– the intro to a packaged piece by Carole Walker on BBC Breakfast News at 8am this morning. Yet again, nowhere in the package is it mentioned that the people who are ‘detained without trail’ are free to leave the UK at any time (for any other country that will take them – not just their home countries with the allegedly dodgy human rights records).
All that is needed to cover this story satisfactorily are seven extra words “foreign terrorist suspects who cannot be deported for legal reasons“.
Why is it so difficult for BBC journalists to grasp (and mention) this essential aspect of this story? Are they ignorant? Don’t they pay attention to such details? Or is this detail just inconvenient?
Pal? Don’t refer to me as a brand of dog food, chum.
Depends on your definition of the ultimate pointless term of abuse, ‘chattering classes’. If it refers to the well dress, well read chaps to be found chattering over premium beverages and food in quality establishments or their immaculate homes in upmarket North London locations then no matter how putrid your jealousy they are successful and intelligent. The opportunities are there.
Conversely, those festering in grim suburbs with mediocre jobs can blame their predicament on immigrants and the EU, encouraged by the lovely Melanie Phillips, but unfortunately they should have tried harder at school.
There are of course relatively successful people who are dim but well connected or just got lucky. Some of these have taken advantage of beaurocratic fiascos in the public services and have developed political correctness. Others have taken advantage of the occasional randomness and crap management structures of the private sector and have grasped free market economics (LOW TAX LOW TAX) like an alcoholic with a can of special brew.
OP
Nice weather on your planet today?
You sound like the result of a drunken liason between Will Hutton and Polly Toynbee.
Who was dropped on his head at birth.
Then dropped again.
OP the arrogance displayed in those comments is astounding. Have you been taking lessons from the American Democratic Party?
Who’s talking about journalists? There are of course niche markets for writing the sort of crap which Toynbee(always) and Hutton (usually) spouts. But you carry on in your belief that a countryside alliance led revolution will overthrow Blair and re-install Mrs T for an everlasting free market utopia. You won’t be bothering anyone.
Andrew, arrogance maybe (and I wouldn’t touch the Democratic party with a barge pole), but what about the arrogance of those who share Melanie Phillip’s belief that the entire country is a sh*thole and that they and their mates know the answer. Plenty of people live happily in a Britain that is actually pretty damn good in comparison with virtually anywhere. They haven’t got there by accident, so who are the fools?
Melanie Phillip’s views are best summarised by herself:
http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles/archives/000041.html
Try and deal with her arguments on a factual basis and get back. I apply this to Robert Frisk (arch left wing baffoon and Bin Laden’s fave hack)and take him apart all the time.
My main problem with Melanie is not with the problems she so frequently identifies (albeit ludicrously exaggerates). Few rational people would argue that, for example, education these days is crap, that family groups offer the best support for children, or that immigrants should not be offered special treatment over British people.
My issue is that, like the boring bloke in the office who moans about everything but has no constructive ideas to offer, she doesn’t have any solutions other than some sort of wholly unrealistic religious renaissance. If she had practical ideas she’d be useful. As it is she only encourages stupid people to blame bogeymen for their lack of success rather than focussing on their own shortcomings – much like Toynbee and the ‘forces of capitalism’. It’s plain lazy.
I notice, for example that her top article refers to a mildly undiplomatic comment made by a British ambassador about a ‘Jewish lobby’ in Washington. Rather than a poorly expressed reference to the unhelpful US approach to the conflict this is apparantly the precurser to a full scale outbreak of anti-semitic hysteria in Britain. Never mind that every Jew that I’m aquainted with has a perfectly pleasant and unmolested life.
Mel is the mirror image of the PC, socialist/anarchist/environmentalist cretins of the left. Any idiot can spot a problem and make noise – it takes intellect to retain proportion and solve things.
‘unhelpful US approach to the conflict’.
It’s ‘unhelpful’ to those who wish to destroy Israel that’s for sure. I personally find the EU providing large funds directly or indirectly to Muslim terrorist groups in the region a far more reasonable cause for complaint.
I’m afraid the comment wasn’t ‘mildly undiplomatic’ but is the epitome of the anti-semitic, xenophobic frame of mind that ‘the left’ inhabits. The Foreign Office is profoundly ‘arabist’ so this comment is of little suprise, however it doesn’t excuse its insinuations.
I rest my case. The whole thing is a screamathon aided and abetted by the incompetence and vested interests of the EU and US. ‘Terrorists!’ ‘Occupiers!’ ‘Jew haters!’ ‘Child killers!’ ‘Throw Israel into the sea!’ ‘Annexe the left bank!’ ‘Rangers!’ ‘Celtic!’.
But those people have real problems. Reading Melanie you’d have thought that Britain in 2004 makes facing suicide bombers/bulldozers look like a piece of piss.
Mmmm not sure if I get your point. The extremes that have developed concerning the Middle East question aren’t the reason for the charged situation they’re symptoms of it.
To use one of your examples, Rangers’ and Celtic’s religously affiliated hatred for one another is a product of the deeply rooted historical divide in Northern Ireland, it isn’t a reason for that divide.
I think that’s very true when considering the views of those directly involved and I don’t think that will ever alter. Indisputably the Israelis and Arabs will never come to a mutually acceptable interpretation of the historical facts and ‘rights’. That’s not to say that either side is ‘wrong’ and I personally couldn’t blame an Israeli for hating Arabs (as represented by the Palestinian organisations) or vice versa.
In my view the only possible solution is to bully both sides into some resemblence of a ‘neutral’ outcome and then come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who comes out of line. My point is that the establishment of the concept of a ‘neutral’ position by third parties is hindered by those who piggy pack onto the extremities of one side or another in order to justify their childish political philosphy. Hence the Isareli and Palestinian flags flown at Auld Firm games.
I agree with much of that. When it comes to historical facts and ‘rights’ however I do believe it is possible to come to a reasonable conclusion aside from acceptance by the parties involved. The key is of course to counter any disagreements with constant reference to well researched and broad facts. When it comes to certain political ideologies I find this process is not adhered to. Knowing the facts and not ‘airbrushing’ them, I feel it should be impossible to consider Arafat a ‘hero’ for example, yet it has been widespread from certain quarters. I cannot help but question the mindset of such people.
OP
“In my view the only possible solution is to bully both sides into some resemblence of a ‘neutral’ outcome and then come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who comes out of line.”
You show a gross ignorance of the facts as they actually are. Its quite simple; if the Palestinians put down their guns they shall have peace,if the Israelis put down their guns they will be wiped out. Israel has always offered them peace, the Palestinian intent is to wipe Israel off the map.
To stand in the middle and uccuse both sounds may seem as if it makes you reasoned and thoughtful, but the truth is still the truth.
OP
You really talk a load of equivocating rubbish. If you can’t recognise blatant anti-semitism from a senior UK diplomat, and if you object to a journalist drawing attention to it and complaining thatg there has been no come-back, you really have no sense of history.
Just like the BBC these days.
There is a clear distinction which can be drawn between those on the “right” as I would describe myself, and those way out on the right per the BNP (and I’ve visited their website to check, OK Ghost!)
Jews are of the West, as we (normal, reasonable people) would understand. They share our desire for legitimate, legal foundations of human rights e.g. the IDF obeys rulings from the Israeli Supreme Court as concerns the routing of the separationist fence (wall), whereas in their neighbouring Muslim lands, there is no such concept. Result: all of Israel’s neighbours are failed states in that they cannot feed themselves or generate economic activity to gainfully engage their burgeoning populations. The BBC deliberately distorts this fundamental fact.
Melanie Phillips is actually a ‘progressive’
http://pws.prserv.net/mpjr/mp/ns0100.htm