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Open thread – for comments of general Biased BBC interest:
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@ dumbcisco
That’s just a typical case of BBC “bias”.
At times it can be somewhat “crude” or “clumsy”.
@archduke.
The “clumsy” IDF attack on the “warehouse” probably damaged alot of “home-made” goods.Pity the destruction of war. At least my 10s/6d are safe.
I’ve been visiting this site for a couple of years. I comment now and then but usually someone says “it” quite well.
Is it me or has the B-BBC become very particular when it comes to commentors? Oh, I agree that all should abide by the rules and there’s no need for “rough” language. I enjoy the intelligent discussions, information and an occasional debate without the lunacy.
Is the B-BBC adopting the BBC habit describing anyone who’s views are right of center as “radical” or extreme.
Maybe they are trying to maintain some sort of decorum knowing that actual BBC “journalists” are reading the comments.
It’s probably just my paranoia.
Keep up the good work!
A Fan
BBC discover bias! Must be their Chinese equivalent.
Today’s Today Question:
When interviewing Palestinian and Israeli spokespersons this morning, which one did St James of Smug interrupt with a tetchy voice?
Answers on a postcard please to St James of Smug, c/o The Electronic Intifada.
Robert Stewart. He’s white and a racist, and there is a mugshot that fits the Beeboid narrative perfectly.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5126614.stm
That’s all the BBC need to go overboard on a murder. Even though it happened 6 years ago. Expect this one to run and run.
Meanwhile, here’s another racist murder, that happened a couple of days ago. Unfortunately it doesn’t fit the BBC narrative, so is hidden away. For proper reporting, see
here:-
http://www.jpost.com/
Re the Robert Stewart enquiry: this report is going to be published later today or tomorrow. Forget for a moment about BBC bias, just consider the basic craft of journalism: if “Today” is a “news” programme or even a “news magazine” why doesn’t the BBC wait until the report is published and then do an analysis/agit-prop piece? Speculating on “Today” or a BBC website about what might be in the report and getting predictable views from the usual suspects is not “news” it’s speculation. Even so, as Eamonn has pointed out, the BBC gets up to speed on its chosen take on the report through the page below
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5126614.stm
Which one is that Eamonn – I’m getting the JP frontpage and it’s not clear?
I notice that Robert Stewart’s ethnicity wasn’t mentioned, although we were told that Zahid Mubarek was Asian. 58% of the inmates out of 900 at the time in Feltham Young Offenders’ Institution were bme. By BBC standards that would mean Robert Stewart was a member of an ethnic minority.
Strange how this fact is obscured, especially when it revolves around “sharing a cell”.
Yes, Eamonn, they will run with this, but I havent heard anything about the verdict of the honour killing in Denmark on the BBC
Denmark – Nine Muslims convicted in “honor killing”
http://ussneverdock.blogspot.com/2006/06/denmark-nine-muslims-convicted-in.html
I noticed that all the commentators interviewed on the Today programme spoke of “Zahid” whereas first name terms about “Robert” were not heard.
Is the mini Christian cross tattooed on his forehead related in any way to David Beckham’s cross on his back? I would have thought this is a religious symbol but the BBC appear to interpret this cross as a racist symbol. Where do they get this information from? Did “Robert” get the opportunity of Christian counselling at Feltham? If not, why not? What about the Community elders? Why were they not allowed in at Feltham.
“When interviewing Palestinian and Israeli spokespersons this morning, which one did St James of Smug interrupt with a tetchy voice?”
Eamonn: For sure St Naughtie got very haughty when the Israeli guy said the Palestinian was ‘supposedly’ an ambassador for Abbas. Absurd as he was making the entirely valid point that you’d never have guessed it as he sounded like a Hamas spokesperson. But look on the bright side. They opened with Israel’s point of view and closed with it, giving a rare right of reply opportunity. The news bulletin at 8 also gave coverage to both points of view. I actually think this is (albeit limited) progress, something to cheer up all the surveillance beeboids on this site.
Cockney
This one:-
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885879556&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Are you listening Andrew Marx? Part II
http://www.epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=257909
Scroll down to “The wickedness of the Beeb ”
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/
Oscar
I want to believe you, but did you hear Katya “context, what’s that?” Adler’s report from Gaza on Today this morning? Lots of facts to make us feel sorry for the Palestinians, no facts to lend any sympathy to the Israeli point of view.
If you elect a terrorist Government into power, that preaches genocide and antisemitism, somewhere along the line there will be consequences. This logic seems to have escaped the Palestinians.
Oscar/Eamonn,
I agree with Oscar here. Apart from the interruption on a point of accuracy, it was a fair representation of the point of view of both sides. Now that’s extraordinary for the BBC and certainly deserving of credit – even though they are just doing what they should be doing in the first place.
If I can bear it, I’ll see what Katya has to say for herself on ‘Today’.
So much space for Gaza stories, but none for this family tragedy
http://ussneverdock.blogspot.com/
GAZA CITY (AFP) – Two Palestinians were killed and another seven, including a baby, wounded when a grenade accidentally exploded in the southern Gaza Strip.
Family members were playing with a grenade in the town of Khan Yunis when it exploded, killing 23-year-old Qassem Massud and his one-year-old niece, medical and security sources said Wednesday.
All the casualties were members of the same family.
This is probably what happened in the Gaza beach explosion last week.
Looks like the IDF are actually in process of toppling the Hamas PA government (thank god – about time too):
“The heads of Hamas, including many ministers and most Hamas parliament members have been taken into custody… As a result, the leadership has gone underground… At the same time, the IDF is attacking Hamas infrastructures in Gaza, where dozens more are expected to be arrested.”
from:
http://www.vitalperspective.com/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5125256.stm
“Seized Israeli settler found dead”
oh right – he just , i dunno, died of a heart attack or something?
you have to scroll down a bit to find the real reason:
“Israeli military sources said he was killed by a single bullet to the head and then buried, according to the AFP news agency.”
So, why doesnt the headline reflect that?
“Kidnapped Israeli executed” would be more accurate.
jpost.com has a more accurate headline
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885879556&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Here’s one for you – the BBC’s list of who’s appearing on Question Time tonight:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/5124220.stm
I quote from the description of Mike O’Brien MP: “His boss, Lord Goldsmith, has said that David Cameron’s recent proposals for abolishing the Human Rights Act and replacing it with a Bill of Rights are “muddled, misconceived and dangerous”. ”
What’s that got to do with anything? Just a random bit of Tory-bashing? Why quote what his boss said?
For consistency, under Julie Kirkbride they might want to put, “Her party leader, David Cameron, has sustained an opinion poll lead over Labour, and yesterday embarrassed the PM by likening him to The Office’s David Brent”. But they didn’t. No surprises there.
Also, the Beeboids north of the border can’t do their homework either – the Lib Dem on the panel is Nicol Stephen MSP, and not Stephens!!! Utterly useless.
Comments on Melanie Phillips remarkably neutral – surely to Beeb eyes she’s beyond the pale. Oh well, lets see what they make of her tonight…
Archduke
“So, why doesnt the headline reflect that?”
How can an oppressor be a victim? BBC cannot compute.
This is probably what happened in the Gaza beach explosion last week.
That was my exact thought when that self-proclaimed ‘munitions expert’ and con artist, Mark Galasco of HRW was proving his idiocy by claiming that the explosion couldn’t have been a landmine but must have been an incoming Israeli shell because the wounds were to the head and upper torso of the victims.
If he had more than two brain cells to rub together to make a spark he would have made the connection that people lie down on the beach – making his statement meaningless. And, of course, they also dig holes on the beach and could have uncovered an unexploded device, of whatever nature.
The BBC never repeated that statement of his. Once was evidently enough. And, of course, BBC ‘journalists’ felt no responsibility to challenge Garlasco’s evidence.
Looking on the bright side, may all Palestinian propagandists be as dumb as him. Be good for Israel.
“How can an oppressor be a victim? BBC cannot compute.”
terrible isnt it – even when its as blatant as kidnapping an innocent teenager and shooting him in the head just because he was a Jew.
note the use of the loaded word “settler” by the BBC – we’ll there’s no settlements in Gaza anymore !
All pro-Palestinian propagandists, rather.
we’ll there’s no settlements in Gaza anymore !
And hopefully we can now settle the Gaza question.
if they dont find that soldier alive, i suspect that all hell will break loose.
My guess is that Olmert will just open up a folder left by Ariel Sharon on how to finally solve the Gaza question.
archduke
Saying the young man was “executed” would also be wrong. Execution is something a state does, after a trial, after proper legal process.
He was MURDERED. There is no other word that really fits.
Cox & Forkum get it bang on, as per usual:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000877.html
we’ll there’s no settlements in Gaza anymore !
Actually the boy was abducted in the West Bank (aka Judea & Samaria) where he lived and was murdered, that’s the other side of Israel proper to Gaza.
I hope it convinces Olmert that removing “settlements” from there is not a good idea, we’ve seen what a year of self-government in Gaza has acheived by way of “peace dividend”.
ah – i stand corrected so BioD.
his body was found near Ramallah , which indeed, is on the west bank
“we’ve seen what a year of self-government in Gaza has acheived by way of peace dividend”
if this situation escalates, is it conceivable that Israel might actually annex Gaza and expel all the Palestinians living there? somehow , i dont think they would do that – ethnic cleansing is something , knowing Jewish history, that the Israelis would be very uncomfortable with.
but , in order to stop the terrorism, what options , besides military occupation, does Olmert have?
dumbcisco:”Execution is something a state does, after a trial, after proper legal process.
He was MURDERED. There is no other word that really fits.”
i would disagree – the Israelis are pinning the terrorism on the P.A. authority. The P.A. have aided and abetted and funded the terrorists. So in effect, the P.A. executed the teenager.
i think this is the correct word to use – at least Jpost.com thinks so.
A “murder” implies no involvement by the P.A. – a kind of random , independent act.
The term “execute” is more reflective of the callous nature of the act as well.
Well, that clears it up. Jeremy Whine’s intro has just described how Israel has ‘seized’ members of the Pali (ie Hamas) government in response to the ‘capture’ of their soldier.
moonbat alert – Jeremy Vine on bbc 2 now.
yeah – you guessed it – the moonbat is blaming the Israelis.
archduke,
You’re right that jews would rather expel themselves from their historic homeland than commit mass murder. By the way have you noticed that so far there are no reports of civilian casualties despite the apparent forcefulness of “Operation Summer Rain”?
Your guess is as good as mine as to what could be a possible solution.
How about something like what happened on the eve of the ’67 war?
Israel could announce that it is no longer willing to deal with either the PLO (Fatah) or Hamas and that it is reclaiming all of Jerusalem, Gaza and Judea & Samaria – any Arabs who wish to stay in this “Greater Israel” would be welcome but any participating in any form of terrorism or insurgence would be dealt with according to the law of the land and the laws and customs of war.
Any Arab not happy with that arrangement will be free to leave Israel to go to Lebanon, Syria, Egypt or Jordan.
Enough already with this phony “Palestine” – Israel, from the river to the sea!
Of course that won’t happen, but why not?
archduke
Yes, the PA are responsible.
But I still feel that execution implies a legal process beforehand. Which in turn implies that the person being executed has committed a crime.
As in this definition :
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/execute
or this – execution as a punishment :
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/execute
http://www.answers.com/topic/execute
“Israel could announce that it is no longer willing to deal with either the PLO (Fatah) or Hamas and that it is reclaiming all of Jerusalem, Gaza and Judea & Samaria”
i wouldnt be surprised if they announce that over the next few days.
at least that would allow them to secure the Gaza/Egypt border in order to prevent the gun/ammo smuggling going on.
is that the gun/ammo smuggling the BBC is forever telling us about ?
Through the non-existent tunnels that “peace” protesters deny exist ?
Using money the Palestinians don’t have ?
archduke,
In the same way that the recent “prison document” implicitly didn’t recognize Israel, so the Israelis have already also “implicitly” said that they won’t deal with a terrorist organization.
Remember that before the agreement which established the Palestinian Authority (Oslo?) there was no recognized body representing the “Palestinians”.
Allowing them some form of self-rule is another of those opportunities they’ve not missed the opportunity to miss, and its another concession that they have used solely for the purpose of carrying forward their declared aim of destroying Israel instead of using it to prepare the basis of a real Palestinian state with all that it would imply regarding the welfare of its citizens and its relationship with its immediate neighbours.
This has been going on for close to 60 years now and I really feel the time has come to admit that it won’t work. Nothing has changed since the Arabs’ first refusal to accept the declaration of independence of the State of Israel, they’ve had plenty of chances to compromise and refused every one. Israel exists, it will not be destroyed militarily and it won’t simply give up and decide it was a bad idea, so its about time the Arabs, and the BBC accepted it and learned to live with it.
Arms smuggling is a tiny detail, in fact Olmert allowed a recent shipment to go to Abbas for his personal security forces, although it was probably intended to assist him in the squabbles with Hamas. I believe its a mistake also for Israel to take sides in the internecine in-fighting – both sides want to destroy Israel and that in itself should be justification enough to declare an end to the farce and declare Israel’s borders “from the river to the sea” as I suggested above.
While we’re always treated to interviews and reactions from the wailing families of “Palestinian martyrs” after their murderous attacks on civilians, we most certainly will not be hearing this from the family of the slaughtered Israeli youngster via the BBC:
‘The pain is almost too great to bear’
“The pain is great, almost too great to bear,” said Miriam Asheri, mother of slain Itamar resident Eliyahu Asheri in an interview with Israel Radio on Thursday.
“But one thing I feel, despite all this…is that in the wake of disagreements between our brethren, with our different worldviews and different relationships to the land of Israel that creates a lot of conflict, a lot of anger, a lot of argument – many times, I’ve asked G-d that he should first of all grant me love for everyone in my heart, and … that He should show me the special quality of the nation of Israel, and that I should succeed – that we should all succeed in loving each other…truly from the heart.”
Miriam said it became clear to her during the course of these trials and tribulations, how wonderful Israel really is. She expressed gratitude to all the people who called to offer moral support.
“The help there was… I don’t have the words to describe how encouraging [it was]…how everyone was truly so wonderful,” she said.
“And I think this was also Eliyahu’s way. …Whenever there was a fight, he would always say, ‘Stop, everyone should have their place…,’ and his way was always one of peace. And I think this is an impetus – god forbid we should ever have such a terrible impetus – but an impetus for true unity between all factions, despite disagreements – and they do exist – but to see the good in the Jewish nation….”
According to Miriam, “What strengthens you is, first of all, knowing that everything is from God, knowing that to die sanctifying God’s name, as he did – that God chose him to sanctify the name of heaven in public. This is the thing that comforts us. Any other comfort is trivial in my estimation, it doesn’t let my spirit rest.”
Regarding the family of Gilad Shalit, Asheri said it always pains her to hear of the troubles of other Jews, but knowing that she was not alone in her pain made it easier to bear. “It allows me to get out of it for a moment, but it always pains me greatly – a very deep pain for each and every one – the parents, the neighborhood, all of Israel.”
Blimey chaps, greater Israel, expulsion of Palestinians, etc etc
Are there some Jewish religious nutters around here or just ‘conservatives’ getting carried away? It’s starting to resemble some of the more bonkers Islamist sites in reverse.
B-BBC – home of rational debate.
Hey Robbie
You may have a point. However
“greater Israel, expulsion of Palestinians”
makes a change from
“one state solution, expulsion of settlers”
There was an interesting little moment on Radio 4 (Today) this morning when the status of the Britsh ‘businessmen’ who had a part in an Enron-linked scam against NatWest bank was reviewed. Apparently, they are destined to be extradited to the US and the extradition treaty is ‘unfair’. I don’t profess to know enough to comment on that aspect but Shami Chakrabati of lefty group Liberty was on to support the three detainees. Normally, Liberty wouldn’t seek to assist ‘businessmen’ in any shape or form UNLESS said ‘businessmen’ are inconveniencing the Great Satan. Secondly, it is worth noting that a bus driver was recently sacked from his job because of his political beliefs – he is a member of the BNP. Any chance of assistance from ‘Liberty’?
The PC Brigade have’nt realised it yet, but they are the new Nazi Fascists…….
They are evil discrimnators every bit as evil as any Nazi…….and just as blind to their own horror….
They are one sided in their views, yet lie to themselves and say they are “blanaced”….
Expect more war and genocide in Europe…the Socilaist Fascists are going to do it all over again…….something about Jews and Europeans eh??…First it was the Nazis…now the BBC……….Europeans are just racist……
Israeli settler murdered.
Would Oxford University Acedemic and BBC arts commerntator Tom Paulin care to comment?
“In similar fashion, when a Soviet diplomat (contradiction in terms) was kidnapped by islamic nutters in Lebanon, the KGB identfied the ringleader of the kidnappers. The ringleader received through the post the dismembered body parts of his next of kin. The Soviet diplomat was released unharmed.
The moral is there for all to see.”
I remember that event….
It’s time to stop playing with these Murdering Muslims who attack women and children…..and shoot hostages in the head….
They are scum, and the BBC is supporting murder of women and children…….
If I worked for the BBC, I don’t know how I could sleep at night, such lies and manipulation of others…they should feel utterly ashamed…….but then, I geuss Nazis got sleep during WWII……..are the Anti-Jew BBC fascists any diferent??……
RobbieKeane:
Blimey chaps, greater Israel, expulsion of Palestinians, etc etc
Are there some Jewish religious nutters around here or just ‘conservatives’ getting carried away?
I assume you’re referring to me?
I’d describe myself as a secular Jew, not at all “religious” unless in your eyes simply being a Jew makes me “a nutter”.
Until a few years ago I would have described myself as a left winger until I realised that the left had lost its way and betrayed most of what it always stood for. I certainly would not describe myself as ‘conservative’ even now.
Do you have a better suggestion than mine, other than sitting back and watching the mass murder of Jews (again)?
RobbieKeane:
By the way, I did not suggest expulsion of Palestinians
I said:
Israel could announce that it is no longer willing to deal with either the PLO (Fatah) or Hamas and that it is reclaiming all of Jerusalem, Gaza and Judea & Samaria – any Arabs who wish to stay in this “Greater Israel” would be welcome but any participating in any form of terrorism or insurgence would be dealt with according to the law of the land and the laws and customs of war.
Any Arab not happy with that arrangement will be free to leave Israel to go to Lebanon, Syria, Egypt or Jordan.
Is that too nuanced for you?
Actually Allan I find this Extradition Treaty 2003 to be ludicrous. These NatWest bankers are probably as guilty as sin, but the US Senate refusedcto ratify this Treaty so a British Citizen can be extradited to the US without prima facie trial evidence being presented; an American cannot be extradited to the UK without full evidence presented.
It was designed for terrorists but they will not be easily transferred claiming death penalty etc.
The Law Lords refused to hear this Appeal and the ECHR refused too – so the British Govt is using an Agreement which might not even be legal – it has never been tested in the highest courts. This is very strange.
The Us passed RICO years ago to deal with the Mafia – it has only been used against businessmen. This Extradition Treatyy has only been used against businessmen – we have so much anti-terrorist legislation yet it might not even be used against terrorists
RobbieKeane
Just a question………….how do you make agreements with people who blow themselves up ?
How do you trust people when you have unilaterally withdrawn from Gaza and they kidnap a soldier in order to invite you to re-occupy it ?
It is almost as if there are Palestinians who do not want any form of peaceful co-existence but rather perpetual war.
Militants taunt Israel over kidnapped soldier
Militants taunt Israel over kidnapped soldier
Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:48 AM ET
GAZA (Reuters) – Palestinian militants involved in the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier taunted the Jewish state on Thursday by saying the conscript could be dead or alive.
Abu Mujahed, spokesman for the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC), said in a statement that Israel should stop wasting time if it wanted to resolve the crisis over the abduction of Corporal Gilad Shalit.
Israel has said military operations that began with a push into the southern Gaza Strip on Wednesday would go on if Shalit was not freed. There have been no clashes yet with militants.
The spokesman did not say who was holding Shalit after Sunday’s raid by three militant factions an army post near the Gaza border. He set out three scenarios.
“Possibility one: the missing soldier, for one reason or another, is dead and maybe there is a morgue available for his body or maybe there is not,” Abu Mujahed said at a news conference.
“Possibility two is the soldier is still alive but is suffering a serious injury. Medication might be available or might not be available …. Possibility three is that he is fine but that a long time will pass (before he is released).”
Abu Mujahed reiterated earlier demands from militants that Israel free Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails. Israel has rejected the demands.
“Wasting time is not in their interests,” he said.
Nice friends you have RobbieKeane.
Still no reports of “Palestinian” casualties…