out of a total catalogue of c.1.8 million books. (Anyone in the top 100 is doing very well).
No. 3 in Sociology, No. 11 in Biography.
Sales rank translates roughly to 2,253 books sold PER DAY.
I’m starting to understand why he is getting invited on to mainstream TV now.
Cranmer
I wonder how many yooni courses have Tommy’s book on their reading lists
There’s a rather patronising review of the book on the LSE blog here: (the author does however get roundly – and deservedly – criticised in the comments).
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2016/03/02/book-review-enemy-of-the-state-by-tommy-robinson/
The writer says it should be on the reading list for all sociology students.
There are 4 million British Moslems and any backbench MP who tries to tell inconvenient truths about Islam is liable to get de-selected by their party.What is long overdue is whenever the establishment left start going on about the DUP and others altitudes to abortion, gay marriage etc someone should mention just how socially conservative Islamic altitudes are
WHY??
http://www.westmonster.com/child-benefit-will-continue-to-be-paid-for-kids-of-eu-migrants-not-even-living-in-britain/
Why indeed?
Presumably the benefit is paid to cover costs incurred, yet the benefit will be paid at UK rates (I assume) to cover child costs incurred in an entirely different economy?
That’s apart from the question whether they should be paid at all.
Only a fool would agree to this.
Times : Finally JustinOnWebb admits Trump won the Atlanta elections.
He Vicky Pollard speaks ‘Yeah, but there are no biz that will fund Democrats’
BS since Hillary vastly outspent Trump
He forgot he just mentioned Dems spent £30m in Atlanta.
Doncaster Airport “4 Men arrested for Modern Slavery”
“Eastern European flights targeted in slavery crackdown at #Doncaster Airport. ”
Wonder what they ethnicity of the perps is Pak/Bangla gangs , EastEurop or white or what ?
But One year ago the same thing was reported
I wonder if the biased BBC will visit Hexthorpe in Doncaster and ask the white working class folk there what they think about the influx of Romanians?
A local contact asserts the council had to lay on extra daily refuse collections to clear the filthy refuse from the streets as leaving rubbish out appears to be a cultural tradition. Apparently.
And we all know how the bBBC like to support multi culti traditions.
South Yorks Police are busy policing FGM
“Last week child protection officers in Sheffield issued four Female Genital Mutilation Protection Orders (FGMPOs) to two women, after concerns were raised for four girls who were identified as being at potential risk of FGM.”
http://southyorks.police.uk/news-syp/further-fgm-protection-orders-issued-syp
So has anybody heard the bBC mention the story of armed police firing on British tourists on holiday in Portugal?
No?
Brits’ Algarve rampage: Portuguese police fire warning shots at mob of ‘UK urban clubbers after week of mayhem, thefts and crime’ in Albufeira
An ‘urban clubbing holiday’ in which a thousand Britons descended on an Algarve town spiralled into violence after a mass brawl broke out in a bar. Dozens of anti-riot police officers were called in as tourists at the ‘Portugal Invasion’ festival brawled on the Oura strip in Albufeira, Portugal on Sunday. At one point specialist GNR officers had to fire warning shots to quell the unrest, which locals said came after a week of mayhem in the resort. Residents said some holidaymakers behaved like ‘animals’ and acted ‘disgracefully’ on the night and that there had been instances of thefts from supermarkets and souvenir shops during the seven-day tour. Two police officers and two Britons were injured in the violence that happened during a seven-day festival called Portugal Invasion, catering mainly for British tourists, which is due to end today.
Maybe the clue to why the bBC hasn’t mentioned this could lie with exactly just what ethnic group these ‘British clubbers belonged to?
https://twitter.com/brightly92/status/878578972174495744
https://twitter.com/CelineLadss/status/878231974862651392
https://twitter.com/brightly92/status/878242755046199296
Can you imagine the bBC holding back from such a story if the Brits were white scum?
lmao great spot
https://twitter.com/hashtag/PORTUGALINVASION17?src=hash
browners ? @bebyghel Jun 26
#PORTUGALINVASION17 restaurants on the strip are not accepting some black people cause of the madness yesterday
Really!?
Normal response to a Level 2 Chimp-out.
Wednesday, and still not seen any TV coverage (BBC or SKY).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/27/jon-snow-accused-shouting-four-letter-anti-tory-remark-glastonbury/
The accompanying tweet claimed Mr Snow had shouted “—- the Tories”. “Boss place that Glasto. Having a dance with Jon Snow and hearing him shout —- the tories is what dream are made of”.
no surprise there then!
The comments are worth a read..& this one in particular caught my eye:
“In my view, people who think the BBC are biased towards the Left (they are mostly soft-Left and Tory wets) need to watch Channel 4 News – they make them look like a bunch of Tories in comparison. Only the current Guardian newspaper is, in my opinion, further to the Left than Channel 4. How they get away with this I don’t know – its not as though they even bother hiding it either.”
..mustafa lookin!
p.s. judging by the photo a few trips to the gym might be in order our Jon!
[url=https://postimg.org/image/tj5d8fdg3/]
[/url]
Noticed the poster behind Andy McDonald’s head
@DavyLars : apparently that is a genuine 1935 Labour vintage poster
https://www.worldofartglobal.com/collections/labour-party-in-britain-1/products/vote-labour-and-keep-the-bbc-announcer-busy-in-1935
The modern version would say
“The BBC announcer
IS busy saying
Vote Labour”
Thanks Stew.
You are totally correct.
That’s exactly what they say, except they don’t need posters these days…
#BBCpriorities
So stay away then !
Their country, their business.
Perhaps the Poles have long memories.
http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/muslim-waffen-ss-13th-division-1943/
Off topic ….But here is my favourite Waffen SS related page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia/Reich_Corps_of_the_Trombone
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Reich_Corps_of_the_Trombone.html?id=o-nWcQAACAAJ&redir_esc=y
Sorry, but I just don’t care anymore. Any woman that wears that headscarf get-up is deliberately advertising herself as a Muslim to visually set herself apart from non-Muslims. It’s the same with Christian nuns or Jews; if they deliberately set themselves apart they must be prepared sometimes to get a reaction. I once had abuse shouted at me in the street in Wales simply because I was wearing a dinner jacket, en route to a formal dinner – I took this in my stride because I knew I was deliberately visually setting myself apart from the shell-suit wearing locals.
The Poles are a proud, independent and fervently Christian people. They have a homogeneous culture and don’t suffer the ‘blessings’ of multiculturalism, ie high rates of sex crimes, knifings, shootings, truckings, paedophile rape gangs, bombings and terrorism. And, surprisingly, they want to keep it like that, tut tut. So when the idiot Pope tells them to open their borders to more invaders, they tell him to get stuffed (but politely because they are deeply Catholic). Likewise when the lunatics at the EU tell them the same.
They have had the benefits of 2 waves of vibrant enrichment last century, first the German fascists, then the Soviet Communist fascists. They’re in no hurry for a third.
Newspaper fails to report that protester jailed for violence was antifa ?
(I guess as they are the ones that wear masks,
Hangon could be, antifa website names a “Patrick edwards” so could be someone reacting to antifa..either way the paper isn’t telling the full story)
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/crime/violent-protester-locked-up-over-immigration-clash-1-8026436
June 27, 2017 at 9:37 pm on START THE WEEK OPEN THREAD….
Perhaps churches without clerics are the answer – sort of democratic meeting houses. I get the impression that Quakers are…
Wild June 27, 2017 at 8:25 pm on Suicide isn’t painless
The people who are in favour of unlimited immigration are the same sort of people (they like call themselves progressive
one hour plus bewtween posts!!??..fishy..or is it my mistake>
R4 Now : repeat of the prog abt Men’s Liberation
3 part series called Red Pill
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b072mq8s
First I’ve heard about blue-pill/red-pill..whereby bluepill people only see a fantasy view of the world
There’s a far better film/documentary on Amazon Prime called The Red Pill by Cassie Jaye. A feminist that decided to look into the MRA movement and had some surprising conclusions.
The film was banned from some screenings, particularly in Australia. Really good film and I’d totally recommend watching if you want to disappear down the rabbit hole…
BBC 10 o’clock news
Scotlands first minister has reconsidered a second referendum and put it on hold.
She has had a “RETHINK ” according to the BBC.
Funny how they won’t say “U TURN”
Seems this dialogue is only reserved for the conservative government.
Delaying a decision on a second Scottish referendum until after Brexit is sorted?
Couldn’t you simply say that La Sturgeon has now “adopted and followed the Conservative government’s position”?
or all the scottish nazi parties and jimmy krankies whinging is simply hot air and they speak for no one
You turn if you want to. The Krankie is NOT for turning – his little pedal car has no reverse gear.
Arconic (supplier of Grenfell) knowingly supplied flammable panels for use in tower – emails
Summary of story is there are three types of panels sold by US Company Arconic. One is not fireproof as stated in details. The one sold to Grenfell was PE core panels, for use on buildings up to 10 meters only and not fireproof.
– who is responsible for reading the specifications for materials built to fit the tower?
– what is the price difference was that the deciding factor, rather than the details?
An interesting read, sorry if someone has posted already.
Arconic (supplier of Grenfell) knowingly supplied flammable panels for use in tower – emails / reuters 24jun17
Thanks for the link – useful facts.
The lawyers are going to enjoy this, as usual.
Have the BBC truly lost it? Newsnight are now blaming Brexit win on psychological tricks on social media called psychographics carried out for leave.eu by Cambridge Analytica. Also they see a conspiracy linked to Breitbart and Steve Bannon.
I’d put this on the level of UFO conspiracies.
So having Obuma every living PM every european leader (who would express an opinion) the entire civil service the bank of england the cbi more importantly the bbc , channel4 , a vast range of so called celebrities , every academic they could find , choosing the question and wasting £9m ona pamphlet is not a ” psychological trick
and its easily out done by a bit of social media by Cambridge Analytica and one website most people never heard of
then we should just get rid of politicians the civil service and the bbc and just nationalise Cambridge Analytica
Kaiser
Maybe Cambridge Analytica could be recruited to defeat ISIS?
Sounds a bit like a J K Rowling fairy tale to me.
lol you couldnt make the shit up like these people do
I hope the sons of glyndwr know who their real enemies are these days
if not a few days out in london birmingham manchester should suffice
Desperate Al Beeb are resorting to their motto………
‘desperate times call for desperate measures’.
The sons of Glyndwr know the enemy, that’s why they voted for Brexit, we want out!
Al Beeb are worried, very worried, they are bringing in Blue Peter now to try to halt Brexit
Well at least it makes a change from one banner advert on one bus fooled oved 17 million people.
Payne by name
I don’t think that it was the banner on the bus that fooled all the 17 Million people .
It was the then, undemocratic EU and the original so called ‘Common Market’ referendum that fooled all the remainers back in 1975……………………
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/6/newsid_2499000/2499297.stm
Have just seen this report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40423629/what-was-the-role-of-cambridge-analytica-and-psychographics-in-the-eu-referendum
More like politically-motivated BBC fake news to me.
The same video on the BBC website is also listed under the title of “Was Britain’s EU referendum hijacked by the US alt-right?”.
ODHSNM
BBC News website is reporting this morning on the British Social Attitudes survey with the headline “More Britons back tax and spend” However, if you read the full article you also find, amongst other things, that 76% support leaving the EU. By way of contrast only 48% back tax and spend. However the BBC have gone with the increased support for tax and spend to provide their headline (which is politically useful on the day when Labour are trying to force a vote on public sector pay, this story is the BBC’s main headline for the day) but would probably never run a headline “76% back leaving the EU” or ” Remain down to 24%”
Yes very misleading. They choose the message they want, and shoehorn the stats to fit.
Mishal Hussein also informs us they will be focusing this morning on ‘austerity’ and asking if it is time to end it. Drip drip drip….
DB,
BBC, the, “Shadow Government”?
Austerity hasn’t even started in the UK. Eire set a better example and will reap the rewards.
CW
On Toady this morning as you rightly say, the bBBC gave full voice to the demand for an end to austerity, with nearly half those surveyed wanting an increase in taxes.
But then, amazingly, the bBbC expalined who actually pays tax. 40% pay no tax at all. 50% pay only the standard 20% rate, 9% pay 40%, just 1% pay the 45% rate.
So could the bBBC join the dots between those who want higher taxes and those who pay no tax at all?
Well, what do you think?
Nick ‘sources say’ Robinson running with evidence which suggests in complement:
Comments so far suggest he is not considered reliable.
im always amused by people who think they pay 20% tax completely ignoring NI ees , ers , vat , fuel duty , council tax , ipt, beer wine spirit duty etc etc etc etc etc
People really are gullible idiots
‘People really are gullible idiots’
I reckon a lot of people just don’t know, don’t care, are lazy and all too many are content to take their ‘facts’ as little sound-bites via the bbc – it saves the time and effort involved in using their brain.
Talk on TODAY with Letwynd – ‘People are open to tax rises ……’
As one of the most highly taxed countries in the World – I’m certainly not up for higher taxes, we pay enough. It’s more what they do with it and we all know too much is simply pissed away and NOT for the ‘Greater Good’ at all e.g.: £800 billion for a pointless model train set?
PS The likes of Robinson et al have little interest in tax one way or another – their fat salaries are paid via Luxembourg clearing house.
If you add income tax, employees’ NI and employers’ NI, the average person is already on about 45% tax before they even buy a gallon of petrol or a pint of beer.
Even people who notice the NI figure on their payslip often don’t realise that the figure for employers’ NI does not come from the “magic money tree”, it is a payroll tax, it is part of the cost of employing them the employer has to take into account when setting wage rates.
I think the time is long past to end the NI fiction, and roll these three deductions from wages into one tax, then people would get a chance to see just how highly taxed they already are. Which is, of course, why no government wants to do it. A hidden income tax no-one knows about really is a diabolical trick.
Rob,
You know it’s a state secret where NI goes, just like road tax. Neither go where the names suggest.
There’s also a less well known, hidden VAT cost on goods and services which are exempt from VAT because the supplier cannot generally reclaim all the “input tax” he incurs on costs. This additional hidden VAT cost is then passed on to the customer. The rules are complex but, as a rough guide, exemption includes:
Some supplies of land and property
Insurance
Education
Health (including dental treatment)
Betting
Financial services
Postal services
(Not to be confused with the “zero rating” of items such as food and books, where the “input tax” on costs is generally reclaimable by the supplier.)
Moreover, the sort of people who say they don’t mind paying extra tax aren’t the ones who are really suffering. They are the comfortably off middle classes usually working in the overpaid public or private sectors. BBC employees are perfect examples of this!
I counted 16 attitude items on the website and the 76% is the 14th. Being so low down on the list it doesn’t get a mention on the news.
I wonder if the 48% that want higher taxes want to pay them?
Yes, exactly. How is the survey relevant if the question is ‘are you happy for other people to pay higher taxes’?
Spot on. The question is really asking people if they would like someone else to bear the cost of their actions. It’s not surprising, although sad, that so many were agreeable.
More Grenfell tower Toady mourning.
They focus on Samira, who lived near the block and needs to be re-housed.
She is a single mother from Morocco who speaks no English !!!! FFS.
We are told many of those affected have English as their second or even third language.
So the poor dears find it difficult because the nasty Tory council makes people fill in forms to get more benefits.
But luckily the local mosque is helping them out.
Did the bBBC wonder for one microsecond what Samira is actually doing in this country in the first place?
Of course not.
I wonder if people like her contribute to the above mentioned social survey where people wwant an end to austerity and higher taxes?
Sluff
I often wonder how these brain surgeons and senior NHS workers get by without English
GWF.
You may jest but a person of my acquaintance was scheduled to be operated on, in the NHS, by a Muslim surgeon obeying Ramadan. In June.
That’s no food or water for 16+ hours and sleep interrupted by the need to eat only after dark.
Would he be on top of his game? Would you really really want to take that chance?
Not an invention but a real life actual dilemna for a friend with cancer.
Sluff
I am only half jesting. The problem is serious and I have raised it often. We have doctors coming here to practice medicine and are requiring education in basic English so they can communicate with the ever shrinking number of English speakers.
But here is my problem.
Most medical research, medical textbooks and peer reviewed papers, is published in English. Only a small percentage may be published in other languages.
So how can you qualify to practice medicine without having read the relevant research?
I have already mentioned in another post my confrontation with a senior nurse in a cancer hospital who responded to my lecture on pain relief for terminally ill cancer patients. She objected to giving them pain relief because they had devoted their lives to Satan. A brief check on the Latin root for pain – poena – and its link with punishment will tell you she comes from a backward culture where pain and punishment are still connected.
My thoughts entirely. Just what do we think we are doing letting in the Samiras of this world and then allowing them to live in one of the worlds most expensive cities? Samira will be claiming every benefit imaginable and is given a flat in central London. Meanwhile if our sons and daughters work hard to get a degree then go to London to work they will have to flat share and get precisely zilch from the state. Our welfare system was not intended to support the third world who decide to come to London. The sooner we end this lunacy the better. But which politician will speak up for common sense?
hmmmmmm i live in a row of three houses, the other two are occupied by non-working blokes with the council paying their rents etc etc
They have really nice gardens, i dont have the time to get/keep mine up to that standard
when the sun was shining recently by the time i got home from work to sit in the garden for a couple of hours , they were already wasted and sun tanned
I often sometimes wonder which one of us has got it right.
JRM4PM
Sluff, great minds think alike – although you are quicker at posting that I am. If you and I can think immediately, ‘what is Samira doing in the UK’ – how come those snowflakes at the BBC don’t think the same thing? Not least it weakens their argument when they broadcast such a story – now of course had it been a refugee from Syria…… but maybe they thought they had done that one to death.
Can any one explain what links we have with Morocco that a young woman, with no English, feels she has to come to the UK and be housed at UK taxpayers expense (the Today programme did say she her housing was being paid for by the Council – which means the UK taxpayer) in one of the most expensive boroughs in the country? I would have thought it would be cheaper for the council to offer to pay her fare back to Morocco at least until Grenfell Tower is rebuilt.
And let us remember that the Labour trots the bBBC so love think Samira’s benefits should not be capped at £23,000.
This perfectly fits my hypothesis that the Trots tactic is to so burden the market economy with unsustainable requirements that it breaks down. And out of the ashes comes the Command and Control Socialist Nirvana.
Be afraid.
Britain has no connections whatsoever with Morocco, it was not a British colony and is not part of the EU. My guess is there is some sort of trafficking link via Gibraltar, which is only about 30 minutes away by ferry.
But it’s hopeless expecting the snowflakes to question why any foreigner should be in Britain. They simply have no concept of ‘foreign’ or ‘British’. It would be like asking one of us, what is a Kentish man doing in Norfolk? We would simply shrug and say ‘who cares, what does it matter?’
So the mother doesn’t speak English, no reason for her to learn and I guess her child will have little help or incentive to learn it either. Is this what the left would call an investment in people?
The BBC are clearly scraping the bottom of the barrel if they have to rely on a social attitudes survey to fuel their campaign to end so-called austerity. Clearly the BBC campaign is perfectly co- ordinated with the labour campaign. It relies on the same calculated view that because only 10 per cent pay higher rate taxes and 40 per cent no income tax at all, the masses will consider this a ‘something for nothing ‘ option, just as they did recently when voting for labour bribes.
Bad morning for TV.
Endless whine about Grenfell – apparently the central heating boilers were in the wrong place according to some tenants. I don’t think this had anything to do with the fire. I know a little about CH boilers and the location is often dictated by the flue. Putting them where the occupier wants them can be very expensive.
Later this morning, the Hillsborough circus returns to town. How about a Heysel inquiry?
Switched off.
Oh god, how can there still be any mileage in Hillsborough. Hasn’t it been exhausted yet. Personally, I’ve always had a bit of an issue with absolving every single person in the crowd from blame.
I don’t agree that pushing someone isn’t a deliberate act by a conscious human being. That they have no control over forcing their body to step forward and push into another person. That they have no motive to gain position by their deliberate actions. I’m not talking about those trapped at the front of the crush or those in the middle but those at the back that are propelling the forward momentum of the crush.
Surely many of us have been in traffic jams and seen people trying to push in with their cars, go up the hard shoulder, fill box junctions etc. Hence there are plenty of occasions that we witness people that force themselves into positions with a deliberate belief of their innocence ‘what me, pushing in, oh sorry, I didn’t realise’.
Likewise I’m sure we’ve all been on buses and trains where maybe we’ve considered against forcing ourselves into a crowded compartment but seen others barge past and steam roller right into the melee. The person pushing in might not see that this is forcing an innocent person further into the opposing door or window but that doesn’t mean that their forceful action isn’t contributing to the crush.
Hence, whilst I believe the police cover up to be dreadful and worthy of exposure and whilst I recognise that those at the back might not have been aware that their pushing was directly causing the deaths of others, I think it foolhardy to completely absolve those that were pushing to get into the ground of any blame whatsoever.
You can’t tell me that there aren’t some people that were at the back of that crowd, that left their entry to the last minute and aren’t thinking to themselves ‘maybe I was a little forceful and pushy in my attempts to get into the ground on that day’.
The police weren’t at the back of the crowd with cattle prods and they weren’t shepherding people into the stadium with tractors. The motive for people pushing forwards wasn’t fuelled by the panic of fleeing a natural disaster but a human instinct of wanting to get ahead and not miss out.
Therefore my problem is that by saying that not a single person in that crowd was responsible for their actions and that no one contributed directly or indirectly to the crush, seems to conveniently indemnify all of those people that they were simply automatons or brainless cattle.
I agree. Completely absolving all the fans seems absurd. Certain groups of people are never expected to behave reasonably and others must be held responsible for their actions. The purpose of an inquiry these days seems to be to placate the mob.
I may have clicked “report comment” by mistake, with it being next to the “reply” button.
“Hence, whilst I believe the police cover up to be dreadful”
In an ideal world, yes, but then lots of things would never happen in such a place. It is often said that we have a blame culture, encouraged by narcissism, lawyers’ greed and the thought of a bit of easy cash. The MSM’s constant rabble-rousing search for titillation under the guise of journalism has the same effect.
With this in mind, how many people can say in complete honesty that they would always tell the truth if an error of judgement in the face of provocation could result in the end of their careers, and possibly worse?
I wouldn’t have wanted to police football fans as they were back then and I’m not going to judge those who did.
That’s a very reasonable summary Payne, except that the most significant demographic factor in the whole Hillsborough sagafarce is omitted. Add that to the mix and some deeply flawed, culpable but essentially human men, capable and guilty of grave errors of judgement but no more – and most certainly not guilty of hooliganism or drunkenness – will spend their twilight years in jail. Result? Well, yes, for the truly vindictive experts at the blame game.
Surely anyone who lives in or near Merseyside, or has the misfortune to have to pay for the bBBC NorthWest’s weekly propaganda, knows by now that there were half a million Scousers at Hillsborough, but only 96 of them were in the Leppings Lane end. No-one from Liverpool was behind the 96 who died; they were crushed by the South Yorkshire Police, ordered by Mrs Thatcher.
Individual members of South Yorkshire Police should held accountable for their actions on that day, and the following cover up. The incident wasn’t criminal but the cover up probably was.
The problem was not the crowd, that was what was expected, it was that the police officer in charge had never done it before, and ordered the wrong gates to be opened. If the right gates had been opened, the crowd would have surged on to empty terraces, but instead they were funnelled into an already full pen, with the result that the people in front were crushed to death on the fencing.
As you say, the cover up was worse than the original mistake.
“The problem was not the crowd”
Of course it was the crowd, or part of it, it always was in football back then. Heysel was not merely a coincidence, it was typical. Why do you think English clubs were banned?
It was also the (football) crowd that made it necessary to install the fencing in the first place.
People in crowds don’t always behave like animals – it depends on who they are, and I’ve been in plenty of crowds.
Those at the front who obviously arrived in good time paid the price.
Cheshire is obviously too close to Liverpool.
If you read any of the reports into this from Taylor onwards you will see that what I said was true. There was no crowd violence, it was a normal match for the 1980s. The police commander opened the gates he should have closed, and closed the gates he should have opened. It was a mistake, but one which the police establishment then compounded with lies. This is what they are now having to answer for. They are not above the law.
Two points:
“reports” – you mean like the Macpherson report? This involves football and Liverpool. It is highly charged politically and I’m not prepared to believe “reports” created under these circumstances.
“There was no crowd violence, it was a normal match for the 1980s.” That’s not saying much, is it? Bad behaviour can fall short of “violence”. People died because (a) people pushed, and (b) they were caged in. As I said above, all crowds do not behave this way. I’ve descended heavily crowded staircases with several flights at rugby matches and elsewhere where one stumble could have been potentially disastrous. Didn’t happen because the crowds were well behaved.
Shove all the blame onto the police under a sort of “boys will be boys” argument if you wish. I’m not buying it, and lots of other people with memories of football at that time don’t seem to be buying it either.
Another beauty:
Not sure they are great on irony.
It is good to see the White House spokeswoman stand up to that sanctimonious reporter. It is difficult to believe that anyone, including journalists, can honestly believe that most of the media are covering Trump anywhere near fairly, never mind the almost unquestioning support/worshipping they gave Obama. Most of the media is clearly on a mission to overthrow Trump.
We now have Corbyn worship in the UK, despite his known support for extremist violent groups. He achieved a high percentage of the vote through promising to give certain groups more and more wealth confiscated/stolen from other people. Because he still did not win the election, his supporters are trying to oust the elected government by violent means.
BBC must be operating with skeleton staff until July 2nd:
‘Diversity Police’ to Operate 24 Hours a Day During Pride to Stop Hate Crime
This is in Madrid:
“Christian faith groups questioned why the city is prioritising the protection of mosques yet doing nothing for churches, despite a recent spate of attacks on Christian places of worship, including an assault with Molotov cocktails just days ago.”
A question raised elsewhere is the BBCs ‘unique’ coverage of the Glastonbury festival, when there are plenty of other festivals going on in the UK during the year.
Of course the fact that the site owner Michael Eavis is a hard line Labour supporter, and has actually stood as a Labour party candidate in the past.
The relationship between the BBC and the Glastonbury management doesn’t appear to have ever come under any scrutiny – for instance, how much does the BBC pay to cover the event?
Suggestions that this is nothing more that the Fascist Left at play, together with the so called progressive agenda which is promoted at the festival do seem to be well founded.
It’s even more of a concern that a section of the event is given over to the promotion of Fascism, at ‘Left Field’ and of course Jeremy Corbyn turned up for an appearance complete with the organiser Michael Eavis.
This event needs far more attention as regards the BBC involvement which appears to be too close.
tickets 2017 £250, tickets 2000 £50 thats inflation under labour for you
I haven’t watched Glastonbury on the bbc for years – the coverage is just too ‘stiff’ and un-natural (much like the bbc has always been with music in general). Why they insist on commentating on it like a sports event is beyond me. I suppose they must feel the need to superimpose their views on it as if people can’t be trusted to watch it on their own and make their own minds up as to whether they like it or not.
In any case, as it’s now a ‘left-leaning’ festival, that rules me out. It’s a shame but these are the times we live in. There was a time when bands got up on stage and just played music without turning it into a fµcking freak show. (corbyn and mcdonald – this means you)
Michael Eavis is too politically motivated for the BBC to sponsor Glastonbury . But that clearly doesn’t count for the BBC because their politics are much the same.
So he didn’t have a broken neck after all:
Man whose death sparked clashes with police had ‘packages’ in his throat
“Packages” in his throat? Our postman is issued with a trolley.
Damn those “lone wolf” packages!
As the Islamist contingent in the UK increase their tentacle grip around our throats with the assistance of the Government and the BBC, can we see this as a workable example which islam will apply over here? –
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/06/erdogan-seizes-50-churches-and-monasteries-declares-them-turkish-state-property
Maybe, but we’re not Turks, French or Germans. There is a difference.
Recruits to he new German Army post WW2 had to sign an agreement NOT to carry out any order that could be classed as a war crime.
Gax,
“There is a difference.” – yeah, the West is more accommodating!
G,
It’s more a case of feeling we have to retain some ideal of moral superiority which puts us at a complete disadvantage always. We enter the ring with one arm tied behind our back.
Turkey is a NATO member! The Sultan is reinstating Ottoman rule right under their noses & no one bats an eyelash.
The Sultan is reinstating the Ottoman empire right under the noses of his NATO allies. And no one bats an eyelash.
LBC now Convert to Islam to adopt child
This couple told him they are Hindu, but 3/4 way through interview they were told since most children we have are mixed race if you want a child with same skin colour as you , then you should convert to Islam.
Nick Ferrari played the clip and says it will be a feature of tomorrow’s show as they are giving the adoption agency chance to reply.
Burger King’s ice cream cones lid offends…………………..
http://www.therevival.co.uk/forum/general/1718
C’mon now. Things are getting completely out of hand. We will be Islamicised in all good time (estimated to be 2050 by simple arithmetic) so why rush it now?
Close pubs and breweries;
Ban music festivals: Glastonbury, The Proms?……………
No pork, no bacon sandwiches………….
Now, that really, really offends me.
The only way to stop this offending is to check everything via the Muslim Authorities (whoever they are), that way we won’t offend anyone. Oh, I see where this is going … when asking who should be the moral police and guidance for the World we have now found the voice.
When the CAIR pounded Nike into recalling 800,000 shoes because the English word “Air” in its logo allegedly resembled the Arabic lettering for “Allah.” 1997
Last year Burger King had to change the logo of an ice-cream cone because, according to “offended” Muslims it could be read as “Allah.” 2006
Middlesex Crusaders cricket team (sport) changes name after complaints from Muslims and Jews 2009
Real Madrid (sport) remove Christian cross from logo for new Middle East clothing deal – 24 Jan, 2017
Allah Conquers the United Nations
“…rewrite the UN Human Rights Charter to ‘protect the sanctity of religions and the prophets.’ … We understand the deep hurt and widespread indignation felt in the Muslim world. The freedom of the press […] should respect the beliefs and tenets of all religions.”
See what they did there? They swapped ‘freedom’ for ‘respect’, which means they just lost freedom, gone. Respect is earned not given by default or via a passage from a book that says ‘You Must Respect Me or else …’.
In the article it says … “In 1987 the United Nations changed the logo of its Human Rights Commission from a flame (below, on the left) into something (below, on the right) resembling…, well, that looks strikingly like the Arabic word ‘Allah’. So far, there have been no protests from ‘offended’ Muslims,”
Finding Allah in Unlikely Places by Daniel Pipes Sep 16, 2005
Mark,
It begs the question- what happens when the “the beliefs and tenets” of one religion demand the abolition of all the others? Who do they “respect” when religions clash? Because religions do clash. Human rights merchants re seriously out of their depth on this.
The strongest one will win.
What happens when a tolerant society (gives to please) clashes with an intolerant one (takes by demanding)?
What happens when a soft eco-car that is powered by love, runs into a diesel guzzling steel tank topped up with hate?
Only today I found out that Yasser Arafat was given a peace prize (1994) “… efforts to create peace in the Middle East”. I still have lots to learn …
I try to explain to my kids why, when around 60% of Britain describe themselves as Christian and only 6% Muslim – why they are presented a view that would indicate the percentages were reversed ?
gaxvil – the percentages soon will be reversed, given demographic trends and movements.
Charlie Martel-It’s as sure as night follows day. 4 times 4 times 4 times 4= 256.
1 times 2 times 1 times 2=4. At the most in four generations the BBC will proudly be starting
their morning programmes with the Adhan. Gaddafi was right . “Muslim brothers there is no need for terrorism. Just carry on having 4,5 or more children and in time there will be a greater Caliphate in Europe.”
And Gaddafi will be proved to be correct. I wonder then if the BBC or whatever it is called will have such a rigorous positive discrimination and diversity set up. Maybe the Londonistan programme will be
presented by John Smith and Janet Williams, in the name of positive discrimination. Actually that’s an anachronism ,even now. With indigenous Londoners in a minority Riz Lateef and Asad Ahmed in the name of positive discrimination shouldn’t be presenting the programme!.
Maybe but it’ll be a toss up who gets their first, Muslims with their high birth rate or the ‘nits’ who we finance and cosset from cradle to grave and contribute err …….. nothing.
For such a body that has a completely negative impact on society they enjoy a surprising amount of support and attention.
Between them and a Mr. Mashood in his halal chicken shop – I’d have more respect for the latter.
Subliminal ‘Corbyn product placement’ in BBCnews item about Google.
https://www.twitter.com/NSP55/status/879823101156089856
It should be in the joke section along with the squirty plastic flowers clowns wear.
Surely just indicative of the search history of the BBC researcher/reporter?
What a surprise!
From a Twitter thread headed by a photo with a weak claim that 4 BBC reporters are pro Tory
Mad of course cos Amol being a Liberal who supported the Liberals getting into coalition, doesn’t make him a Conservative supporter.
– Nick Robinson being a Tory student doesn’t prove he’s a Tory now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40423629
The BBC’s desperation to find something, anything to blame their recent political defeats on continues unabated. They just can’t accept that they’re on the losing team. The left has a pathological defence mechanism.
“…she (Theresa May) was strong and stable and everything else, and to put it mildly it’s gone tits up. If Theresa’s in trouble the strong and stable leader is Jeremy Corbyn….she (May) now has to obviously consider her position.”
– Anna Soubry (Conservative) on GE17 / Votes 25,983 / Share 46.8 / Change in seats +1.6 / Won her seat
“Brexit Means Brexit 2017 – The Unofficial Version (BBC Documentary 22.06.2017)”
https://youtu.be/Y3yqNdoO460?t=51m46s
Anna Soubry worries me as she seems to speak with words that undermine her own party and the Conservative’s ability to succeed – I know she is an advocate for remaining in the EU, but that does not give her a reason to belittle a win for her party – the alternative is a win for Labour, is that a better outcome?
Soubry is just a gin-toned windbag. Hammond is the truly snakelike one to watch, he provides all the balance, reliability and acumen of a tory McDonnell.
I agree about Hammond. He concerns me.
A chancellor that can’t understand that 17,410,742 is a larger number than 16,141,241. Typical elitist politician that hasn’t grasped that he is employed by the British people to represent us and our wishes.
The UK government asked the British people a question. The time for advice and guidance was before the question was answered. But answered it was and we gave you our instruction – leave the EU.
Not stalling, not backsliding, not deliberately obvious dithering. Carry out the express instruction that we gave you.
Politicians should be reminded that they are our agents, we are not their subjects. Do as you are told.
If you are compiling a rap sheet, sorry – too much American cop TV 25 years ago – a Charge Sheet against Philip Hammond you might add a Chancellor that had no apparent desire to campaign at a General Election for any of the input into the Conservative manifesto that he may have had.
If he had no input, then that’s another item for the Charge Sheet.
Payne et al,
I think that Brexit is a dead duck, killed by the GE result. The Remainers take the view that the result of the GE signals that the majority of people are now , at best , Luke warm about leaving and so the powerful , ‘will of the people argument’, as the driver for Leave has been badly undermined . The Remainers in the HoL will now oppose Brexit tooth and nail knowing that a weak minority government can do little to force them to accept the necessary legislation. The EU seeing the weakness of the government will do all it can to frustrate Brexit and only offer a rubbish deal and the government simply doesn’t any longer have the voting power to walk away. The best Brexit deal that we will be offered will not be worth having, if we accept it , we will have left in name only. I’m afraid that the political reality is that by not giving the Tories at least a majority of fifty , preferably eighty, the British people have scuppered Brexit.
The only hope for Brexit is that at the next GE, which will happen within the next year, the Tories gain a decent majority, any other result will finish Brexit and there will NEVER be another chance, the liberal left establishment will see to that.
It’s a chicken and egg situation DT, did the GE kill Brexit or, what I think is more likely if scandalous, the GE result was rigged to reduce the majority and so complicate and weaken our hand that the EU gets its way – not a unique outcome – and we capitulate.
How else could any rational person explain a manifesto so negative yet so tailored to depress and infuriate voters? A style of presentation so boring and insular it handed the high ground to one who was previously a totally unelectable political non-entity. And a lack of modern political wisdom that allowed a previously unassailable party leader to be outmanoeuvred and made to look cowardly on national TV. Coincidence? I don’t think so – but the BBC must have loved every moment.
Beltane – My thoughts exactly!
One possible explanation I read for the GE, by a commentator on Breitbart, was to do with the House of Lords. The Lords conventionally will not delay or block legislation that was in the manifesto of an elected government, because to do so would be to go against the will of the electorate. Brexit was not in the manifesto of the previous government. It is an interesting theory and perhaps was a contributory factor in May risking calling the GE.
Beltane,
I agree that the Tories seemed to snatch near defeat from the jaws of victory. But I don’t buy the theory that it was deliberate. If the Tory bosses had wanted to frustrate Brexit the most sensible way to have done it would have been to soldier on with their small majority all the while claiming they were the party of Brexit whilst allowing the LibDems, Labour, SNP et al to nibble away in the Commons and the Lords at the various Brexit bills . This would have ensured that in the end we had the softest of soft Brexit and the Tories could claim that they had fought the good fight on behalf of the people but the other parties had sabotaged Brexit.
Nice to think that politicians have high-minded if machiavellian ideals of course, but I prefer to think the worst of them. The unbelievable yet undoubted and, to my mind, engineered, turn-around of Corbyn’s fortunes might well have the worrying yet achievable effect of his leading a Marxist government but – and it’s a big but – that government would also carry the can for a failed or deeply disadvantageous Brexit. QED as the 1922 Committee might say.
I disagree Dt.
The reason the “reluctant Remainer” went to the country (IMHO) was to enable her to climb out of the pocket of the “Arch-Brexiteers” on the benches behind her, by getting a bigger majority bolstered by other Remainers.
This would permit her more wriggle room in making concessions to the EUscum and getting the Andrex Brexit that her and the Elite want, as she could no longer be held over a barrel by the likes of Bill Cash; J R-M; John Redwood et al; due to the dilution of their power by the influx of pliable new MPs in the expected landslide.
The election has blown up in the face of the Female Cenobite and she has now had to enter into an arrangement with a pro-Brexit party in order to get the job done. I think that this may actually have strengthened the chance of a true Brexit and not weakened it.
If there is back sliding on Brexit, those Remainiacs in Labour; the Conservatives and elsewhere would do well to bear in mind this quote:
“I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, the will shortly be out of office.” Milton Friedman.
Our politicians need to realize that Brexit is politically profitable for them and if they f**k us over, that their constituents won’t forget it or forgive them.
But we have just demonstrated in the a GE, the acid test of politics, that Brexit isn’t electorally profitable. If it was then the Tories would have a large majority. The fault lies with ourselves, the electorate, we have consigned Brexit to the dustbin of history. Not politicians , US.
That would be true if the Conservatives were the only party prepared to implement Brexit AND at the GE they lost their majority but they aren’t. The Labour Party has also committed itself to being bound by the result of the referendum, as Corbin and the Shadow Chancellor both said; which in effect cancelled out Brexit as an electoral issue.
I think a lot of people need to stop s***ting the bed about the result of the GE.
If the government and / or parliament, in the worst case scenario, bull the British people over Brexit; then UKIP can rise again as quickly as they sank.
It is as Peter Brimelow wrote:
“Immigration is a profoundly powerful issue once it gets into politics. It is a party breaker, if parties don’t respond to it people will form new parties. There is no more powerful issue in democratic politics than immigration.”
The referendum, for those who voted Leave, was about sovereignty and one of the things which defines sovereignty is being able to decide who comes into your own country and who does not.
Corbyn and McDonnell may not like the EU for ideological reasons but the very most that Labour would give would be a Soft Brexit not worth having. The majority of Labour MPs, all SNP and Lib Dems and , particularly when in opposition, most Tory MPs will not vote for any form of Brexit worth having and the HoL is even worse. Just face up to the unpleasant fact that the British people have rejected Brexit at the GE , or at least shown that it isn’t a priority for them.
As to UKIP rising again and being able to force another referendum , let alone win enough seats to be able to hold a government to ransom, that is a fantasy. Firstly UKIP was NIgel Farage, without him it’s nothing, secondly , Cameron was arrogant enough to think he could win the referendum easily, no PM will think that again, thirdly, the liberal left stablishment will never allow another referendum to threaten our EU membership.
Don’t panic Mr Doublethinker! Don’t panic!
A few years ago it would have been unthinkable that we would ever have a referendum, yet alone that one would be forced by a party with minimal representation in parliament and then won by those who wanted to leave.
The demise of UKIP can quite easily be reversed, if the will of the majority of those who voted in the referendum is thwarted by Remoaner MPs of any stripe.
With apologies to Mark Twain: The reports of the death of Brexit are greatly exaggerated.
Al,
I respect your tenacity in holding out for Brexit , but I think you are wrong. We will be either part of the EU or tied to its apron strings as long as it lasts. How long that may be is unknown. It may not yet weather the storms of the Euro , or mass immigration and the rebellion it is causing in the east of the EU.
In my view the problems caused by mass migration are far more serious a threat to our way of life then being in or out of the EU. But as with the British and Brexit, the peoples of western Europe , whilst keen to do something about it, baulk at the jump when given the chance at the ballot box. The most positive thing that can happen now in the UK is to keep Corbyn out of power. If he gets into No 10 then we will be deluged with even more third worlders the threat will grow even greater very quickly.
Now that Hillsborough campaigners appear to have got what they wanted, I assume we’ll be having criminal trials. Does this mean that defence barristers, if they are allowed to do their jobs, might be revealing details of the events on that day that we haven’t already had access to, or have gone unreported by the MSM?
A pyrrhic victory perhaps?
And to what purpose? Adopting the pose of a victim never did anyone any good. I’m afraid it gives further weight to the stereotype that Liverpudlians are the most balanced people in the country, with a chip on both shoulders.
Tough love ‘Hillsborough’, move on.
They all claim it was just about justice. But I can’t help but think that they are more concerned with the renumeration that could follow the ‘justice’.
With 96 dead on the day, and a police cover up afterwards, it’s hardly surprising that people want justice.
Never seem to talk about the events at the Heysel stadium.
Number of deaths: 39.
Cause: Riot.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
No, but they certainly raise questions about who actually did the crushing.
And this of course in the context of an era of football violence (Hysel et al) which resulted in caged-in terraces to prevent pitch invasions.
This is the context in which the police, flawed or not, were working in those crucial minutes.
Don’t put their actions back then in the snowflakes and armchairs hindsight context of today.
of course heysel was in the days, when 39 deaths resulted in the entire english football “community” being punished for the crimes of the unrepresentative few
how times have changed
A court will now consider “their actions back then”. I think the police cover up, including directing the testimony of otherwise honest officers, will be found to be criminal. I don’t know if the deaths on the day itself were a result of criminal negligence. If it hadn’t been for the deception of the ridiculous reports blaming the deaths on drunken supporters then maybe this whole tragedy could have been long resolved as an unfortunate accident.
Talk of criminal negligence, exactly how much did those parents get who were robbed of a generation of children back in 1966 at Aberfan, when the slag heap of the NCB slipped down and covered a school. I still shudder at the images of those Dad’s scrambling with their bare hands to get at their kids. Think of yourselves doing the same thing eh ?
I cant remember 30 years later having public enquiries, coroners reports et al being discussed in the same way that Hillsborough has collared the headlines continually. Perhaps the grieving families dealt with their loss in a much more dignified way, or perhaps they weren’t as ‘organised’ as those in Liverpool.
If memory serves there was an appeal fund, some of which was taken and used by the NCB to clear the slag heap!
We do live in a different time now, where tragedies and accidents can readily become campaigns and inquiries. Ironically this has done nothing to prevent Saville, Muslim grooming gangs, Shipman or the Staffs hospital happening.
Very good point Flexdream.
In my opinion, police on the day forced to make difficult and immediate decisions deserve to be cut some slack. There but for the grace of God go I.
In contrast, The evidence of a subsequent police cover up is damaging in the extreme and Unforgivable.
Reminds me of a joke from around that time. “Help the Police. Beat yourself up”
Perhaps one way to discourage cover-ups generally is to ensure as far as possible that people faced with difficult and immediate decisions are not hung out to dry. Royal Marine Alexander Blackman springs to mind. Sadly this is not always the case with trial by TV and trial by Twitter becoming increasingly common.
It’s easy for those in safe jobs where such decisons never arise to be ever so self-righteous. But when a colleague has done his best in difficult circumstances but it becomes clear that he is about to be hanged, drawn and quartered, it’s not surprising that colleagues close ranks. I’m sure they see it as redressing a balance which is totally unfair.
Ideally the alleged cover up shouldn’t have happened, but there are many aspects to the disaster which, it could be argued, should never have happened.
8pm R4 Moral Maze : What Should We Be Allowed To Read Online ?
About new internet control laws etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08vzj4n
The conclusion of the debate will be that we should only be allowed to read what the liberal left elite want us to read, i.e. They want the power to censor the internet and maintain their grip on the news agenda .
Let’s face it we already have Libsupremacists stealth controlling what people get to see
..feeding them the blue pill.
R4 8:45pm Comment Piece about NHS reform
By authors of new book
: Intelligent Kindness: Reforming the Culture of Healthcare
Sounds like a buzzword thing to me
Who is going to be against “Intelligent and kind” ?
BBC is against markets and pro magic official control .
I would rather see “Stamping out NHS Stupidity” – a week of anonymous suggestions from doctors, administrators, nurses and patients where everyone can send an experience of stupidity in the NHS with a way to combat it in the future.
My example would be “My Dad struggled to communicate whilst in a NHS hospital because of an open chest cavity and struggled to say how he felt. This could have been resolved by giving him a small whiteboard and a pen to write on.
But instead he was left to try and communicate, getting breathless and frustrated – not being able to say if he was in pain or discomfort. Sometimes ignored by staff because he took too long to speak – so they just got on. Looking back I could have brought a white board and pen in, and looking back feel stupid myself.
But you would think hospitals, doctors, nurses with all their years of experience could have suggested this at the first sign of discomfort in my Dad. Communication with the patient is surely a priority at all times.“
Some examples:
1. Staff waiting five minutes to get onto a ward because of ‘security’ locks. Must lose 20% of staff time daily because of this.
2. Dietician specifies energy drink, patient stockpiles them in bedside cabinet.
3. ‘Catering’ staff provide cups of tea at bedside, collects full cup an hour later as patient unable to drink unaided.
4. Patient ‘care plans’ printed off and mounted bedside but then ignored.
5. Patient with breathing difficulties and on cardiac medication admitted after fall, kept on back for a day, denied medication, spends next week recovering from hospital ‘first aid’ before well enough to be operated on.
6. No-one on geriatric ward reception able to detect or respond to elderly patient having heart attack. Student nurse on secondment on way home first to respond..
7. Patient unable to be given post-op exercise because all the necessary staff have taken Christmas leave.
8. Outpatients waiting 90 minutes in treatment rooms – “Oh, are you still there?”
9. Too many graduate nurses filling out returns on computers, zero nurses with a modicum of empathy to ‘sooth the fevered brow’, ensure hydration and toiletting. Animals get better care.
No-one dare say anything because to do otherwise is to deny that the NHS is ‘safe in their hands’.
Me, I’d have given my old man a blackboard and a bit of chalk. That’s something he would have recognised.
How about multi million £ radiotherapy units where the intercom system is like a children’s squeaky toy and patients caanot hear instructions. Usage of the facilities is thus reduced by many % while the massive radiation proof doors are re-opened and re- closed.in order to communicate effectively with patients.
Still, gives our hardworking nurses time for a quick extra cuppa.
How about releasing dementia patients from hospital with Venflons still stuck in their arm.
And then when you try to ring up the GP the out of hours service tells you to get the patient back to hospital.
Rather difficult when not even in the same country.
How about leaving dementia patients in A and E unattended for hours on end and then when they eventually wander off then having to get the Police out to do a search to find them?
You really can’t make this stuff up, so I haven’t.
how about waiting not waiting for an hour for a porter to wheel an 84 year old to xray on a trolley
wheeling them there yourself, waiting outside for an hour for a nurse to look thru the window
and then be told to take them back because they were in a wheel chair and a porter hadnt brought them
That has nothing to do with money and everything to do with management, leadership and moral.
Sadly my recent and intensive NHS experience has confirmed that the problems with the NHS are not lack of resources but lack of organisation, efficiency and planning, and also it seems becoming an International Health Service. The actual medical care is first rate, but undermined by inefficiency and even sometimes by occasional erratic nursing.
I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40427688
Video clip shows everything that is wrong with this country.
yes seems they are all free most mornings to meet the bbc
on vd today one implied he couldnt take the official money cos they would then stop his benefits, and he had to get stuff from private individuals nudge nudge wink wink
All i could make out of the unintelligible din was “i demand to live in kensington and I want a nice house … ohh and money and stuff”
Oddly there was some mouthy agitated white blokes there, where did they come from never saw any sign of anything like them on site before
Tabs,
“I am not going to take any house you give me, it has to be suitable.”
Why do I get the feeling that however much these people are given it’s never ever going to be enough?
In 40 years their grandchildren will still be demanding reparation.
Times piece about Jon F the Tories Snow
Includes a fallacy if false equivalence: “Left wing have accused BBC of being too rightwing. Ken Loach says Nick Robinson was biased for a tweet…”
When the left wing accuse the bBBC of right wing bias, the bBBC refutes it.
When the right wing (i.e non left wing) accuse the bBBC of left wing bias, the bBBC ignores it.
There’s no such thing as bad publicity.
I think it illustrates just how screwed in the head the Left are.
Too Corbyn the Labour BB Corbyn C of Right Labour Wing Corbyn bias is Labour Corbyn ludicrous!
No surprises here as Barrack, the playboy of the Western World, Obama lives it up on his conned millions:-
“In 2011, a secretive U.S. special operations task force was orbiting a drone above a house in Baghdad, Iraq where they had new intelligence that the notorious terrorist leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi had bunkered down for a meeting with his top ISIS lieutenants. A call went out from our headquarters and then back to higher-ups in the States: we’ve got him, can we take him out?” And thereby hangs a shameful and horrific tale that ain’t over yet.
The possible killing of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi reminds me of this article … Nigeria rejected British offer to rescue seized Chibok schoolgirls.
‘In a mission named Operation Turus, the RAF conducted air reconnaissance over northern Nigeria for several months, following the kidnapping of 276 girls from the town of Chibok in April 2014. “The girls were located in the first few weeks of the RAF mission,” a source involved in Operation Turus told the Observer. “We offered to rescue them, but the Nigerian government declined.”’
Boko Haram (Western education is forbidden) could mean Western help not wanted!
Calais women people smugglers get away with it.
– The judge said he didn’t want to punish the one that bought her boyfriend a boat.
– Hr got asylum in Sheffield and she visits him every fortnight.
– The other one who smuggled migrants in the boot of her landrover ESS given a 6 month suspended sentence.
Calais women people smugglers get away with it.
– The judge said he didn’t want to punish the one that bought her boyfriend a boat.
– He got asylum in Sheffield and she visits him every fortnight.
– The other one who smuggled migrants in the boot of her Rangerover was given a 6 month suspended sentence.
Sloppy as well as obsessed.
Anyone catch the new German Ambassador – on – a – mission this am?
“Of course we have share interests and ideals and will continue to trade post Brexit”.
No reports on the BBC’s online news about PMQs today, so nothing about Saint J’s claim that the Grenfell tower is all the fault of austerity-fixated Tories and the PM pointing out that cladding buildings began during a Labour govt. No reporting of a Tory MP telling the House about the abuse she received from caring Corbyn’s storm troops during the election campaign.
But they do report the session on Northern Ireland, lapping up the hilarious joke by an SNP MP that each DUP MP is worth more than Ronaldo. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40430132 (And the SNP would never screw Westminster for every last penny it could get out of English taxpayers.)
So damn childish.
During the last coalition we wasted money on Clegg’s AV referendum but that was OK.
This pot of money surely benefits NI as a whole, it isn’t going to line the pockets of the DUP. Some of the comments being made are verging on being slanderous.
still a damn sight cheaper than jezbollas stooodent yoof bribe
The bbc also failed to report on PMQs that when corbyn tried to blame the fire on austerity he got mullahd by the PM as changes in building regulations dated back to 2005 when a certain Anthony Blair was PM.
R4 4:30pm #R4MediaShow
@CrispinBlunt MP on Saudi/Qatar fallout; (saudi apologist and JoCox friend)
@JamesFallows on Trump (A Trump hater so of course won’t be talking about CNN, who BTW were on 2 weeks ago saying they are not biased)
@Justine_Roberts founder of Mumsnet* on their own online TV service
(Mumsnet is a sexist title ..It should be ParentsNet, but you can’t be sexist against men apparently)
Mumsnet is also owned and run by diehard Labourites. It’s poison for airheads. No wonder the BBC loves it!
The other reason could be that the founder, Justine Roberts, is married to Ian Katz – Editor of Newsnight.
Interesting new stuff on Grenfell tower.
It appears the dead came from only 23 of the 129 flats. The 23 were between the 11th and 23rd floors. At least one person in the other 106 flats has been contacted, and is therefore alive.
Can we therefore presume most people got out? How, given the inferno? Were the other flats unoccupied?
We won’t know for a while how some survived and some did not, maybe even living on the same floors, but it does suggest that the picture is not as clear as LeftMob would like it to be..
Oops My point was that BBC HardTalk is doing LGBQT again, but that bit of the tweet didn’t show up when I copied that first tweet.
OT, but our Fatima may just have opened up a can of worms that will need serious phobia policing to get the lid shut again.
Lessons will be learnt
Excellent article on bbc bias and malign influence by Damian Thompson of The Speccie in the Sun.
DAMIAN THOMPSON The BBC’s love-in with Jeremy Corbyn has major implications for Britain and needs to stop.
The Beeb may pretend to be above party politics but its tweet accompanying a picture of Jezza addressing a crowd at Glastonbury says otherwise.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3898725/the-bbcs-love-in-with-jeremy-corbyn-has-major-implications-for-britain-and-needs-to-stop/
The Beeb’s love-in with Corbyn has major implications for Britain. That’s because the corporation is a major political player in its own right, though it pretends to be above party politics.
BBC staff at Glastonbury were cheerleaders for the Labour leader, thrilled by his transformation into the political pin-up of gullible millennials.
To listen to the BBC talk about “the media”, you’d assume that it didn’t belong to it. We’re encouraged to believe that the news agenda is distorted by nasty, feral right-wing tabloids.
In contrast, Auntie is painstakingly neutral — a source of friendly yet authoritative wisdom for working people, children, the unemployed, pensioners and ethnic minorities. Such richness and diversity!
Admittedly, it’s true that you can’t ignore the BBC. It is in every home, in every car, on every computer and on every phone.
The BBC praised the Labour leader’s performance at the festival despite claiming to remain politically neutral
But one thing it isn’t is impartial.
The Beeb’s political worldview is as distinctive as that of the Guardian, the Mail or the Morning Star.
It has been firmly left-liberal since the 1980s, when producers and reporters reacted with snooty disdain to Margaret Thatcher and anyone who voted for her.
I say “left-liberal”, as although the BBC is indulgent to the far Left — listen to those Socialist Workers Party-supporting “comedians” on Radio 4 — its executives have been far too busy air- kissing at gallery openings to join the likes of Corbyn at mass rallies.
Something changed, however, when Britain voted for Brexit.
Nothing was dearer to the heart of BBC bosses than the European Union.
They felt deliciously at ease in the company of the politically correct, Chablis-swilling bureaucrats of Brussels.
So on the morning of June 24 last year, Auntie had a nervous breakdown.
Huw Edwards’ face was as black as thunder as he announced the unthinkable news.
Since then, the corporation has been going through the mourning process.
Denial (Brexit can be stopped!) has given way to anger (rot in hell, Brexiteers).
Over the past year, BBC News has more or less given up the pretence of impartiality.
For example, we’re informed that every upturn in the economy has happened “despite Brexit”.
And this suited hardline Tory Remainers down to the ground — there were no complaints about bias from George Osborne or Anna Soubry.
Since the election disaster, however, the Beeb has treated pro-EU Conservatives with the same contempt as their pro-Brexit opponents.
Huw Edwards failed to hide his disapproval as he announced Brexit decision to the nation in June last year
Suddenly, everything is the fault of the Tories. After the Grenfell tragedy, Theresa May was interviewed by Emily Maitlis, who demanded that the Government accept that the fire was “our fault”.
Maitlis seemed positively unhinged. The PM, for once, was speaking from the heart, but she was shouted down.
Neither Maitlis nor her Newsnight colleagues are natural Corbynistas, although the programme’s former economics editor, Paul Mason, turns out to have been a far-left fanatic all along.
What’s going on? My theory is that the BBC, which cares far more about the EU than any political party, has decided that a Corbyn government is the only way of destroying Brexit.
And so, as we saw at Glastonbury before the tweet was subsequently deleted, it is busy promoting the Labour leader as the “real” winner of the General Election.
That is a fiction, of course, but then so is the Beeb’s carefully cultivated image as a benign national referee.
As the rest of the national media loses readership and advertisers, and local newspapers continue their inexorable stagger towards obsolescence, the imperial reach of the BBC extends even further into our lives.
Half the British population watches BBC One, a quarter visit a BBC website or use one of its apps.
Compare that to the conservative tabloid newspapers, each of which reaches at most ten per cent of the population either in print or digitally.
And why are local newspapers dying? Because the BBC has enough money to fund regionalised internet news sites as well as radio and telly stations, pushing a pillow down hard over the face of their venerable opposition even as they face their weakest hour.
Who can blame us for tuning in to the Beeb? We are well aware that we’ve already paid for its sprawling content through the compulsory licence fee.
What we’re less aware of is the insidious political influence of the BBC.
We are approaching a stage where — in its arch and disingenuous way — a publicly funded rogue broadcaster may be able to nudge a British government out of office.
And, right now, that is a very frightening prospect indeed.
Damian Thompson is associate editor of The Spectator.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3898725/the-bbcs-love-in-with-jeremy-corbyn-has-major-implications-for-britain-and-needs-to-stop/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40432456/would-more-stop-and-searches-halt-the-rise-in-knife-crime
“Should the Police stop and search more?” Sounds like a question. It’s got a question mark at the end. But obviously it isn’t because there is no HYS.