on the “United against Incitement and Islamophobia” rally planned for Trafalgar Square today.
“The rally … has been organised by the Muslim Council of Britain, the Muslim Association of Britain and a number of Christian organisations.”
Well, yes. Two minor inaccuracies and a curious omission. According to main organisers the Muslim Association of Britain and the Islamic Forum of Europe, the MCB are ‘supporters’, not organisers.
Secondly the ‘number of Christian organisations’ appears to be one – Pax Christi, a ‘peace group’ wholly focused on Palestine and the Middle East.
(UPDATE – I’m sure their presence is nothing to do with the fact that a trustee of their educational arm, Norman Kember, is currently an enforced guest of the Swords of Truth Brigade in Iraq. Hat-tip to Rick in the comments).
The curious omission? The appearance of the Socialist Workers Party front the Stop the War Coalition, or the state-funded Operation Black Vote is not unexpected. But surely the fact that the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament considers the suppression of cartoons of Mohammmed a part of its campaigning work is newsworthy? I’d have asked them for an interview.
UPDATE – just a thought. Has the BBC website not realised yet that the cartoons were published in Egypt last October? I can’t see the story anywhere.
Laban
Yes, there is a timeline on the BBC website, which one of the commentators has linked to on the previous post, in which the publication of the cartoons, and the subsequent formal protest by muslim diplomats to the Danish Government is noted.
Here’s the link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4688602.stm
BBC R5 is beginning to cover the moslem demo today (about time)The ‘Moslem Action Committee’ has organised a demonstration of 100,000 Moslems in London, 11th February, to, as they put it, ‘channel’ growing anger in the Moslem communities.
What has been given only a passing mention are these words from Faiz Siddiqi, the convener for ‘ Moslem Action Committee’, who said
” It is a way of showing the depth of anger that Moslem communities feel about being continually insulted by the publication of these images”
This demands a few questions.
Why London? Surely Mr. Siddiqi, you cannot feel anger towards the newspapers and government here? After all, the images have not been published in this country.
Which offers three possibilities.
You are downloading and distributing the images for your members to see.
Or
You and your members don’t know what you’re talking about.
Or
This is a cynical, organised attempt to intimidate the authorities and the Public for reasons other than so-called ‘insulting images’.
I think we ought to consider these.
You cannot be downloading and distributing images, just as I am sure that Danish Moslems would never, ever have added three more crude images to the original twelve cartoons for the purposes of inciting the ‘ummah’. This would make you all guilty of insulting the prophet! Perish the thought.
And as the ‘Moslem Action Committee’ is made up of many groups, I would have thought it likely that somebody, somewhere within the collective would have even an elementary grasp of events.
But this only leaves a deliberate attempt at intimidation. Hmm.
Mr Siddiqi also said that only banners and placards issued by the committee would be allowed.
Oh well, it pretty much looks like number three then!
Come on Beeb, you’re willing to analyse US politics to death. How about turning the spotlight onto this lot!
To the wise-ones in Islington and their clones and drones, this capitalist imperialist racist Christian bigoted society is the true enemy of the people, the source of all that is awful everywhere, always.
So today’s demo is fodder for those whose Leninist-Trot-Gramsican “duty” is to promote social and political divisiveness. For the aging losers with CND/Black Dwarf and Militant Tendency backgrounds dating from the Sixties, the demo is just grist to the same old clapped-out mill.
Alienated whack jobs all, and — entirely predictable — the natural habitat of the BBC.
Will the BBC will be asking Red Ken for comment and context? About a snowball’s chance…though a Tariq Ali/Vanessa Redgrave sighting is a distinct possibility.
The BBC 100k “estimate” is already down to 10k, and the pageant hasn’t even begun yet. So expect “vagueness” there.
Today’s coverage — or lack thereof — may be best seen as part of Greg Dyke’s lingering legacy, guilt-ridden bastard that he is.
Fran I guess the problem is that the significance of the October publication in Egypt has been overlooked in the media reaction and analysis (not least from the Beeb). Retro-actively updating something as neutral as a timeline does nothing to re-balance the news reaction to the cartoons; it merely covers up the fact that that reaction was born in in part from western media (and BBC) ignorance.
The reason the bbc won’t run with the story of the Egyptian publication of the cartoons or the Mecca tactical conference, that shows the global Islamic extremist protests to be Iranian inspired, is that they don’t want to upset today’s M&M appearance. Blair needs the M&Ms for his terror laws. In a speech to the party’s spring conference in Blackpool yesterday and widely repeated on BBC news, he claimed:
“Yes, freedom of speech is an ancient liberty. But it should be exercised with responsibility because if it is not another ancient liberty – the right to life – is put at risk….When moderate people do not take action in the face of extremism then less moderate people with their own version of extremism take control of the agenda”.
In short, he has just blessed today’s demo, and the British public should look at the M&Ms (Moderate Muslims) as reclaiming the agenda from the extremists. Thus, the real infringement to civil liberty took place at the extremist demos, and everyone should vote for him on Monday, so he can put a stop to this and arrest them.. It seems to me that the bbc is absolutely complicit in this, and will not bring this whole demo into question as wrong and misguided, as well as misinformed.
OT
Political correctness gone mad at the BBC – they are censoring some episodes of the Goon Show and Round the Horne. Without censoring, the poor dears would not feel able to broadcast them on Radio 7 – which has a miniscule audience anyway.
And we are forced to pay the salaries for these censors and all the committee meetings needed to reach these momentous editorial decisions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/11/neddie11.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/02/11/ixhome.html
Sounding rather like Tony Blair, the grand ayatollah Sistani has also attacked the extremists, and appealed for Moderation. Thoe who can express “Anger” in a civilized way.
http://www.nationalreview.com/week/editors200602101140.asp
Ayatollah Sistani has called the publication of the cartoons a “horrific action,” not surprisingly. But he also has condemned the “misguided and oppressive” Muslims who “have exploited this . . . to spread poison and revive old hatreds with new methods.” They, he continued, project “a distorted and dark image of the faith of justice, love, and brotherhood.” In a better world, Sistani would have a Nobel Peace Prize
Andy McCarthy exposes the real thoughts of this “Moderate Muslim”
SISTANI FOR NOBEL?
http://corner.nationalreview.com/06_02_05_corner-archive.asp#089803
Radio 7!
What’s That?
(come to think of it, what’s Radio 6?)
Life’s getting too complicated.
I used to be able to count the number of Beeb radio stations on the fingers of one hand.
Radio 1, Radio 2, Radio 3, Radio 3 1/2 and Radio 5.
islamophobia? the MCB are calling it “United against XENOPHOBIA”
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-535
I just wish there was a freedom of speech rally that I could attend.
“I just wish there was a freedom of speech rally that I could attend.”
you cant. PC Plod would arrest you.
The rally is a demonstration in favour of religious censorship. Let that point not be lost.
While this organisers and ‘helpers’ (i.e. the Socialist Worker Party) are claiming that this is also demonstration against ‘extremist’ Islamists, the aim of both rallies is the same.
I hope the mainstream media bears this in mind when it covers today’s events.
I hope the demonstrators have an enjoyable day.
In light of the difficulties the BBC ‘Have your say’ page had last week. I wonder if the same problem will transpire this weekend. At this moment in time the letter page is 100% against the marches. I wait with baited breath;
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=1077&&edition=1&ttl=20060211102421
From Laban’s treasure trove of fog.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4697086.stm
Has the BBC answered any of Livingstone’s criticisms?
‘Protests held in London last week sparked outrage when demonstrators carried placards with messages which some said amounted to “incitement to murder”.’
Right. That’s fairly straightforward
‘Mr Livingstone said: “Too many media outlets have given excessive weight to the fringes of this argument including giving a platform to racists.” ‘
But what does he mean?
The ‘Fringes’ of this argument?
A ‘Platform’ to ‘Racists’?
Who is he talking about?
‘In response to Mr Livingstone’s criticism, a spokesman for BBC News said: “BBC News has reflected across its output a wide range of the views amongst the Muslim community on the cartoons satirisng Muhammad.
(There’s no closing quote.
Were these two sentences meant to appear in the same paragraph?)
“On television, radio and online, BBC News has given its audiences the opportunity to hear and voice their own opinions.” ‘
Does sentence 1 mean the fringes of the argument exists solely in the Muslim community?
Does sentence 2 mean the BBC audience are bystanders in all this?
What exactly are the fringes of the argument. If we take cutting peoples heads of is one of the fringe arguments, what is the other?
Protesting peacefully?
Or perhaps for Mr. Livingstone it’s exercising free speech.
And who are the racists?
The BBC doesn’t seem to mention them at all!
Sorry guys this isn’t an analysis or explanation of anything.
Or do I need my ‘Cryptic Politics Decoder Ring’ on to work out this item?
pounce -> staggering. i wonder how long that will stay up or will the “technical difficulties” gremlins come back.
awful lot of common sense in those comments though.
People tend not to go on pro-freedom-of-speech demonstrations when freedom of speech is already a right.
It would be bizarre if such a march were organised and a half-a-million people attended, all carrying banners of the cartoons. The Met would certainly have plenty of scope to improve its arrest figures.
“And who are the racists?”
anyone who wants to draw a picture of Mohammed and get it published.
Livingstone is singing from the same hymn sheet as the MCB.
I’ve still yet to figure out who are the MCBs “xenophobes”.
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-535
So in the world according to the MCB, by supporting the cartoons, Ayaan Hirsi Ali , a Somali immigrant in the Dutch parliament is herself a “xenophobe”
all makes perfect sense – not.
Paul – in the words of fawlty towers ‘there’s enough material here for a whole conference’.
“which some said amounted to “incitement to murder”.'”
I think if, say, a “right-wing” rally had carried such placards the BBC would be less chary of taking a view on ‘incitement’. Those words would be replaced by ‘which openly called for the murder of opponents’.
On Ken, I think he would rather the BBC had downplayed the protests – which on Friday they did. There’s no doubt that he would consider that the coverage would help far-right parties like the BNP – which is probably a correct analysis. I imagine the racists would be, for example, those who took a robust, ‘if they don’t like it go somewhere else’ view of the protests, but I haven’t read the BBC ‘have your say’ pages which I gather were strongly (and rightly) against the placards and demonstrators. Ken would probably prefer them to be censored.
The BBC view on Mr Livingstones remarks is IMHO ‘let’s not go there’.
(BTW it is worth repeating that last Friday’s demo WAS only a few hundred people out of 1.5m.)
Ken Livingstone said: “Unlike some of the BBC’s coverage, it will allow the views of the mainstream Muslim community to be properly heard.”
What is he on? Has he ever looked at the BBC website? The BBC news website is dedicated to ‘allowing the views’ of the mainstream Muslim community to be heard.
Anyway, Livingstone’s view of what is or is not a ‘moderate’ or ‘mainstream’ Muslim is open to question – he seeks and enjoys the company of people like al-Qaradawi, for example, supporters of suicide bombing of civilians (though not, of course, in London. Not yet).
BTW, I hate to be a wet blanket, but as Natalie said : “this site tolerates debate about religion, including the religion of Islam. Tolerates, but does not encourage. We would prefer you discussed, critically or favourably, the British Broadcasting Corporation, since that it what this site is about.”
for example, while the debate on whether Ayatollah Sistani is a good or bad egg may be fascinating, it’s not really relevant unless the BBC has done a 1-hr ‘Sistani – A Good/Bad Egg’ Panorama special.
“Your co-operation would be appreciated”
laban – i’d like to hear the reasons for that article’s equivocation. For me, “Kill all who oppose Islam” is incitement to murder. It takes a special “mind-set” to not see that; the mind-set of someone who works at the BBC, in fact.
“for example, while the debate on whether Ayatollah Sistani is a good or bad egg may be fascinating, it’s not really relevant unless the BBC has done a 1-hr ‘Sistani – A Good/Bad Egg’ Panorama special.”
in light of the whole free speech versus muslim censorship and the BBCs role in this, it is difficult NOT to drag in Al Sistani, for he is portrayed, on the BBC itself, as “moderate”, even though he thinks that 80 per cent of humanity are unclean “kafirs”.
but your point is noted. and valid.
Back to tearing apart biased BBC reports for me.
I think the content of Melanie Phillips’ article, The Cartoon Jihad is spot on.
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/archives/001583.html
There are bigger games being played here with the gormless, the gullible and the plain old ‘useful idiots’ all playing their part.
Well, at least if I need a plumber today, I know where I can find one!!
From Our Own Correspondent – Hungary uprising
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4651808.stm
“but failed, at the cost of more than 3,000 dead in the streets of Budapest”
its actually estimated to be 25,000 to 50,000 rebels killed – with the Soviets losing 7000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Hungarian_Revolution
maybe wikipedia is wrong?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4700482.stm
“thousands to join pro-islam rally”
i really dont like the headline or the reference to “mainstream muslims”.
lets be honest – this is a bunch of extremists who want to supress freedom of speech throughout Europe.
The danger with this softly-softly reporting is that it plays right into the hands of the likes of the BNP – in that , portraying these extremists as “moderate” , infers to the casual BBC viewer that ALL muslims want to impose their views on the rest of society.
This is a highly dangerous game that the bbc is playing, for it will only increase tensions in society, not lessen them.
such is the illogical consequences BBC political correctness.
In the BBCs view , they are trying to lessen tension – whereas they end up causing doing the complete opposite.
We want the facts BBC. Just the facts.
Melanie Philips, as per usual, hits the nail on the head:
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/archives/001583.html
Quote:
These ‘moderates’ are the ‘moderate’ Muslim Council of Britain, who moderately boycott Holocaust Day, moderately back the Jew-hating, gay-hating, human-bombs-in-Israel-and-Iraq-supporting Qaradawi and moderately want to criminalise anyone who even talks about Islamic terrorism
lets put the bbc portrayal of the demonstrators today in context , with just one example.
this is a Saudi girl, blogging from Riyadh. the heart of a Islamic theocracy. Now you would think she’d be calling for the heads of the cartoonists.
well, no. far from it.
http://farahssowaleef.blogspot.com/2006/01/i-believe-i-believe-i-believe.html
“I don’t believe it is my right to bully a whole nation, and its government and its people”
Now, she’s right in the heart of it – Islamic Saudi education and all that- and she’s loves Mohammed, yada yada yada.
Think about that.
So, bearing that in mind, how are the MCB “moderate”? As I said, its a highly dangerous game that the BBC is doing – and it will end up ultimately tarring ALL muslims with a “they all support the MCB” brush.
Do you think Pax Christi asked this Trustee what he thought of joining the rally ?
Norman Kember is currently somewhere in Iraq
The BBC is playing its usual trick with numbers, “more than 3,000 dead” is true but down plays the full horror of the Communist invasion by a factor of ten. If the beeb supports a particular cause, for example ‘an eco protest’ it will say ‘over 5,000 protested’ when the actual number was 5,001.
It will be interesting to see how this little gathering today pans out, but more interestingly the differing coverage given by MSN and the blogs.
USS Neverdock reports that there are terror links to planned Muslim march.
some praise – “any questions”
Dimblebey brings up the “Jerry Springer Opera” argument, when one panellist goes down the “freedom of speech has limits” argument.
He also brings up the “fear” argument to another panellist – as in we’re not fearful of Christian fundementalists, be we’re fearful of the Islamists, in terms of “offending”.
Looks like somebody has been briefing him ok this week.
“USS Neverdock reports that there are terror links to planned Muslim march.”
which is why the BBC reporting them as “mainstream” is highly irresponsible, and dangerous.
interesting!
“any answers” has an egyptian christian on. describing the degrading of the christians/jews in egypt. “infidels”, christians/jews are “filthy”. its in the mosques, papers, education system.
Just seen on BBC News 24 , journalist Philippa Thomas, at Trafalgar square (13.35), interviewing Muslim in burka holding a union jack,…..
“I’m proud to be a (sic) British”.
What an incredible noticeable difference from last Friday, one could almost say a seismic shift in sentiment, quite astonishing. However, I don’t remember bbc journalists interviewing participants in Friday’s demonstration, true they were invited into bbc studios later, but, one can’t help thinking that different standards have been applied. Is it because the bbc were too afraid to do such interviews with the former Muslims out in the streets, or had, perhaps, the police advised them not to? Perhaps somebody in the bbc might tell us?
Radio 4 BBC news (14:00) is defining this protest in London that it is against “The European publication” of the cartoons. Still no recognition that Egypt published them in Nov. 2005. I guess the possibility of Ms Philippa Thomas asking a question such as “You are protesting against the publication of these cartoons in European newspapers, but did you know that an Egyptian newspaper published these same cartoons last year? Why are you protesting here in London, in a non-Islamic country, that you think Europeans should not do this and yet it is allowed for a newspaper in an Islamic country to do so? Isn’t this somewhat hypocritical?”
hopefully there won`t be any trouble at the “mainstream”muslim rally.but if there is watch the bbc focus in on any counter demonstraters,and possibly tie it in to the bnp.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4700482.stm
still playing the “moderate” line.
what about the X million muslims who couldnt give a damn about all this, and are just getting on with their day to day lives?
lets face it – would anyone on here consider the Christians who protested against Jerry Springer to be “moderate”?
of course not.
Just how many are on this excursion?The BBC, after several days of advertising this event, are still trying to peddle the line of tens of thousands.
I haven’t seen any arial shots of this demonstration so far, usually an indication that only a few hundred turned up.
Anyone got an uptodate assessment?
ON radio 4 just heard on “Any Answers” a listener discuss the cartoon rage, and raise the issue of the 3 fake cartoons, he described one of them on radio so: “the prophet being seduced by a dog, shall we put it politely*” BBC 2:20. (He actually said at first “delightly” and then stammering somewhat corrected himself and said ‘politely’) Is Jonathan Dimbleby, like so many bbc journalists, still unaware of the nature of these fake cartoons?
Is this the actual price of their non publication that such ignorance rules? He is usually quite a Solomon figure on these shows, rapidly correcting his listeners, warning them against false accusations and misrepresentations, and loves to intercept with “allegedly” if the subject wanders into litigious waters, as it is wont. I find it astonishing that when a listener mentions the prophet Mohammed being seduced by a dog on bbc radio, that he did not immediately become censorious and reply along the following lines, “that I think you will find it is not a representation of Mohammed, but actually a Muslim at prayer.” However, he chose not to do so, and moved swiftly on to another listener.
Was this because he has not seen these fake cartoons?
“On television, radio and online, BBC News has given its audiences the opportunity to hear and voice their own opinions.”
———————-
They forgot to add.
Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of posters to HYS voiced the opinion that they were in favour of the Danish newspaper, and disgusted with the victim mentality of the Muslim community.
Hence, we skewed the HYS pages a few times to make it look more balanced, and blamed a technical hitch for problems on our website…giggles.
“Was this because he has not seen these fake cartoons?”
he’s obviously not seen them.
mr dimblebey is usually extremely quick to prevent litigation against the BBC when callers make libellous statements and such like.
HYS: Can UK cartoon rally resolve tensions?
This one seems to be going the wrong way for the Beeb as well if you look at the most recomended.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=1077&edition=1&ttl=20060211144353&#paginator
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4700482.stm
“thousands join pro-islam protest”
its not – its an “anti-cartoon protest”
the bbc ties themselves up in knots, because the first paragraph says so!
–Just seen on BBC News 24 , journalist Philippa Thomas, at Trafalgar square (13.35), interviewing Muslim in burka holding a union jack,…..
“I’m proud to be a (sic) British”. —-
It was probably John Simpson
“”Just seen on BBC News 24 , journalist Philippa Thomas, at Trafalgar square (13.35)…””
just before that, on skynews… i seen Azzam Tamimi (the one who said he would be prepared to be a suicide bomber in israel, if im not mistaken)at trafalgar sq, giving his *moderate* views.
anyone else notice that he always seemed on the verge of breaking out into full-on fascist rant mode, but just managed to come down from the edge at the last second?.
…Q “do you condemn last weeks protests calling for violence & deaths ?”
A. ” they were *unwise* ”
eg … Q ” what about the offensive anti-semite stuff in arab media, day after day after day..?”
A. ..yadda, yadda…(something about zionist conspiricies)
the rest of his interview consisted of veiled threats about the WORLD BURNING if *respect* (= fear/submission) was not shown to muzlims and their prophet.
good that free-speech all-round reveals just who these bastards are
“respect”
so, we dissed his gang so. man. and he no take no dissing from us , man – so he’s gonna diss us right back.
man.
Can someone tell Azzam Tamimi that he’s actually in the UK and not somewhere like south central L.A.
“”Just how many are on this excursion?The BBC, after several days of advertising this event, are still trying to peddle the line of tens of thousands.
I haven’t seen any arial shots of this demonstration so far, usually an indication that only a few hundred turned up.
Anyone got an uptodate assessment?””
i think there was more in trafalgar sq for the Ashes Series win last september
from have your say comments
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=1&threadID=1077&edition=1&ttl=20060211152849&#paginator
“As a Muslim I would urge all my co-religionists to exercise restraint and maintain their dignity and self-respect during these testing times”
I notice that the MCB use similar language:
http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=187
the question being – why would you need to URGE people to be peaceful.
Why would the MCB put out a message saying “dont be provoked”.
If Islam is RoP – then logically, they wouldnt need to make such statements. It wouldnt need to be said.
Therein lies the rub – the people on this march and the people they are addressing ARENT moderate or peaceful.
Merely a bunch of fascists who have decided not to be violent – for today anyway.
slightly OT , but kind of related to the whole Paul Reynolds -BBC -blogosphere meme.
It looks as if the U.S. Military do really “get it” when it comes blogs – right up to Centcom
Centcom has got in touch with “gates of vienna”:
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/02/centcom-checks-in-at-gates.html
they have an officer “charged with communicating with bloggers”
“””the question being – why would you need to URGE people to be peaceful.
Why would the MCB put out a message saying “dont be provoked”.
If Islam is RoP – then logically, they wouldnt need to make such statements. It wouldnt need to be said.
Therein lies the rub – the people on this march and the people they are addressing ARENT moderate or peaceful.”””
very good points archduke
Yes, as someone said above, this rally is all about imposing censorship on other people’s thoughts.
The Beeb, on its site, quotes this with approval: “Among them was Hanifa Brka, a 29-year-old student from Birmingham, who said: “This is the heart of our faith – we believe it is wrong to talk badly about the prophet.” (A 29-yr old student? I’d be interested to know what she is studying.) The BBC seems to like this quote, yet it is stupid. “We believe it is wrong to talk badly about the prophet.” Fine. Don’t talk badly about your prophet.
For anyone outside your religion, your prophet has no resonance and therefore we are not similarly constrained. When are these people going to get this point through their heads and why is the BBC encouraging such muddled thinking?