46 Responses to Justin time for Fox News?

  1. DFH says:

    That all looks a bit familiar.


  2. Ashley Pomeroy says:

    It’s notable that the second chap, Mr Progressive Gold – which sounds like the kind of radio station that might play selections from Jon Anderson’s classic 1976 album “Olias of Sunhillow” – doesn’t bother to argue Justin Webb’s points at all.

    His thought process goes from the raw material to the conclusion without the reasonining or debate that should shape the conclusion.


  3. Cockney says:

    Slightly irrelevant, but I’m convinced that Progressive Gold used to DJ with Trafford Lovething at the Man Alive club in Manchester in the mid 90s. How the mighty have fallen.


  4. Ian Barnes says:



    how Galloway got away with his lurid connections and very dodgy dealings i’ll never know..

    perhaps something to do with him spilling the beans on others connected to the whole thing??


  5. TAoL says:

    “It’s notable that the second chap, Mr Progressive Gold – which sounds like the kind of radio station that might play selections from Jon Anderson’s classic 1976 album “Olias of Sunhillow” – doesn’t bother to argue Justin Webb’s points at all.”

    LOL! Ask him.

    Ask him if he can make any sense of Jon Anderson’s lyrics* too. If he claims he can, he must be a loon and can be safely ignored.

    * An example: Sing, bird of prey/Beauty begins at the foot of you. Do you believe the manner?/Gold stainless nail/Torn through the distance of man/As they regard the summit.

    (Yes – Siberian Khatru)


  6. Ian Barnes says:



    the current joke of a govt has alot of answering to do:

    HMS Grafton is only 9 years old, it should be in service for just under 30 years, but is being sold!

    Cost cutting too far. Blair will live to regret it when he needs the Navy.


  7. Rick says:

    Lord Blair of Goldman Sachs living in New York and trousering a £5 million advance from Harper (Rupert Murdoch) Collins for his memoirs won’t bother too much if the Royal Navy has just two aircraft carriers with no aircraft and no frigates………he will be attending Georgetown parties with his delightful wife freeloading on a US scale.

    Lord Brown of PFI Largesse Plc will return to The Dark Tower north of the border and brood as the all-seeing eye scouts out anyone who dares critique his memoirs serialised by the BBC in 500 x 3 hour episodes narrated by Kirsty Wark and performed by Robby Coltrane as Hagrid and Gimli from Lord of The Rings


  8. Rob Read says:


    There’s nothing magic about the Enron chancellor.


  9. Rick says:

    Not even black magic ?


  10. Rick says:

    Actually Enron was such as obvious scam I cannot fathom why noone exposed it – I mean Houston Natural Gas was the real name of the company, a bit like Centrica it was a gas-pipeline business competing with Coastal Corp and suffering regulation on interstate business…………all Jeff Skilling did was to find a few sexy dot-com issues to attract Wall Street – but at its core it was just a gas pipeline company pretending to be an energy trader like Phibro-Salomon under John Gufreund.

    Brown has just dusted off the old trick of not capitalising leases by making them look like operating leases but hiding the repurchase clause; that Gilts are now down to 0.57% because of a shortage shows how expensive PFI is when borrowing at commercial rates for banks to do deal-flipping and extract equity up-front.

    In each case The City keeps stumm because it is “a nice little earner” and when it all unravels it will be described as “complex” by goofy journalists who cannot subtract or add let alone multiply.


  11. archduke says:

    “iranians blame uk for bombings”

    of course, the bbc tv news never even mentioned the iranian bombings when they happened yesterday morning.

    and its not exactly “breaking news” – the iranians were blaming the UK right after bombings.


  12. Ashley Pomeroy says:

    “Sing, bird of prey/Beauty begins at the foot of you”.

    The same album contains the couplet “A seasoned witch could call you from the depths of your disgrace / and rearrange your liver to the solid mental grace”, which makes no sense at all.

    I couldn’t find any stories on BBC News about Yes, although I reckon that if BBC News was to do a story about Yes it would be a biased story, probably telling everything from Rick Wakeman’s point of view.

    However I have found that cover artist Roger Dean reported on Tanzania in 2000:

    “We have a propensity for starting and joining all kinds of organisations, the result was that we were spending more time in conferences than implementing the decisions”, says President Mkapa.

    The report seems to be a favourable story about Tanzania privatising “creaky” state-run businesses. Mkapa was replaced in December last year by his foreign minister and Tanzania seems to be relatively stable and normal. According to the BBC’s timeline Tanzania is the reason why Idi Amin was kicked out of Uganda in 1979, as Uganda had tried to invade Tanzania and Tanzania had fought back (really well).

    If you were to put a geographic map of Africa in front of me I would be unable to tell you where Tanzania is, apart from that it is next to Uganda. And I would be unable to tell you where Uganda is.


  13. Little L says:

    The BBC spin on the weather to try to convince us all that global warming is 10 times worse than it is is just getting ridiculous now.

    They have decided to miss the temperatures out for mainland Europe completely now. Fox reported it will be -9 in France during the day today. As that doesn’t fit in the with the BBCs global warming propoganda model they just miss it out completely now.


  14. Andrew Marr's minder says:

    I saw this and thought of you:

    I suspect what you object to is the failure of the BBC [] to publish right-wing opinions as if they were facts. Scratch any criticism of the BBC’s objectivity, and this is what you find: anger at its failure to privilege the critic’s subjective view. There is a popular notion that it’s fine for the media to be biased – it’s a market place, and we can all pick which set of biases we want to watch/read. This is a woeful attitude. All reporters, all news organisations, have a duty to report the facts and tell the truth. This is why you are forced, at jailpoint, to pay for the BBC – if you weren’t, where would you, or any of us, be able to go to get actual news, to get facts reported factually, rather than spin, opinion and innuendo?

    Face facts, you’d be happy to pay your TV licence if the Beeb had the same editorial slant as the TelAviv-egraph


  15. Anonymous says:

    Face facts, you’d be happy to pay your TV licence if the Beeb had the same editorial slant as the TelAviv-egraph

    And you’d be riled about paying for it if it didn’t have a Guardianesque outlook.


  16. D Burbage says:

    “Two British MPs have tabled motions in the House of Commons criticising the BBC’s decision to scrap the early morning UK Theme on Radio 4. ”

    as opposed to err, French MPs?


  17. TomL says:

    “I suspect what you object to is the failure of the BBC [] to publish right-wing opinions as if they were facts.”

    No, I object to the BBC publishing left wing opinion as if they were facts.

    “Scratch any criticism of the BBC’s objectivity, and this is what you find: anger at its failure to privilege the critic’s subjective view.”

    No, you will find anger at it’s failure to publish anyone’s point of view except their own.

    “There is a popular notion that it’s fine for the media to be biased – it’s a market place, and we can all pick which set of biases we want to watch/read.”

    I don’t think it’s fine for the media to be biased. Especially when I am forced to pay for it. I think you missed the point of this site.

    “This is a woeful attitude.”

    Yours is a naive attitude.

    “All reporters, all news organisations, have a duty to report the facts and tell the truth.”

    As I said, naïve. Where on earth did you pick that idea up? Pravda?

    “This is why you are forced, at jailpoint, to pay for the BBC – if you weren’t, where would you, or any of us, be able to go to get actual news, to get facts reported factually, rather than spin, opinion and innuendo”

    Yup, jail me for the good of the country. Let me go over that again…….They have a duty to report the facts, and that is why I am forced to pay for the BBC?

    Is that right? But you said “All Journalists have a duty to report the facts…….”

    I don’t pay non-BBC journos…….so they don’t tell the truth? Is that what you are saying?

    “Face facts, you’d be happy to pay your TV licence if the Beeb had the same editorial slant as the TelAviv-egraph”


    Andrew Marr’s minder | 25.01.06 – 1:57 pm | #



  18. Ashley Pomeroy says:

    “Face facts, you’d be happy to pay your TV licence if the Beeb had the same editorial slant as the TelAviv-egraph.”

    I disagree. I would hate the Daily Telegraph if it was compulsory. If I was forced to buy a copy every time I go into a newsagent and buy some spearmint gum. If I was prosecuted for failing to buy a copy. Perhaps you believe that The People have a Right to have News and that this Right should be enforced with taxation for the Good of The People etc, but I disagree. I believe that, when it comes to news and entertainment, people should have the right to choose The Sun and anothing but The Sun if they so desire.

    I love cream cakes and I eat them every chance I get. But I would hate cream cakes if I was forced to pay for them every time I had a meal.

    I would hate cream cakes if I was forced to pay for them every time I bought some paper plates. I would hate it for people to monitor my credit card purchases to see if I had been to a paper plate shop.

    I would hate cream cakes even more if, on top of this, they were ham-flavoured cream cakes rather than strawberry-flavoured or failing that apple-flavoured (I’m not too fond of raspberries).

    I believe that no-one should be forced to pay for the right to have Celebrity Come Dancing.

    The idea of government-funded news is ridiculous; of course the BBC is going to be accused of bias. It will never shake off the perception of being a government stooge as long as it is paid for by a tax, just as left-wingers will always cast The Times in a negative light because it is part of Rupert Murdoch’s empire.

    Perhaps the BBC’s argument for its bias is that, because it is paid for by The People, it must therefore skew neutrality so that it reflects its perception of the Will of the People; and that as far as the BBC is concerned, The People have voted for Labour since 1997 because The People are enthusiastic left-wing socialists, and so therefore The People want left-wing socialist news. I disagree with this (…straw man argument that I have conjured out of thin air). Nonetheless I disagree with having to pay a tax for a news and entertainment service and I doubly-disagree with paying for a news and entertainment service that does not like me.

    As for journalists having a duty to neutrality, I used to think that people had jobs because they wanted to strive and do the best they could at the task for which they were most suited. I used to think that everybody should pay a tax to NASA because mankind’s future is in space. But it’s idealistic nonsense all the same.


  19. Rob Read says:

    I think “Andrew Marrs minder” was satire.

    Anyway, he forced us to reveal the rather killer arguments that jailing people for refusing to pay for left-wing twaddle is rather wrong, espicially when it breaks their own charter.


  20. Steve Mac says:

    Off Topic…

    An Ironic turn of events over at BBC’s (Don’t) Have Your Say. The question “Should Google censor its search services in China?” was turning into a forum for discussing the BBC’s censorship of the (D)HYS page. That is until they stealth edited out most of the comments pointing out BBC censorship and got the situation under control.

    It was very interesting to watch the censorship/stealth editing in progress. It really was an eye opener. I was voting to recommend a comment that already had 6 recommendations (it was complaining about a previously posted comment disappearing) and it disappeared before my eyes as I was voting for it! If this is what is happening in the unmoderated questions (as this was labeled unmoderated) what is going on behind the scenes with the moderated ones? Scary.

    There are still a few comments left pointing out the BBC’s hypocrisy, ( and of course they are getting the most recommendations), but most have now been eliminated. if you want to take a look …


  21. archduke says:

    i’ve given up reading “have your say” as its so obviously biased to ridiculous levels – like all the “why cant the iranians have nukes” comments recently (when its bloody obvious that a good 90 per cent of the population find the thought of mullahs with nukes utterly frightening)

    same deal with say, capital punishment – in poll after poll the majority of UK people want it brought back – but you never got a hint of that during the recent disgusting scumbag Tookie lovefest.


  22. rb says:

    I don’t know about that AD. In most cases the ‘most recommended’ topics are what a person with their finger reasonably close to the pulse would expect so it’s a hell of a lot more worthwhile than the old ‘illustrative selection’ approach.

    A quick scan of the current topics suggests that the public thinks the government and lib dems are crap, wnats to be able to smack their kids, hates benefit scroungers, would like the option of abortion, is pretty sympathetic to euthanasia, dislikes Murdoch throwing his weight about and doesn’t fancy helping Bush do his dirty work. Sounds about right to me based on public opinion, whether you agree or not.

    Re: Iran – 8 of the top 10 posts were dead set against the Iranians being allowed to play games with 1 making the sovreign nation point and one the look look Isreal’s got them point. Again pretty representative.


  23. Anonymous says:

    Steve Mac is right.

    Check out this thread (listing most recommended) and check back regularly.


    Make sure you screen grab as well.


  24. Anonymous says:

    This (D)HYS is priceless!


  25. Lee Moore says:

    I’m afraid I agree with archduke. I thought the revised HYS structure was a good plan, but in the end they just couldn’t let go. As archduke says, 90% of the questions are out of Guardian central casting, 90% of the discussions are fully moderated (as against their announced policy of only fully monitoring controversial topics) and it’s obvious that the comments are subject to censorship on political grounds. I’ve posted something like twenty comments (all perfectly legal, decent etc) since they introduced the new system and only about a third of them get through the censors. So why bother ? The fact that plenty of mildly right wing comments do get through simply indicates that the censors aren’t very efficient or consistent.


  26. Henry, UK says:

    Oh good God. As someone who has had the comforting, know it all, BBC pumping out subtle anti american propaganda for my entire life can I just say that the Iraq war (not the fighting war, the one before that, fought between the Today show and Downing Street Press conferences) sured up my views on the subject. The United States is not persuing a cynical foreign policy, or one that treats human rights on a sliding scale. This is the most principled White House since the Regan administration. If I lived in China, Saudi Arabia, Iran or North Korea I would be praying for more of the same. It is easier to criticise and pick over the actions of an open society which has a conscience it can show to the world. I for one would like to live in a country where we did not have to pay a tax and have a government license to own a television and have a group of smug, centre left public servants hauling someone like Webb over the coals for telling the truth. 🙂


  27. Shearer says:

    But was their a groundswell of support for Webb from the BBC Radio’s listeners?


  28. Ritter says:

    OT – interesting debate…..I think the MSM journos are scared…..

    ‘Citizen journalism’ moving mainstream

    “Others – and this includes many of the bloggers – want to change the world.

    Many people think the world of journalism is changing fast enough as it is.”

    Aaaaaw, poor BBC journos. nasty bloggers rocking the BBC boat. Being exposed to the ‘real world’ are we? Didums.

    The NUJ has classed us all as ‘Witness Contributors’ anyway – make sure you abide by the new ‘code’.

    “The NUJ is today launching a code of practice to address the important issues raised by the phenomenon of ‘citizen journalism’ • it will be known as the Witness Contributors’ Code of Practice.

    Citizen journalism •
    NUJ launches Code


    From the debate:

    “All of this is going to happen regardless of whether anyone round this table thinks it is a good idea or not. All of those photos will go onto weblog or flickr. This is happening, there is no resistance to it.

    If we try to block it or resist it or say it is not right, it will feel like we are operating on the hard shoulder of the motorway.

    If you are media organisation and think you can stand above it you will eventually be ignored by it. Anyone under 25 hearing this conversation would think it was quite bizarre.”

    and that’s from a Guardian journo!

    The debate on citizen journalism


  29. Dr. Whingeing Breid says:

    Strange is it not that in Btitain 2% maximum of the population is Muslim, an increase from 0.2% when Labour came into power in 1997, yet all we ever hear on the BBC is Muslim, Muslim Muslim! There are other religions, races, creeds, topics, interests. Oh yes, there is of course the over 90% British population from which over 70% defined themsleves as Christians in the 2001 Labour Government census, and I think a few of them are TV Licence payers as well.


  30. Susan says:

    My God those (D)HYS postings complaining about the Beeb’s heavy-handed censorship are hilarious! MinTruth has made a serious miscalculation here in expecting that no one would notice.


  31. disillusioned_german says:

    If only their propaganda was funny, Susan. Back in the “olden” days I watched the 10 o’clock news. Nowadays I’m much more comfortable watching The Big Story with John Gibson. The BBC in its current form needs to go. I’d prefer a “create your own news” section on their website over their day-to-day output.


  32. Rick says:

    Dr. Whingeing Breid

    you really must remember that England has an Erastian Church and a State Broadcaster – the former funded by members; the second funded by taxpayers.

    The Home Office invites both for a chat along these lines.

    The country is fractured, fragmented, disillusioned, volatile, and there are no common themes or beliefs holding the country together.

    Can you develop some themes ? So the C of E goes out to show the cheery face of the district commissioner in the “Muslim villages within English cities” to the weird situation that Danish twinned parishes are given guided tours of Bradford mosques when their Protestants visit their English counterparts.

    On the other the BBC has decided it has the real pulpit and will preach a heady sermon of Diversity, Unity, Homophiliac, Multiculturalism but has the difficulty that its “right-on” values drive Muslims to ZeeTV and other places to escape the ‘anything goes’ culture.

    Both these institutions have the same minority value set derived from advertising and 1960s University life and is wholly alien to the mainstream population. It is about as relevant as Leonid Brezhnev standing atop Lenin’s tomb talking about the destiny of the working class.

    The BBC is like the C of E – it has been hi-jacked by a liberal fringe who seek to impose their inconsistent beliefs on the majority by dogmatism worthy of the 16th Century Catholic Church. In a different era the BBC would be happily filming Andrei Vyshinsky conducting show trials in 1930s USSR.

    The organisation is degenerate just like the C of E and government itself


  33. Rob Read says:

    BBC (and to be honest Myself suprised at these numbers)…


    “Britons unconvinced on evolution

    Over 55s were more likely to opt for teaching evolution in science lessons
    More than half the British population does not accept the theory of evolution, according to a survey.”


  34. Doctor Whingeing Breid says:


    Then it is up to us in the silent majority to send a clear message to all the decision makers in Labour Government and at the BBC. I know who I will be voting for in the local elections come May 4th and I will be encouraging as many others to do likewise as possible – you might have guessed it will not be Labour.


  35. Cockney says:


    Jesus Christ, the education system is truly dead. I think I might join you in leaving the country.


  36. Rob Read says:


    Where are you thinking of going to? I’ve had to abandon “project exit” for this year as my company has agreed to franchise Oz to another mate.

    Perhaps Canada, now they’ve binned the corrupt party?


  37. Doctor Whingeing Breid says:

    That’s it ! Let the BBC run our schools. Why has no one thought of this before. Then we can quite happily close down the BBC transmitters and sleep happily in our beds knowing just how dumb future generations will be under the influence of BBC employees who will ensure an unbiased and open educational development for all. They may need one or two training courses for themselves first though.


  38. archduke says:

    good stuff there Ritter (http://www.haloscan.com/comments/patrickcrozier/113815467112004191/#199648)

    with this current iranian situation, i’m getting most of information from the web and lots of various blogs deep linking to middle eastern news sites etc. in a way , i’m getting a clearer overall view of the geopolitical situation than if i watched the bbc tv news everyday.

    a similar thing happened in the run up to the iraq war – anyone with half a brain knew about 6 months before the war that the WMD thing was a pack of lies. even though i was all for toppling Saddam, and pro war – i could see that the mainstream media were months behind what was going on in the blogs.

    the msm have a serious problem, and the bias at the beeb is making it even worse.


  39. Henry, UK says:

    The BBC have now removed the Google HYS feature from their HYS front page. If you didn’t know it was there, you wouldn’t be able to find it. If anyone has the ear of someoen at sky…


  40. D Burbage says:

    I think this is the beginning of the end for (D)HYS as we know it. Too much freedom of speech.


  41. ATM says:

    What do you mean the WMD thing was a bunch of lies? Anyone behaving Saddam’s behavior during the 90s would be rightly expect he was hiding elements of his pre-Gulf War WMD programs from inspectors.


  42. Carl says:

    “What do you mean the WMD thing was a bunch of lies?”

    It was a bunch of lies…….whats so hard to understand? Bush said from the beginging he wanted “Regime Change”…..but Tony Blair does not have the strentgh of leadership to say the same thing, so he had to coe up with the 45 Mins To Armagedon headline to sell the war to his own party….

    Blair lied to all of us becasue he did’nt think we would accept the truth…….

    Oh…and they never found the “WMD” either………..


  43. Roxana Cooper says:

    Carl is was Saddam who was lying. He *wanted* the world to believe he had WMDs and it did. Of course this might seem counter-intuitive given his ambition to have the sanctions lifted but it really wasn’t. He knew very well that the likes of France and Germany would be even more likely to support him if they thought he was dangerous according to their appease, appease and more appease philosophy.

    As it happens Saddam’s strategy rebounded upon him – a certain karmic justice there.


  44. Bryan says:

    Yes, and then he was pulled, unresisting, from his underground bolthole like the coward that he is.


  45. Carl says:

    Please don’t get me wrong…..

    I’m happy that this warped and murderous man is in chains. I was happy with Bush’s reason of “Regime Change”…good enough for me……

    It’s just this whole mess turned into a mess when Blair started bleating on about WMD…….and then they lost the propaganda war…

    Anyone with a Brain knows Saddam had WMD, he used them on his own people and in the Iran/Iraq war…….

    Blair and Bush should have gone for the TRUTH, they want to bring change to the Muslim World, and also want to have a Base in the region from which to keep things in check………so two good starting points are Iraq and Afghanistan….

    It’s the lies that turned this into a mess….and now the BBCs lies make it all 1000x worse……

    Just a bloody mess….


  46. Roxana says:

    I agree it’s the lies that turned the media war into a ‘bloody mess’ but it’s the Liberals telling the lies. President Bush may have been the victim of false intelligence but WMDs were only one of several reasons for invading Iraq, chief of which was Saddam’s non-compliance and terrorist cuddling. Since these grounds were legitimate of course the press prefers to trumpet the lack of stockpiled WMDs. The continuing R&D program isn’t bad enough for them.