The German reaction is particularly strong – they know what they're talking about. https://t.co/OlySc6mhCs
— Katty Kay (@KattyKayBBC) August 16, 2017
Shouldn’t the Far-Left also be confronted?…surely Germany knows all about them as well having been under the communist jackboot for half a century, never mind all those millions imprisoned, tortured and killed by Socialists across the world. Maybe that’s just too sophisticated an argument for poor old Katty Kay to get her little head around….best stick to ‘overheated rhetoric and oversimplification’ as well as an egregious display of liberal sanctimony for the benefit of her pals in order to burnish her oh so liberal credentials.
Remarkable hypocrisy as always from the BBC and its fellow travellers as they attack Trump for not singling out extremists on the Right for condemnation..he chose instead, quite rightly, to condemn all those who were violent in Charlottesville. Seems the BBC [h/t Guest Who] thinks he is wrong…they are obviously quite happy to ignore left-wing violence…
My take after returning from a few weeks away. America – diminished and dismissed – BBC News https://t.co/RMGQjbSwKV
— Katty Kay (@KattyKayBBC) August 16, 2017
The BBC brings on dyed-in-the-wool anti-Trump voices to give us a balanced and impartial comment on events in America, such as a Demcorat ex-Mayor of Charlottesville…wonder what he would say. The BBC totally fails to bring any perspective or context to the attacks on Trump…such as the fact that it was the hard left Antifa extremists who instigated the violence…they came well prepared and armed….wearing helmets, masks, carrying sticks, mace, pepper spray and tasers…they threw balloons full of urine, paint and mace at the people in the march.
The BBC tells us that Trump does not want to upset his ‘Base’ by denouncing Nazis, thus dismissing all those who vote for him as extremist racists…no such comments about those British politicians who turned a blind eye to events in Rotherham and Rochdale because they didn’t want to anger their ‘Base’…ie Muslim voters. Similarly with terrorism….they refuse to denounce terrorism and the real roots of that terror, Islam, because they want the Muslim vote….case in point…
Sarah Champion forced out of Jeremy Corbyn’s shadow cabinet after warning Pakistani men are raping white girls
Trevor Phillips says about this….
“We shouldn’t have to have an argument about free speech, what this feels like is what we used to call democratic centralism in the Labour party, in other words Stalinism”.
But of course the likes of Corbyn, the Far Left and the BBC have no problem with Stalinism…just ‘fascism’.
Obama was the same as he refused to talk of Islamic terror in relation to, erm, Islamic terror, not only censoring his own speech but forcing the whole government to do so as well, scrubbing the word ‘Islamic’ from the record.
Then look at this speech following the murder of police officers by Blacks in Dallas…note how there is little condemnation of the killers and indeed there is excuses and explanation…..an astonishing amount of a speech about five murdered policemen devoted to explaining away their killers’ reasons…..
We’re here to honor the memory and mourn the loss of five fellow Americans, to grieve with their loved ones, to support this community, and pray for the wounded, and to try and find some meaning amidst our sorrow.
Like police officers across the country, these men and their families shared a commitment to something larger than themselves. They weren’t looking for their names to be up in lights……No. The reward comes in knowing that our entire way of life in America depends on the rule of law, that the maintenance of that law is a hard and daily labor, that in this country we don’t have soldiers in the streets or militias setting the rules.
Faced with this violence, we wonder if the divides of race in America can ever be bridged. We wonder if an African American community that feels unfairly targeted by police and police departments that feel unfairly maligned for doing their jobs, can ever understand each other’s experience.
I see people who mourn for the five officers we lost, but also weep for the families of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. In this audience, I see what’s possible.
We also know that centuries of racial discrimination, of slavery, and subjugation, and Jim Crow; they didn’t simply vanish with the law against segregation. They didn’t necessarily stop when a Dr. King speech, or when the civil rights act or voting rights act were signed. Race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime. Those who deny it are dishonoring the struggles that helped us achieve that progress. But we know…
But America, we know that bias remains. We know it, whether you are black, or white, or Hispanic, or Asian, or native American, or of Middle Eastern descent, we have all seen this bigotry in our own lives at some point. We’ve heard it at times in our own homes. If we’re honest, perhaps we’ve heard prejudice in our own heads and felt it in our own hearts. We know that. And while some suffer far more under racism’s burden, some feel to a far greater extent discrimination’s stain. Although most of us do our best to guard against it and teach our children better, none of us is entirely innocent. No institution is entirely immune, and that includes our police departments. We know this.
And so when African-Americans from all walks of life, from different communities across the country, voice a growing despair over what they perceive to be unequal treatment, when study after study shows that whites and people of color experience the criminal justice system differently. So that if you’re black, you’re more likely to be pulled over or searched or arrested; more likely to get longer sentences; more likely to get the death penalty for the same crime. When mothers and fathers raised their kids right, and have the talk about how to respond if stopped by a police officer — yes, sir; no, sir — but still fear that something terrible may happen when their child walks out the door; still fear that kids being stupid and not quite doing things right might end in tragedy.
When all this takes place, more than 50 years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act, we cannot simply turn away and dismiss those in peaceful protest as troublemakers or paranoid.
Perhaps the BBC should take Obama’s advice and stop using ‘overheated rhetoric and oversimplification’ demonising all on the Right as the ‘enemy’ and failng to properly report on the issues….
With an open heart, we can abandon the overheated rhetoric and the oversimplification that reduces whole categories of our fellow Americans, not just opponents, but to enemies.
I think the reason that National Socialists are regarded as Right-Wing, is because they lost the war with the Soviet Socialists, who were on our side, as were most of the Labour Socialists, with the exception of Oswald Mosley and his supporters. But no right-wing person would ever think of joining a political party with the word socialism in its title.
I think the term “Orwellian ideology” should be used to describe the Politically Correct thinking of Socialist ideology, which comprises of an inferior thinking process that turns wishful thinking, into producing assumptions, which are then treated as facts, to the point of violence, and eventually mass murder.
Being trained to think using the scientific method would help to alleviate this inferior thinking process.
Also the Fascists were originally nicer than the Nazis because they were much more tolerant of the Jews. In fact many Jews were Fascists. But then as the Fascists in Italy began to lose the war, they became more and more dependent on the Nazis for support, pressurising the Fascists to turn to anti-Semitism, and eventually ending up as ideologically identical to the mass murdering National Socialists. But then the mass murdering Soviet Socialists, and their puppets in the west, clamed to be Internationalists, dividing the Labour Party into patriotic Nationalists and unpatriotic Internationalists, and making the patriotic right-wing the main supporters of nationalist democracy. So Nationalism is now Right-Wing.
If the Swamp are condemning Trump for condemning all sides who use violence, then that could be because left-wing violence is funded by the Swamp, using taxpayers money. Proving that the Swamp are the evil International Socialist inheritors of the above Orwellian ideology.
Richard, I think you are right about the ‘right-wing’ label attached to the Nazis, the ‘winners’ get to write the history so the wrongs of the Soviets have been ignored. (It also helps that Soviet Russia was a closed country to the rest of the world, there were no liberation armies stumbling upon concentration camps there).
It is my belief that there are several axes in politics. One of these is collectivism versus individualism, another is internationalism versus nationalism. The communists in Russia and the nazis in Germany were both collectivists, just look at the way both engaged in mass rallies with their peoples apparently all of one mind. The Russians believed that their doctine could be exported hence they were internationalists; the Germans believed that the German people had a moral character not shared by everyone, (race theory), so were nationalists.
Unfortunately the collectivist internationalists have been allowed to define the political battleground. It is as if they occupy the North Pole and to them everyone else is ‘South’. Politics has become one-dimensional, every other axis has been collapsed onto the ‘left’ ‘nice’ collectivists versus the ‘far right’ ‘nasty’ collectivists line, there is literally no place for individualism, i.e. thinking for oneself. This is why the daft bat Mrs. May is terrified of leading a ‘nasty’ party so she hovers outside the gates of Corbynism and like Cameron is terrified of being labelled ‘fascist’, hence Cameron’s support of the UAF thugs and her moral posturing with the Antifa thugs in the USA.
I like the fact that the “nice” individualist ideologies of Libertarianism and Classical Liberalism, are now classed as Right-Wing.
But I realised that Teresa May was a first class fool when she used the left-wing description of her own party as the “Nasty Party”.
It’s a statement that only the mind of a worthless politically unprincipled careerist Tory party member could issue.
Jim S
“(It also helps that Soviet Russia was a closed country to the rest of the world, there were no liberation armies stumbling upon concentration camps there)”
The Katyn wood massacre being the exception. In that case, the “liberation army” was, of course, the Germans under Operation Barbarossa.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/world-war-two-and-eastern-europe/the-katyn-wood-massacre/
So, I awake and head to Facebook to catch up with the kids on their global adventure pre uni, and what is the first ‘story’ I encounter from BBC ‘News’:
“Donald Trump said “both sides” were to blame for the violence in Charlottesville over the weekend.
Does that statement ring true to a BBC journalist who was there on the ground?”
The “ringing of truth” to a BBC journalist May to more than a few sound like the BBC putting opinion ahead of fact via that famous edit suite of theirs.
….and…
“Businesses have been under pressure to distance themselves from President Donald J. Trump over his handling of the clashes in Charlottesville.”
This ‘pressure’ BBC, from whom would this primarily be originating?
…and…
“This is America. Not Nazi Germany!” – A woman in North Carolina who confronted her neighbour for flying a Nazi flag.
*This video contains strong language and rude hand gestures*
Flying a Nazi flag does indeed sound more than rude. Provocative even. But the process by which such a video gets to the front pages of the U.K. National broadcaster is intriguing.
And one may wonder how the BBC would treat footage supplied of any more local flag waving confrontations?
Not helpful?
The BBC’s entire US reporting crew are solely there to denigrate Trump. The fact is that the vioence would not occur unless so-called anti-fascists turned up at every right wing meeting. Trump is making this simple point and I havent heard him use the phrase ‘moral equivalence’ once, although the BBC accuses him of it.
Yah think?
Seems Katty is trying to trump Mishal on the tally front.
England,
Considering the Americans have ready access to guns I am surprised that no one has taken to the trigger yet to defend their southern culture . Al beeb must be hoping with baited breath so that they can distract the gullible from the evil of Islam
Just noticed the header to the BBC Facebook page. It comprises six panels.
First, and most prominent, is an EU flag and EU hat. Next some chap with a bicycle wheel . Then a feminist. One hard to make out. A possibly diverse ‘Hope’ chap… And… a lady in a Union flag hijab.
I went to Google images to seek this, but sadly the only thing on offer was BBC Facebook Somali.
Seems… representative.
From the advertiser, a beauty.
“Centrists attack the left, but they are the true extremists – Owen Jones”
Heterosexuals are the new perverts, that is better Owen.
No charge for my translation services.
Mass murdering Maoists are the new peacemakers.
Nappy-wearing Owenites are the new children.
Maxinconies are the new intellectuals.
Four legs good, two legs bad – Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Russian Communists and German National Socialists were not opposite (given their similarity such a claim is absurd) they were rivals. When the Communists invaded Countries formerly run by Fascists, it was the supporters of Fascism who most easily became the supporters of Communism. The opposite of a totalitarian society is a free society, not another sort of totalitarian society.
The opposite of moral nihilism is moral objectivism, not another sort of nihilism. The Left in the USA are called Liberals because when freedom becomes an end in itself, it leads to nihilism, which gives you no grounds from which to oppose the State, whose advocates (on the grounds that we can re-make society into anything we want) seek to create a new order.
Within the English (as opposed to the Continental tradition) freedom is not an end in itself, it is a means to the end of pursuing objective values. Giving people the freedom to pursue truth was not justified on the basis that there is no such thing as truth, it was justified on the grounds that a free society helps individuals and institutions discover what is true and what is false.
It was England that created the modern world. German and Russian collectivism was a romantic reaction to modernity, a desire to return back to the pre-modern. Not on Catholic grounds but on secular grounds. They did not want to be pre-England, they wanted to be post-England. Not pre-modernity but post-modernity. This dream of course was a catastrophic failure.
Political correctness is just the latest version if it – there are no objective values and therefore all discrimination should be aggressively policed, with a view to creating a utopia in which nobody is any better than anybody else.
According to Soviet textbooks Fascism is nationalistic while Communism is international, but in reality Russian communists were as nationalistic as the Nazi’s, as were the Chinese and Korean and Vietnamese Communists. The common enemy was capitalism. When Hitler broke his pact and invaded Russia, the Soviet propaganda machine promoted the notion that Communism and Fascism are opposites. This of course is the line followed by the BBC. As I said before Fascism and Communism are just two different varieties of the revolutionary collectivism that arose from the French Revolution. If it was 1800 the BBC would be on the side of Robespierre and Napoleon.
We (which is to say our ancestors) defeated Philip II, we defeated Louis XIV, we defeated Napoleon, we defeated the Kaiser, we defeated Hitler, we defeated the Soviet Union, the pre-French Revolution form of Collectivism was Catholic, the post-French Revolution form of Collectivism was Communism. The apocalyptic millenarian roots of its revolutionary utopianism (the desire to destroy society and re-create it anew) are not hard to find. The results are always the same, catastrophe. Cultural Marxism (as promoted by the BBC) is just the latest version of this catastrophe.
In a nutshell, a very good summary.
Wild,
Top post !
Wild
Excellent comment. Will save it for future reference.
Thank you.
Anyone on the left of politics that likes taking a swipe at the DM needs to read it’s article on Antifa, it is truly sickening.
The irony of the DM showing them as anti fascists when at the same time you see the DM photos with ‘Anarchist’ flags and ‘Hammer and sickle’ ( should that be sick ) flags.
Our alleged conservative PM on her return from a four week holiday.. I would have thought she would be talking about Brexit our most pressing issue, but no she sees fit to condemn the ‘right’ in America and says ‘there is no equivalence between the Nazis and those that oppose them’. If she really believes this she is rather frighteningly even dimmer than I thought.
NB Alan, great point about the communist regime of East Germany, I’d forgotten that, probably because the BBC forgot to remind me periodically that communism is equally totalitarian!!
Jerry,
Treezers dimness knows no bounds.
The Communists built a wall in Berlin and shot people who tried to escape. The name given to the wall was the Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart (German: Antifaschistischer Schutzwall) by GDR authorities, implying that the NATO countries and West Germany in particular were considered equal to fascists who had to be kept out.. Yes. We, who liberated Germany from Hitlers Fascists turn out to be the fascists. And now Antifa carry on with that tradition with Treezers blessing
but no she sees fit to condemn the ‘right’ in America and says ‘there is no equivalence between the Nazis and those that oppose them’. If she really believes this she is rather frighteningly even dimmer than I thought.
When I heard her statement, I did think she is far dimmer then I first estimated. She definitely aint Margaret Thatcher.
Worse she has stepped into a highly charged debate in America. Even an idiot, if a national leader, should know that this is a big mistake. This will not be forgot by Donald Trump, or for that matter conservatives in the USA. What did she hope to gain for the UK? What is in it for us? Did she think that America will sit and up and take notice?
Maybe they will, and abandon us altogether, leaving us to beg the EU to Remain.
.
NCBBC – absolutely, May’s idiotic comment will come back and bite not only her but all of us in the arse. The curse of modern politicians is ‘fashion’ soundbites. If she said it in the hopes of attracting some lefty votes/BBC support then she’s unprincipled and playing a dangerous game slighting the US president.
If she actually believes what she said then I would rather have Corbyn in for a few years of Venezuela style mayhem so that something better might hopefully emerge from the ashes. If the tories haven’t ditched her by the end of the year I predict we’ll be on course for project Remain to claim victory.
imaynotalwaysloveyou
I really do think its time for May to be ditched. Every moment she is in no: 10, our situation gets worse. It will end with us having to do a reverse Dunkirk. But even that may not be possible as she is burning all our boats.
I think the BBC simply gets more Orwellian by the day, but the irony is that they are totally unaware of their bias… or is that just the humble (suicide squad) foot soldiers of the Jihad, like Krazy Kabbage?
Once again what Trump said, admittedly in his usually abrasive and somewhat inarticulate style, was fundamentally, provably correct – the far left are every bit as aggressive as the far right, both are equally reprehensible, equally vile to any right (err… should that be ‘correct’?) thinking person.
The ‘far right’ protest in Charlottesville was triggered by plans to remove a much loved (by many traditionally minded and presumably mainly ‘white’ southern US residents) statue of the famous/infamous (depending on which State, and what colour skin, you happened to be born in) General Lee. That General Lee is seen to represent a ‘race hate’ figure by black people is fair enough, I don’t know enough about his life to know if this is justified, or not, but to demand, undemocratically, that this statue, presumably paid for by the ‘good people of Charlottesville’ at some point in their past, be torn down to suit some trendy PC agenda is extremely high handed and unreasonable behaviour. I’m definitely not ‘far right’, or ‘racist’, but I object very strongly to plans to remove time honoured statues and paintings from UK colleges (Oxford, Cambridge…) simply to placate ignorant and loud mouthed PC thugs, so I can empathise with those who want to preserve their own history!
The first tragedy is that many of those who turned up to protest were members of the loony ‘far right’, e.g. extremists and racists, but maybe more moderate and reasonable people were scared off by…
The ‘far left’ who had gathered en masse to terrify and intimidate those protesting about the removal of the statue, and included many clearly violent, loud, and confrontational individuals.
The second tragedy is that the Charlottesville authorities didn’t do more to keep the more violent members of both sides separated, and instead allegedly took a back seat with buckets of popcorn to watch ‘the fun’.
The third tragedy is that a woman lost her life when some maniac deliberately drove his car into a crowd, that is very sad, and deserves to be treated as a criminal act of the worst kind.
However, the fourth, and to my mind greatest, tragedy is that the MSM haven’t followed Trump’s lead on this and condemned both sides – equally – for the violence, which would be the fair, just and wise thing to do. Instead they’ve opted to attack one side as ‘Nazis’ (inaccurate and untrue), and to turn the other into blameless victims (again inaccurate and untrue). All it can do is inflame and aggravate an already sore point.
The Left is trying to demonise all who voted for Pres Trump. If Pres Trump did what the Far Left like CNN, WaPO and NYT are demanding, he would split the country for good. The “United” States of America will come to an end.
Right thinking Americans should be grateful that Pres Trump is in office. Anyone else might have buckled, and the end of the “United” State of America would be nigh.
The BBC interviewed a Black American lady, along with a young White Democratic woman. The former realised the danger of a split in the USA, and was a vigorous supporter of the First and Second Amendments, without which America would not be America – with freedom for all, including Blacks. She was a strong supporter Pres Trump.
The White woman was a standard brainwashed Lefty. Light and froth.
Big,
Lee was a very complex personality. But in 1856 he wrote in a letter that slavery is a “moral and political evil “. That had not stopped him having slaves himself and marrying into a slave-owning family. But it would never be quoted by the Left and BBC. Just does not fit the narrative. The Left, always see the world in black and white, so to speak. “4 legs good, 2 legs bad “. Saves them having to trouble their simple little ” minds ” with thinking.
If I remember my history correctly, before the Civil War commenced, Lee was offered command of the Union forces. He was torn between the two sides but, he chose to be patriotic. It’s far too simplistic and ignorant to say the South was fighting for slavery…they were fighting for independence.
country,
Quite right. You know more about the history than the BBC, but that is not saying much ! Yes, many Americans were torn between the two sides, even within families. Many Southerners were Unionists . But the ignorant BBC do not know the history and they are too lazy and stupid to find out , even if they wanted to. They have their simple-minded narrative and stick to it. Teenagers who never grow up.
Grant, Country,
Thanks for the further info. on Lee, he’s not someone I knew anything about, US history has never really been an interest of mine, but I’ve been doing a bit of research and I agree with your comments about him being a complex, sometimes conflicted, personality, and far more interesting than you’d think from the kind of potted history you get on Wiki, or from the BBC.
Don’t you think many of these ‘great men’ whose statues are currently being torn down were actually far more complex personalities than their usual portrayal? For good, or ill, or probably a bit of both, they were all a significant part of our history and deserve to be remembered.
I have to agree (again) with Trump, editing out those parts of history you don’t like, is not going to make a better, more tolerant world, in fact, if anything the complete opposite. Those statues remind us these people existed, give us a reason to learn about them and what they stood for and did, and to talk about those things, and even if you think they were evil, knowing about them has got to be a good thing, hasn’t it? If we edit Hitler out of our history books, who he was and what he did will be forgotten by the next generation, and that could lead to it all being repeated…
Lee wanted to defend his home state Virginia rather than side with the US Government, but it’s true he was offered the Union command at the start of hostilities. The US Civil War is a fascinating story and Ken Burns TV series is very good if a little sentimental.
I would especially recommend the Teaching Company/Great Courses lectures by Gary Gallagher, which to my mind gives a fair and straightforward narrative of the war.
http://www.thegreatcourses.co.uk/courses/american-civil-war.html
It’s a bit pricey buying from the website, seeing as it’s just the lecturer talking with some photo visuals and some maps, but you can also get it much cheaper from Audible (audio only of course).
I’ll always remember the apocryphal tale of southern general Braxton Bragg, who was so pernickety, argumentative and a martinet that (whilst acting as both CO and Quartermaster) he even countermanded his own request for supplies to his troops!
Joan Baez – The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down
Robert E lee is mentioned in this song, the figure at the centre of the tragedy in Charlotville. Joan Baez is not a right winger- far from it, but here she laments the death of a loved family member, as the forces of Sherman tore into the South.
The civil was a very complex. It was, as most civil wars, a war within the family. Many in the south were against slavery, while many in the north owned slaves, and yet they fought for the side they were born and brought up in. The Extreme Left is now trying to burn the family- all of it. That is what the Left does always, to remove the link between the present and the past. That is what the communists did in Russia and China, where they mass murdered 150 million at the least. The anti-Fa are the descendants of Mao, Stalin and Hitler.
What next, will the anti-fa and their allies in the US government remove the statues of Andrew Jackson?
The fascist/communist Left is trying to destroy the USA – the last citadel of freedom in the West. Europe has already been captured by the EU.
Only Pres Donald Trump fights on – alone against the baying hounds of communist/Leftists. . Please pray for him.
Here is a bit of irony.
This piece of America was sent to the leftists to defeat fascism.
[url=https://postimg.org/image/e46rvjxwp/]
[/url]
The Far left has shut down free speech – even in America, as shown in incidents in many universities.
Over here, the Left has used violence to attack anyone who mentioned that Muslims were raping tens of thousands of White girls. All the media and politicians were simply blackmailed or coerced into keeping mum. Thus all of them are complicit in brutal gang rape and sex slavery on an industrial scale.
And now this
Corbyn’s cabinet in CHAOS as Sarah Champion resigns over child abuse controversy
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/841973/Jeremy-Corbyn-shadow-cabinet-Sarah-Champion-resigned-women-equalities-secretary
She was forced to resign.
Tens of thousands of young White girls have been raped by Muslims – not Asians or Pakistanis but by Muslims.
And yet that fact has been suppressed for decades.
We don’t seem to realise that these rapes were an act of war. Muslims believe that they have conquered Britain, and thus as victorious soldiers they have the right to rape the defeated. Its in the Koran – Google ” gifts of the right hand”.
Guess what; she has reawakened….
BBC ‘News’ on Facebook:
“Donald Trump’s controversial chief strategist turns on white nationalists as the Charlottesville fallout continues.”
Interesting editorial descriptive structure.
One that has garnered a fair blow back from readers a little fed up with the BBC being utterly bent.
Meanwhile a Muslim has plowed a truck in the busiest part of Barcelona – 12 people killed, and some 80 seriously injured.
Some two years ago I was in Barcelona. At the time there was a spate of bloody Islamic attacks in France. The people of Barcelona though were of course signaling their virtue by welcoming Muslims – ” Muslims welcome” they bannered all over the city.
BBC Outside Source at 8 pm managed to find two Muslims in Barcelona, and only these two and no one else, to comment on the latest mass killing by Muslims. What the BBS was signaling was that they had now gone beyond “This has nothing to do with Islam” and into the new narrative – that Muslims are now the new Europeans. Muslims have achieved this by industrial scale gang rape, mass criminality, terrorism, and mass Benefit fraud – all part and parcel of Jihad, while our politicians blather on about Diversity.
Her latest offering:
I’m offended and upset when I see the hammer and sickle, the symbol of 100 million murders. I’m also upset and offended when I see people wearing Che Guevara, the serial murderer and racist, tee shirts. I’m also offended when I see the EU flag.
All these should be banned. So should the Labour Party as I also get offended when I see candidates with red rosettes in this country.
That should have been on a thread about the eradication of Confederate and Slave-owner statues.